Guilt - deep seated painful guilt

[Think About It...]

Been pussy footing round this subject for a few weeks now.

I'm new to this website - been hesitant to write. But need help.

I'm 33 and daughter of an alcoholic mother with BPD (undiagnosed). She is the oldest of 3. Her middle sister was diagnosed with it when she was 9 years old. I should have put two and two together a very long time ago... but y'know, the brain is mighty slow sometimes.

My therapist said to me a few months back that she didn't think i was borderline (even though i was diagnosed back in 2006). I'm a recovering alcoholic - 6yrs sober this July. I've learnt a lot in AA which has probably sorted out lots of "classic" BPD issues. Who knows?

The thing is about a month ago i decided to get a book on daughters of alcoholics. I read about 40 odd pages in and found myself understanding a little of what was being written about... but then i thought, i don't totally identify. When these mothers are sober they're loving, caring, predictable. Only in their drunken state are they vile and unpredictable. My mum could be vile drunk or sober.

I don't know why i didn't think of it earlier... but i got Christine Lawson's book and my fiance warned me about reading too many books. But i took it slowly. It was such an odd feeling. For the 1st time in my life i was reading near enough verbatim instances of abuse that i had endured!

My mum was (and still is) all 4 of the character traits Christine described.

She would flit in and out of them with such impunity - it made me crazy with rage! Her Witch trait was the scariest. She could be so cold, pathological and cutting. Shifting back and fourth. Looking back i can see she had no control on anything. Her emotions ran her, and in the end nearly killed me.

At other times she'd invoke the protector in me against my dad. She'd set fights up and watch me swear and tear into him whilst she eagerly chanted behind me... "go on, that's it, you tell him... tell him" passing her anger and frustration through me.

Now i'm getting to the nuts and bolts of why i am the way i am - and it's becoming clearer to me what i need to do to get well.

Guilt is, and has been for as long as i can remember, a major problem for me. Among other things of course.

I've been reading a lot here but can't find much about deep seated guilt.

I've always felt guilty for being alive. I feel like a burden. I want to be creative but scared of mum looking at me with her disapproving eyes. I see guilt for wanting a career and her being jealous of things i want to do. It stops me from trying. She tried to be a good mum. I know she is/was very sick. It was like she was fighting all the time with herself. I feel guilt for being angry with a sick person. I hate being female. I hate my body. I don't think i deserve happiness (that bit is changing slowly). I have a wonderful fiance. He has been loving and supporting me this last year. It's given me a chance to properly heal.

Do others have excessive guilt thats strangling them? I will be talking to my therapist, she's been poorly. I just wanted to hear other people's thoughts on it. Not what i should do but your experiences. I'd like to hear how other people are doing today.

Many thanks
M78

[m78]

Been pussy footing round this subject for a few weeks now.

I'm new to this website - been hesitant to write. But need help.

I'm 33 and daughter of an alcoholic mother with BPD (undiagnosed). She is the oldest of 3. Her middle sister was diagnosed with it when she was 9 years old. I should have put two and two together a very long time ago... but y'know, the brain is mighty slow sometimes.

My therapist said to me a few months back that she didn't think i was borderline (even though i was diagnosed back in 2006). I'm a recovering alcoholic - 6yrs sober this July. I've learnt a lot in AA which has probably sorted out lots of "classic" BPD issues. Who knows?

The thing is about a month ago i decided to get a book on daughters of alcoholics. I read about 40 odd pages in and found myself understanding a little of what was being written about... but then i thought, i don't totally identify. When these mothers are sober they're loving, caring, predictable. Only in their drunken state are they vile and unpredictable. My mum could be vile drunk or sober.

I don't know why i didn't think of it earlier... but i got Christine Lawson's book and my fiance warned me about reading too many books. But i took it slowly. It was such an odd feeling. For the 1st time in my life i was reading near enough verbatim instances of abuse that i had endured!

My mum was (and still is) all 4 of the character traits Christine described.

She would flit in and out of them with such impunity - it made me crazy with rage! Her Witch trait was the scariest. She could be so cold, pathological and cutting. Shifting back and fourth. Looking back i can see she had no control on anything. Her emotions ran her, and in the end nearly killed me.

At other times she'd invoke the protector in me against my dad. She'd set fights up and watch me swear and tear into him whilst she eagerly chanted behind me... "go on, that's it, you tell him... tell him" passing her anger and frustration through me.

Now i'm getting to the nuts and bolts of why i am the way i am - and it's becoming clearer to me what i need to do to get well.

Guilt is, and has been for as long as i can remember, a major problem for me. Among other things of course.

I've been reading a lot here but can't find much about deep seated guilt.

I've always felt guilty for being alive. I feel like a burden. I want to be creative but scared of mum looking at me with her disapproving eyes. I see guilt for wanting a career and her being jealous of things i want to do. It stops me from trying. She tried to be a good mum. I know she is/was very sick. It was like she was fighting all the time with herself. I feel guilt for being angry with a sick person. I hate being female. I hate my body. I don't think i deserve happiness (that bit is changing slowly). I have a wonderful fiance. He has been loving and supporting me this last year. It's given me a chance to properly heal.

Do others have excessive guilt thats strangling them? I will be talking to my therapist, she's been poorly. I just wanted to hear other people's thoughts on it. Not what i should do but your experiences. I'd like to hear how other people are doing today.

Many thanks
M78

[P.F.Change]

First of all, m78, I'm glad you have a T and that you are comfortable reaching out for support!    Those are both positive steps.

When we have an abusive upbringing, it is very common to feel deep shame. Sometimes we feel guilty just for existing, as if we deserve the horrible treatment that is heaped on us by our parent. We internalize their perception of us and turn the abuse on ourselves. Our inner critic can continue hurling abuse at us even long after our abusers are gone.

But the way your mother treated you is not your fault. You do not have to allow her to have any power over you. You can re-claim your right to live your life and make it happy and full.

This link might be something you were looking for: Toxic shame--what is it and what can we do about it?

And this one is another favorite of mine: Children of BPD Parents: Reclaiming Our Lost Selves. There are many other good ones in the LESSONS tab on the top of the board. This is another good one: Believing in yourself

Hopefully, that will be enough to focus on until you can chat with your T. 

PF

[FinalLee]

I used to feel what I called "guilty" for absolutely everything. I joked that I felt guilty for being the single-handed cause of World War II (I was born in 1957); this was hyperbole, obviously, but pretty much expressed how I felt about almost everything.

After a lot of work trying to grow emotionally and spiritually, I came across a definition of "guilt" that I had never come across before: feeling bad about violating my internal standards.

That's when the whole thing clicked for me. The "internal standard" that I was "violating" was "I want to make my mommy happy and I could do it if only I could be a good girl." Once I realized this, it became blindingly obvious to me that I couldn't make my mother happy. Because not only is one person not responsible for another's happiness, but also because BPDs pretty much refuse to be happy about anything.

It also became blindingly obvious that this was not guilt at all, but rather the shame my mother projected on to us children - whatever happened was always our fault and had nothing to do with her (we alternated Golden Child / Black Sheep most of our lives).

I'm not saying this was an instant cure, but it was definitely a watershed that helped me to start working on my guilt.

I'm glad you have a therapist and good wishes for your journey. 

[borderlyme]

I can totally relate! And since I know how it feels, I'm sorry you have to feel that way - it can be so hard to snap out of! I still go back and forth all the time.

I've always viewed myself as a burden - especially now that I'm so sick and dependent on my parents financially. But the way I see it, every relationship we have is both a burden and a blessing - NO relationship is just nothing but sunshine for us - there's always work and sacrifice in a (decent) relationship, but normally we just don't even consider the "burden" part of being in our relationships because we care about the other person and it's just natural. But my parents have never cared about me or valued me as a person, and they consider all the good things that come out of our relationship as a given (entitlement) and EXCLUSIVELY focus on the ways in which my existing is problematic and inconvenient for them. ...but it's NO different than how their existence is problematic for ME, I just don't point it out - especially with mom's BPD and dad's alcoholism...do THEY feel guilty for how negatively they impact me? Absolutely not! So why should I?

My mom's always had this "well unlike you I didn't get to go to college" thing, even though my college education wasn't a luxury given to me by my parents - I took out loans that they won't pay for. She mocks my career aspirations as unrealistic, or selfish. There's no winning - she's always going to be jealous, because she views the fact that she CHOSE not to put effort into creating a better life for herself, that she CHOSE not to make certain sacrifices for the career she wanted, as her poor fortune and she thinks she's better than me, so she deserves it and I don't.

My creativity has been torn to peices somehow as well - I still don't get why. I used to be such a creative person, before all of the abuse and neglect and insanity really got to me. I think the constant criticism must've lead to a ton of self-doubt? Still working on getting my creativity back, not being terrified to take any risk or any action that isn't perfectly controlled and planned and safe and following the rules.

I think...the most important thing is to find a way to STOP CARING what she thinks, as hard as that is. Meditation helps me with this sometimes - I'll have moments of clarity though I inevitably slip back into the habit of caring what she thinks, wanting to please her. But I have to keep reminding myself that it doesn't matter what she thinks, that she's not actually that important, and that the way she percieves me is not accurate. I'm afraid to be happy, because it's a catch 22 - either I feel guilty because she was never happy (because she's instilled in me that I don't deserve the happiness that she doesn't have - since she believes erroneously that happiness is given and not earned) or I feel guilty being a burden on her by being unhappy. It's easy to get sucked into the "lose-lose" mentality...but when I sort of reframe it and remind myself that what she thinks about me doesn't define me or mean anything at all, it makes life seem more like a win-win.

[m78]

Hi everyone, I will respond in more detail later. I just wanted to say thank you for your kindness, sharing yourself and your experiences. The thing that's speaking loud and clear is the exact definition of what the real word is for what I've always felt... SHAME! I read the topic on it and will read more. I'm seeing my T tomorrow, thank goodness! She's been sick for 4 weeks. Been a bit tough. But have lots of good stuff to discuss.

I'll respond to each post tonight. Hope everyone is having an ok day

M78