Antisocial or BPD?

[Think About It...]

The topic of what to do with gifts from the ex w BPD just came up on another part of this board, but I've decided to introduce a related question as a new topic

What kind of gifts were given to you by the pwBPD during the relationship? And what kinds of things did he or she put in writing?

In my own case, I'm realizing that everything my exBPD bf ever gave me was of a nonpersonal nature other than when we would visit a bulk-sale outlet type of store and he would encourage me to pick out a few things for myself and put them on his credit card. Aside from that, his gifts were always of a practical nature: improvements around the house, electrical or computer gadgets, etc.

Even the cards he gave me on holidays were of a generic nature, and they are a complete contradiction to his verbal declarations of enduring love, his eagerness to get married from the very first day he was with me (glad I didn't!), and his enthusiasm about spending every possible moment with me. When I look back, I see that he never put anything truly revealing in written form to me. I have also kept all the email he ever sent me and reviewed it and not a single one contains an I Love You or other intimate message.

Moreover, when he abruptly departed many months ago, he took with him the personal diary, several inches thick, that I had kept of our early times together. He later told me he had destroyed it (threw it in a garbage dumpster, he said) because it constituted "evidence" he didn't want the old GF, who is now his partner again, to ever see.

To me all of this suggests a certain amount of very cold and calculated planning that is not very typical of BPD, so this retrospective on gifts, cards, and written communications from him  has me quite puzzled. Anyone have a similar story?

And for those of you who have some in-depth knowledge of personality disorders, does this sound more like sociopathic or antisocial personality disorder than BPD?

[MarshaDole]

The topic of what to do with gifts from the ex w BPD just came up on another part of this board, but I've decided to introduce a related question as a new topic

What kind of gifts were given to you by the pwBPD during the relationship? And what kinds of things did he or she put in writing?

In my own case, I'm realizing that everything my exBPD bf ever gave me was of a nonpersonal nature other than when we would visit a bulk-sale outlet type of store and he would encourage me to pick out a few things for myself and put them on his credit card. Aside from that, his gifts were always of a practical nature: improvements around the house, electrical or computer gadgets, etc.

Even the cards he gave me on holidays were of a generic nature, and they are a complete contradiction to his verbal declarations of enduring love, his eagerness to get married from the very first day he was with me (glad I didn't!), and his enthusiasm about spending every possible moment with me. When I look back, I see that he never put anything truly revealing in written form to me. I have also kept all the email he ever sent me and reviewed it and not a single one contains an I Love You or other intimate message.

Moreover, when he abruptly departed many months ago, he took with him the personal diary, several inches thick, that I had kept of our early times together. He later told me he had destroyed it (threw it in a garbage dumpster, he said) because it constituted "evidence" he didn't want the old GF, who is now his partner again, to ever see.

To me all of this suggests a certain amount of very cold and calculated planning that is not very typical of BPD, so this retrospective on gifts, cards, and written communications from him  has me quite puzzled. Anyone have a similar story?

And for those of you who have some in-depth knowledge of personality disorders, does this sound more like sociopathic or antisocial personality disorder than BPD?

[jessicapuppy]

Hi there MarshaDole   Hi!

My ex is BPD and NPD.

Occasionally he bought me a piece of jewellery, although not of significant value.  Mostly he bought me practical gifts.

My ex would always state his love in every correspondence.  He would get very insecure if I did not immediately reciprocate it. 

The taking of the diary seems like the need for Object Constancy.  I doubt he destroyed it.  It is common for people with BPD to keep belongings of their exes.

JP
x

[aurora.dragon]

!

I got a very nice GPS for x-mas.  He was always getting lost in my town so he put one in my car so when he drove it he would know where he was going.  I got a very fancy remote control for my TV/DVD/Audio system as he hated the 4 remote system I had.  He bought me flash lights, clothes steamers, drain uncloggers, cellphone covers...actually he bought me bubble bath and moisturizers - maybe so I would be smelling good for him though - !.

He gave me a beautiful valentines day card - thanking me for putting up with him and for being such an extraordinary woman...and then he blacked me out a week later!

So, the gifts benefitted him...but he was so generous - always buying me everything when we were together and taking me out for really nice dinners.  And, I have way more money than he does - but he never let me pay.

I know one time when he really baited me and I got mad - I paid for the bill at dinner - to get him back for hurting my feeling and pushing my buttons.  I then got in the car and drove away - kissed him first.  Oh, I was so upset with him.  I emailed him when I got home saying I needed space, but still loved him and we would work it out tomorrow - me taking the blame, but he did set me up.  He blacked me out shortly after...

[MarshaDole]

Jessicapuppy and Aurora, thanks so much for your answers. I guess people with BPD don't fit into any particular characteristics where gifts are concerned. The thought my exBF may still have that diary gives me the willies because if anything should ever happen to him, there's no telling who might read it, and there's some very, very intimate stuff in there. There's also a lot of stuff that could very much incriminate him with the previous GF he went back to, since he told her he lived on his own in other town during the time he was actually with me. I doubt she would have taken him back had she known he was with another woman. But who knows...

At any rate, I'm glad to have your input and realize each of our cases sounds different where gifts are concerned. We all have a person with BPD in common, though, and that's more than enough. :-)

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[FriedaB]

My  gifts  were  shoplifted  from  Kmart. 

[victim15]

Initially he used to leave gifts on my doorstep, bottles of expensive wine,chocolate that sort of thing, this was during the courting stage. He would pay for things for me then wouldn't let me pay him back no matter how much I insisted.
He bought me beautiful, unusual flowers one day with a card saying he loved me, then the next went silent on me, this was prior to the relationship ending for the second time. He instigated getting back together.

 I still have over 12 months worth of text messages on my phone, where he professed his undying love, saying he loved me more than life itself one day and disengaging the next. Again a break up..
 
Since getting back together yet again I had lovely thoughtful Christmas presents and he ordered the same flowers specially, the card had loving words written in it.

However since our last getting back together he has never once sent me a text saying he loves me, he always put lots and lots of kisses, then when he was angry none.

I finished the relationship recently as he has a girlfriend,(see previous post) He text me since no kisses ha ha. Funny thing is if I put 20 kisses he would put 20, if i put 3 he would put 3 etc etc, just shows the immaturity of their thinking.

So seems there is no actual rule of thumb in their minds for gift giving or writing about love.

I do think they worry how writing anything down may inflict on other relationships, he said he had told his GF about us, then rang me and said he only told her we were friends, he then said what if she asks to see your phone? I said I wouldn't let her, but I think he wanted me to either say I would delete all his messages or he wanted confirmation I still had them as this would make him feel we were still connected.

No knowing how they think at times...

[jessicapuppy]

Hi there

I'm not so sure that there is so much difference between the gifts we've received from our BPD partners.  There seems to be a Gadget theme going on.  Everyone knows that men like gadgets, and so I think there is a degree of the BPD partner buying for himself.  As BPD partners have a lack of empathy, I can see how this could happen.  They're only able to relate to what they would consider a gift, and not us.  
Yes, both myself, Victim 15 and Aurora can talk about being wooed with words in gift cards and texts, but isn't that just them over-expressing their own emotions, during the times when they are idealising us?
The only wine I ever received was during our 'honeymoon' period...and he likes wine!
I never got flowers, yet ever anniversary of his dog's death (who'd been dead 15 years at that point!) he would put a bunch of red roses on its grave!  I felt so special!

Frieda B - I did smile a little at that     These people really know how to treat a lady!  

Victim15 - I had that same thing going on with having to match the number of kisses in a text etc.  there would be serious huffs if I didn't match his!

[FriedaB]

Antisocial  behavior=  criminal  activity,  arson,  cruelty  to  animals,  con  artist,  stealing- off  family,  friends  and  relative's  corpses...the  behavior  you  describe  Marsha  sounds  BPD.   

[FriedaB]

Congrats  on  making  Ambassador,  Jessica!  I  love  reading  your  posts...you've  really  helped  a  lot  of  new  members  to  feel  welcome!

[lurchlookalike]

MD,

These personality disorders overlap and do have a lot in common. I see it as a sliding scale with BPD being at the "minor" (relatively speaking) end and APD being the most "severe". There has been talk of combining NPD with APD in new DSM classification criteria.

The difference as I see it is that with BPD and NPD the individual is consciously hurting, but not so with APD. There are lots of similarities between these people like callousness, parasitic lifestyle, verbally sadistic, manipulative, poor executive function, although an APD seems to keep this cloaked in a more deceptive exterior most of the time.

I don't think the "gift giving" profile is all that telling, in fact an NPD might give no gifts at all, rather expecting them coming one way only with no reciprocation. You asked a good question though, and the individuals affected don't always clearly fit into a single category, often having some attributes of all 3.

[rooftop]

Same story here- mainly emails that "you are the most amazing man and that i am truly blessed to have you in my humble world"  and an interesting Valentine card and gift..a Money Box with Paris in glitter written on iy and love heart sparly stickons all over it.. The card was a Paris card Valentines Day with he Eiffel Tower on the front with One I Love. Inside she wrote ":

"Dear David - iI saw tthis card and inspired the present..Heres to your Paris Kitty Tin..Hopefully one day you will get to enjoy Paris and all its splendour with a woman you truly love & understand!. Happy V Day Gorgeous One..Narelle xxx

She dumped me out of her life the next day kicking me out of her house in a rage..I found out she reconnected with a guy 4 days before Valentines Day and I believe the card was her way of saying..I have someone else and hope ou find someone that you truly understand...She always felt I did not understand her, yet i did.  I just wouldnt participate in her alienation of me, her huliliation and belittling...She is a NPD/BPD i now realise that no man will be able to satisfy her unbelievable attention seeking, desire for perfection and lack of self worth, yet she is a successful woman.

[jessicapuppy]

Congrats  on  making  Ambassador,  Jessica!  I  love  reading  your  posts...you've  really  helped  a  lot  of  new  members  to  feel  welcome!

Aw, thank you Frieda!  What a lovely thing to read this afternoon, on this miserable, grey day!  

Anything I write on here is just my way of trying to bring comfort and insight to anyone who has felt as low as I have over the last few months (and years, during the relationship, if I'm honest!).  I was left practically suicidle, and wouldn't have wished that feeling on my worst enemy, and she was my best friend of 20 years who stole my partner before last!  

I would have continued to give as much help as I could, without being made an ambassador, but to be asked to fill such a role, and to know that people actually listen to anything I say, is a HUGE compliment.  I spend a lot of time ill in bed, and sometimes feel that I don't count or contribute to society, so to know I can make a small difference, even from here, in bed, is a real boost  

I am also not past the point (I don't think anyone ever is) of sometimes needing to seek comfort and support from the other members of this site.  I am also very grateful to everyone who has ever listened to me, and offered me support  

Good grief!  That was like an Oscars speech!

Anyway...back to topic...not wanting to hijack Marshadole's post  Hi!

[MarshaDole]

Yes, I see a lot of overlap in my exBPD bf.  I once overheard him say, "I don't know if I have a conscience." If not, that would be a significant degree of AS along with the BPD, and both my T and I also see a lot of narcissism involved. So I do see where these three conditions can mix and match and overlap, with the BPD predominant in my exBF but some NPD and ASD involved as well.
In some ways the degree of each doesn't really even matter, since all three are undesireable in a partner and somewhere between difficult and impossible to overcome.

To me the cruelest part of BPD is the very convincing semblance of sincerity and devotion in the beginning. In fact, I'm coming to realize that it probably WAS sincere on this part for that brief period. He simply couldn't sustain it.

The biggest challenge I face right now is overcoming my resistance toward even being open to another relationship and the risk of being hurt again. I've learned that my mother was most likely BPD/NPD and that I have been conditioned since childhood to soothe and fix in relationships rather than have a mutual, healthy exchange of caring and sharing. Well into my adult life, I will need to learn how to build a truly healthy relationship from scratch...either that, or remain alone. And in a lot of ways, I admit it's getting easier to be alone...calm and peaceful with no more crisises or ongoing drama.

Thanks for all of your response, and for being there for me. Hugs, Marsha

[Special thanks to our sponsors!]

Special thanks to our sponsors! Keeping us on the air in 2013 Pay it forward Here
	123Phoebe 1989 1bravegirl 20years 23tesla 5keepers Alastor alf aluminumRob Amber3 ambi AmericanTemplar an0ught Arecibo armsreach Arthur artman.1 At_Bay Auspicious aussie mumma Aussieman babyducks Bananas bb12 beachgirl009 BeenReplaced BeenThereB4 BehindTheWall Being Mindful Belka berry Blazing Star BlueTiffany BradyK briefcase cal644 CalledaPerson Cannon captain4464 cbas cfh charred chayka Chosen Cici cindyr cleotokos Cmjo CodependentHusband ComoLu ComplexOpus Conundrum coworkerfriend Cumulus dauada David Dare daze deelee950 dharmagems Dire Wolf dusk eac elessar eniale Exonerated eyvindr faithfull fakename findingmyselfagain Firequelcher flatspin Forgetmenot Free One freshlySane fromheeltoheal Gbirdmom GeekyGirl goldylamont goodguy gottafixit Grammy17201 griz GustheDog Healing4Ever heartandwhole Her Mother heronbird heyhey hijodeganas hithere hopeforhealing How do I do This? HowPredictable Hunter56 Hurt llama Hurtbad Inspirationneeded isshebpd Jai Yen jalbright jaleo2000 jargon337 jb1 jessienbp JetsFan joanlee johnnyonthespot jordana418 Joseph54 just me. Kate4queen keepwalking keldubs78 kellygirl601 Kelsie Kewahkah kimberlysc knowing laelle lbjnltx Leaf livefreebpdfamily loved_her? LoveNotWar LP luckyduck LuckyEscapee LuvMontana Major_Dad mamachelle MammaMia mango_flower maria1 maryy16 meditator Memorial Donation (11) mggt michaelwriting midori0 Mightyhammers Millie12 MomsBestFriendNoMore Moorpark Mountaineagle mp2? Mr Mom... mymiracles MySanctuary Nelson1962 newlyhopeful nomoredrama71 nonhere NorthernGirl nothinleft NotTheMama NYCgirl NY-LON Odysseus. Oldsoldier2411 OnceConfused ontherox opheliasmom Orange patientandclear Patty peaceplease peppie Phoenix.Rising pinkpeony PrettyPlease Pugman Rapt Reader really refuge rethinking RiseUp rj47 Robhart rockman Rocky777 Rockylove rogerroger rollercoaster24 Rose1 Sabine saddle_tramp SadWifeofBPD SailMonkey salvia Sancho scallops Scarlet Phoenix schwing scraps66 screechowl seahorse Seb sfgirl skinny13 somuchlove southernsis splitinga still around strangerinparadise StrongEnough struggli stupafly Sullyone Surnia susanleona swampped T. Moore tailspin Take2 Tess Russell Thursday TigerEye Tippy toliveistofly Tracy62 Triptoes tryingtohelp tuum est61 twojaybirds upsidedown VeryScared vfsdan Vindi vivekananda waitaminute WalrusGumboot Want2know watersedge waverider wee_one whatshappening whiletheseasonspass whirlpoollife whitemouse Wimowe winston72 wishingwell17 withBPD WorkingOnIt worn_out WrongWoman wuzdownandgetnbetter yamada yeeter
	If you made a donation and your name does not appear on this list or here , please contact us so that we can confirm that the payment was properly credited to BPDFamily.
	Pay it forward Here