New to this and very confused

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I am so confused and I hope somebody can help me.

At my urging, my husband is seeing a therapist - her credentials - MSW, LICSW, CSW-G.
He's seen her twice and I've seen her once. My big issue with my husband is his lying and what I perceive to be facebook flirting with women he had gone to school with (a long time ago). He comes from an abusive background, father was an alcoholic. His mother died when he was 9, and he is a Vietnam vet. I must tell you, I love him and he has only once in nearly 23 years of marriage yelled at me, never hit me, non drinker, no drugs, holds down a steady job, great provider.

After his last (second) counseling session I just so happened to call his cell phone. He broke down crying and told me how ashamed he is of himself and how he has hurt me. He indicated that he wanted to jump off a bridge. I got him calmed down and he came home and things were fine.

I told him that I felt that I needed to let his counselor know about his thoughts of suicide, and he agreed. I emailed her and she wrote back telling him that suicide will be more painful to his loved ones than any lie. He also responded to her with a positive attitude.

Here's where it gets confusing.

When I saw his counselor, I felt that she alluded to the fact that he might have BPD. She said something  about BPD and then qualified it with, "I'm not saying he has BPD." She suggested two books, 'How to stop walking on eggshells' and 'Dance of Intimacy'.

She also suggested that I get my own therapist (what for, I have no clue) and that my husband and I see a marriage counselor.

We talked about suicide and I felt that she blew it off, telling me that people who make threats like he did don't just do it on the spur of the moment. I totally disagreed with her and gave her an example of a former neighbor who 'I' felt had committed suicide as an act of revenge to her boyfriend. My husband's counselor asked me how old the girl was and I told her that she was in her 20s. But to me, I still feel that a lot of people who commit suicide do it on the spur of the moment. And, what I've read, people with BPD - 10% of them will do it. I don't want my husband to be in that 10%, and I am terrified.

My husband and I have 2 homes, he lives in one and I'm in the other. We see each other regularly and I told his counselor that we are considering living in one home and renting the other. She advised me to "Give it 6 months to a year."

I am having all kinds of emotions, from anger, to sadness, to fear (for him). I am so scared that the fact of his bringing up all of these pent up memories and emotions is going to put him over the edge. I feel that I have pushed him to open Pandora's Box.

My question: Do you have any idea why the counselor has suggested the books and why she has suggested individual counseling? As my daughter said, "If you go to your own counselor, what are you going to go on? You don't know what he is saying to his counselor." And, she is right.

Thanks for reading this novel and I look forward to your comments, questions and/or suggestions.

[MadiCee1]

I am so confused and I hope somebody can help me.

At my urging, my husband is seeing a therapist - her credentials - MSW, LICSW, CSW-G.
He's seen her twice and I've seen her once. My big issue with my husband is his lying and what I perceive to be facebook flirting with women he had gone to school with (a long time ago). He comes from an abusive background, father was an alcoholic. His mother died when he was 9, and he is a Vietnam vet. I must tell you, I love him and he has only once in nearly 23 years of marriage yelled at me, never hit me, non drinker, no drugs, holds down a steady job, great provider.

After his last (second) counseling session I just so happened to call his cell phone. He broke down crying and told me how ashamed he is of himself and how he has hurt me. He indicated that he wanted to jump off a bridge. I got him calmed down and he came home and things were fine.

I told him that I felt that I needed to let his counselor know about his thoughts of suicide, and he agreed. I emailed her and she wrote back telling him that suicide will be more painful to his loved ones than any lie. He also responded to her with a positive attitude.

Here's where it gets confusing.

When I saw his counselor, I felt that she alluded to the fact that he might have BPD. She said something  about BPD and then qualified it with, "I'm not saying he has BPD." She suggested two books, 'How to stop walking on eggshells' and 'Dance of Intimacy'.

She also suggested that I get my own therapist (what for, I have no clue) and that my husband and I see a marriage counselor.

We talked about suicide and I felt that she blew it off, telling me that people who make threats like he did don't just do it on the spur of the moment. I totally disagreed with her and gave her an example of a former neighbor who 'I' felt had committed suicide as an act of revenge to her boyfriend. My husband's counselor asked me how old the girl was and I told her that she was in her 20s. But to me, I still feel that a lot of people who commit suicide do it on the spur of the moment. And, what I've read, people with BPD - 10% of them will do it. I don't want my husband to be in that 10%, and I am terrified.

My husband and I have 2 homes, he lives in one and I'm in the other. We see each other regularly and I told his counselor that we are considering living in one home and renting the other. She advised me to "Give it 6 months to a year."

I am having all kinds of emotions, from anger, to sadness, to fear (for him). I am so scared that the fact of his bringing up all of these pent up memories and emotions is going to put him over the edge. I feel that I have pushed him to open Pandora's Box.

My question: Do you have any idea why the counselor has suggested the books and why she has suggested individual counseling? As my daughter said, "If you go to your own counselor, what are you going to go on? You don't know what he is saying to his counselor." And, she is right.

Thanks for reading this novel and I look forward to your comments, questions and/or suggestions.

[MadiCee1]

3 red flags from this so-called 'counselor' and I just spoke to my husband about it. He doesn't care for her either. Good! Tells me a lot when the woman tells me she is with a man who has been married 3 times and he doesn't want to get married again. I think she is working on trying to get him to change his mind. I also think she is a little fearful of me because I'm not stupid. I told her that I really enjoy trying to figure people out. I think she took that as a threat...as if she and other 'professionals' are the only ones who have an ounce of brains. I asked my husband, "Did she ever asked you how you were feeling?" and he told me, "No." Hmmmm...another red flag. By his third meeting with her, after a total of approx. 5 hours, he was ready to commit suicide. Another red flag and now we are up to 5. Also, when he had written an email reply to her discussing his thoughts of suicide this woman never acknowledged him. F her! Red flag number 6 

I know I can take care of him with the help of our family physician, time, patience and a lot of love. I can deal with any stupid lies. I love him too much to stress about, and possibly lose him to suicide.

My advice to you: Get in to see your loved one's counselor, therapist, whatever, as early into the treatment as possible. You need to see and decide for yourself if this person knows what they are doing. I wish all of you the best. Good luck to you and take care.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[Gowest]

I asked my husband, "Did she ever asked you how you were feeling?" and he told me, "No." ...

My big issue with my husband is his lying

You might want to reconsider your assessment of the therapist if you're basing it in large part on what your husband is telling you.

[MadiCee1]

Gowest,

Thank you for your reply, it's really appreciated. Actually, I'm basing my assessment on the therapist in large part to my 1 hour and 15 minute session with her. During that time she never wrote one thing down on her paper that was sitting on the arm of her chair.

She didn't even ask me how my husband was doing since his last appointment with her, and that spoke volumes to me.

I don't think a person (patient) should be so upset after a counseling session that they are near suicide, or at least having suicidal thoughts. I've decided that if he ever goes to counseling again, I will be with him. At the very least, if I'm not in the therapist's office with him, I'll be in the waiting room.

[LoveBlueonnets]

It is not uncommon to feel worse after counseling sessions.  During that time, sensitive subjects are being addressed.  Things are being brought to the surface that have to be dealt with.  Sometimes these are deep wounds, and proper work wasn't done that has to be done now.  It makes the wounds fresh again and it brings the pain and sadness to the forefront.  In order to heal those wounds though, they have to be explored.

I think you might be a little premature in your assessment of her.  Counseling, introspection, dealing with wounds, etc is all very hard at times.  Having said that though, some counselors are a better fit for individuals than others.  I do feel that your husband should find a counselor that he feels comfortable talking with, but to have the expectation that he's going to feel good after each session is unrealistic.

This is his counselor though and it should be his choice.  This is just my personal opinion, but it might hinder his progress if you insist on being in the sessions with him.  He should be able to speak freely in counseling, and he may not do that right now if you're listening to everything that's said.

I don't disagree with her assessment that you should see your own counselor as well.  Living with someone that is disordered leaves us with our own problems.  We are often co-dependent and we've become used to "being the adult" in the relationship, thereby taking on much more responsibility than we should.  Plus, there's a reason why you suggested counseling for him in the first place.  To me that says that there were things going on that were affecting you in a negative way.  Those things should be dealt with as well.  It wouldn't hurt to try it and see what you can gain.

[MadiCee1]

Thank you for your reply, LoveBlueonnets. We are both going forward in a positive & united manner. Our first step is to see his (our) family physician to discuss a few things including what her take is on this particular counselor, and my husband's feeling of suicide when he left her office.

If my husband wants to continue seeing this therapist, he is entitled to that. But, as I said, knowing how fragile he can be, I will never let him go to counseling alone. I will indeed sit in the waiting room and I will also participate in any counseling his therapist wants me to join in with them.

I don't mind that he is in counseling, it's what comes after the counseling, that black hole. I understand that it's not uncommon to feel worse after counseling sessions but when a person is suicidal, that is not a good sign. Maybe they are going forward too fast, I don't know.

And, as far as being co-dependent, I could be, but, that's not a bad place for me at all. I've got it very, very good, maybe too good. I enjoy my life, and I very much enjoy helping others. My husband has yelled at me one time in all the 23+ years we've been married. He's never hit me or threatened me. He's not an alcoholic, doesn't even drink, no drugs, non smoker. Hard working man who has a few faults, but, so do I. It's just that he had a rough childhood and I understand why he is the way he is. I'm fortunate to have had a wonderful childhood and I have a lot of empathy for those who have suffered greatly at the hands of others.

As far as seeing my own counselor, I'm going to do that, too. His name is God.

I wish all of you happiness, peace, and love. That's what we all deserve in life.

[seeking balance]

Hi &  ,

The counselor gave you very good advice.

First, go get the suggested books - whether or not your H is diagnosed does not actually matter as much as the behaviors seem consistent with BPD.  It will know hurt you to have these tools in your toolbelt.  Might I also suggest - High Conflict Couples - it does not mention BPD, but utilizes a dbt approach to marriage counceling.

Second, you do need a therapist of your own.  The way to repair this marriage will take both of you working thru your own issues.  You might not know it yet, but there will be huge bouts of anger that are going to surface - you do want a safe place to work through those emotions so that you do not make matters in your marriage worse.

Third, you seem like you want to be in this marriage for now at least.  I suggest posting on the staying board an really doing workshops and lessons over there.  The communication & boundary tools are fantastic and they can help you no matter what direction you take.

Regarding the suicide statistics and BPD - it is 10% that succeed with it, not 10% that attempt it.

Overall, I would imagine you are spinning with the information you have received - there is no need to rush anything - give yourself some time to learn about BPD.  Whether or not your H has it, the tools here are great interpersonal tools.

Peace,
SB

[Sade]

Hi,

I've not posted on here for months (came back here today due to some 'setbacks') and this post caught my eye.

I too spoke to my husband's therapist while we were together. It was the therapist who dropped hints about personality disorders which eventually brought me here.  The therapist also suggested I got counselling myself. 

Maybe you feel, right now, that your husband's therapist is implying there is something wrong with YOU?  I don't think that is the case. Being involved with a person with BPD is very stressful. I think that is why the therapist has suggested counselling for you, to help you cope. I have now been out of the relationship with my BPD ex for just short of two years and when I look back to how I was at the end; boy, did I need help. I was a nervous wreck, constantly anxious, suffering from all kinds of stress related ailments, losing a sense of self and on the verge of a complete breakdown. THAT'S why my husband's therapist suggested I got counselling. Therapists KNOW what living with a personality disordered individual does to the 'nons'. Although I knew at the time I was falling apart, only now, almost 2 years later, do I realise how much.

Don't take this the wrong way, please, but I don't think it's appropriate for you to accompany your husband to his sessions.  Like most people with PDs, the roots of his disorder are in your husbands childhood. You weren't around then. He needs to be able to work through these issues, which are NOTHING to do with you. Your husband also needs to be able to discuss his feelings about you openly which he can't do if you are there. Whilst you may think this is unfair try and see it this way; if your husband never discusses his feelings about you with his therapist how will his therapist find out he 'splits' you?  Once the therapist sees that your husband's perception of you is often 'off' she can start to do something to challenge that.

Don't assume your husbands therapist believes what he tells her about you. Therapists deal with 'splitting' and projection every single working day.