How do I get my H into T?

[Think About It...]

A question for those of you with successes.  It is not considered kosher to bring up personality disorders, and I have no intention of doing it with H who can not admit to having any problems.  How do you get them to the appropriate therapy without telling them that they are abusive, etc?  Is my only option to work on myself and to hope that he will someday be willing to go back to therapy? 

[nowheretogo]

A question for those of you with successes.  It is not considered kosher to bring up personality disorders, and I have no intention of doing it with H who can not admit to having any problems.  How do you get them to the appropriate therapy without telling them that they are abusive, etc?  Is my only option to work on myself and to hope that he will someday be willing to go back to therapy? 

[united for now]

We can't "make" someone address something they don't believe is a problem.
Someone who struggles with handling their emotions will go to therapy when they believe they need to.

"we" are part of the problem.
~ Our responses feed the fire and keep the arguments going.
~ Our behavior maintains the status quo of who's in control.
~ Our beliefs that "it's all their fault" doesn't create any change.

There is no hope for things to change unless "we" work on changing what we control - ourselves...and yes, we hope that they will get into therapy to work on themselves. Our goals can't be to create change in them - our goals have to be to create change in ourselves 

[Steph]

We can't "make" someone address something they don't believe is a problem.
Someone who struggles with handling their emotions will go to therapy when they believe they need to.

"we" are part of the problem.
~ Our responses feed the fire and keep the arguments going.
~ Our behavior maintains the status quo of who's in control.
~ Our beliefs that "it's all their fault" doesn't create any change.

There is no hope for things to change unless "we" work on changing what we control - ourselves...and yes, we hope that they will get into therapy to work on themselves. Our goals can't be to create change in them - our goals have to be to create change in ourselves 

 Exactly.

Sometimes, when we stop our part and we stop feeling into the dysfunction, there can be times when things dont feel the same. Our partners can begin to feel the pain themselves, then, because we are leaving it with them.

 In your case, alcoholism could well be in play. It may not be BPD at all.

 Getting yourself into Alanon will help tremendously. This, again, isnt about fixing him, but learning boundaries and healthy ways of managing for ourselves. Once again, please do consider it. You dont have to pay a penny. There is literature there, and people who will understand both of you. Those of us who have gone find the skills learned there work quite well here, too.

Steph

[catnap]

Those of us who have gone find the skills learned there work quite well here, too.

I and my husband attended Alnon for parents when our oldest son was dealing with addiction to drugs and alcohol.  I am happy to say he is almost 10 years sober and doing great. . .the HUGE change came when we stopped enabling and he had to deal directly with the consequences of his addiction.

Dealing with BPD came when our youngest son became involved and had a child with his exgf.  I personally can see where Alnon is helpful with BPD also, it is about letting that person stop piling their issues on your back by changing the dysfunctional dance. 

[Steph]

Those of us who have gone find the skills learned there work quite well here, too.

I and my husband attended Alnon for parents when our oldest son was dealing with addiction to drugs and alcohol.  I am happy to say he is almost 10 years sober and doing great. . .the HUGE change came when we stopped enabling and he had to deal directly with the consequences of his addiction.

Dealing with BPD came when our youngest son became involved and had a child with his exgf.  I personally can see where Alnon is helpful with BPD also, it is about letting that person stop piling their issues on your back by changing the dysfunctional dance. 

I agree completely!

Its been a lifesaver in my life, as well, in other relationships, including my daughter, and others, and I treasure those tables!

Steph

[JustSaying]

X had a problem with alcohol. She also had...has...a grab bag of psychological problems. I didn't know what was how much of a problem in what measure. Some combination of T and Al Anon helped me wrap my head around my position on this, and I gave her a "stop the drinking or else" ultimatum. [That's not the take-away here...gotta keep reading...this is just the setup for my point. ] To her credit, X largely stopped drinking, and what I discovered was the grab bag of psychological problems was still there and that was a real issue that made our life as a family untenable.

My point (and I really do have one) is that there are layers of dysfunctional behaviors and we can get all confused in them and not know how to make sense of one versus another. But sometimes there are ways to remove some of the layers from this mishigas and see what lies within.

Even more important than the alcohol was first examining my own contribution(s) to the dysfunctional dance, and that's where I was trying to lead you. Until I could take a clear look at my own behaviors, and clean up my act, and be the person I hoped to be, how could I begin to know what X was really like, because for all I knew I was contaminating the results (kinda like someone shaking the table as one of your techs is taking the X-ray...you gonna get a good read on that film?).

When I first saw T, my question was, "How am I contributing to these things that are happening, and what can I do to change that?" And with what I learned, I got better at not reacting defensively, at not invalidating, at not fanning the flames to make the fire worse, and some other stuff. And mostly, I learned to stop comparing my progress on self-improvement with X's behavior. I did what was right for me and only then did I look at the other elements of the family dynamic. It was only then, with clear conscience, that I saw how X treated D even when I removed myself as a factor.

You won't know what H is really like within the family dynamic until you remove your own triggers and dysfunctional responses. Until you can let go of anger, until you can let go of the "why should I dress quietly if he won't", until you can let go of the need to make snarky comments back to him...until you let go of all that and whatever else vexes you, you won't have any real idea of what's a problem and what isn't. You should work to let go of that stuff because it's the only way to get to the real truth of your family life and because it's the right thing to do.

Once you've done that, maybe you'll find surprises at how the kids respond or how h responds. Or maybe nothing he does will be different. But you won't know until you take care of your business first.

[united for now]

Good explanation justSaying 

[LoveNotWar]

I am so fortunate because my pwBPD decided to choose therapy but I knew I could not mandate that.

I had decided two things prior to his work w/T. One was that I was going to work on my part in our mess and I found a T. The second was I had to leave our home to be safe. I was hoping for a therapeutic separation but I wasn't counting on him to cooperate. What he decided to do was out of my control.

That's how our therapeutic separation began. He IS cooperating and his T is awesome and really guiding us as we repair the damage  to our r/s and move forward in a healthier place.

I know if I would have made his working w/a T some kind of condition to our r/s he would have pushed back and we wouldn't be where we are now. I took a gamble by backing off but not really because I was ready for him to reject me completely and was prepared to live with that.

[Steph]

X had a problem with alcohol. She also had...has...a grab bag of psychological problems. I didn't know what was how much of a problem in what measure. Some combination of T and Al Anon helped me wrap my head around my position on this, and I gave her a "stop the drinking or else" ultimatum. [That's not the take-away here...gotta keep reading...this is just the setup for my point. ] To her credit, X largely stopped drinking, and what I discovered was the grab bag of psychological problems was still there and that was a real issue that made our life as a family untenable.

My point (and I really do have one) is that there are layers of dysfunctional behaviors and we can get all confused in them and not know how to make sense of one versus another. But sometimes there are ways to remove some of the layers from this mishigas and see what lies within.

Even more important than the alcohol was first examining my own contribution(s) to the dysfunctional dance, and that's where I was trying to lead you. Until I could take a clear look at my own behaviors, and clean up my act, and be the person I hoped to be, how could I begin to know what X was really like, because for all I knew I was contaminating the results (kinda like someone shaking the table as one of your techs is taking the X-ray...you gonna get a good read on that film?).

When I first saw T, my question was, "How am I contributing to these things that are happening, and what can I do to change that?" And with what I learned, I got better at not reacting defensively, at not invalidating, at not fanning the flames to make the fire worse, and some other stuff. And mostly, I learned to stop comparing my progress on self-improvement with X's behavior. I did what was right for me and only then did I look at the other elements of the family dynamic. It was only then, with clear conscience, that I saw how X treated D even when I removed myself as a factor.

You won't know what H is really like within the family dynamic until you remove your own triggers and dysfunctional responses. Until you can let go of anger, until you can let go of the "why should I dress quietly if he won't", until you can let go of the need to make snarky comments back to him...until you let go of all that and whatever else vexes you, you won't have any real idea of what's a problem and what isn't. You should work to let go of that stuff because it's the only way to get to the real truth of your family life and because it's the right thing to do.

Once you've done that, maybe you'll find surprises at how the kids respond or how h responds. Or maybe nothing he does will be different. But you won't know until you take care of your business first.

  Even in AA, we know that stopping the drinking is only the very first step to being whole again...and that onion has many layers!

Justsaying said it very, very well!

Steph

[Auspicious]

I strongly recommend the book I Am Not Sick, I Don't Need Help by Xavier Amador. It helped me a lot.