Sex with new partner post-BPD

[Think About It...]

I am sure that this is a topic that has been brought up before here, but as it something that is weighing quite heavily on my mind at the moment and something that I find it really hard speaking with friends who have not dealt with the intensity of pwBPD relationships about, I would be very appreciative of any advice. 

Very short summary: I have been out of my relationship with exBPD for over two years and I honestly feel great. I am NC with exBPD, have been working A LOT with FOO issues and my core wounds and feel that I have emerged a stronger and happier person than I ever was before. Yes, it was a hellish ride, but it was definitely worth it.

Some months ago I started dated again for the first time since exBPD - it has been extremely important for me not to rush into a new relationship, but to spend the time needed to deal with my own issues first. I have now come to the point where I actually FEEL ready to be with someone new - I have met an extremely nice, sensitive and kind woman that I really enjoy being with. None of that over-the-top "you're my soul mate"-BPD stuff, but slow, reciprocated and honest exchange of affection, love and care.

My sole problem is sex...every time we have sex, I get very strong flashbacks about having sex with my exBPD and after I have those, I simply can't stand to be touched sexually by my new girlfriend. It's as if it is a completely automatic reaction beyond my control. (Sorry, if I am being graphic here, but I trust you understand my need to explain.) She's doing absolutely nothing wrong and I really hate for it to be this way.

Have any of you had similar experiences and how did you deal with it?

[Sofie]

I am sure that this is a topic that has been brought up before here, but as it something that is weighing quite heavily on my mind at the moment and something that I find it really hard speaking with friends who have not dealt with the intensity of pwBPD relationships about, I would be very appreciative of any advice. 

Very short summary: I have been out of my relationship with exBPD for over two years and I honestly feel great. I am NC with exBPD, have been working A LOT with FOO issues and my core wounds and feel that I have emerged a stronger and happier person than I ever was before. Yes, it was a hellish ride, but it was definitely worth it.

Some months ago I started dated again for the first time since exBPD - it has been extremely important for me not to rush into a new relationship, but to spend the time needed to deal with my own issues first. I have now come to the point where I actually FEEL ready to be with someone new - I have met an extremely nice, sensitive and kind woman that I really enjoy being with. None of that over-the-top "you're my soul mate"-BPD stuff, but slow, reciprocated and honest exchange of affection, love and care.

My sole problem is sex...every time we have sex, I get very strong flashbacks about having sex with my exBPD and after I have those, I simply can't stand to be touched sexually by my new girlfriend. It's as if it is a completely automatic reaction beyond my control. (Sorry, if I am being graphic here, but I trust you understand my need to explain.) She's doing absolutely nothing wrong and I really hate for it to be this way.

Have any of you had similar experiences and how did you deal with it?

[Want2know]

I understand how you are feeling.  I am in a new r/s of about 2 months, and my first boundary was to not have sex until I felt ready.  In thinking about it today, actually, I think my hesitation is that the 3 serious relationships in my life have all ended up with a feeling of rejection, and it's almost easier to not become too involved, especially on a sexual level, because if I don't engage, I can't be rejected.  This is something I am working on with my new guy, and the key has been communication...true, open, honest communication about how I feel, and that my behavior, of not wanting to get involved yet on that level, has nothing to do with him and everything to do with me still healing from those old wounds.  He has been tremendously understanding and supportive.  

Have you talked to her about how you feel?

[schwing]

I think what you are going through is perfectly reasonable.

How can your brain not make the connection that what you are experiencing in this new relationship is reminiscent of the traumatic experience that was your exBPD relationship.  Think of it as not unlike Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) where your mind has associated all the cues of a physically intimate adult relationship, with the emotional pain and trauma of being abandoned by your exBPD significant other.

It may take some time before your brain is ready to accept that this relationship is not the same as the past one.  And depending upon how much these flashbacks and feelings are affecting you, you might consider seeking professional assistance to help you get past this impediment.

Unfortunately, this is either something your new girlfriend will or will not be able to understand and sympathize with.  Depending upon her own issues and insecurities, she may internalize what you going through and take your unexpected reactions personally.  Hopefully she won't.  But we're all only human.  Not having had a background similar to yours or an experience like yours, she might not be able to empathize with what you are going through.

I don't know if your relationship is at a stage where a conversation about these issues feels approachable but in my book it is also better to bring these kind of things out into the open to avoid misunderstandings.

Best wishes, Schwing

[Sofie]

Thank you both of you for your kind replies. No, I have not spoken with my new gf about how I feel - she can feel something is wrong, though. Again, sorry for the details, but I have no problem with and like pleasuring her, but I can't stand when she wants to satisfy me and so I pull away, which confuses and hurts her, of course.

On one side, I guess I am just afraid of hurting her by telling her - who wants to know that your gf is thinking about her ex when you're having sex, right? I am also afraid that she will take it the wrong way and think that it is really about that I still want to sleep with my ex, which I really, really don't.
On the other side, I am also thinking that ok, so I tell her - and then what? She will ask me if she can do something differently, help me, etc. and I know that she can't, because she already IS doing all of the right things - being kind, patient, all of that and I really feel as if this has got nothing to do with her. And I DO want to sleep with her - it is just as if my brain has been hardwired in some messed up way, which I guess it also has in a way.

I understand what you are saying about post traumatic stress, Schwing - I guess I just don't really know how to move beyond it. I feel I have dealt with my pain from my BPD relationship in so many ways - seeing a T, examining FOO issues, understanding my own behavior, taking my time, etc. but this physical area is definitely still something that I need to work with.

[Mariposa]

Hey Sofie  Hi!

Can I ask what it is about sex with your ex that gives you these flashbacks? Maybe, if you can work out what the issue was when you had sex with your ex, then you can address the problem and explain it to your girlfriend. if you explain to her the trauma of your last relationship, i'm sure she will understand...although, trying to explain a BPD relationship to people who don't know about BPD, is very difficult!

I hope you find your way through this! Sorry I haven't been much help xx

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[Sofie]

Thanks for your reply, Mariposa - just being able to discuss this with someone familiar with BPD helps me a great deal.  
I really am not sure what it is that triggers me other than, as I wrote above, being on the receiving end of sexual stimulation. I did not have any traumatic sexual experiences with BPDex - it was not the over-the-top crazy sex that some people here write about, but very intense, of course, because I was so in love with her.
Hugging, kissing, cuddling and satisfying my new partner is all fine and well with me and I get aroused alright, but as soon as she wants to pleasure me I quite literally get distracted by strong mental images of my ex pleasuring me instead of her - and then I suddenly feel repulsed, quite strongly, by her touch in a very instinctive and immediate "Get off me!"-kinda way. Argh, it's just so frustrating!

[Want2know]

On one side, I guess I am just afraid of hurting her by telling her - who wants to know that your gf is thinking about her ex when you're having sex, right? I am also afraid that she will take it the wrong way and think that it is really about that I still want to sleep with my ex, which I really, really don't.

Mariposa is on the right track...there is a reason why you are thinking about your ex.  You don't necessarily need to tell her that part of your current conflict, but instead think a little more why you are thinking about her, and go from there. 

You said that it's when she wants to please you is when you pull away.  Why is that?  It seems this is what you need to figure out first, and then maybe you will have a better idea of how to frame your conversation with you new gf. 

Being able to accept "love", which is kind of what you are referring to, can be difficult because it makes you vulnerable.  After having a r/s with a pwBPD, being vulnerable is hard because when we allowed ourselves to be that way with with our ex's, we got hurt.  It's almost like you are protecting yourself from getting hurt again by not fully allowing yourself to receive pleasure. 

[Sofie]

On one side, I guess I am just afraid of hurting her by telling her - who wants to know that your gf is thinking about her ex when you're having sex, right? I am also afraid that she will take it the wrong way and think that it is really about that I still want to sleep with my ex, which I really, really don't.

Mariposa is on the right track...there is a reason why you are thinking about your ex.  You don't necessarily need to tell her that part of your current conflict, but instead think a little more why you are thinking about her, and go from there. 

You said that it's when she wants to please you is when you pull away.  Why is that?  It seems this is what you need to figure out first, and then maybe you will have a better idea of how to frame your conversation with you new gf. 

Being able to accept "love", which is kind of what you are referring to, can be difficult because it makes you vulnerable.  After having a r/s with a pwBPD, being vulnerable is hard because when we allowed ourselves to be that way with with our ex's, we got hurt.  It's almost like you are protecting yourself from getting hurt again by not fully allowing yourself to receive pleasure. 

Thank you for your reply. I think that what you are saying is a big part of it - about subconsciously trying to protect myself and fearing to be vulnerable and intimate.
There's definitely also something about loss of power, loss of control - about fearing to be as much within another person's power as you to some extent are when you are allowing that person to pleasure you.

What bothers me the most, I guess, is thinking that I am perhaps too damaged, damaged beyond repair - that this insane sexual chemistry I had with my ex is making this new experience pale and seem wrong. Not that I want my ex back in any way, but on some level maybe I interpret sex with my new partner as "wrong", because it isn't as intense? Maybe on some subconscious level it doesn't feel "right"? Oh, I don't know, really.

[Mariposa]

I know exactly what you mean Sofie. I haven't been interested in anyone since me and my exBPD broke up 2 months ago and the thought of sex with someone makes me feel sick, but for me, I think it's because no-one will ever compare or match up to the intense, crazy sex me and my exBPD used to have. I feel almost like I am grieving for the sex part of our relationship, as well as grieving the actual loss of him!

[Want2know]

There's definitely also something about loss of power, loss of control - about fearing to be as much within another person's power as you to some extent are when you are allowing that person to pleasure you.

I read something recently about "pre-requisites" for love and great sex.  Vulnerability, trust, intimacy, empathy, and respect were the main pieces of the puzzle.  So, if you are not feeling like you have these things or that you cannot allow yourself to explore these aspects of your relationship, then you will continue to have issues. 

I really do understand this, and can see that the feeling of a loss of control, or lack of being able to be vulnerable is getting in the way for me, too.  I think for me, it was the fact that, in my vulnerable state, I let the sex with my ex blind me to all the red flags and behaviors that were so destructive.  This is why until I really feel I know, trust, and fully respect my new partner, I will not be able to allow myself be vulnerable.

You say that you've been dating this woman for a few months.  How often do you see her, and when was the first time you had sex with her?  After 1 date, 1 month?  No judgment here, but I think it would be helpful to know how sex with your new gf evolved.  Even though you had been out of your BPD r/s for over 2 years, if this is the first woman you have attempted a r/s with, there are still some fleas lingering that you are going to need to address.

What bothers me the most, I guess, is thinking that I am perhaps too damaged, damaged beyond repair - that this insane sexual chemistry I had with my ex is making this new experience pale and seem wrong. Not that I want my ex back in any way, but on some level maybe I interpret sex with my new partner as "wrong", because it isn't as intense? Maybe on some subconscious level it doesn't feel "right"? Oh, I don't know, really.

I don't think you are damaged beyond repair.  I just think you felt good about moving on and trying a new r/s, and maybe went a bit too fast.  You can reconcile this if your new gf is open to it, and if she isn't, then you can decide if it's worth it for you to remain with her.  What is your level of communication with her otherwise?  How in depth do you talk about life, the past, philosophies, etc?  In your best estimation, would she be open to talking about prior relationships?

[Sofie]

You say that you've been dating this woman for a few months.  How often do you see her, and when was the first time you had sex with her?  After 1 date, 1 month?  No judgment here, but I think it would be helpful to know how sex with your new gf evolved.  Even though you had been out of your BPD r/s for over 2 years, if this is the first woman you have attempted a r/s with, there are still some fleas lingering that you are going to need to address.

I don't think you are damaged beyond repair.  I just think you felt good about moving on and trying a new r/s, and maybe went a bit too fast.  You can reconcile this if your new gf is open to it, and if she isn't, then you can decide if it's worth it for you to remain with her.  What is your level of communication with her otherwise?  How in depth do you talk about life, the past, philosophies, etc?  In your best estimation, would she be open to talking about prior relationships?

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. My new gf and I started dating about five months ago - before that time, we had known each other for about half a year. (Met each other doing business together.) We began having sex two months ago after three months of going slooooooooooow, because that was what I needed to do being very scared of going down the "too much, too soon"-road once again. I think she has been extremely patient with me.

I told her early on - before we were dating, actually - that I came out of a relationship that was highly dysfunctional. When we began dating, I told her in more detail about BPD, the relationship, etc. also because I honestly feared that BPDex would stalk her/us, which, as I have written about on the leaving board, BPDex also did to some extent by emailing my new girlfriend, leaving notes attached to my car, etc. I don't feel scared of or threatened by BPDex in any way, but I wanted to make sure that my new gf was aware of that we could potentially be harassed by exBPD.

I think we have a very good and honest relationship and communicate very well, but understandably, it IS hard for her to understand how my BPD relationship affected me having never experienced it herself. She tells me that she is in love with me and is willing to help me and be there for me in every way I need her to be - maybe I am also having trouble believing that, I don't know.

[Want2know]

I'm glad you feel comfortable sharing your situation...it's helping me work through some of my r/s issues, as well.  It sounds like you have pinpointed a specific reaction you are having, and have an idea behind why you are feeling this way.  Your girlfriend and you communicate well, and she is aware that your last r/s was dysfunctional.  All the pieces are there for you...it's putting them all together in a healing way so that you can move past your dilemma.  You said you've seen a T before, is this something you think you might want to work on with them?  I've done counseling on and off, as needed, and sometimes, I'll go for a couple of visits just to get through some internal conflict I am experiencing.  Have you thought about going back to the T you saw before?

[Upnorth]

Thanks for a good topic, I also recognize your issues.
For me sex was the thing in our r/s that started to drive us apart almost directly from the beginning. At the end, half a year later, I had completely lost my lust.

Now, I have also a hard time to start again in a new relation, despite taking it very slow.

By this thread I got an idea of how to regain trust in sexual situations, by first acquire it in other settings.
To find situations where I have to let go of control and let the other be responsible. Maybe be blindfolded while the other does things like caressing my face, shave me or things like that?
 
Does it sound like something to try?

[Sade]

I'm so glad you brought this up Sophie!

I am scared of what will happen when I have sex with someone else and am scared I will freak out.

I think this is because my ex tried to strangle me ( not during sex) and I fear being vulnerable with another man.

[Want2know]

first acquire it in other settings.
To find situations where I have to let go of control and let the other be responsible.

Building trust in relationships after you've had a r/s where your trust was violated can be difficult.  I think that your idea, Upnorth, is a good starting point. Find ways to build trust in other areas first.  Being vulnerable can be scary, but it doesn't have to be.  It's about being vulnerable, but also being aware so that you can react appropriately and not feel like you are being taken advantage of.  I think we all have learned to be more aware, and now have to learn how to trust ourselves, too.  If you can't trust yourself, your gut, your intuition, then trusting another is probably not going to fully happen.

[Sofie]

Have you thought about going back to the T you saw before?

Yes, I have. Most of the time spent with my T was spent discussing FOO issues - for me, personally, I found out that my relationship with BPDex was really just a symptom of my underlying core issues. Once I got into these issues, discussing BPDex really didn't matter much anymore to me - it was much more about examining why I sought out disordered people in the first  place. I think this has been the right approach for me, but this also means that I haven't really discussed sex with my therapist - not that I don't want to, it previously just has not seemed important for me to examine with her.

Upnorth,

Hmmm...yeah, could be interesting to try at least.
After reading all of the feedback you guys have given me and having spent most of the day thinking about this, I have come to the conclusion that I think I primarily need for the "pressure" to be taken off sex right now - I need to be able to be intimate with my gf without feeling that it has to involve her trying to pleasure me. I would like to feel that it's ok just to make out and for me to please her and then that would be all - I think I would really enjoy that. But, man...how to tell someone who is in love with you, "Hey, please don't touch me, because that would make me feel better - thanks!"  

[Sade]

Your final point is the crux of it Sophie!

In a new relationship how can you say to someone 'I don't want to do X/Y or Z because my last partner was MAD and I'm really messed up about sex'?

If someone said that to me I'd be outa there. In fact, now, I'd think I was dealing with another BPD!

Maybe these feelings are want they call 'fleas'?

[Want2know]

for me, personally, I found out that my relationship with BPDex was really just a symptom of my underlying core issues.

Absolutely, as it is for most of us!  Good work on that one.  

I have come to the conclusion that I think I primarily need for the "pressure" to be taken off sex right now - I need to be able to be intimate with my gf without feeling that it has to involve her trying to pleasure me. I would like to feel that it's ok just to make out and for me to please her and then that would be all - I think I would really enjoy that. But, man...how to tell someone who is in love with you, "Hey, please don't touch me, because that would make me feel better - thanks!"  

Ok, here's a chance to use some of the techniques we talk about on these boards often.  Validation and SET.  Granted your gf is not BPD, but these tools are good for communicating, in general.  Here are the links...take a look and see how you might phrase this using one or both of these tools.

TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

[Sofie]

I have come to the conclusion that I think I primarily need for the "pressure" to be taken off sex right now - I need to be able to be intimate with my gf without feeling that it has to involve her trying to pleasure me. I would like to feel that it's ok just to make out and for me to please her and then that would be all - I think I would really enjoy that. But, man...how to tell someone who is in love with you, "Hey, please don't touch me, because that would make me feel better - thanks!"  

Ok, here's a chance to use some of the techniques we talk about on these boards often.  Validation and SET.  Granted your gf is not BPD, but these tools are good for communicating, in general.  Here are the links...take a look and see how you might phrase this using one or both of these tools.

TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

   You're right. As you say, my new gf is not BPD, but she is - as everybody is in the beginning of a relationship - anxious about my perception of her and whether she's "good enough" and needs my validation and approval of her right to her own feelings.

Could it be something like trying to say that:

1) It's really important for me to contribute to making our sex life work, because I really care about her and want us to be happy together and well...have good sex!

2) I totally understand that she feels hurt and rejected when I pull away, but...

3) ...it has nothing to do with me not wanting her or with that she is doing something wrong, but only with the fact that I am still recovering from having been with someone who abused me emotionally, manipulated me and violated my trust and that means I am still quite sensitive and not able to "receive" her sexually right now.

I am thinking that I in that way won't have to tell her about the flashbacks about my ex - I really think that would hurt her bad - but I could still be honest about my feelings.

[Want2know]

I am thinking that I in that way won't have to tell her about the flashbacks about my ex - I really think that would hurt her bad - but I could still be honest about my feelings.

Yes!  There is no reason to bring that part up, and what you wrote is great.       You are addressing the issue that is effecting you both in a manner that is supportive and honest.  Very nice!   

[Mariposa]

I hope it all goes well for you Sofie...lots of     

Keep us posted how you get on xx

[Sofie]

Thank you all for your words and kindness - it means a lot. 

I met with my gf for lunch today and spoke with her about this - somehow it was important for me to have this talk outside of an intimate/sexual situation. She was very sweet and kind and listened patiently, although I could see that my words also made her a bit insecure - she asked me whether I thought I would want for her to please me at some point in the future, and I must admit that I lied and said, "Of course...I just need time." The honest answer would have been to say, "I don't know." I just couldn't say it.
She asked me repeatedly whether there was something she could do differently or whether she did something wrong, and I told her that no, honey, you can't "fix" me and it's not your job to do so. Whether that eased her mind or actually frustrated her a bit, I am a bit unsure of...well, we'll see, I guess. 

[Mariposa]

Bless you both! This must be hard for the both of you and confusing for your girlfriend, without understanding fully, how damaging a BPD relationship can be.

It's obvious how much she loves you and I feel you will be able to work through this as long as you both continue to keep communicating.

I'm sure your girlfriend will have all sorts of insecure thoughts running through her mind. Maybe you can both think of other intimate things to engage in, other than pleasuring each other, or her you.

I wish you both all the best 

[diotima]

Ah Sophie, you are being so upfront about this and I can feel the dilemma. I don't know if this relates to your situation but I'll give it a try. When I had sex the first time in my new r/s, I felt disloyal to my BPD ex and had to work through that (I know, it is crazy, but there it was) and it was difficult for me. Once i realized that it got (a lot) easier. I had a lot of connection on an emotional level to my ex--even if he was an abuser, etc., etc. I felt like I was betraying the a**hole--and he was cheating all the time!
Diotima

[kimbers43]

I just wanted to add that i felt exactly the same when i had sex with my new partner. I felt guilty and that i was cheating on my exgf even though she was happily sleeping with other people and hasn't spared a thought for my feelings. I kept thinking of her and how she would be reacting to the person she was with all the time we had sex. Very off putting and its something i have had to block from my mind. My partner is very understanding and  i have been able to explain this to her which has helped. She had the same feelings when she first had sex with someone else after her break up. The key to it all is talking i guess and letting your emotions happen and then controlling them.

[Mariposa]

I haven't actually slept with anyone else yet, but it something that I am very worried about. I feel guilty if another guy so much as chats to me. I avoid it if I can. Yet, I know my ex will be flirting and would more than likely sleep with anyone that would!

[Sofie]

Thank you for your replies.
Hmmmm, I wouldn't say there is any guilt involved in it on my part - I don't feel that I still "belong" to exBPD in any way or that I am cheating on her.

As Schwing talked about, in my case it is much more as if it has become some kind of automatic part physical/part psychological reaction on my part - sex with new partner? Bam, pictures of ex in my mind. I don't even think of her before my ex begins to touch me - it is just as if the images force their way into my mind. I don't know...I guess that somehow sex+ex have been enmeshed in my mind and now I need to unravel these two again.

[Neverknow]

I have already started thining how difficult that is goint to be.

I'm definitely going to need some decompression time before having any kind of normal relationship, sex included, with anyone.

Otherwise, I know I wil just mess it up.

[diotima]

Sofie, that happened to me the first time too (pix of ex in my mind) but it gradually went away. Good to hear you don't feel any of the other stuff.
Diotima