does your pwBPD do this

[Think About It...]

 Hi!
We have noticed that dd seems to take things literally, I give you a couple of funny things shes done and Id be interested if yours have done the same or similar and wonder why and whats that about.

So, when she was about 6, she was still learning to read and she was staring at a picture we have up in our living room, she turned to me and asked, does that say lucky willys, No, its Lucy Willis the artist who painted it haha.

Then when she was about 16 she was working in a charity shop, the lady said to her to cut all the lables out of the t shirts and throw them away, she threw the t shirts away, haha the lady ment the lables

She cant get the concept of ball and chain saying.

Then yesterday we were talking about a special new nailvarnish that I bought and we were saying how it works, I said its just like if you painted your walls with a gloss paint then went over it with a mat. dd said ha oh I see, but whod be silly to put a matt on the wall. Hahaa

It it a bit asperges do you think?

[heronbird]

 Hi!
We have noticed that dd seems to take things literally, I give you a couple of funny things shes done and Id be interested if yours have done the same or similar and wonder why and whats that about.

So, when she was about 6, she was still learning to read and she was staring at a picture we have up in our living room, she turned to me and asked, does that say lucky willys, No, its Lucy Willis the artist who painted it haha.

Then when she was about 16 she was working in a charity shop, the lady said to her to cut all the lables out of the t shirts and throw them away, she threw the t shirts away, haha the lady ment the lables

She cant get the concept of ball and chain saying.

Then yesterday we were talking about a special new nailvarnish that I bought and we were saying how it works, I said its just like if you painted your walls with a gloss paint then went over it with a mat. dd said ha oh I see, but whod be silly to put a matt on the wall. Hahaa

It it a bit asperges do you think?

[twojaybirds]

I am a special ed teacher and have worked with kiddos with Asperger's.  I used to say  about my d "i know she isn't on the spectrum and never would asess for Asperger's however there is something that is just a little odd with her understanding and using langauge regarding concrete/literal/black and white."   

She started reading when she was four and her language came in well despite having a bi-lateral hearing loss; so I attributed her lack of understadning such nuances to the hearing loss.  Certainly some of it was the loss however not all.

Your example of the paint and mattee vs mat is something kids with special needs or learning english as a second language would confuse - not considering that one word may have multiple meanings thus forcing thier one interpertation into the situation.

As I wrtie this I think this works for BPD on different planes;
It's subjective - this is how I think about this word and there's no other way
It's black/white - this is the one definnition and there's nothign else
It's an altered reality - taking my way of thinking or my definiton and making it fit evenif it is non-sensical to others.
It's an emotional youngess - understanding  langauge

When my d was about 7 we watched my Big Fat Greek Wedding.  Remember the scene where the brother has him say "I have 3 testicles" in Greek.   Many months later in chuch the pastor was expalining the Greek derevation to a word and she leans over to me and says "do you think our pasotr has 3 testicle?"  "WHAT"  "Well he"s ytalking about greek."


The the movie Baby Mama when she is high on an IV in the hospital and says "I wonder what the street name for this is?'
I laughed - she laughed - I asked her what was so funny
"She's not even on a street."


Gotta love our kids from bringing these smiles!

[Thursday]

heronbird,

I have a little  nephew who has Aspergers. Once I was playing with him and he did something cute and I said outloud,

"you are such a punkin!"

He told me,

"I am not a pumpkin, I am a boy."

My SD has uttered a lot of bizarro stuff...we have a big electrical plant on the edge of our town that has some huge smokestacks. She once asked if they were cloud machines (she was 18 at the time. To me this is like something a little kid would say.)

Sometimes I think her lack of understanding is a put on, meant to make her seem whimsically stupid as she really likes the "dumb blonde" persona. It's as if she gets hung up on a hook with this, hard for her to escape acting like this...must give her some relief or a feeling of who she is. It's hard for me to understand, I am the type of person who wants to get things right, the sort of person who feels validated if people can see my intelligence. I guess for her, this is not the easiest thing, better to seem dumb...less effort and sometimes people laugh and find her charming.

Thursday

[mom4jenna]

Hi all, I have thought about this over and over. My dd would ask about stuff that my husband and I thought a 14year old should know by now. When she was little, I thought she had some Asperger like behaviors. I am also a special Ed teacher and would notice the similarities. She had a lot of black and white thinking and concrete thinking. I have to remember that she might not really understand. She also says she can't tell when boys are talking sexual to her or sexual jokes. Her friends laugh at her because she doesn't get it. So now on tv if there is a sexual innuendo I will bring it up to see if she understands it. Many times, she doesn't and I explain it to her. Weird...

[Reality]

twojaybirds and mom4jenna,
With your Special Education background, would you say that the behaviors indicate Aspergers, maybe on the less severe point on the Spectrum.  I started a thread on Aspergers and BPD, but I don't think you were on the board then, so we didn't benefit from your imput.  What characteristics of Aspergers are most noticeable or were most noticeable in your child with BPD?
Reality

[twojaybirds]

I am  not a doctor but a Special Educator and counselor. This is what I know through research and experience.
Asperger's has a spectrum.  It is sometimes considered at the high functioning end of the Autism spectrum although many do not belive it is on that spectrum at all but is it's own unique disorder. The characteristics usually begin early and become more noticeable as a child grows, often because the discrepency between themselves and typical peers become more noticable, not necessarily because the disorder becomes worse.  The characteristics are usually:
Problems with social skills: Children with Asperger's syndrome generally have difficulty interacting with others and often are awkward in social situations. They generally do not make friends easily.
Eccentric or repetitive behaviors: Children with this condition may develop odd, repetitive movements, such as hand wringing or finger twisting.
Unusual preoccupations or rituals: A child with Asperger's syndrome may develop rituals that he or she refuses to alter, such as getting dressed in a specific order.
Communication difficulties: People with Asperger's syndrome may not make eye contact when speaking with someone. They may have trouble using facial expressions and gestures, and understanding body language. They also tend to have problems understanding language in context.
Limited range of interests: A child with Asperger's syndrome may develop an intense, almost obsessive, interest in a few areas, such as sports schedules, weather, or maps.
Coordination problems: The movements of children with Asperger's syndrome may seem clumsy or awkward.
Skilled or talented: Many children with Asperger's syndrome are exceptionally talented or skilled in a particular area, such as music or math.

For my d I saw social skills and communication similarites with Asperger's however I chalked it up to her hearing loss and no one ever would have seen that in her - she was just 'quirky"  not extreme enough to raise concenrns,

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[heronbird]

is it the same in girls and boys?
adhd is not is it, so I wondered if it was the same, yet we all hade some of these tendencies dont we.
Im annoyed at school they didnt do or refer dd for an assesment. She did have all the signs of girl adhd then, no one helped her, and thats not on.

[twojaybirds]

I think Asperger's is the same in girls as in boys.
ADHD is the same for both however female and male behavioral chararcteristics are different - think about bullying both girls and boys do it - it is the same thing - attack against another -  yet it may look different in its approach.

Being a teacher and parent it is hard to respond to your blame of the school.  No one would have ever referred my d despite her inability to maintain a friendship , work well in a group etc.  Now in high shcool she is in a school with 1,400 kids with alomost 80% at free and reduced lunch.  There are kids with problems all over the place.  The teachers are awesome but at what point does something become a large enough issue for a referral.

Parents also have the right and responsibility to request a student intervention team meeting and ask for assessments.  Schools must respond in so many days according to federal law.  So it is a partnership.  I would not have asked for such an assessment on my d - she was quirky - but doing ok - not the happiest high school student but not seemingly depressed.  I was convinced high school was not her thing but she would be a great adult - her kind ,caring social worker ways. 

UGH, sometimes we have to get past blame and looking back to looking forward.

[Reality]

twojaybirds,
Heronbird's daughter suffered horribly in her school years from the accounts heronbird has communicated.  Neglect, isolation, lack of compassion and any support... I think unravelling this illness means trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together, to make sense of how the soup started to boil.  It is a complex set of genetic and environmental factors that set up the unbearable suffering. 
There has been a fair bit of discussion here  around early intervention for people at risk for BPD, as well as an emerging sense amongst the medical professionals like Blaise Aguirre of the value and good sense of an early diagnosis. 
In a sense, there is blame to be placed, areas where improvement is needed.  It is not a personal attack but rather a noticing and discussion of possible areas of systemic lack. 
I have just visited the Toronto Police to discuss my complaint of a lapse of professional behavior and language and an insensitivity towards people suffering from mental illness.  I indicated a concern about the issues from a systemic perspective, rather than a complaint only directed towards the officers involved.  I think community means supporting each other this way.
Reality

[twojaybirds]

I know every child and situation is different.  I was speaking from my situation. From both a parent and teacher perspective both parties have a responsibilitiy to request an intervetnion.

When I watched those 'reality' police shows with my d I so often pointed out that most of those people had mental health concerns and were not criminals.  Our US system is poorly designed to help those with any type of differences.  Most all of the success stories are when families are advocates and supportive.

My comment about 'placing blame' can keep us or atleast me stuck in that rut of trying to find the person or reason, even  in somewhat denial rather than accepting and working toward solutions.

Hope I didn;t insult anyone.   

[heronbird]

Twojaybirds,

Its good for me to hear it from another point of view, but if I think about it too much it does annoy me. I mean my dd was so seriously ill in school and they didnt look into it at all.

How do you know as a parent what to ask for if youve never been through anything like it before.

Actually adhd does present itself differently in girls and boys, so when we got our diagnosis of BPD and were refered to a P in the community she strongly suspected adhd and looked into it.
She said it i very different in girls and they often dont get diagnosed.

Yes, move on heronbird and get over it. Thats what I think too but its strange it just gets me.

Well, dont get me wrong its not a massive thing in my life its a very small thing.
Thanks anyway.

Thanks Reality, you must listen to my boring long posts and thats nice to know. Thats whats so nice about this board, I keep telling everyone about it, such a support. It would be amazing to meet you one day in Netherlands.
My book says that I am now part of a club no one wants to join, and I never wanted to join, this is true for all of us, but it certainly helps knowing we are all supporting and trying to help eachother.

[twojaybirds]

It gets me too and it's easy to type - "let's move on."
I believe intellectually we all know that life keeps me and so do we
however emotionally it is sooo much harder.  I too think the ifs and buts.  So for me when i can respond objectively to someone elses' present cocnerns it helps me move ahead.