Words are their best form of manipulation

[Think About It...]

Along with their mirroring they are often very good with words, and how the use/mis use them. I had years of it and it took me a very long time to hear the words, rather than ignore them. I couldn't understand why I always seemed to have the uneasy feeling inside sometimes when we were talking.

Let me give you an example of a subtle way of putting you down, that would normally go unnoticed. We are driving along the motorway when we miss the necessary exit to take us to the the airport. This sort of stuff doesn't bother me, I just head for the next exit. If we miss the plane, so what, we catch another. She would say something like, " At least you don't freak out about things like that". Now at first look that would appear to be a  compliment, but on further inspection what it actually makes you do is question yourself. IE By saying "at least" she was implying that I 'did' freak out about other things. Can you see what I mean? What she could have said was something along the lines or , " I love the fact that you don't get uptight about things like that". Do you see the different.

Here is another example of their distortions. I lent my car to my Ex, after being gone some time I went to bed. I wasn't worried, but I expected something had may not gone to plan. She came home and getting in to bed she said, " I am really sorry but I have badly scraped the side of your car". I turned over and and said, " no worries its just a car, and I meant it". It really didn't matter to me. Next morning I heard her on the phone talking to her Mother, telling her how I had freaked out when she told me.

Some subtle some not so subtle, but never the less it undermines one sense of self. If I actually reminded her that I had not freaked out, she would deny it, and go straight into gas lighting.
Anyway just reminders that you may relate to. That is why I left the woman I loved, because as the advert for perfume says. Because I'm worth it

[soul]

Along with their mirroring they are often very good with words, and how the use/mis use them. I had years of it and it took me a very long time to hear the words, rather than ignore them. I couldn't understand why I always seemed to have the uneasy feeling inside sometimes when we were talking.

Let me give you an example of a subtle way of putting you down, that would normally go unnoticed. We are driving along the motorway when we miss the necessary exit to take us to the the airport. This sort of stuff doesn't bother me, I just head for the next exit. If we miss the plane, so what, we catch another. She would say something like, " At least you don't freak out about things like that". Now at first look that would appear to be a  compliment, but on further inspection what it actually makes you do is question yourself. IE By saying "at least" she was implying that I 'did' freak out about other things. Can you see what I mean? What she could have said was something along the lines or , " I love the fact that you don't get uptight about things like that". Do you see the different.

Here is another example of their distortions. I lent my car to my Ex, after being gone some time I went to bed. I wasn't worried, but I expected something had may not gone to plan. She came home and getting in to bed she said, " I am really sorry but I have badly scraped the side of your car". I turned over and and said, " no worries its just a car, and I meant it". It really didn't matter to me. Next morning I heard her on the phone talking to her Mother, telling her how I had freaked out when she told me.

Some subtle some not so subtle, but never the less it undermines one sense of self. If I actually reminded her that I had not freaked out, she would deny it, and go straight into gas lighting.
Anyway just reminders that you may relate to. That is why I left the woman I loved, because as the advert for perfume says. Because I'm worth it

[Zaza42]

Good catch nick! I was thinking about starting a thread like this but you beat me to it. The very suddle things they say... Mostly superficial

I was stressing after I was getting recycles and ended up getting a pimple (end of the world? Nah) but when he first saw me after a week he pointed out that I have ache. I told him that's not very nice to say and he replied, " no I'm just surprise because you never have acne." like that's supposed to make me feel better.

Another thing is I have peach fuzz on my upper legs. It's only visible in the sun and honesty it's become a deal breaker if guys complain now haha. Well of course he tells me how bad it's gotten and how I really need to shave it because it's pretty gross. Peach fuz! It was rather offensive.

Then always btching about my lip hair? Lip hair? Never heard of it, never seen it, never had another person complain.

It was these little things to widdle down my confidence that I caught. And they were so superficial!

[luckystrikes]

Next morning I heard her on the phone talking to her Mother, telling her how I had freaked out when she told me.

dont really have anything to contribute to this thread but WOW would that have infuriated me. i remember for our first christmas, my ex bought my mother a carton of cigarettes. it struck me as...not at all terribly thoughtful. and kind of a statement really, suggesting the only thing a person would relate my mother with is smoking. i forget how it came up, but my ex prompted me on how i felt about it, and i told her. oh did she freak. and then she called her mom to tell her, twisted my words even worse, etc.

 

[soul]

Presents are whole different thing with BPD's. Because they are mirroring you, they don't really get to know you at all. My ex never bought me things that I may have like, even though my friends would have no problem. We are not talking big and expensive, just something thoughtful. My last xmas with my ex she bought me a pair of size 7 girls, faux fur boots. I am a man with size nine feet. I guess she needed some boots. Worse than that, even though the situation was totally non sensical, I chose to pretend that they were fine, because of the way she was looking at me. Almost like they were a test. By this time, there were so many red flying that I could actual hear them flapping in the breeze as she walked by. It still took me another 3 months to leave. But leave I did ... 14 months NC

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[luckystrikes]

thats interesting. ive read similar stories of particularly unthoughtful BPD gift givers. i gotta say that was one of my exes most positive qualities. THE MOST thoughtful gifts, without fail. things i couldnt have even begun to think of, but couldnt believe i hadnt, and it was always a gift that sort of complimented/acknowledged my talents and hobbies. very very thoughtful.

shoot, i actually came out of this with some pretty cool stuff. i couldnt get the exchange of belongings to happen, so i have her PS2  


ps. just realized i completely contradicted myself. okay. the carton of cigarettes was not thoughtful. but her gifts to me were extremely thoughtful, and our mutual female friend agreed that she always gave very thoughtful gifts.

[soul]

As in all disorders, there are more prevalent traits with some than others. No all BPD's have the same issues, and very often they have a mixture of different things going on. Mine although incredibly attractive, didn't think so herself. Real dysmorphia to the nth degree. Of course I would contradict this with lots love and affection. I now realise this would have just been interpreted be her as. What is wrong with him, I am horrible and ugly and he says that he loves me, he must be mad. Then the classic push away, especially when you have just opened up your heart.  cRaZZYY making behaviour. I prey to who ever hears to be free from it all one day .. we shall see if any one hears.

[Belka]

I remember the first time I met my ex friend's girlfriend for the first time (in real life- we'd been Internet acquaintances for a few months prior) both of them were so passive aggressive I could hardly believe it. He brought her up to my art studio. I was in the middle of switching studios/moving and he knew that. I was actually leaving to take a break from carrying boxes when they showed up unannounced wanting to see the place. As I walked with them back to my studio the girlfriend said that she'd been to visit an artist's community similar to this one and that the people there were really unfriendly and snobby and she hoped that this place wouldn't be like that. I was dumbfounded. I didn't know what to say, except to apologize for her being treated badly there and saying that surely that wouldn't happen here. What a loaded thing to say!

I did my best to show them around the my studio. Since I was in the middle of moving, nothing was where it was supposed to be so I did my best to show them where I planned to put things. The girlfriend mentioned something about me keeping "all of my animals there." I had two house cats that lived at my house. We didn't know each other well, but I know she knew I didn't have multiple pets I was planning to keep at my tiny art studio! ? I guess she suddenly got me mixed up with someone else. I apologized once more for the state my studio was in and the mess. Instead of saying that it was okay and that a mess was to be expected in the middle of a move, his comment was, "well, it matches the rest of the place." They were both pretty amused by that and then left. I felt about two inches tall.

[whirlpoollife]

Nickcook, you said it right, words of manipulation. I'm embarassed to say my years of marriage to my h.  I am in the detaching process so to him I'm the crazy one.  He has texted these words for many months: u ok? , is all well?  U doing ok?. All day for no reason. On way to a family party he asks that , even though I and kids were fine as we were getting ready.  On way home from the party he tells me , you did good mama. 
His standard compliment for dinner is, I dont see anything wong with that.  I have told him to stop saying those and asking those words but he refuses because he sees no wrong in it. It creates self doubt but I am learning to bring up my self esteem to not let it get to me.
As for gifts, a few years ago,he told me to buy and wrap my own gift and make it from him. (So he looks good in front of children)

[soul]

WhirlPooLife. Self doubt is the worst thing. I spent years in my relationship and in the end doubted everything I said and did. Many months no contact, and I still have those doubt. I guess that is why I started this thread. It is sometimes worth remembering just how insidious this thing is. I once said to mine how bad I felt being so hung up about her. She said, " don't beat yourself up about it". Nice ! Her behaviour turns me inside out, and then she don't feel bad about it, like it was my fault.

I see better now when I am being manipulated, and WILL not tolerate it from anyone. Probably an over reaction from the fall out. Learning trust oneself again is one of the first many steps to recovery.

[Sade]

Oh Zaza- that's so spooky!

My BPDex had an ex gf who tried to commit suicide by slashing her wrists in the bath (Knowing what I know now I can fully understand why!). He said that she was insecure and 'all' he did was make a comment about her having a moustache and she locked herself in the bathroom and tried to kill herself. (my guess would be this comment had been the latest in a long line of comments about her appearance).

Well, he must have forgotten he'd told me this because in the final days of our 'marriage' he made a comment about me having a moustache (which I don't). I just though'Yeah? Well you have bad teeth, your breath smells of stale booze and, when you're on one of your drinking binges, the bathroom stinks of sh*t so don't expect me to go in there and slash my wrists'.

[bengaltropicat]

Words are the instruments of crazymaking and gaslighting.  Words are the means by which they rewrite history and change the facts to fit their world view.  Words are the means by which they inflict emotional abuse and enforce physical abuse.  Words are also the means by which the "tell"; for example, "you are having an affair"  means: "I am having an affair". If you listen to what they actually say, it is REALLY SCARY.

[waterlily11]

I completely agree. They undermine our sense of self. My exBPDp was very crafty about telling me 'how it is'. He thought he could tell me what I said, how to think, what I'm thinking, what I meant, what I did, etc. The power of my own perspective, a meeting of the minds, rarely occurred. He would block out acknowledging me about anything once he had a concept in his head. This caused me so much anxiety. It was like talking to a brick wall. He would also manipulate me into "admitting" certain aspects and then use it against me. All the while I tried to say no, just wipe the preconceived notions clean and listen fully to my point of view and go with it. It was ca-ra-zy talking with him about anything. It got to the point where I dreaded having even the most trivial conversations with him.

[redberry]

Yes, they can really chip away at our self esteem.  One time we were out to dinner with friends.  My ex and I both ordered a dish that wasn't especially healthy.  After the waiter took our order, he sort of announced to the table that he and I would need to eat healthy meals that next week to make up for it.  Then said, "right baby?" and sort of put his hand on my thigh under the table.  To others, it probably looked like a loving gesture, but he was actually squeezing my skin a few times to demonstrate that I needed to lose weight.  Now, I would not describe myself as overweight, but he knew this was a weakness of mine and he exploited it.  It was done in a way that I would have looked like a fool for making a scene at the table and if I said something about it to him afterward, he would claim that's not what he meant and that I was overreacting yet again when he was just trying to lovingly touch me.  He would do these types of things constantly...  Where he would subtly criticize me to get his point across, but if I questioned it, he would say I misunderstood and get annoyed with me for being so "sensitive" and killing the mood.

Total manipulation.

[Belka]

I completely agree. They undermine our sense of self. My exBPDp was very crafty about telling me 'how it is'. He thought he could tell me what I said, how to think, what I'm thinking, what I meant, what I did, etc. The power of my own perspective, a meeting of the minds, rarely occurred. He would block out acknowledging me about anything once he had a concept in his head. This caused me so much anxiety. It was like talking to a brick wall. He would also manipulate me into "admitting" certain aspects and then use it against me. All the while I tried to say no, just wipe the preconceived notions clean and listen fully to my point of view and go with it. It was ca-ra-zy talking with him about anything. It got to the point where I dreaded having even the most trivial conversations with him.

The "admitting" scenario really hits home with me. I remember in some of our final arguments, he aked really leading questions to get me to "admit" things. I was deep in the FOG and was doing my absolute best to communicate openly and honestly, something he said that we should be doing. I remember, once, telling him that I was starting to feel really jealous. I mean, who wouldn't, after being ditched socially and then him seeming to be okay with his girlfriend's disrespectful behavior towards me. Everyone feels jealous sometimes, right? He took my "admission" of jealousy as an opportunity to have this big dramatic "aha moment" in realizing that I must be trying to undermine he and his girlfriend's otherwise perfect relationship.    All I wanted was to be able to have fun with my friend again and get to know his girlfriend.

My ex friend is super-eloquent and and articulate. He loves the sound of his own voice and he's a great public speaker and a great writer. Quite often it seemed as if the moment he said something, wrote something, etc., it became the truth in his world, for better or for worse. He'd be confused and angry when other people saw the disparity between what he'd said and what was really happening. So talented. I just wished he used his superpowers for good instead of evil.

[luckystrikes]

Yes, they can really chip away at our self esteem.  One time we were out to dinner with friends.  My ex and I both ordered a dish that wasn't especially healthy.  After the waiter took our order, he sort of announced to the table that he and I would need to eat healthy meals that next week to make up for it.  Then said, "right baby?" and sort of put his hand on my thigh under the table.  To others, it probably looked like a loving gesture, but he was actually squeezing my skin a few times to demonstrate that I needed to lose weight.  Now, I would not describe myself as overweight, but he knew this was a weakness of mine and he exploited it.  It was done in a way that I would have looked like a fool for making a scene at the table and if I said something about it to him afterward, he would claim that's not what he meant and that I was overreacting yet again when he was just trying to lovingly touch me.  He would do these types of things constantly...  Where he would subtly criticize me to get his point across, but if I questioned it, he would say I misunderstood and get annoyed with me for being so "sensitive" and killing the mood.

Total manipulation.

it should just be taught in skills for girls 101 that you dont even acknowledge a womans weight unless youre telling her you like her body. yeah, id have been steaming.

[RKV]

The way my exwBPD would phrase things was always really subtle. It was blatant enough to pick up on but there was always plausible deniability with everything he said.
There were always accusations of me being arrogant. To him arrogance is when a person has abilities they're proud of and doesn't hate themselves.
He always accused me of being a know it all whenever he was insecure about his own knowledge. So when there was the stereotypical "know it all" character in a movie, he always commented without fail about how "Wow, that guy reminds me of you"

The most irritating thing is phrases like:
"Yeah, you're usually honest about that" When we were talking about a subject that I've never lied to him about.

[james79]

I know exactly what you mean about the subtle put downs, mine did this. W hat I think they are doing is gradually wearing you down until you snap. I used to snap and then when I did she would cry. After a while I stayed clam no matter what. She then claimed she did'nt like it I was calm as she did'nt feel she was in control. Basically she was failing to wind me up. No matter what I did it did'nt work. nothing was good enough for her.

[Neverknow]

Absolutely true.

My stbx BPD w's motto should be "Words speak louder than actions."   

[soul]

Absolutely true.

My stbx BPD w's motto should be "Words speak louder than actions."   

How perfectly put ...

[Sade]

RKV - spooky again. My ex tried to undermine the qualities he envied in me. Because I don't hate myself I was accused of 'loving myself'.
He has no friends, he refers to my friends as 'lackies' who worship me 'like a goddess'.