UBPDW is infatuated with other men

[Think About It...]

     My UBPDW has joined me with frequenting 24 hour Fitness for aquarobics, and she started attending daily exercise classes at the facility.  We made friends with another couple at our eavening aquarobics class, and I made friends with the husband as well.  I have noticed for the first time in our marriage that my UBPDW has become smitten with her friend's Husband, and talks about him often in an idealized fashon, and compares him to me as if I do not measure up to him.  I know he has not made any kind of advances, but I am somewhat concerned about this behavior.  She has cheated in the past, about 37 years ago, and I am resentful about this behavior, because she has refused all forms of intimacy for the last 35 years, and I am upset that I allowed her to do that as well.  My codependent behaviors have improved to the point where I can now see my issues that contributed to her being able to do this to me.  I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Art

[artman.1]

     My UBPDW has joined me with frequenting 24 hour Fitness for aquarobics, and she started attending daily exercise classes at the facility.  We made friends with another couple at our eavening aquarobics class, and I made friends with the husband as well.  I have noticed for the first time in our marriage that my UBPDW has become smitten with her friend's Husband, and talks about him often in an idealized fashon, and compares him to me as if I do not measure up to him.  I know he has not made any kind of advances, but I am somewhat concerned about this behavior.  She has cheated in the past, about 37 years ago, and I am resentful about this behavior, because she has refused all forms of intimacy for the last 35 years, and I am upset that I allowed her to do that as well.  My codependent behaviors have improved to the point where I can now see my issues that contributed to her being able to do this to me.  I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Art

[artman.1]

     In my case my UBPDW has refused all forms of intimacy for the last 35+ years, and only allowed my initiation sparingly for the time between 40 years ago and 35 years ago.  What is odd to me is she had some affairs about the time frame of 40 years ago til about 37 years ago.  She may have continued having affairs, but I never discovered any evidence, or any suspicious activities over the years from 35 years ago until present.  Another very concerning thing for me, is I have allowed this treatment, I do love her, and I have never cheated on her in any way.
     My UBPDW has made a new girlfriend at the 24 Hour Fitness, and I became friends with her and her husband as well.  My UBPDW seems much happier since we started going to aquarobics at 24 hour fitness, and has made several new friends.  Strangly, my UBPDW is quite smitten with her GF's husband and talks about him a lot lately.  This is the first time in our marriage that I have noticed her behavior like this.  I will have to bring this up with my Therapist today.  She seems so very disgusted with any kind of Intimacy with me.  She has told me she is not shure if she loves me, and after 43 years of marriage I believe that means NO!
     I shared this issue with my Therapist today, and she is very interested in why I want to stay with my UBPDW.  She feels that I am still sacrificing my needs, and quality of life to stay with my wife, since she does not believe anything will ever change and our RS will essentially remain the same as it has been.  I believe she is correct, and yet I am still having trouble considering the loosing our RS for good, as I do still love her, even though she does not, or cannot love me..

Art

[jessicapuppy]

Dear Art

I can remember reading in the past that you have had no intimacy in your relationship for all those years, and my heart goes out to you, it truly does.  I can't imagine what it must be like to live a life without the most basic of needs being met. 

To see your wife show such enthusiasm to the idea of someone else's husband, when you are barely thrown crumbs of intimacy, must be so painful.  It really must feel like having your nose rubbed in what was already an unbearable situation?

I can understand your therapist asking you why you would stay.  I can understand the need to compromise, but can I just ask you, what exactly do you feel that you get from this relationship?  I mean that in a truly sincere way, and not in anyway trying to be negative.  I assume that when making the decision to stay, you must have considered it worthwhile, for certain reasons?

JP
x

[goinbonkers]

     My UBPDW has joined me with frequenting 24 hour Fitness for aquarobics, and she started attending daily exercise classes at the facility.  We made friends with another couple at our eavening aquarobics class, and I made friends with the husband as well.  I have noticed for the first time in our marriage that my UBPDW has become smitten with her friend's Husband, and talks about him often in an idealized fashon, and compares him to me as if I do not measure up to him.  I know he has not made any kind of advances, but I am somewhat concerned about this behavior.  She has cheated in the past, about 37 years ago, and I am resentful about this behavior, because she has refused all forms of intimacy for the last 35 years, and I am upset that I allowed her to do that as well.  My codependent behaviors have improved to the point where I can now see my issues that contributed to her being able to do this to me.  I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Art

I am not actually sure what you need help with.  Would you just like her to stop doing what she is doing?  Can you not simply just talk to her about her behavior?

[pallavirajsinghani]

I am still having trouble considering the loosing our RS for good, as I do still love her, even though she does not, or cannot love me..

Artman:  Perhaps it is a love that is now more habit than desire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9QLqoptI_Q

[Miserable_moi]

     My UBPDW has joined me with frequenting 24 hour Fitness for aquarobics, and she started attending daily exercise classes at the facility.  We made friends with another couple at our eavening aquarobics class, and I made friends with the husband as well.  I have noticed for the first time in our marriage that my UBPDW has become smitten with her friend's Husband, and talks about him often in an idealized fashon, and compares him to me as if I do not measure up to him.  I know he has not made any kind of advances, but I am somewhat concerned about this behavior.  She has cheated in the past, about 37 years ago, and I am resentful about this behavior, because she has refused all forms of intimacy for the last 35 years, and I am upset that I allowed her to do that as well.  My codependent behaviors have improved to the point where I can now see my issues that contributed to her being able to do this to me.  I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Art

I am not actually sure what you need help with.  Would you just like her to stop doing what she is doing?  Can you not simply just talk to her about her behavior?

In my experience, they will never be told that what they are doing is wrong. Instead they will be angered by the 'criticism' and project their feelings of guilt and shame onto the non, thus 'telling us off' for daring to bring up the matter. So we end up hurt by their initial actions, then raged at and pushed away for having the gall to point it out.

[artman.1]

Hmmm,  Let me see...   
     what exactly do you feel that you get from this relationship?---I really don't think I am getting much at all.  Not love, not understanding, Many demands, much dissatisfaction from her, hateful behaviors, Abusive treatment, complaints about everything I cook, Refusal to clean, wash clothes, Watches TV continually, Likes other men better, refuses to show intimacy in any way, Disgust, Unhappiness, Eat, wants, argues, Comes to bed at 3-5AM-waking me up, and complains about my attitude.  She is the Mother of my three sons. 
     I assume that when making the decision to stay, you must have considered it worthwhile, for certain reasons?--Not really worthwhile, but she has some very bad health issues.  I guess guilt takes some place for me here, and my Codependent behaviors.
     Perhaps it is a love that is now more habit than desire.---I must agree.

Art     

[tzwong]

*hug* Sorry if the following post isn;t following very linear logic. We are dealing with a mental maze situation here...Just reminds me of somethign I have experienced.

I have had that situation come up when I was with my exuBPDgf. She will, every so often, fall in love/idealize/be infatuated with people whom she had just met.  I always suspected that part of the attraction lies in the fact that because they do not know her well, she can be "herself" with them...meaning she can be whoever she wants to be...kind of a clean slate. That feeling seems to be very irresistable for BPD types?

The big disconnect might be that she does not understand/feel the fact that he, as a normal person, might respond in some way and that her actions have concequences. I know mine was always shocked that the other guy has fallen in love with her. One time I saw a lettershe wrote to the otherguy saying such thigns as "you make me so happy" and "my life is better now that you are in it" etc, and I questioned her abotu it...her response was that "you don;t understand, it was a joke, this is how we joke". Most people would recgonize that those kinds of words are NOT jokes, but she really seemed to feel that it should have obviously been understood as "not serious" by both me and the other guy. I dont thinks he understands it because that is not how she processes emotions.

With my ex, ultimately there were only two instances where this infatuation did not lead to major issues (2 out of 6ish instances over 5 years), one where the other guy caught on early and walked away, and the other where she was infatuated with the stage personality of an accquantance of ours.

I found that when she was infatuated withthe stage personality, she used that to help "blow off steam" (kind of like a "positive" version of raging) i guess, in a relatively safe manner (because she she does that to real people, they resopond like real people and get hooked etc).   

Best case scenario is that hopefully, the other guy is a very very stand up guy and would never cheat on his wife.

I know that for me, I stuck around for as long as I did because I understood what was happening, andit made me feel guilty for leaving, but it also made me feel good to be so understanding and caring for this obviously sick person. I am out of the situation now (NC, and feeling good about the future at long last -  my break point was when she embraced who she was as she is and "gave up"). I don't regret staying as long as I did. I hope that you have no regrets as well.

[Auspicious]

The big disconnect might be that she does not understand/feel the fact that he, as a normal person, might respond in some way and that her actions have concequences. I know mine was always shocked that the other guy has fallen in love with her. One time I saw a lettershe wrote to the otherguy saying such thigns as "you make me so happy" and "my life is better now that you are in it" etc, and I questioned her abotu it...her response was that "you don;t understand, it was a joke, this is how we joke". Most people would recgonize that those kinds of words are NOT jokes, but she really seemed to feel that it should have obviously been understood as "not serious" by both me and the other guy. I dont thinks he understands it because that is not how she processes emotions.

Years ago, my wife liked to think of herself as "one of the guys" at work. She'd get very ticked if I pointed out the obvious - um, you're not a guy, you're not just getting the attention because of your great sense of humor and so forth, guys get a different kind of charge out of off color joking with women, etc. She was seriously that naive about it.

Just saying, it's at least possible for someone to not appreciate all the implications of how they are acting.

[jessicapuppy]

Hmmm,  Let me see...  
     what exactly do you feel that you get from this relationship?---I really don't think I am getting much at all.  Not love, not understanding, Many demands, much dissatisfaction from her, hateful behaviors, Abusive treatment, complaints about everything I cook, Refusal to clean, wash clothes, Watches TV continually, Likes other men better, refuses to show intimacy in any way, Disgust, Unhappiness, Eat, wants, argues, Comes to bed at 3-5AM-waking me up, and complains about my attitude.  She is the Mother of my three sons.  
     I assume that when making the decision to stay, you must have considered it worthwhile, for certain reasons?--Not really worthwhile, but she has some very bad health issues.  I guess guilt takes some place for me here, and my Codependent behaviors.
     Perhaps it is a love that is now more habit than desire.---I must agree.

Art    

Well, I don't have any great words of wisdom, as you have been working at your situation for a very long time.

I just think life is precious, and short.  I would like to see you happy, whatever that means for you.  I think that this latest behaviour, from what you are saying, is a drop in the ocean, in terms of treating you with little respect or thought for your feelings.  I wonder if anything she does will ever bee too much? Do you see yourself standing by her whatever she does to you, or can you see yourself on insisting on change and or getting out of the relationship?   Has she ever tried to change/get better?
JP
x

[artman.1]

jessicapuppy,     I feel hurt, and have been really upset with myself for this last year.  I always wondered why I just seemed to be unable to force myself to assert my own protections.  Now that I understand Codependence, I am working very hard to reverse my old methods, and have established boundries, this stopped most rages, and therefore life got better.  I started the physical exercise program at 24 hour fitness and life got better.  She followed me in the physical program, and her life got better, so much better that she seems to have found the new love of her life.  The problem is he has recently been married, and seems very happy with his recent Wife of about five years.  They are planning to retire soon, and move away.  My situation is much less than desirable for retirement.  I will not be able to subject myself to her abusive treatment full time, as I have always had my carreer to be my sanctuary, keeping me away from her Chaos for the most part.  I am a senior Professional Electrical Engineer, and do very well in the carreer areas earning a six figure salry, but cannot handle my home life with a chaotic dragon at home waiting to spew her fire at me. I do believe I have much to offer yet in my life, but the dragon is sinking my boat.

Art

[isilme]

she can be "herself" with them...meaning she can be whoever she wants to be...kind of a clean slate

This is about it in a nutshell with my BF - he gets a bit of an ego boost (I guess we all do) from being found attractive and fun by other people, and he'd compartmentalize parts of his life to be whatever was most attractive the newest person.  But he had trouble seeing where to draw the line, and trouble realizing that A) It's wrong to respond to this flirting flattery by pursing the new person if you are in a monogamous r/s B) Both the old and new person will get tired of this waffling and trying to more than one SO and will force a choice at some point C) Most people upon seeing the 'real' him in a BPD melt down will dissolve the 'friendship'.

For a while, he wasn't even open about having a GF.  It took pretty much me, his family and several friends who weren't as blind as I'd thought to convince him that his behavior was wrong. 

So yes, the clean slate and lack of history is probably the most attractive thing about any new person with whom your BPD SO becomes infatuated.

Art - is it possible that your W, being a bit of a shut in if I remember, really might not be aware of how her interactions with the husband in this couple might be taken?  How does the man's W react to your W?  Could you mention that you find it hurtful for her to compare you to him so unfavorably, and also mention that frankly if she continues she may offend the man's W? 

[jessicapuppy]

jessicapuppy,     I feel hurt, and have been really upset with myself for this last year.  I always wondered why I just seemed to be unable to force myself to assert my own protections.  Now that I understand Codependence, I am working very hard to reverse my old methods, and have established boundries, this stopped most rages, and therefore life got better.  I started the physical exercise program at 24 hour fitness and life got better.  She followed me in the physical program, and her life got better, so much better that she seems to have found the new love of her life.  The problem is he has recently been married, and seems very happy with his recent Wife of about five years.  They are planning to retire soon, and move away.  My situation is much less than desirable for retirement.  I will not be able to subject myself to her abusive treatment full time, as I have always had my carreer to be my sanctuary, keeping me away from her Chaos for the most part.  I am a senior Professional Electrical Engineer, and do very well in the carreer areas earning a six figure salry, but cannot handle my home life with a chaotic dragon at home waiting to spew her fire at me. I do believe I have much to offer yet in my life, but the dragon is sinking my boat.

Art

Well, I think you sound like a great catch!     Good for you for taking the initiative to exercise!

Your wife is very lucky to have you, but I do think that you need to do what makes you happy in life, as clearly your life has revolved around your wife for so long, and the end result is that you are not enjoying yours, if I have understood you correctly?

JP
x

[artman.1]

Isilme, and jessicapuppy,     is it possible that your W, being a bit of a shut in if I remember, really might not be aware of how her interactions with the husband in this couple might be taken? ---- Yes, and no, as she has not to my knowledge attempted to flirt with him.  She is friends with his Wife, and seems to like her a lot.  I believe she would be afraid to approach him.  It very well may be that she is infatuated with him, and is using him as her example to punish me in some rediculous way.  It is hurtful to me, and I am getting very close to jumping her sh*t in a very strong way.  She really needs to cease this sort of thing in a big way, or loose me for good.  I have really been toying with the idea of completely leaving her for a very long time, and with my work on myself progresses, I am becoming more intolerant of this kind of abuse than ever before.  I look at this as infidelity, even if she does not approach him, as she sure is thinking about it a lot.
     Could you mention that you find it hurtful for her to compare you to him so unfavorably, and also mention that frankly if she continues she may offend the man's W? ---- Yes I can, and may just go that much farther by telling her to stop or I will tell her friend what is going on.
     Your wife is very lucky to have you, but I do think that you need to do what makes you happy in life, as clearly your life has revolved around your wife for so long, and the end result is that you are not enjoying yours, if I have understood you correctly? ---- It is extremely obvious that my UBPDW hates me, and wishes I were deceased, by her own words.  I know she is Mentally Ill, and unreasonable, but I am sure she has no love in her heart for me, as I don't believe she even loves herself, as she was taught to hate herself by her Mom.  I believe her Mom was both BPD, and NPD, and exhibited several other Mental Illnesses.  She totally alienated her whole family, and died as a very lonely woman in a Nursing home with no visitors for the last several years of her life.  My UBPDW were her only visitors during that time, and we lived 1600 miles away, and could not visit but every couple of years.  I am sure that woman seriously abused her children as all of them are INSANE!  Anyway, I am not very happy in my life, and have been in disfunctional Relationships all my life.  The only love I have ever known was from my Mother, and of course for my children, whom I dearly love, and of course they are all grown up.  In some ways, I believe it was very lucky, that my children were all boys, and I was involved with their lives a lot.  My oldest son may have been affected by her BPD more than the younger two, as he seems to have a personality clash with her.  I would at least, once in my life, like to discover what it is like to experience real love in a proper RS.
      I have really had a pretty good, and successful life, as long as you don't consider my marriage.  I spent a lot of time doing self improvement with schooling, work, and family functions.  I guess I have had my share of depression, and pain from my private, and personal relationship with my UBPDW.  When I look back at my life, she seems to be my only regret, and that has nothing to do with my children, but rather with my personal RS with her.  Since she cheated those many years ago, and I have never attempted to address it with her, she does not actually know that I am aware of her affair, or that any cheating occurred.  This is my own problem to deal with at this time, but it is a major gap in our RS that I hold within myself, only because of her refusal of all intimacy.  I'm not sure you understand, but I feel very hurt that if she wants others, and witholds intimacy and love from me, and I am just her used and thrown away man.  It does make me feel worthless to be rejected like this, and I will have a lot to heal from.  My Codependence has crippled my life, and must be overcome.

Art 

[jessicapuppy]

 

Well, at the moment, I can honestly say I am happy in my own company, and not at all bothered about being in a relationship.

I am spending time being me.  I haven't really had a lot of time in my life, where I haven't either been in a relationship, or pining over one.  Now, I am doing neither and it feels great!

Do you think you could experience peace if you were to be alone for a while?  If you left the relationship, could you do things that you would enjoy, that are perhaps difficult to do whilst in your relationship?  Could you invest in yourself, so that when they next relationship comes along, you are in a healthy place to have one?

I can honestly say that I haven't felt this good, and balanced, for a very long time.  I would rather live alone and at one with myself, than with someone who made my life miserable.  Whereas, some people would rather be in a miserable relationship, than alone!

x

[artman.1]

jessicapuppy,
     Yes, I would be able to relax, and just be stable for awhile.  I do believe that would be good for me, rather than being enmeshed.

It does sound like things are well for you now.

Art

[jessicapuppy]

I'm getting there Art   

I'm not blind enough to think that I'm completely over things, and I dread having to see him again, in case it stirs up the hurt again, but I think I'm certainly making good progress.

I didn't have as many years invested as you do, though.  I understand the size of any decision you make to change your life and move on without her. 

JP
x

[artman.1]

jessicapuppy,     I can see just how difficult it will be.  It is inevitable that you must have to see him sometime in the future.  If you prepare yourself for that day, you may get through it without such pain from past experiences.  I know that will become my fate one day.
     I did say something to my UBPDW about being so Infatuated with her friends Husband, and told her to stop comparing me to another man she admires without really knowing him, and using him to humiliate me.  She dysregulated some, and then stopped mentioning him anymore.  I think I will bring it up again in front of her friend, if she starts back up.  If it does nothing else, it will surely embarrass her, which she really needs for all this inappropriate behavior. 
     I have gone from ready to pull the plug tomorrow, to Thinking I should stay and see if things can get to a livable place so many times I have just confused myself.  Yes, this is hard to do, and especially hard for an only partially recovered Codependent.
     I do hope all your days will be happier, and more fulfilling than the one before.

Art

[sometimesnow]

Hi Art
I am going to recommend a book and a resource. Inner Bonding by Margaret Paul.
This book goes through all the inner reasons we react as we do and ways to heal those. i am working on it. it is a add on to CODA, same concepts. See if that helps.
Its all about your reaction and what you can change and do and how you are triggered by this.
kat

[xeon]

Art, that's a toughie... it fits into the whole black hole of need that will never be filled.  I really hate when my wife says things like "I love you but... I wished you had more drive like Bill"... Bill is just a name I pulled out of the air BTW.  It USED to make me really mad, but now that I've had time to look at if for what it is, it make it easier not to get so angry... it crosses a personal boundary to boot.  Along with her talking about other men in general in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable doesn't jive with me anymore.  It stinks being compared to someone else by our spouse as if we aren't good enough.  Luckily I'm pretty comfy with myself and after thinking about it, it really is her problem and mental illness manifesting in different ways.  It really is hard not taking things personal that feel very personal...

Art, keep on growing and I hope you find some resolution by your retirement time.