pwBP says "You can choose the hobby" and then after I choose, he withholds it

[Think About It...]

Hello--
 I am feeling frustrated with a "habit" that is building bettween me and my partner. I am playing a role in this---going along with it and not being assertive.---
  There are computer games at his house which we soemtimes play when I see him. They are at his place, and he has played with them all, so it's not like if I choose one, we are then not gonna play a new one he hasn't played yet. He has played all of them.
  The habit or pattern is this---He will say "Go ahead SHatra choose a game"---I choose one, and he automatically says "No, we'll play this othe rone instead". At first I thought I was reading too much into it, but now I notice it happens each time. He will offer me a choice, and when I choose, he picks something else.  Last night, I chose A after he offered me the choice, and he chose B.  It's not that he doesn't like A, or isn't in the mood for it.  I feel irritated, as if he offers a choice and then takes "control".
    I wonder if I might try SET--
Support---I want to enjoy the game with you
Empathy---I know you like to play the game you want to choose
Truth---I notice when you say I can choose one, we wind up playing something different...would you like to go ahead and choose one then?
   
   I would rather compromise, and sometimes choose one and other times have him choose one--that would be great. I feel frustrated with this "game" though---he pretends to let me  have "control" and then takes control.

Shatra

[shatra]

Hello--
 I am feeling frustrated with a "habit" that is building bettween me and my partner. I am playing a role in this---going along with it and not being assertive.---
  There are computer games at his house which we soemtimes play when I see him. They are at his place, and he has played with them all, so it's not like if I choose one, we are then not gonna play a new one he hasn't played yet. He has played all of them.
  The habit or pattern is this---He will say "Go ahead SHatra choose a game"---I choose one, and he automatically says "No, we'll play this othe rone instead". At first I thought I was reading too much into it, but now I notice it happens each time. He will offer me a choice, and when I choose, he picks something else.  Last night, I chose A after he offered me the choice, and he chose B.  It's not that he doesn't like A, or isn't in the mood for it.  I feel irritated, as if he offers a choice and then takes "control".
    I wonder if I might try SET--
Support---I want to enjoy the game with you
Empathy---I know you like to play the game you want to choose
Truth---I notice when you say I can choose one, we wind up playing something different...would you like to go ahead and choose one then?
   
   I would rather compromise, and sometimes choose one and other times have him choose one--that would be great. I feel frustrated with this "game" though---he pretends to let me  have "control" and then takes control.

Shatra

[an0ught]

Hi shatra,

would this not be more a case for
   DEARMAN - asking for specific behavior change
or
   a boundary - not tolerated disrespect of your choice?

Can you think it through from that angle?

[real lady]

Hi Shatra; my BPDh is somewhat similar with movies; I set a honestly let him know that I do want to watch a movie with him and "what kind" of movie I may be interested in watching. I let him pick; if I suggest, "my kind" of movie, he watches it grudgingly and then comments "glad that's over"...If I would say THAT to his movie; he would rage at me as if I had said something personal about him.

If that were to happen to me; I would ask the truth question you posed...Truth---I notice when you say I can choose one, we wind up playing something different...would you like to go ahead and choose one then?

I would set a boundary to NOT put yourself in that position; it seems like he is getting a "control jolly" out of it. He ASKS you and then takes your decision and throws it out; very disrespectful. I am having to set boundaries with the movies. It is working; saying nothing to a BPD sometimes is best.

[LoveNotWar]

You are all bigger people than me. I'd just say no thanks, I don't want to play.  

I hate video games anyway. I still like the old fashioned board games. 

LNW

[Steph]

You are all bigger people than me. I'd just say no thanks, I don't want to play.  

LNW

 There is alot of truth in this.

He IS playing a game, literally...and not playing is the answer.

Him: Go ahead...Choose

You: No thanks. I dont care. You decide.

  Since you know its a game, stop playing

[shatra]

Hi---
 Love Not War, I "do" care---I care about the process (being able to choose a movie at least part of the time, so it's not one-sided and then I feel frustrated) and I care about the content (sometimes there is a certain game I would prefer to play, other times I can tell him it's fiine, he can go ahead and choose).
  Reallady, yes I can identify. I once watched a movie with a pwBP, that I had chosen, in their home...they asked if I liked it and said not really , and they blew up and got angry! As if it was a slight against them!

  Anought, good idea re: Dearman. here is my idea---
Describe---It seems that when we play the game, you offer the choice to me and then we wind up watching your choice
Express---I feel upset and confused by this
Assert---I would like to actually choose the game at least once in a while
Reinforce---(not sure how this would help him, other than improve the relationship, making it more equitable)
Mindful---Don't get distracted by his histrionic reaction "I am not a controlling person, I do so much for others" or his gaslightiing "I don't always choose the game" (which isn't true)
Act Confident---keep good posture and eye contact, no matter what
Negotiate---You can choose the game most of the time, I would just like to choose it once in a while. Or, if you chooose the game, can I choose the restaurant?

Shatra

[LoveNotWar]

Shatra, if it's important to you to choose then it makes sense to me why you would want to find that compromise. And I see where we can't go a lifetime giving up everything we want.  ;p

Why oh why can't we just say let's take turns choosing you go first. I choose next time. ?

I've actually tried this and it worked...till it didn't.   . 

[an0ught]

Hi Shatra,

I think this is a case of assertiveness and boundaries. Like Steph said letting him play games getting away with it is just feeding the dysfunction.

The habit or pattern is this---He will say "Go ahead SHatra choose a game"---I choose one, and he automatically says "No, we'll play this othe rone instead".

So we are clear - he has offered you a choice and you need to hold him accountable for that.

The boundary protection is easy - you don't play if he does not stick to his word. A relatively low price to pay for protecting yourself from being gamed. The upside from stopping game playing is big. The cost-benefit is a no-brainer.

But of course it is also worth to explore the option to directly ask for a changed behavior. Doing that will have the benefit that any boundary action will be better understood, limited drama (are boundaries ever w/o?) and maybe even resulting ultimately in desired outcome after the detour through learning the hard way. So let's look at DEARMAN

Describe---It seems that when we play the game, you offer the choice to me and then we wind up watching your choice
Express---I feel upset and confused by this
Assert---I would like to actually choose the game at least once in a while
Reinforce---(not sure how this would help him, other than improve the relationship, making it more equitable)
Mindful---Don't get distracted by his histrionic reaction "I am not a controlling person, I do so much for others" or his gaslightiing "I don't always choose the game" (which isn't true)
Act Confident---keep good posture and eye contact, no matter what
Negotiate---You can choose the game most of the time, I would just like to choose it once in a while. Or, if you chooose the game, can I choose the restaurant?

How assertive is "at least once in a while" ? Assertiveness is about being clear - having almost a black and white message. You are focusing on something specific and you are very clear what it is. So in this case you are focusing on the case that he has offered you the choice and nothing more. Your request: He offers something - you want him to stick to it.

Describe---It seems that when we play the game, you offer the choice to me and when I choose you counter my choice with suggestion of your own.
Express---I feel upset and confused by this
Assert---When I choose a game I want to play it and when you offer me the choice I want that choice to be taken serious.
Reinforce---It is important to me that my choices are respected and I can rely on your word when you ask me to choose.
Mindful---Don't get distracted by his histrionic reaction "I am not a controlling person, I do so much for others" or his gaslightiing "I don't always choose the game" (which isn't true)
   - Validate: Sometime playing a game you don't feel like can be boring etc.. When offering a favor sometimes requires work...
Act Confident---keep good posture and eye contact, no matter what
Negotiate---
   - We don't have to play the same game the whole evening. Of course while playing a game we focus on that game and don't get distracted too much by what other games we could do.
   - I can not make you play my chosen game but that goes the other way too. If we can't agree it is also ok not to play.

In this case if he agrees in principle if possible I would then also push for a concrete date where you choose.

[momtario]

My husband does this over what to have for dinner, or what restaurant or store we are going to go to, etc. It drives me up the wall.

I stopped playing, and that drives him up the wall. He gets really upset that I refuse to make decisions now, but if he is just going to overturn my decision to prove he can, I might as well take the reigns and make him choose.

[mitchell16]

My BPD GF has done the same thing with resrurants. It start with her asking what I want to eat and I might say Pizza, She will say no she dont feel like that. Being that Im not a picky eater I will the start making suggestions and she will shoot down everyone one for her to then come back in the end and say Pizza. But I also notice that this behvior only starts about teh same time that she is starting to pick arguments which then leads up to her having to take a trip alone out of town for "space" or telling me she needs space away from me. Or she will use it to put me down and say I cant make a decision. Maybe I missed it but does anyone have an answer to this behavior?

[shatra]

Hi
 Anought, good analysis of DEARMAN.
Momtario, do you know why your husband gets upset if you refuse to make the choice?
Mitchell, it sounds like she is wanting control, and that's why she asks for your input and then rejects every solution...like you, I would be curious how we can handle this

THanks
Shatra

[rise_up]

Hi, i also have a very similar situation with the restaurants. while my partner and i are in the car, she asks me, "what are your thoughts for dinner?"
i say, "im craving (whatever). how about (name)?"
she will make a face and dismiss it. or she will say, i dont feel like it.
she will do her best to dismiss my ideas, but not bring her ideas to the table.
i will list off at least 3 other potential restaurants. and that would just get the silent treatment. when i ask, "well what do you want to eat then?" she will respond with, "i dunno".
--frustration festering-- it's like she shoves the responsibility of choosing a place on me, but at the same time wants to control the choice...

lately, i have just been very forthcoming with my needs. instead of asking, "how about (name)?" i say, "id like to have (name)." it gives her less room to wiggle around and dismiss me.

[momtario]

I would imagine it either has to do with my not playing his game, or with projection- he has said he doesn't want to choose something I won't want to do/ eat/ buy. But if I do choose something he shoots it down, so like you I figure, why bother?

[schwing]

Hi Shatra,

I second An0ught's assessment that this is a case of "assertiveness and boundaries."

As I see it, your partner is having his cake and eating it too.  He gets the credit for "offering" you a choice to do what you would like.  But then he completely ignores your choice.  My only concern about this scenario is that it is a way of invalidating you.  Why give you a choice if he really only wants to play whatever it is he wants?  Why not just simply tell you what he wants to play?

I would say that before you apply the DEARMAN, decide what it is you wish to accomplish.

Do you want to understand why he does what he does?  Then you might need to consider that he doesn't even consciously understand why he does it.

Or do you want to simply break this "habit"?

Reinforce---(not sure how this would help him, other than improve the relationship, making it more equitable)

The way I would "reinforce" is to give him a reward when he allows you to break this "habit."  For example, if he actually goes with your choice of game.  After a while of playing, you can allow him to choose the next game.

I don't think you should shoot for making the choosing of games equitable.  I think you should shoot for getting him to stop asking you to choose when he has not the intention of going with your choice.  It is more worthwhile to get him to communicate in a clear way than to make sure you two get equal choice in choosing games.

Mindful---Don't get distracted by his histrionic reaction "I am not a controlling person, I do so much for others" or his gaslightiing "I don't always choose the game" (which isn't true)

Also I think being "mindful" is not just bracing yourself for a negative response. But also being aware of how this dialogue affects you and makes you feel.  I have already pointed out that you may have felt somewhat invalidated all this time whenever he ignores your choices.  You might find that he carry some resentment for all those previous occasions.  You may need to be aware that you might feel some anger.  But also you might want to make sure that you do not back down from asserting yourself.  If he chooses to have a histrionic reaction, you do not have to subject yourself to that.  Nor do you need to accept his gas lighting.  My suggestion is if he does dysregulate, just no longer bite: when he offers you to choose, refuse to choose.

Best wishes, Schwing

[an0ught]

Do you want to understand why he does what he does?  Then you might need to consider that he doesn't even consciously understand why he does it.

This is a safe road. And at least for me personally as someone who likes to understand and think a really safe road. It provided the initial soothing and I liked it. Still more often preferred than needed. 

Or do you want to simply break this "habit"?

A road that leads to change. Decidedly less comfortable.