Broke NC, she's into me, we danced (literally): Back in the game?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I sent her an Email with the song I posted here earlier. It's a song about being a victim of unreturned love of sorts. It's like a good end song for what I've gone through and no one was better to share it with than my exBPDgf. I really thought she wouldn't reply or the reply would be short with a : "sad". Which is what she used to do. Anyway, I didn't want to engage but I did. She lured me in and met up with me in a coffee shop around the corner. Weird because I was going to go there any way so I was going to run into her regardless it seems. I was very nervous. After all the run-ins I've had with her it's so hard to believe these are coincidences.

We talked for many hours over coffee, tea, walk in the park, and wine. Equipped with all my BPD knowledge, every single line she uttered was confirming how BPD she was. Whether she talked to a friend on the phone, how closed she was about topics, how manipulative, EVERYTHING! I now have absolutely no doubt in all my body and mind she is a BPD! Congratulations to me! I saw her differently this time and more in context.

I told her everything about how she made me feel. At first I didn't want to show my vulnerability but I told myself I can only be truthful and honest. I swear that if there was ever moment with someone pushing info deep into another person's psyche it was this one. When I looked her with wide determined eyes about to tear and with no hesitation and all confidence in the world, told her how much I'd loved her, how much I hurt and how I did everything and I could do no more. That made me feel good as I said my peace and relived myself of the things I wanted to say but never got to leave a strong imprint. It was like a punch in the face. But truthfully, I think it could have been  bit confusing for her. She wasn't sure how to process my feelings I think. She probably sees availability. She tried making excuses but I told her it's not about her. She asked about my plans later last night. I tried being vague as I wasn't ready for more stalking but I also can't lie so I caved in. I ended up walking her back to her place but said my goodbyes and used declined to use the washroom at her place and used the one at the restaurant opposite. She asked if it was weird, I said I didn't know but let's just not. She didn't give up, she called after and asked if I'd wait for her and she can walk me back. One thing to the other, seemingly all harmless, I ended up at her place as she 'innocently' started seducing me. Asking me what to wear, showing me her hair, putting on her heels, tights.. I knew what was going on and treated it very casually. I put on my music and started dancing. I was feeling good. Probably because I said how I felt to her face and got validated in some way. That's all I had wanted. To be REALLY heard. And I felt good because everything I knew about BPD was confirmed. And I felt good because I knew exactly what she was talking about when she was describing her feelings and I told her how I understood. I asked her to tell me if my following description of her feelings aren't accurate. She couldn't disagree they were right on. I won a few times.

She messaged me later that night saying she wasn't having fun at the bar she was at and asked if I was at the place I told her I was at. I ignored but knew she would still show up. And she did! Well, there were no girls I was interested in and I wanted to dance with someone. We ended up dancing and flirting and she kissed me. Well, that was that. I literally did the BPD dance.

I don't think I'm emotionally invested right now. I'm more creeped by the whole thing. She's wonderful and we had fun but I know her love is fleeting and I told her that. She described to me how she felt during our relationship cycle(s?) and it's like everything you guys described. Everything I'd read. How she went from me, to another guy and back to me.

The only thing I didn't win is boundaries. She's persistent. I'm available, she's fun and beautiful. As soon as she walked in yesterday night my friend said, "Wow! Look! She's a hot one walking in!" I looked and I was like "That's my ex I told you would probably stalk me tonight". Him: "The tall one?" Me: "Yup" Him: "Not the shorter one?" Me: "Nope". Him "Wow"

Haha. So I have to put up with a gorgeous and fun girl wanting me so badly. She flirted, seduced, got attention from everyone. I saw all the tricks yet I was having more fun than anyone. She just kept returning to me on the dance floor.

Not sure what's to come out of this. She want's 'friends to start'. I told her we're too different and her emotions are fleeting and mine are constant. I guess I need to draw my boundaries. She's broken some yesterday but I guess I allowed some fun. I definitely didn't feel like the start of something hopeful. I just thought I'd take it for what it is. A good time with a girl I'd fallen head over heels with.

[nylonsquid]

I sent her an Email with the song I posted here earlier. It's a song about being a victim of unreturned love of sorts. It's like a good end song for what I've gone through and no one was better to share it with than my exBPDgf. I really thought she wouldn't reply or the reply would be short with a : "sad". Which is what she used to do. Anyway, I didn't want to engage but I did. She lured me in and met up with me in a coffee shop around the corner. Weird because I was going to go there any way so I was going to run into her regardless it seems. I was very nervous. After all the run-ins I've had with her it's so hard to believe these are coincidences.

We talked for many hours over coffee, tea, walk in the park, and wine. Equipped with all my BPD knowledge, every single line she uttered was confirming how BPD she was. Whether she talked to a friend on the phone, how closed she was about topics, how manipulative, EVERYTHING! I now have absolutely no doubt in all my body and mind she is a BPD! Congratulations to me! I saw her differently this time and more in context.

I told her everything about how she made me feel. At first I didn't want to show my vulnerability but I told myself I can only be truthful and honest. I swear that if there was ever moment with someone pushing info deep into another person's psyche it was this one. When I looked her with wide determined eyes about to tear and with no hesitation and all confidence in the world, told her how much I'd loved her, how much I hurt and how I did everything and I could do no more. That made me feel good as I said my peace and relived myself of the things I wanted to say but never got to leave a strong imprint. It was like a punch in the face. But truthfully, I think it could have been  bit confusing for her. She wasn't sure how to process my feelings I think. She probably sees availability. She tried making excuses but I told her it's not about her. She asked about my plans later last night. I tried being vague as I wasn't ready for more stalking but I also can't lie so I caved in. I ended up walking her back to her place but said my goodbyes and used declined to use the washroom at her place and used the one at the restaurant opposite. She asked if it was weird, I said I didn't know but let's just not. She didn't give up, she called after and asked if I'd wait for her and she can walk me back. One thing to the other, seemingly all harmless, I ended up at her place as she 'innocently' started seducing me. Asking me what to wear, showing me her hair, putting on her heels, tights.. I knew what was going on and treated it very casually. I put on my music and started dancing. I was feeling good. Probably because I said how I felt to her face and got validated in some way. That's all I had wanted. To be REALLY heard. And I felt good because everything I knew about BPD was confirmed. And I felt good because I knew exactly what she was talking about when she was describing her feelings and I told her how I understood. I asked her to tell me if my following description of her feelings aren't accurate. She couldn't disagree they were right on. I won a few times.

She messaged me later that night saying she wasn't having fun at the bar she was at and asked if I was at the place I told her I was at. I ignored but knew she would still show up. And she did! Well, there were no girls I was interested in and I wanted to dance with someone. We ended up dancing and flirting and she kissed me. Well, that was that. I literally did the BPD dance.

I don't think I'm emotionally invested right now. I'm more creeped by the whole thing. She's wonderful and we had fun but I know her love is fleeting and I told her that. She described to me how she felt during our relationship cycle(s?) and it's like everything you guys described. Everything I'd read. How she went from me, to another guy and back to me.

The only thing I didn't win is boundaries. She's persistent. I'm available, she's fun and beautiful. As soon as she walked in yesterday night my friend said, "Wow! Look! She's a hot one walking in!" I looked and I was like "That's my ex I told you would probably stalk me tonight". Him: "The tall one?" Me: "Yup" Him: "Not the shorter one?" Me: "Nope". Him "Wow"

Haha. So I have to put up with a gorgeous and fun girl wanting me so badly. She flirted, seduced, got attention from everyone. I saw all the tricks yet I was having more fun than anyone. She just kept returning to me on the dance floor.

Not sure what's to come out of this. She want's 'friends to start'. I told her we're too different and her emotions are fleeting and mine are constant. I guess I need to draw my boundaries. She's broken some yesterday but I guess I allowed some fun. I definitely didn't feel like the start of something hopeful. I just thought I'd take it for what it is. A good time with a girl I'd fallen head over heels with.

[bunnyrabit]

Bad squid, bad! 
Seriously though, I think you know what you're setting yourself up for dude.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[beyondbelief]

She did not break any boundaries, you did not enforce them.  Boundaries are about our behaviors not theirs.  If you want to restart a r/s with her then you are probably on the right track.  If not then it is up to you to make sure it doesn't happen.

Either way is fine and your choice.  What do you want to happen?

[VWCCDriver]

It's good you see what she is, but I hope you don't fall back into her web. Protect yourself. You let your guard down and you will only be hurt.
As you know, nothing good ever comes from dating a BPD. You fall in love with their illusion, then they break you. Best thing is to avoid all the drama and just nc all the way. It would be a very volatile friendship/relationship. There is never any stability with them. It's like living your life strapped to a bomb, that will blow up if you try to diffuse it.

[redfeather]

Hi,
Hope everything turns out but in my honest opinion we all know how this part of the cycle goes. The other guy did something wrong got too close perhaps and she dumped him/split him back.
She hasnt heard anything from you and silence drives a borderline crazy(er).
So over past few weeks even though you have been no contact    she has been liking things on facebook then she set you up with returning of the paintbrushes. Then she kicked it up several notches with the STALKING when she started showing up in your neighborhood.
So end result of all these classic BPD behaviors? She successfully re-engaged you.
You say you are aware of what comes next but nylon squid are you?
Its the push part of it, the time yet  again she devalues you and throws you back under the bus. That wasnt much fun the first time was it?
Whatever she says take it with a grain of salt. look to her actions and keep in mind someone else is suffering now because of this "hot" woman.
Take care of you first and foremost!  Hi!

[bunnyrabit]

She did not break any boundaries, you did not enforce them.  Boundaries are about our behaviors not theirs.  If you want to restart a r/s with her then you are probably on the right track.  If not then it is up to you to make sure it doesn't happen.
Either way is fine and your choice.

Now I'm confused. How is it ever a good idea to re engage with a BPD?

[beyondbelief]

She did not break any boundaries, you did not enforce them.  Boundaries are about our behaviors not theirs.  If you want to restart a r/s with her then you are probably on the right track.  If not then it is up to you to make sure it doesn't happen.
Either way is fine and your choice.

Now I'm confused. How is it ever a good idea to re engage with a BPD?

Everyone has their own goals and come here for support in reaching them.  That is why we have different boards.  For instance the Leaving board is dedicated to helping members disengage.  The Staying board is dedicated to helping members improve their r/s (check out the link at the top for some success stories).  The Undecided board is for members trying to figure out what they want.

To engage or disengage is a very personal decision and can only be made by the individuals who are living it.  Each member makes their own decision our place is offer the best support we can no matter what they decide.

[bunnyrabit]

She did not break any boundaries, you did not enforce them.  Boundaries are about our behaviors not theirs.  If you want to restart a r/s with her then you are probably on the right track.  If not then it is up to you to make sure it doesn't happen.
Either way is fine and your choice.

Now I'm confused. How is it ever a good idea to re engage with a BPD?

Everyone has their own goals and come here for support in reaching them.  That is why we have different boards.  For instance the Leaving board is dedicated to helping members disengage.  The Staying board is dedicated to helping members improve their r/s (check out the link at the top for some success stories).  The Undecided board is for members trying to figure out what they want.

To engage or disengage is a very personal decision and can only be made by the individuals who are living it.  Each member makes their own decision our place is offer the best support we can no matter what they decide.

Yes, I see. It was just posted on the wrong board , good that you moved it then. 

[oletimefeelin]

Just be careful.  To be successful you need to maintain an air of indifference.  If you are on this board, my guess is you care A LOT.  

[nylonsquid]

Just be careful.  To be successful you need to maintain an air of indifference.  If you are on this board, my guess is you care A LOT. 

Redfeather- You know my full story I see

Oletimefeelin-
Her big eyes of idealization were empty to me now; I am just supply.
I have something strong on my side: Awareness.
I dumped my hurt on to her and I'm without the weight I've carried through NC.
What she will give me is a love that is fleeting.
I am not invested emotionally now.
I am not going to start a relationship nor do I want one.
What she feels now will turn around and I will be the devil and she will set off to hurt me by sleeping with someone else.
I am aware.

What do I want? Not a relationship. I'm on the dating scene. I don't want her to sabotage or step over my boundaries. I need to hold fort. However, this is a seductress/temptress that I fell for (I swear it's for her personality though) and I now see beyond what I couldn't see clearly. I see everything now. Makes absolute sense. Again, what do I want? Nothing, but I might not fight her off all time. Maybe this grey friendship thing could still work for me? Not sure. As long as she's distant because I know she'll want to be controlling.

PS- I'd say I'm fairly confident and good looking and I can get pretty girls but I'm not one who will say yes to any girl who wants to jump in. I've said no many times before. Matter of fact, I have said no more than I have said yes. I need to have a deeper connection. I was told Im sensual in bed many times and maybe I'm more like women and I give emotionally in bed. I just can't do it if I don't feel right. Something about this girl was pretty fantastic. I saw her intelligence, her putting on a strong act to cover weakness, loved her vulnerability deep inside (it's easy for me to see someone's insecurities and I strangely admire that, it sometimes means they can grow), her artistic sense, and her personality. I just couldn't for the sake of me believe someone can be that insecure and crazy. And I always thought that people can change and get better. I guess it's because I always look at myself first and grow that I expect others to at least have the ability. I guess pwBPD can't grow.

I said: Maybe there's someone that is right for you, wouldn't you then want to change the repetitive behaviour to keep the guy?
She: That's just me. It's my personality. I can't change.
Me: Not with that attitude.
She: Laughs

Case closed.

[oletimefeelin]

How tall is this girl btw?  You mentioned she's tall.  Mine is 6'1.

[Clearmind]

The only thing I didn't win is boundaries. She's persistent. I'm available, she's fun and beautiful. As soon as she walked in yesterday night my friend said, "Wow! Look! She's a hot one walking in!" I looked and I was like "That's my ex I told you would probably stalk me tonight". Him: "The tall one?" Me: "Yup" Him: "Not the shorter one?" Me: "Nope". Him "Wow"

This paragraph is validating however I think we can all agree it does not sustain a relationship. Relationships are not just about looks - its so much more.

It sounds like you have rationalized it Nylon - where are you now with it all? Are you still in contact? Hoping that the relationship will be rekindled.

[OnceConfused]

Squid:

The biggest lesson I learned from BPD is that beauty is truly skin deep. Though the outside appearance can attract us toward each other, but the inside beauty is the one that keeps the rs around. WHen I first met the xbpgf I wondered why such a beautiful divorce, well educated can only hang onto her men, 6 months each. BPD, that was why.

So the key is not that you now can use all the tools here to deal with her, but really is what lessons you have learned. Only you can answer that. All the tools you have learned here DO NOT CHANGE HER, they serve only for you as a way to COPE. I mean to COPE, not to live with. Will you find happiness by coping? I sincerely doubt that.

[nylonsquid]

The only thing I didn't win is boundaries. She's persistent. I'm available, she's fun and beautiful. As soon as she walked in yesterday night my friend said, "Wow! Look! She's a hot one walking in!" I looked and I was like "That's my ex I told you would probably stalk me tonight". Him: "The tall one?" Me: "Yup" Him: "Not the shorter one?" Me: "Nope". Him "Wow"

This paragraph is validating however I think we can all agree it does not sustain a relationship. Relationships are not just about looks - its so much more.

Clearmind- what do you mean by 'this paragraph is validating'? To make things clear, I acknowledge my exBPDgf is beautiful but she was never my 'type' of look. Though looks matter to an extent (everyone has a type) it's her personality that won me over and her looks turned perfect for me. Some one athletic is not my type, neither is one who's my height, nor one with curly hair. I simply fell for her and then I loved everything about her: Her height, her body, her hair.. anything I didn't like I thought was perfect. Also, I've said no to many pretty girls in my past because I just didn't connect with them. I feel like I'm cheating myself.

It sounds like you have rationalized it Nylon - where are you now with it all? Are you still in contact? Hoping that the relationship will be rekindled.

I haven't had contact since. I probably won't contact her. I'm moving forward and meeting new girls. Nice ones. Just going out and being happy. She can be part of it I guess if she chooses to not be a party pooper or a poison. I don't hope the relationship would be rekindled.

Emotionally, I'm not there for her. I think she will want a relationship from me which to me is a doomed affair. I'm telling myself now that I might be okay with being intimate if it feels okay but knowing me, I probably won't do it because I've already had more than one chance and I didn't do it. She played seductress in so many ways in one day. She had to throw herself at me and kiss me to get anything and I didn't kiss back. I also know that it's not that easy for her to do because of her fear of rejection. Just felt wrong. I can't plan how I'd feel but I do know how to protect myself and that's by setting boundaries. I also think that will be a tough one to get with her. I think she'll ask for lots then unleash hell if it doesn't go her way by blaming then probably going out of her way to 'hurt' me by sleeping with others. I should be in a 'meh' place where I'm indifferent, otherwise I'm backing off.

[nylonsquid]

Just be careful.  To be successful you need to maintain an air of indifference.  If you are on this board, my guess is you care A LOT.  

I was on the Detaching board but SBalance put this thread here for better responses.

I do care for her. Doesn't mean I want her for myself. I hope she gets better though I doubt it.

[nylonsquid]

Squid:

The biggest lesson I learned from BPD is that beauty is truly skin deep. Though the outside appearance can attract us toward each other, but the inside beauty is the one that keeps the rs around. WHen I first met the xbpgf I wondered why such a beautiful divorce, well educated can only hang onto her men, 6 months each. BPD, that was why.

So the key is not that you now can use all the tools here to deal with her, but really is what lessons you have learned. Only you can answer that. All the tools you have learned here DO NOT CHANGE HER, they serve only for you as a way to COPE. I mean to COPE, not to live with. Will you find happiness by coping? I sincerely doubt that.

I use all the tools here for awareness. This has been something I've wanted for a long time now and I only got it yesterday. My emotions are clear and my head is clear. Never been clearer since I started the relationship. I'm not coping with her. We can't be together. I'm not sad about it. I feel good

[nylonsquid]

How tall is this girl btw?  You mentioned she's tall.  Mine is 6'1.

5'10 without the high platform heels she was sporting that night

[nylonsquid]

Hi,
Hope everything turns out but in my honest opinion we all know how this part of the cycle goes. The other guy did something wrong got too close perhaps and she dumped him/split him back.
She hasnt heard anything from you and silence drives a borderline crazy(er).
So over past few weeks even though you have been no contact   she has been liking things on facebook then she set you up with returning of the paintbrushes. Then she kicked it up several notches with the STALKING when she started showing up in your neighborhood.
So end result of all these classic BPD behaviors? She successfully re-engaged you.
You say you are aware of what comes next but nylon squid are you?
Its the push part of it, the time yet  again she devalues you and throws you back under the bus. That wasnt much fun the first time was it?
Whatever she says take it with a grain of salt. look to her actions and keep in mind someone else is suffering now because of this "hot" woman.
Take care of you first and foremost!  Hi!

Thank you Redfeather! I agree with EVERYTHING you said! I did take everything with a grain of salt. I actually did not believe her words nor her lustful eyes. It was a confused person that I saw. Someone with skewed perception of the world. I didn't feel sorry this time, I kind of felt strangely detached. I couldn't get her to see what she's doing and how big of a wall she put up. It's not something I see a future with and I find it limiting as a human being. It's almost inhuman. Don't know how to describe it but I'm uninterested in people who can't grow. It's a waste of time and friendship.

Also, you're right.. I don't know what's coming next and I don't know how ready I am. I feel okay with it now and I guess I'm restarting NC until she makes contact. I'll see then. I definitely can see her behavior clearly now, not just with me but with her friends. It's not very nice.

[redfeather]

Nylonsquid,
She isnt inhuman she is actually quite human but mentally ill. Incredibly mentally ill even though she is packaged on this earth presently as a "hot" woman... Someone once suggested to look at a borderline as a cardboard cutout of a human.
I mean they look human occupy human body but they are missing some very key emotional components that make us so very beautifully human and seperates us from some creatures say jellyfish. Though that may be an insult to jellyfish!
At any rate here is the deal. You are playing with fire here. I completely understand you wanting to get her back. Mine like yours won the lottery in the physical looks department. Everyone always told me how LUCKY I was to have her. Oh boy.
You know what my response was? "Everybody wants her, BUT NOBODY  WANTS TO PUT UP WITH HER!"... To that statement everyone responded Oh I will take her, she is so hot blah blah blah.
Nylonsquid they are valuing her as I once did which is initially on her looks. But then she showed me what she was really about back in January when I caught her in a lie and sent her packing.
Yours and my story is so similar it is frightening!
This is not a game you want to be back in. You are dancing with the devil and I am not being overly dramatic when I say that!
 She has re-engaged you for a reason.
Something went wrong in LoverLand and she came to you because you werent playing the game according to the RULES.
See most NONs once dumped on their heads IMMEDIATELY go all out trying to get the pwBPD to re-engage. These frantic/desperate attempts to re-engage the pwBPD after initial breakup communicates to the pwBPD DESPERATION/ I GOT THEM HOOKED!
So you NylonSquid did what I have done which is go 100% NO CONTACT for months. This is not standard NON behavior and drives the BPD crazy.
So she re-engaged you. and has been successful. But she is and always will be (until her looks fade or she gets help) a ONE TRICK PONY just like mine. Hot body? yessiree, fabulous face?you betcha! Whole sackful of crazy and a HOT MESS?   roger that nylonsquid.
She cant win a game you refuse to participate in. She has shown you her true colors believe me when I tell you you cant out crazy crazy!  Hi!

[hithere]

Your story sounds very similar to mine a couple of weekends ago...NC for 12 days then broke it. Spent the weekend together, went out dancing Sat. night, she looked hot as usual, total sleazy dancing but with only eyes (and kisses) for me.  Makes you feel wonderful.  But then having coffee Sun. night I again realized we had no future, too much BPD pain over the three years we lived together.  I am painted black to her friends and family...just too many mountains to climb and I really can't handle the total chaos that is her life.  NC now again for 7 days.  I also care for her and wish it could be different.

Good Luck if you decide to re-engage, maybe this time you will be able to handle the storm.