Back to Fantasyland with ex-Fiancee

[Think About It...]

Six months.  That's how long her supposed "no contact" with her ex fiancee lasted after I confronted her last October about her secret texts and phone calls with him.     

Since then, he's texted twice to try to reconnect.  She informed me each time and didn't respond to him.  At the same time, our relationship has struggled more than in the prior six months.  Then, this morning she informed me that he's now asked her to be a facebook friend and that she "has to" agree to it. 

At least she told me about it.  I've got to really think over whether I can live with this.  Considering how their communication escalated last time--secret texts and phone calls (literally starting when I walked out the door), and a planned future meeting ("for lunch" and supposedly with W's mom along as chaperone)--I'm already anxious about this facebook friend business.   

He supposedly didn't have a computer last fall (and I found no evidence of any computer communication).  Guess he rectified that since the cell phone became off limits.   

At least he lives a 1,000 miles away and seems to have turned out a complete loser, too poor to even get divorced from his estranged wife. 

I've got to think this through . . . again.

[briefcase]

Six months.  That's how long her supposed "no contact" with her ex fiancee lasted after I confronted her last October about her secret texts and phone calls with him.     

Since then, he's texted twice to try to reconnect.  She informed me each time and didn't respond to him.  At the same time, our relationship has struggled more than in the prior six months.  Then, this morning she informed me that he's now asked her to be a facebook friend and that she "has to" agree to it. 

At least she told me about it.  I've got to really think over whether I can live with this.  Considering how their communication escalated last time--secret texts and phone calls (literally starting when I walked out the door), and a planned future meeting ("for lunch" and supposedly with W's mom along as chaperone)--I'm already anxious about this facebook friend business.   

He supposedly didn't have a computer last fall (and I found no evidence of any computer communication).  Guess he rectified that since the cell phone became off limits.   

At least he lives a 1,000 miles away and seems to have turned out a complete loser, too poor to even get divorced from his estranged wife. 

I've got to think this through . . . again.

[Steph]

 It is completely ok to tell her no..stating the reasons you just gave us, from 6 months ago.

Why would it be ok?

[briefcase]

Thanks, Steph.  I know and I'm thinking about it.  It's basically what I did last fall . . . and he's back . . . and she's clearly happy he's back.

I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want me.  I think she wants her cake and to eat it too.  If asked, I know she'd pick me over him.  But I don't view their communications as "harmless."  They're more than "just friends."  It might lead to something much more than a flirty, wistful distraction.  

I fluctuate between wanting to give her enough rope to hang herself, and intervening before its too late.

I'm just  ? right now.  

[LostinBPDland]

Hey man, sorry to hear this but I think you knew it was just a matter of time right?

So, last time you were reluctant to step in.  Once you did, you saw just how involved it had gotten and were glad you did.

Why is this time different friend?  What consequences or boundaries did you set for yourself from last time?  I know how mad and lost you were last time.  It downright sucked for you and was all encompassing.  It should have been! 

I would remind her ASAP of the reasons you gave her last time about talking to him.  They got her to see the light last time, why would it be ok now in her world?  Nothing has changed for it to be ok.  She was having an emotional affair and is now throwing up   of starting one again.  Nip it in the bud now.  You need to come down a little harder this time and let her know this will never be ok.

Good luck friend.  Be true to yourself and remember if anyone is to respect you it is your spouse who should 100% of the time.

 

[united for now]

So part of you is looking for an excuse to end it all - the other part of you wants to keep working on the relationship.

Could there be more there than just those two options?

[briefcase]

Thanks for the responses because it really helps me think this through.  I also went back and re-read my posts from last fall when this happened the first time.

I feel like I confronted her fairly quickly last fall after I learned the extent of things and after the inital shock wore off.  But even then I felt like I was probably too quick to move into "let's fix this" mode.  I really don't like to sit with negative emotions or hold grudges--probably not a bad trait overall, but like anything else it has a down side. 

Obviously, my wife has never really accepted that she did anything wrong.  To her, they were "just friends" engaging in "chit chat." The content of the texts messages I read las fall (about 2 months worth) support this characterization.  There were no professions of love for each other, no soul-bearing conversation, no "sexting," etc.  It was, in fact, mostly light chit chat. I have no way of verifying, but she says the telephone calls were very much the same.  She pointed to this "harmless" content and basically said, "nothing to see here."

I focused on the frequency and secrecy of the communications as evidence of an unhealthy emotional attachment--an "emotional affair." 

With this new round of communication through FB, and now email and Yahoo messaging.  It's again pretty clear she has an emotional attachment to him. Although he apparently bought a computer and "found" her on FB, since then she's been the one to initiate most of the messages, emails, etc. He doesn't even respond to them all.  He's also said he doesn't want to get her in trouble.

I can live with my wife having male friends, but not if I know there is an emotional attachment and attraction. 

I have a lot of battle scars already from this marriage.  I have to think about how many more I want.

[briefcase]

I should add, for clarity, that I don't agree that all of her conversations with him last fall were completely "harmless."  They talked about some inappropriate topics too.

[Steph]

 Bottom line, in a marriage/committed relationship, the feelings of the other party has to be important and worth respecting. If you are uncomfortable, its completely reasonable to ask her to stop, if that is what you want.

[briefcase]

I'm going to tell her that my preference is that we stick with what we agreed last October--no further contact with him. My instinct tells me this is the right call.

After much soul searching, I think this is my bottom line as far as boundaries go:

I can live with them being Facebook friends. 

I can live with checking each other_

[LostinBPDland]

Those are all great man.  You sound like you are on top of it.

But remember, he isn't just "any man", he is a former fiancee and lover.  Anyone would have a problem with someone that was intimate with their spouse at one time being casual friends who secretly communicate.

Be careful.

[LoveNotWar]

I have male friends but I don't have a past history of having dated/slept with them. They are colleagues, gay or part of a couple that I am friends with. I don't text them daily and I don't count on them for emotional support/validation. That's the difference in my mind.

My h does stay in contact w/some of his exgfs and his ex wife comes over once a week. I am not alarmed by his contact with exgfs. It's not often and pretty innocent but I don't like the ex wife in my house. She's a classic codependent and still brings him treats, will run his errands if he asks, rearranges things in my house so it will be the way he likes it etc. He says he doesn't like it but he also doesn't discourage her. This is an issue we will have to work out when we start MC, which is soon. Im just being patient until then.

I like the boundaries you set and I think I'll keep those in mind when I tackle the subject of the exW.

Please let me know how it goes when you talk to her. I'm going to learn from this.   

[briefcase]

I don't text them daily and I don't count on them for emotional support/validation.

Thanks, I'm adding this to my list. 

One additional problem is that W doesn't have a whole ton of friends, male of female.  She kinda rubs people the wrong way, go figure.  So this is a double whammy.  It makes his attention all the more valuable to her.  And I have no real reference points for what is and what is not appropriate communication between opposite sex friends (real friends) in this digital age (cell phones still mostly came in a "bag" the size of a large brick when we were dating!). That said, I know overboard when I see it, and she went overboard, but just how far, well  ?

 

[briefcase]

I told her what I can live with on Friday and she listend and agreed.  It's supposed to be public comments and occassional, approriate messages through FB.  No sneaking, etc.  We'll see. 

I think her ex isn't on the computer too often, so she was frustrated by his lack of digital response anyway. That may change as he learns the ropes of FB and gets into the computer.

The conversations went well enough, but we ended the weekend with a blow out that required I leave the house for a while.  Things are settled again.

[LostinBPDland]

Good job on telling her.  I hope you don't have to remind her again every 6 months.  That is a lot to live with having to check and recheck if they have spoken, take that from experience here.

Did she say why she wanted him in her life if he is so far away and she is a former fiancee?  What is her thought process?  Is this guy so wonderful she just can't imagine not talking or acknowledging that he exists in her world?  That is the part I am having a hard time understanding right now about your situation.

Be well man.

[briefcase]

Did she say why she wanted him in her life if he is so far away and she is a former fiancee?  What is her thought process?  Is this guy so wonderful she just can't imagine not talking or acknowledging that he exists in her world?  That is the part I am having a hard time understanding right now about your situation.

Her answer is "friendship."  And there is probably even some truth in there.

But, I think there is a certain excitement too.  Some "what if" thoughts about their past, the tantalizing possibility for something a bit more in the future.  She admits to some of the "what ifs" but denies any plans for the future. 

[LostinBPDland]

Now that's it has been a while for you to process this somewhat...what are your thoughts?  How do you feel about her "what if" scenarios?  Do you feel that is normal and acceptable in a relationship?  To let the pitbull play with your kids without close supervision?  is it worth the wonder and risk of having something happen when you are not looking?

I'm not trying to be a bad person here.  I just think that when the situation is reversed, there is no way she would be ok with it unless she is justifying her behavior.  The fact that she hid it the first time, shame on her.  The second time they started talking doesn't start from square one.  There were boundaries in place.  Now she is already crossing them and you are kind of accepting it.  It's almost like she asked you to leave your front door unlocked just in case her friend comes over.  What would you be comfortable with?

[Grey Kitty]

I know how you feel about making a list like that, of the things you can deal with and the things you can't deal with...been there myself.

But I'm thinking about how this whole "problem" is structured, and that part sucks. Unfortunately I'm not sure how to re-structure things.

Those "rules" are all things that she has to voluntarily comply with based on your request that she do so. And it is very easy to feel like somebody is trying to control you when they set rules like that, and things go downhill from there.

Boundaries that you set, which are actions YOU take to protect yourself seem so much better...I just can't see a way to apply them here.

Your current situation--you sound worried, but she said she would behave in a reasonable way is well...better than a lot of other situations! Best of luck to you!

[briefcase]

This whole thing has gotten just plain weird. 

She's very flattered that he has gone out of his way, again, to find her--this time on facebook.

She knows he wants something more from her. She thinks she's got it under control.  She says she wants to be his friend.  But, then says he may be motivated to get her to "do something" so he can expose her to me and exact some revenge because she cheated on him 20+ years ago, and then later slept with his friend after they broke up.   

I asked her, "You think that and you want to be friends with him, why?"  No real answer.

She thinks I should feel "motivated" to be a better husband by his re-appearance.  I wonder how motivated she'll feel if I start asking all my Xs to be FB friends.

It really does feel like Fantasyland, but in a different way than I meant when I named this thread.

I've said my piece to her.  She knows what I expect.  Let's see.  And, yes, I am worried.

[Steph]

 Wow, gamey gamey. She thinks he is gaming her and thinks this should manipulate you into jumping higher and faster..

So..what boundaries have you set for yourself?

[united for now]

I don't think we communicate with our words.
I think we communicate with our actions.

She knew what your previous "line in the sand" was and she crossed it. Now you've moved it back and redrawn it... what do you think is going to happen next?