Getting easier...

[Think About It...]

I seem to really "get it" and respond quickly BEFORE my BPDh dysregulates. Last night we were talking about when certain things happened in our life together and he told me that both the records and MY MEMORY were faulty because HIS memory was right, etc...He started to dysregulate just in the realization that I was not accepting his memory as the sole source of finding the information that I was looking for but that I also have MY memory, records and online records of events that occurred as well. I just got up and quickly walked out of the room without a comment.

I went to the office and found a piece of information online that we needed to clarify the issue and when I returned, he was not mad. When I spoke, I gave him the piece of information that I found online. He started to say that the records "are not right"...I replied "really, they are "legal records", I trust them to be true" and then he started to look at his "memories" and tried to reconcile them WITH THE ACCEPTANCE that what I had found IN THE RECORDS...this is a BIG step for him.

A bigger step for me though. I left BEFORE he dysregulated and it turned into an heated argument. I did not want to tell him that his memory was wrong BUT I allowed "records" to do that and then validated OUR memory as being one that we needed to verify with "records". He seemed to be fine with all of this.  

One small success in ways; a greater understanding FOR ME that it is worth all the effort to NOT "go there" to cause or perpetuate dysregulation.

[real lady]

I seem to really "get it" and respond quickly BEFORE my BPDh dysregulates. Last night we were talking about when certain things happened in our life together and he told me that both the records and MY MEMORY were faulty because HIS memory was right, etc...He started to dysregulate just in the realization that I was not accepting his memory as the sole source of finding the information that I was looking for but that I also have MY memory, records and online records of events that occurred as well. I just got up and quickly walked out of the room without a comment.

I went to the office and found a piece of information online that we needed to clarify the issue and when I returned, he was not mad. When I spoke, I gave him the piece of information that I found online. He started to say that the records "are not right"...I replied "really, they are "legal records", I trust them to be true" and then he started to look at his "memories" and tried to reconcile them WITH THE ACCEPTANCE that what I had found IN THE RECORDS...this is a BIG step for him.

A bigger step for me though. I left BEFORE he dysregulated and it turned into an heated argument. I did not want to tell him that his memory was wrong BUT I allowed "records" to do that and then validated OUR memory as being one that we needed to verify with "records". He seemed to be fine with all of this.  

One small success in ways; a greater understanding FOR ME that it is worth all the effort to NOT "go there" to cause or perpetuate dysregulation.

[Chihiro]

Great that it worked out well for you, Real Lady. I got a little nervous for you reading your post, though - my fear was that getting the online record to "prove" his memory was faulty could have felt invalidating to him, but so glad for you and him that it didn't happen!

[Steph]

Great that it worked out well for you, Real Lady. I got a little nervous for you reading your post, though - my fear was that getting the online record to "prove" his memory was faulty could have felt invalidating to him, but so glad for you and him that it didn't happen!

 Yes..I agree. Again, there is this " I am right and you are wrong" feel to it. It certainly could dysregulate him another time.

Instead, what about

" Hmm..I remember it differently." and letting it drop.

If he pushes it, then he can search for records,etc.

Its a common symptom with BPD to have dates, years, etc, be all mixed up. We see that alot here. My H still has that issue for the years he was dysregulated. So, just be aware that proving him wrong was putting a symptom in his face. This is why he dysregulated..not because he wanted to be right, but because there is something wrong with him and it was being demonstrated. Again, this happens so quickly he has no idea whats going on.

Next time, can you walk away and not have the need or desire to prove him wrong? With the records, you did prove him wrong. I wonder why that was important for you to do?

That would be  a good step for you to work on.

[real lady]

Great that it worked out well for you, Real Lady. I got a little nervous for you reading your post, though - my fear was that getting the online record to "prove" his memory was faulty could have felt invalidating to him, but so glad for you and him that it didn't happen.

He was attacking my memory and I used the "records" to help ME remember; therefore NOT pointing out "his lack of memory at all"...I hear you...I was walking carefully on this ...thanks.

[yeeter]

Very common scenario for me. My wife really deregulates if she is not 'right'

SET works well.

Support
Empathize
State your truth

In this case my truth would have been ' I remember it this way '.  Unless there was a need for accuracy, I would have never even looked it up after that.  So what if I remembered ' wrong '?  ( so what if I remembered ' right' )

But you were the one there and it worked out for you, so this is great.  But I quit caring if I was right or not.  At the root of it I am entitled to my own reality.  As she is hers. They are both equally valid, even if one is more ' accurate'

[artman.1]

When you really get to the bottom, and look at what this is about, you will realize it's control.  A Codependent behavior at it's best.  To be able to control such that you are proven to be right, or whatever thing you feel you must control.  I have learned to detach with love, and not attempt to control, as I just do not need that now.  I must deal with my stuff, and my UBPDW must deal with her stuff.  No comment is the best answer to the disagreement, rather than controlling the situation.  Who cares anyway in the end.  We all know that BPD's have the problems with adjusting reality to fit their feelings.  This is their only way to make sense of their disordered coping ability.  Sometimes it is just much too dificult for them to face their own dificiencies.

Art

[LoveNotWar]

I have a theory; when I disagree w/my h he feels like its an emotional abandonment and that's why he melts down.

He really likes it when we are on the same page. If he asks me where I want to go for dinner and I say it's up to you he says I have to choose. He's waiting to see if I pick the same place he is thinking of. If I do he take it as a sign that we are perfect for each other. Ok, I know you're thinking that's crazy...but I am just thrilled that I now understand. 

So I don't correct him unless it's very important.

I save my disagreements for my most important values. Like voting republican, he's a democrat and it makes him crazy that our votes cancel each other out. 

[real lady]

I have a theory; when I disagree w/my h he feels like its an emotional abandonment and that's why he melts down.

I agree with this too; if I even SHOW any question in my mind, it seems to be cause for dysregulation. I can't have a "decent conversation" with him anymore and he talks and I just sit and "uh-huh"...

He really likes it when we are on the same page. If he asks me where I want to go for dinner and I say it's up to you he says I have to choose. He's waiting to see if I pick the same place he is thinking of. If I do he take it as a sign that we are perfect for each other. Ok, I know you're thinking that's crazy...but I am just thrilled that I now understand. 

Yes, this is somewhat like it is with us; I am very easy going and can tell when he "wants" a certain type of food and I usually do too; either way; I agree so he can have it and it makes him happy. I wonder if all of this APPEASING is really the only way that we can deal with anything. I don't state my desires anymore and when I do; if we cannot do it right then he seems to start to dysregulate as thoiugh I have ASKED him for something that he is unable to give to me AT THAT MOMENT...I just calmly say "Oh, I was just thinking outloud, I don't want that right now, thanks though".

So I don't correct him unless it's very important.

me neither. I just try to gently "give him my thought" for him to think about; but that is when he tells me that my "memory is faulty"...yeah...I don't say anything. I feel like I am stuck in a conversation that I can no longer "reason" with him without him dysregulating. He used to be able to do it all the time until this past  October...

[real lady]

Its a common symptom with BPD to have dates, years, etc, be all mixed up. We see that alot here.

Yes, I understand that now...thanks.

Next time, can you walk away and not have the need or desire to prove him wrong? With the records, you did prove him wrong. I wonder why that was important for you to do?

I have a need to know and share and WRITE the truth; I don't have ANY need to PROVE him wrong. I can understand how he thinks that we met a year before we actually did but he is trusting his feelings rather than concrete evidence of records. Showing him the records does end up "proving his memory is wrong" but hopefully he will CHOOSE to trust in what is TRUE than trust in his memory...even my memory fails me at times.

He seemed fine with it afterward and I won't bring it up again. I told him that I hope that we can talk about "our information" with less trouble next time.

It is important to me to be honest and be able to talk openly...I guess I don't have that luxury with my dear BPDh anymore. I feel that we do NOT connect emotionally or intellectually; he is TOO MUCH in his feelings...all the time. I just "stay on the outside" and love him.

[Steph]

Its a common symptom with BPD to have dates, years, etc, be all mixed up. We see that alot here.

Yes, I understand that now...thanks.

Next time, can you walk away and not have the need or desire to prove him wrong? With the records, you did prove him wrong. I wonder why that was important for you to do?

I have a need to know and share and WRITE the truth; I don't have ANY need to PROVE him wrong. I can understand how he thinks that we met a year before we actually did but he is trusting his feelings rather than concrete evidence of records. Showing him the records does end up "proving his memory is wrong" but hopefully he will CHOOSE to trust in what is TRUE than trust in his memory...even my memory fails me at times.

He seemed fine with it afterward and I won't bring it up again. I told him that I hope that we can talk about "our information" with less trouble next time.

It is important to me to be honest and be able to talk openly...I guess I don't have that luxury with my dear BPDh anymore. I feel that we do NOT connect emotionally or intellectually; he is TOO MUCH in his feelings...all the time. I just "stay on the outside" and love him.

 BPD is all about emotions and emotional dysregulation. He is living in his 'emotional mind' much of the time. Even when he is in 'Wise Mind', it takes a trigger and he is right back there. Thats BPD.

There are ways that you can learn to help you have a more effective conversation with him that wont trigger him with every turn. It will take practice and it will take you letting go of how you naturally converse..yet the payoff will definately make a difference for both of you.

Steph

[real lady]

Well we have had a few interesting "conversations" that bordered on dysregulation but it seemed that he somehow "regulated himself".

ONE: Was going to watch a movie last night; subject that is too scary for my son; he is sensitive to sound and the TV was loud; we asked my H to turn it down a little; son was upset. H complained about my son "crying" about it and we asked him again...then H "muted" it and said we were going to watch it that way...punishing me for saying anything...told son that we would not be watching it and both he and I went upstairs. H turned off movie...and went to his game. I came back downstairs and he continued gaming; I could find anything on tv for the two of us so I retired early. He came to bed and seemed to be alright.

TWO: He stayed up until 4 am today; I was in bed at 9 p.m. last night; up from 3-4 and then went back to bed for a few more hours. I am getting my rest and not asking anything of him. He seemed to be fine this morning but at the breakfast table, he "digs" at my son and I asked him to stop. I did not want to have to defend my son or sound like I was explaining what he said...again...I am tired of it so I just told my H to "stop". I did not say anything else; he sat there; looked as if he was about to blow up, thought about it, had put his fork down to "show me" that he was not going to finish his breakfast and without any more word from me; I refused to acknowledge the "punishment" again...if he wanted to NOT eat his breakfast, he has the choice that he can make. I continued with the conversation with son (and he followed suit, knowing how my H has been "going off" lately. He "corrected" himself and seemed to "come around" a little while after that.

Oh a THIRD one; he calls me from his car after finding that a business had closed for the day and said that he hoped to get to another one close by IF they would remain open past the next hour; it was 10 minutes of the hour. Then his voice changed; angrily he said "well, thanks for nothing, I was calling to see if you would look on the computer for the hours"...I let him finish and I said "You don't have to yell at me, I don't like that, I am happy to check the computer for you, I did not think of that, you could have ASKED me...just give me a minute and I will look it up for you...
after I gave him the information I repeated that it was upsetting to me that he yelled and he could have ASKED me for the information. He again, surprisingly did not react badly to this...

I take these as positive signs; I also suggested that he take a look at "Feel good mood therapy" (CBT) and I explained how it is used in therapy to help people feel better. He seemed to want to "say something" but I think again, that he realized (?) that what I said was neither provoking nor disrespectful to him.

I actually think that he might be "getting it" a little.

[LoveNotWar]

On appeasing...maybe I'm naive or looking at this wrong but I don't see it as appeasing. I just like to offer little "gifts" that make the people I care about happy. I like to see their face light up and I like to see them get excited. As long as the gift I offer isn't hurting ME and comes from my heart  I think it's OK.

I took my youngest grand for a g'ma and g'son outing to the mall where they had a kiosk that sold an item he collects. Then we went for pizza and he got all the soda his belly he could hold. When I took him home he was dancing through the house with delight. That made ME so happy.

The same w/my BPDh, if I can say or do a little something that makes him happy without hurting myself why not? I made him cookies last night, they weren't my fave but he ate a dozen in one sitting. He was happy, he felt loved and he said thank you. I was happy, I  felt good about doing something nice and I felt appreciated. It's a win-win.

I  don't do it to appease, I do it out of love and care. Even if he hadn't said thank you that would have been OK, there were no expectations of something for me out of my action. It is simply a gift.

LNW

[real lady]

LNW;    I really hear you and AGREE.   Your heart and thinking IS in the right place...I enjoy giving him little things and seeing him happy...I had to look back at where I used the word "appease" and found it...

I wonder if all of this APPEASING is really the only way that we can deal with anything. I don't state my desires anymore and when I do; if we cannot do it right then he seems to start to dysregulate  

I guess I was also bring in how much I am NOT sharing with my BPDh of MY life. It is a realization that I am giving but not getting things that I need. Trying to find contentment in him being happy; having a quieter more peaceful home and being happy with that and not continue to "want more"...

   thanks for replying...the past few days have been good; the longest stretch of "normal" behavior in the past year. I know that I have learned how to conceal my stress which helps him also.