A good thing (I think), but it felt very strange...

[Think About It...]

A strange dynamic over the weekend.  We were planning to take the kids and go out for dinner as a family.  Earlier in the day we set a reservation and I mentioned a certain time to depart - in order to give us time to get there.

So we go off and do things separately during the day, and later on we cross paths again and I ask what time she wants to leave?  She reverses this around asking - what time do I want to leave.  My response is that its whatever time she feels comfortable with and which will give her time to be ready, etc.  She says, its up to me because its a route I travel often and she doesnt know it that well, so whatever I suggest is what we will do.

And I finally suggested the same time as earlier.  She made me clarify this, and said ok.

It felt very strange and awkward.  So I thought about why.  I think its because I have trained myself to avoid all decision making of any type when it comes to interacting with my wife.  So she was 'forcing' me to make the decision, and this made me very uncomfortable.  I wanted to only offer a 'suggestion' and have her validate it (or adjust it) and make the ultimate decision.  This might be because I was afraid of getting it wrong (who knows in what way - that it wouldnt give time and I would be blamed, or that there was something I should have accounted for her to be able to do, etc etc).  Another piece was that I didnt trust her and there was a feeling of an underlying motive (as there often is - which then she will spring on me as an ah-ha!, gotcha!)

Im not sure all the underlying reasons, but I do know it was a very strange/uncomfortable exchange. 

Remarkable, because anyone that knows me knows I am not shy at all about making decisions.  I think it has something to do with fear and mistrust of her, which I have adapted behavior to protect myself from.

But in reality it was all fine and good.  The evening went well, and I think she really was just deferring to my judgment (just seemed SO strange it made me uncomfortable and had my radar and defenses on high alert)

[yeeter]

A strange dynamic over the weekend.  We were planning to take the kids and go out for dinner as a family.  Earlier in the day we set a reservation and I mentioned a certain time to depart - in order to give us time to get there.

So we go off and do things separately during the day, and later on we cross paths again and I ask what time she wants to leave?  She reverses this around asking - what time do I want to leave.  My response is that its whatever time she feels comfortable with and which will give her time to be ready, etc.  She says, its up to me because its a route I travel often and she doesnt know it that well, so whatever I suggest is what we will do.

And I finally suggested the same time as earlier.  She made me clarify this, and said ok.

It felt very strange and awkward.  So I thought about why.  I think its because I have trained myself to avoid all decision making of any type when it comes to interacting with my wife.  So she was 'forcing' me to make the decision, and this made me very uncomfortable.  I wanted to only offer a 'suggestion' and have her validate it (or adjust it) and make the ultimate decision.  This might be because I was afraid of getting it wrong (who knows in what way - that it wouldnt give time and I would be blamed, or that there was something I should have accounted for her to be able to do, etc etc).  Another piece was that I didnt trust her and there was a feeling of an underlying motive (as there often is - which then she will spring on me as an ah-ha!, gotcha!)

Im not sure all the underlying reasons, but I do know it was a very strange/uncomfortable exchange. 

Remarkable, because anyone that knows me knows I am not shy at all about making decisions.  I think it has something to do with fear and mistrust of her, which I have adapted behavior to protect myself from.

But in reality it was all fine and good.  The evening went well, and I think she really was just deferring to my judgment (just seemed SO strange it made me uncomfortable and had my radar and defenses on high alert)

[hithere]

I think fear is a big part of a relationship with a BPD, it is like being conditioned to fear the rage response.  I felt it also.  I used to be afraid to ask for gas money even when I saw her going around town buying $120 track jackets knowing our bank account was negative.

I wonder what it would be like wearing one of the helmet cams for a weekend and being able to review the footage in a safe place with a therapist, I imagine you would see all types of strange behaviours from the both of you.

[Wrongturn1]

Good observation about the fear response... I agree, and it's hard to get over after living in ever-increasing fear of the rage episodes for a very long time.  As I become more skilled at dealing with this, my inner monologue and decision making process is starting to change.  Something along the lines of the following.

Old Me:  "I would like to spend one night per month hanging out with my guy friends in an appropriate setting, but based on prior experience, she will rage at me if I do that, so I'd better not even bring it up."

New Me: "There's a fair probability that she will rage at me no matter what I do, so I might as well do what I want.  I think I'll spend a night per month hanging out with the guys.  If she rages, I don't have to accept abuse."

[an0ught]

Good question.

Sometimes I think that we've learned that making decisions sometimes works but leads also to being blamed. So we avoid it. Not making decision sometimes also works but also leads to being blamed and often to worse which we passively even have endorsed but at least we can feel good about ourselves as victims 

There may be some aspects of intermittent feedback that keep us off track once we are and it seems hard to get back.

[moonunit]

good topic, i think its fear, we have all been on the receiving end of a rage that was totally directed at us for something we did or something they perceived we did, it really doesn't matter, when their mad, their mad, logic doesn't factor in. I think sometimes we defer decision making to avoid the " i told you so " comment and then open ourselves up as a target. I know  i do it, i try not to, but sometimes i just cave to avoid a confrontation. I am learning to break that habit, its going to take some time to do it.   

[LoveNotWar]

I hear ya, we get a weird dynamic going around making a decision. I almost feel like he's bullying me into making a decision. He gets a tone going that's strident and demanding. It's like...make a decision, just make up your mind. And I'm sort of like a deer in the headlights. I want to say just shut up so I can think...but I don't say that. 

And of course I run the risk of being wrong and lectured about why it's wrong...oh brother!

But I'm working at ditching the fear. Now sometimes i say what I want to do and we go from there. He's definitely not afraid to tell ME if he doesn't want to do it.

[briefcase]

I used to experience this quite a lot.  For me it was definitely a conditioned fear of being called out later for deciding the "wrong thing."  Turning it around to make it their decision is simply pre-assigning blame, in case there is any blame to be assigned later.  It's a habit that can be broken if you remain mindful and always have a decisive answer ready.

It used to be an agonizing process to pick a restaurant, of all things.  Now, I'll either tell her straightaway where I want to go, or if I ask her first, I already have a place in mind if she punts the question back.  If I ask her, and she picks a place, we go there.  If I don't want to go there, too bad, I shouldn't have asked her to pick.

I've applied this to all kinds of issues and situations beyond restaurants.  I feel like she respects me a lot more when I am confident and decisive.     

[moonunit]

briefcase, your last comment hits a cord with my situation. My SO will from time to time blurt out in a heated conversation, grow a pair and act like a man. Aside from the implied insult, i deep down think that my SO needs to have someone take more control/ be more decisive at times, she lacked this growing up and never got it from her father ever. Based on her tragic past, i sometimes vision her as a young child trapped in the body of a grownup, like she is frozen to the time when her innocence was brutally taken away from her and longs for some kind of stabiltiy.     

[goinbonkers]

she wants you to make the decision because if anything goes wrong, it will be all your fault and none of hers.  been there.