Dysregulation -- can it last for days?

[Think About It...]

Hi All,

I'm wondering if periods of dysregulation can last for days. My uBPDh has, in my opinion, been in one one of these cycles since Friday night.

Has anyone else experience these cycles that last for days?

After pretty much ignoring for days, he started to rage last night and I admit I wasn't very skillfull and cut him off. I just wanted it to stop. I told him that I could see he was very distressed and upset with me. I didn't any further before he started raging again.

He said he was DONE. He said he had come the conclusion rationally and said he was clear-headed.

This was right after he punched yet another hole in our bedroom door (the 1st one had to be replaced because of the punched holes). He said he felt like cutting (which he as never done). He said he has done everything to change and I've done nothing (extreme thinking), I only care about myself and everything is about me. He has also been going to a weekly therapist and said he's decided to stop going and just start a new fresh life altogether.

He went so far as to rip out some of his chest hair (OUCH!) .

To me this is such a clear destructive pattern. I've heard all of this before. This is not someone who is thinking clearly in any way. He is in great distress and pain.

[hudrose]

Hi All,

I'm wondering if periods of dysregulation can last for days. My uBPDh has, in my opinion, been in one one of these cycles since Friday night.

Has anyone else experience these cycles that last for days?

After pretty much ignoring for days, he started to rage last night and I admit I wasn't very skillfull and cut him off. I just wanted it to stop. I told him that I could see he was very distressed and upset with me. I didn't any further before he started raging again.

He said he was DONE. He said he had come the conclusion rationally and said he was clear-headed.

This was right after he punched yet another hole in our bedroom door (the 1st one had to be replaced because of the punched holes). He said he felt like cutting (which he as never done). He said he has done everything to change and I've done nothing (extreme thinking), I only care about myself and everything is about me. He has also been going to a weekly therapist and said he's decided to stop going and just start a new fresh life altogether.

He went so far as to rip out some of his chest hair (OUCH!) .

To me this is such a clear destructive pattern. I've heard all of this before. This is not someone who is thinking clearly in any way. He is in great distress and pain.

[Neverknow]

MY stbx BPDw was sometimes dysregulated for weeks at a time, although often she would be okay for a couple of hours when she first woke up.

[Miserable_moi]

Mine managed just over three months once.

[goinbonkers]

Hi All,

I'm wondering if periods of dysregulation can last for days. My uBPDh has, in my opinion, been in one one of these cycles since Friday night.

Has anyone else experience these cycles that last for days?

After pretty much ignoring for days, he started to rage last night and I admit I wasn't very skillfull and cut him off. I just wanted it to stop. I told him that I could see he was very distressed and upset with me. I didn't any further before he started raging again.

He said he was DONE. He said he had come the conclusion rationally and said he was clear-headed.

This was right after he punched yet another hole in our bedroom door (the 1st one had to be replaced because of the punched holes). He said he felt like cutting (which he as never done). He said he has done everything to change and I've done nothing (extreme thinking), I only care about myself and everything is about me. He has also been going to a weekly therapist and said he's decided to stop going and just start a new fresh life altogether.

He went so far as to rip out some of his chest hair (OUCH!) .

To me this is such a clear destructive pattern. I've heard all of this before. This is not someone who is thinking clearly in any way. He is in great distress and pain.

Seems like he is in a ton of pain and doesn't know what to do about it.  Regardless of what he says, he's in a lot of emotional pain.

[beyondbelief]

Safety is our number one concern.  Are you safe, would you like some resources in regards to Domestic Violence?

[hudrose]

I don't ever worry that I am not safe. I worry for him because I can see he is in a lot of pain and has no control or ways to cope/channel that energy right now. He has learned some skills but there is only so much he can do on his own.

I'm not really sure what to do once he's in his "I'm DONE" mode. There is no where he has that he can go so to take a break. He ends up just going round and round in his head and sometimes being destructive. If I say I'm leaving for a while, it feeds into his abandonment fears.

I'm not getting as sucked into the emotional drama but I'm not quite sure what my next step should be. We have a safe word for taking a short break but maybe we should have a safe word that means we need to take a longer break and give each other some space (maybe a few days).

I know I've been stressed and exhausted and am not the most patient and empathetic partner in this state. I need some time to de-stress and build up my "patience tank" or I won't be any good for either of us. We have been together for more than 9 years.

Has anyone had any success with this? Am I heading in the right direction?

Patty

[artman.1]

hudrose,     My UBPDW raged for about 85 hours straight, for 24 hours per day once, with many accusations Humiliating comments Filthy names, and physical things like pinching to keep me awake and kicking, and scratching my back and digging in her fingernails.  I finally snapped, and went upstairs to kill myself.  I got the 357 Mag pistol and put it in my mouth and started pulling the trigger.  I snapped back, put the gun away, and locked it up and ran out and went to the nearby Hospital Emergency Clenic.  They sent me to a mental health hospital for two weeks.  When my UBPDW came to pick me up at the mental hospital, she started calling me Freak Boy.  Since then I went to a therapist, and found out about BPD, and my Codependency.  I have been working on me ever since.  I have joined CODA, and attend weekly meetings.  I never want to experience anything like that again.  My UBPDW blamed all that on my middle Son, who had nothing to do with it.  She was just in a rage and out of control over some Airline Tickets to go to a wedding.

Art

[RedRightAnkle]

I would say so - the diagnostic criteria says their moods can drop for only a few hours at a time, at most a whole day. After being around my udxBPDbf, I will have to disagree. The longest was about a week or so. It was just day after day of him berating me, twisting everything I said, yelling at me, and calling me at all hours of the night just to insult me. NOTHING I did could make anything better; in fact his interpretation of things I said made things worse. He'll oscillate from being super depressed and needy to just being enraged and telling me to leave him alone. Once he was so distant from me for nearly a week, and finally I decided now was the time to break up with him. I went over to his house - and he was fine. Totally fine, and acted as if nothing had happened. That's always the eerie part -they just bounce back.

I do relate to your sadness though about his pain - it does sound like he's hurting immensely. My bf's a puncher too - he's put several holes in his wall. Once he couldn't understand an online map and he proceeded to knock over a reclining chair, punch a hole through a plastic storage container, and kick out the legs of a side table all within about 10 seconds. He's also put his head through a door. His closet door has a hole in his door because of it. It scares me to death.

There's probably not much you can actually say or do to make him feel better - if you've been together this long, how much value do you put on his "I'm done" mode? I think a timeout is good for you at least, which is who you need to be thinking about. If they really are just dysregulating, they come around...my bf does at least.

So stay strong, at least you know you're not alone! Take care  

[LoveNotWar]

hudrose, I am so sorry you are having to deal with this exhausting and confusing illness.

In my experience dysregualtion can last for days. My BPDh lived in a state of almost constant dysregualtion for weeks before he started therapy. He could calm down for a few hours then off we went again. This was before we knew he was a pw/BPD and I certainly didn't handle it well myself! I am learning. 

My BPDh will say we are DONE when he is agitated/dysregulated. I recognize that as " you don't hear me, you don't hear my message" so if it's possible I try to figure out what he is trying to communicate and validate.  If its not possible because he's doing his verbal yuck stuff I just take a break. When I take a break I always text him to say we can continue our conversation when we feel calmer.

Your leaving may engage his abandonment issues but I have also found that leaving takes away the "audience" for those yucky and scarey behaviors they have when they dysregulate. The verbal yuck is hurtful and diminishes the r/s and I learned you simply can't validate or reason with a dysregulated person.

Taking a time out is the best option in my case. He still doesn't like it but I am super consistent. The minute he starts name calling or getting critical I take a time out. I knew it was helping when I reached for my purse and keys one evening and he stopped in mid word to say "oh no, you're leaving, I'm sorry".

I am sorry your pwBPD is quitting therapy and as I read these posts I am seeing that is common with BPDs. I think the T says something that they can't deal with and they paint the T black.

You will find support and great strategies on this site. Welcome.

[esmcgreer]

I have a husband who is BPD and he has made remarks exactly like that.  He says he's done and he'll just start over with someone new.  I've also dealt with the holes in the walls and screaming, etc.  It just sounds so similar!  I find it interesting that you mention he has been going to therapy.  Is this specifically for BPD, or just counseling in general?  I know that my husband raged like crazy during the time he was in therapy.  It was so hard on him because he is coming face to face with stuff he usually got to ignore and blame on someone else.  I bet that has contributed somewhat to his moods.  As far as how long it lasts, I guess it's up in the air.  I have felt my husband rage for a week, sometimes more.  Most often it is several days at a time.  You are right, it is so exhausting.  It's difficult because you desparately need a break at this time, but in my experience my husband got worse if I left.  He clearly felt afraid I was leaving, and needed more love at that point than ever.  You should take what you need for sure and be very clear with him that you are coming back and you are not leaving him.  Make it about your needs.  I know first hand what it looks like to be stuck and feel forced to neglect yourself just to make it stop.  He might not stop, and if your energy is depleted you might start playing his game, and that will keep the cycle going even longer.  Thanks for your post, so nice to know I'm not alone and that this illness is very real.  Take care.

[isilme]

Yes, it seems it can last for prolonged periods of time, sometimes even up to months.  And if you realize that someone can be raging silently as well as by punching holes in walls, our perception of calm from our SO with BPD is often off the mark, I think.

I remember a post a while back telling Stayers about the dangers of too much venting from themselves.  A little venting is okay - like hey, this crazy thing happened and I need to tell someone so I don't burst.  But continuing to vent, having other people chime in to vent, it all just feeds a negative cycle of emotions, where you vent more about other incidents, feeding the cycle even more.  But as a 'Non', at some point we hopefully see this cycle, and can stop.  We can distract ourselves with a new task; for me, mowing the lawn is far too physically taxing to continue to be an emotional basket case for a while, and the exercise and accomplishment are fulfilling enough to make me stop feeding the negative emotions.

But for our pwBPD, they don't seem to be able to stop this cycle.  My BF will get angry.  He will 'talk' about what makes him angry.  This doens't releive his feelings (and if I flunk validation then it REALLY doens't help), so he gets angrier, so he gets ore agitated, so he gets angrier, and so on.  Unless the phone rings, or I can distract him (look at the shiny!  Hey, we need to go to this place before it closes, etc) it can go on for hours/days.  They are aware of hurting.  They can't figure out why they hurt, only that you're supposed to love them, and if you REALLY love them, you'd make it stop, you'd stop whatever they figure is causing the pain, if they think it's you, their job, their FOO, their weight, whatever.  They cannot internalize the blame in a healthy way at all.  My BF when he does, he will suddenly hit himself in the head repeatedly, and it's quite scary to see someone hurt themselves out of the blue like that. 

And since the hurt is always lurking there, and has been shoved aside by projection or denial, it will rear its head over and over, in a matter of hours, days or weeks.  I've had BF go through a rage/silent rage/depression lasting almost 6 months.  It was only broken by the outside influence of getting a PT job, which boosted his sagging self esteem. 

So yes, it can last a looooong time.  And the comments about starting over seem common, as the pwBPD thinks all their troubles are external.  It must be someone else's fault they have run off friends, can't hold down a job, get into arguments and feel bad about themselves.  My BF loves to talk about ditching everything and moving to a city in our state where it's en vogue to be hipster-homeless (pan handle as a job while in college), or go backpacking across the country (from a man who can't stand not washing his hands before eating and needs condiments with all foods).  They don't realize they take their problems with them. 

[LoveNotWar]

My h's T is a behavioral therapist and I think she's handling things just right. She works with him on recognizing his own behaviors and working on strategies to keep his anger under control. I'm not there for their sessions but my h quotes her and says he really likes working with her. She seems to have the balance right.

What she doesn't do is talk to him about BPD although he's diagnosed. She treats behaviors not labels. I have only had one communication with her early on in their work w/my h's permission. I told her I didn't care about labels, just making things better. I warned her that if she said something wrong he'd bail and she said I wasn't telling her anything she didn't know.   

I pray daily that he continues to work with her and she continues to help him. 

[doingadance]

Hudrose,

You are definitely not alone. Parts of your post really resonate with me because I feel like I am also in the same boat- especially the "patience tank".

I echo everyone else here that yes, dysregulation can last for a while. My SOwBPD has been in a "funk" ever since we relocated across the country for my job 6 months ago.  I got sucked into her funk and my boundaries didn't exist. Her most recent rage lasted for about a week. The stress has reached an all-time high and she is questioning her purpose, meaning in life, etc. She writes in a journal, which I'm thankful for...but I fear that her journal entries probably just perpetuate the proverbial pointing finger.

The pain is so unbearable that I don't think she can even verbally express it...so I get little notes here and there...one of them said the only relaxation she feels is a razor cutting into her flesh. That she wants to be alone. 
but at the same time, she went into the closet and curled up on the floor...and texted me from in there saying," how dare you say that you care when you are capable of just ignoring me while im hurting in a dark closet?". (the push/pull dynamic).

after getting what my therapist calls her "anger orgasm", she goes right to sleep. wakes up and i am idealized once again. but i now know that it isn't going to last, because the problems and hurt are still there.

I've learned that dysregulation is intense emotional reactions. So reacting to her with logic will not help us. During one rage I was told: "you think too much, and need to feel more. I have a good balance between thinking and feeling, you need to work on yours". And when I'd say something later she would interrupt me and say, "stop THINKING! FEEL!"
essentially i took that as, "i feel so alone in my pain and emotions that i want you to feel them with me...or even feel them FOR me".

with my pwBPD, she has intense (yet brilliantly covered up) fears of abandonment, does not take ownership of her emotions and sometimes is not capable of communicating like an adult. my T has encouraged me to model healthy communication. i like your method of using a safe word when disengaging from an abusive situation, i think i may try that.

i'm stressed and exhausted too. tap into your support network and focus on not isolating yourself..this forum has been so helpful for me. we can overcome this and still retain our sense of self, it's possible

[isilme]

During one rage I was told: "you think too much, and need to feel more. I have a good balance between thinking and feeling, you need to work on yours". And when I'd say something later she would interrupt me and say, "stop THINKING! FEEL!"
essentially i took that as, "i feel so alone in my pain and emotions that i want you to feel them with me...or even feel them FOR me".

^^^ Yes.  This has been told to me many times, but usually I get told I "have no passion."  And I have realized, slowly, that not feeling, or showing that I feel BF's emotions with him will trigger him more.  It's invalidating.  If he is angry, I should be angry.  If I am not angry, too, no matter the cause, I am invalidating him.  This is a hard one, as I can validate anger at a 3rd party better (I see that you are mad at so and so.), as at times I can agree, and validation is soooo much easier if you agree with the emotions being expressed.  But when the anger is directed at me, my attempts to be calm and not sucked in are regarded as being judgmental, which fuels the fire. 

Ultimately I guess all we can do is validate when not facing an abusive rage, take a break when we do (sigh), and wait for that 'anger-orgasm' (good term) to hit its climax so the pwBPD can come back down.

I think Steph or someone else has said after DBT, their H said in a weird way it felt good or empowering to feel the rage and anger and out of control emotions, so anger-orgasm is probably an apt term. 

[maryy16]

Oh yes it can! A few months back my BPDh decided to go off of his medication to see if it was causing him other medical issues (he has type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure).  We discussed and we both decided that he could give it a go to see if maybe, possibly, he could handle life without the medication.  Two months went by and he was great...said he never felt better, was happy, actually excited about things.  But then it hit like a ton of bricks!  One day he started screaming at a cashier, calling him names, etc. because he was taking too long to help him, sadly, the same old story. From that point on, he was in a rage about EVERYTHING!  I could not walk in the room without being belittled, yelled at, made fun of, etc, etc...it was worse than it had ever been! This went on for about 3 weeks until he got physical with me (he had never done that before) when I took his keys away and refused to let him drive because of his erratic condition. At that point he realized that things were really, really bad and he started taking his meds again.  It took about a week, but he is now back to being calmer and less explosive.

[LoveNotWar]

My h says I analyze everything, he says when I am sitting quietly he KNOWS I'm analyzing him. And it causes him anxiety. Yes, I validate and am able to get through it but yikes...I think he's worried I can see through his bravado to the hurting guy inside...and I can.

Recently  he's also criticized me because I stay calm. He says I'm just too perfect that  I need to lose it sometimes. First, I'm so not perfect and I do lose it sometimes but apparently he's not an able to push my buttons like he used to. Is he craving that dysfunctional verbally abusive dynamic? is the fact that I don't get upset invalidating? Maybe if he's upset he wants me to be upset too?

And you just can't ask them because they are so unrealistic about things that they couldn't tell you if they wanted to!

Yet we love them and are committed to staying. Aren't they lucky to have us? 

[doingadance]

Is he craving that dysfunctional verbally abusive dynamic? is the fact that I don't get upset invalidating? Maybe if he's upset he wants me to be upset too?

very similar to my situation as i mentioned a few posts ago. there is a difference between validating and feeling through emotions FOR your pwBPD. i think that boils down to your boundries, right? if you dive into their bubbles with them and feel the same emotions they are going through, that is SO much to carry for a non..it's like doing double the work!

he probably cannot truly see that, rationally speaking, things are dysfunctional and verbally abusive in the moment...so he may not necessarily be craving *that*...but he might be crying out for you to help to deal with his pain and distress for him...because there appears to be a coping skill that just doesn't seem to be there.


and isilme...i got told the exact same thing the other day..."you have no passion. im attracted to passion. i dont care how intelligent you can be.."
pwBPD feel emotions very intensely...in my experience, both positive and negative.

[hudrose]

Thank you all for your responses! Just hearing that there are others who are experiencing these same things makes me feel a little better.


He has been going to a general therapist (not one that specializes in BPD) although I am trying to get him into a CBT program. So far he hasn't quit his weekly sessions, he went this afternoon.

He has still been very distant and cold this week. There were a couple hours here and there where I saw the husband I know and love but for the most part he has either been ignoring me or blowing up. I wrote him a note telling him I was going to shut up and listen more. He absolutely HATES HATES HATES being cut off for any reason whatsoever. I have a habit of  sometimes jumping in (even when I'm excited about something, I tend to jump in even to agree with what the person is saying).  That is my biggest bad habit that I am trying to break. Sometimes, it doesn't even phase him and other times it will be a huge trigger to a blowout. When I do it, I try to immediately apologize for interrupting. It usually doesn't work.
I mentioned before that my "patience tank" is running low and I feel like I am not being heard or acknowledged.

My question is: How do I show him that I'm trying my best to not cut him off and also use the words "I hear you" when I need a re-charge?  Doesn_

[esmcgreer]

Oh Patty!  So much of what you have written I have experienced as well!  Being told that you haven't worked on anything or changed anything is so frustrating!  My husband also uses that zinger frequently.  However, nothing is further from the truth.  Look at how willing you are to adapt and help your husband!  We would bend over backwards and sideways to help, and I think sometimes that is our downfall.  Especially dealing with a situation in which there is little we can do to make it different.  You are not the problem.  My husband absolutely goes bonkers when I interrupt him as well.  It is usually harmless, or done with good intent, but it just triggers him.  I understand what you are feeling.  You just want a partner in this, that can empathize with you and acknowledge your difficulties in life.  I don't mean to crush hopes, because I believe we can have some hope in our partners, but he may not be able to do this for you.  I only speak from my experience.  I have been married to my husband for 14 years, and his behavior has become scarier over the years.  What I have learned is that if he was capable of that level of self awareness and concern for others, we wouldn't be dealing with all the other crap that accompanies BPD.  This is what it means to be an emotional caretaker.  He is dependent on you.  You can't depend on him for the same. It absolutely sucks, but in my experience this is the truth.  I am happier now that I have accepted this, it is lonely sometimes though.  I hope he can get help, and I applaud you for your valiant efforts to keep your marriage together.  Few would be willing to do it.  He is a lucky man, whether he knows it or not.