Want to learn how to support a loved one and develop the relationship

[Think About It...]

Thanks Marvin, what are the sites you are speaking of?

[purelove]

Thanks Marvin, what are the sites you are speaking of?

[purelove]

As I learn more about this and look at my own behavior I think I myself may have a PD.
As I look at my behavior in this situation I am almost frantic at times trying save this relationship. I been in this situation several times in my life. It is fear of abandonment I think. I am having such emotions, feelings for a girl I have been talking to for only a few months and have not seen in person for 25+ years. I lost my patience last night and after a few drinks lashed out at her in a text. which she didnt reply to BTW. I do have mood swings, When I lash out very rarely but sometimes, wild accusations because of confusion about what is really truely happening with this sitaution. I have had a poor self-image most of my life. I was extremely shy as child, I have at times in my life been addicted to drugs. I think I might need to see a doctor?

[CodependentHusband]

Purelove,
    Maybe, maybe not... I think that Codependent behaviors are often driven from a fear of abandonment. Of course, codependency and PD's can coexist too. As for local help from pdocs and T's, I'm an advocate. It has helped me a great deal to see a therapist.

[Marvin Martian]

P.L. The site I like is BPDrecovery.com I think others endorse helens world. What might be causing you to stress might be the "fleas". I won't rule out a PD, but often when us non's encounter someone who is feeling based, and not as much reality and fact based, it can mess with our cognitive abilities. If you find your behavior isn't what you want it to be for the situation, I would strongly suggest you make the time to see a T. That said, the T should be well versed in BPD, cognitive behavioral therapy, and dialectical behavioral therapy. Don't hesitate to ask about those qualifications before an appt. In the meantime, you might set a boundary to focus on something you enjoy, such as a sport, or hobby. Turn off the phone and just focus on the moment, and enjoy. At this stage, it likely won't be easy, but it will help.

[Marvin Martian]

P.L. More thoughts? The next time you feel the need to send her a text, the content might be better to express that you accept both things and her as they - she are-is. This means that you accept how it is, right now, but in your mind the door is open to change for the better later. I have told mine that she doesn't have to be perfect, just as long is she is perfectly susie [name changed]. They need to feel you accept them the way are before things can change. This is only my opinion, but you might inquire of some senior members as well.

[purelove]

Update:

Well the silent treatment has ended, I guess, in a kinda of rage. After last week, when I sent her a message that I was no longer going to except her emotional abuse, and still receiving no call, Saturday night I lost my patience a bit and sent her a message saying  "her promise to talk soon, never comes, I hope she was enjoying the new web she was weaving and, it was sad to me that she already knew where it would end".

She unfreinded me on fb. yesterday, and sent me a message that said " your words scare me". I sent back , for her to relax and take a deep breath that I was sorry for the loss of patience. That I was hurt by her lack of concern still, after how close we had become, and I lashed out a bit. Told her to remember who I was, what a close emotional connection we had built even if it needed fixing at the moment, and in no way do I wish her anything but happiness and peace in her life.

I have to admit that after she said she was scared of me, I see that she clearly has a serious problem. It lifted a weight off of me that is hard to describe. I guess I was feeling as if ther was something that I could do to help this relationship grow. That I may be able to treat her a certain way, learn how love her the way she needs, be patient enough, to make this problem go away. I know you guys have all told me that is not posssible. I think I finally realized it. I still don't know what or if she has a diagnonsis. But ther is something serious going on with her.
 
Last night, she called me, I looked at the phone and did'nt answer it. After about ten minutes of trying to prepare myself for whatever I was in store for, I called her back. Although not hateful or vicious, more of a tone from her of astonishment and disbilief that anything she has done, or not done, could of been considered as abusive to me. That everyone in her life loves her and that the people that surround her are always seeking to be in her presence. These are the words that she used. She has not been able to communicate with me because of all the things going on in her life. She is going thru a stressful time right now. Moms very sick, daughter is dealing with issues, she works two jobs...etc.

 I told her that I understand and empathised with her that she has alot going on.
At the same time, there was no excuse for not being able to communicate with me at all. A response to a text of good morning, a one minute phone call here or there. Let me know she had recieved the card I sent her. She would only try and stop me from talking and say that i was not listening to her. I had to tell her twice to let me speak and when I was finished with my thought she could speak as long as she wanted i would not interupt her. She had a real tone of absolute disbilief in her voice, and at times it turned to frustrastion but, not really anger. She has a high childlike voice to begin with, but when she talked last night it sounded like i was talking to a child in every way. She told me a few times that if I loved her i would not feel this way. I was only putting alot of pressure on her. All I gave her in her life was pressure. i explained to her that I have never asked her to do anything but keep her word to me, be honest and open. Did'nt seem to get thru.

 I tried to change the subject a couple of times with not much luck. I told her that I was trying to learn why her behaviors are what they are. I cared for her enough to try and learn about her. That she is a very unique and special person who is very sensitive. We have that in common. I myself have always felt like I am more sensitive than most. I asked her what she had learned about herself and what happens to her behavior when she becomes emtionally close to someone. I got no response. I used the words "your behavior" a few times and she picked them out and repeated them back to me in disbelief, very sarcasticly. I tried to point out to her that everyone has things going on in thier lives and, it is a choice one makes to "fit in" a person that is cared for. I repeated many times, that I knew she had many stresses in her life and that she was doing well in handling it. She just kept telling me her family comes first. I agreed with her. The conversation ened abruptly. I thought the call was dropped. Tried to call back twice with no answer the second time I left a message. I told her to please take care of her self. I would always care for her. Her and her family would always be in my prayers. She called back about fifteen minutes later but, I did not  answer. I felt like there was nothing left to say. I was drained. I made no progress on the first call.

This time is way different than the last time I was in this cycle with her. Last time after the silent treatment for  about 10 days, She actually felt some remorse for what she had done. She said she was sorry, she wanted to fix things between us. She made a commitment to keep her word with me. It was really awesome feeling for me. I really believed that she wanted to do this. It sure did'nt last long. A week.

I sent her a text this morning: I do love you in, Christ!
                                             You are in my prayers today!


NO RESPONSE AS OF YET

I think sometimes you have to just leave things in the hands of our Creator!

[purelove]

Would like to know if anyone has any thoughts on my last post as to this womans actions in the future?
 
and if you can give me any ideas as to how I might approach the subject of her getting some help?

Will she just move on to idealize the next guy that shows her some attention?

 

[CodependentHusband]

When my wife acted like this, she needed a lot more emotional space, and any demands I put on her or any time I told her how I expected to behave seemed to make her feel that I was trying to control her. When I was honest with myself, I found that she was right. A lot of people with BPD also cannot seem to be alone. Being a long-distance r/s adds another big challenge, even for two mentally-healthy people. No one can know what the future holds. Since you asked for advice, try to truly accept her as she is now. I agree it is very hard.

[lastwave]

 Hi! Pure

Would like to know if anyone has any thoughts on my last post as to this womans actions in the future?

I am, by my choice, involved in a close friendship with a woman who I suspect has NPD/BPD. Many of the actions you report your  former H.S.acquaintance exhibits have a familiar ring to them. Let me suggest that what CO is suggesting about giving her more space is essential if you choose to be in the relationship you are describing.
That is you must let go of your expectations of her behavior--if in fact she has a PD what she wants is always going to be a moving target, what drives her emotionally is fear of being abandoned and fear of intimacy...she runs away because she is afraid that if she likes you and you like her you will eventually abandon her. Nothing you can say will convince her otherwise.

My relationship is working at this time.. we do things together, have fun, enjoy each others company..but I have no expectations that this will be the case tomorrow. If it is something else tomorrow then I will have to flex to accommodate whatever changes are taking place. Sometimes I move further away, sometimes a little closer, but that distance is whatever makes her feel the most comfortable. When she feels secure--not smothered and not abandoned we have a great friendship with NO EXPECTATIONS on my part.

Take it easy with yourself  you can't be gentle with her until you are gentle with yourself. Read everything you can on these boards about PD's...best wishes...

[Marvin Martian]

Would like to know if anyone has any thoughts on my last post as to this womans actions in the future?
 
and if you can give me any ideas as to how I might approach the subject of her getting some help?

Will she just move on to idealize the next guy that shows her some attention?
P.L. Its hard to say if she will move on to the next guy, or if she will find her object constancy in an animal, or family member. She might also just focus on problems with the family. Here is my thoughts; It seems like you really feel connected to this lady. I would suggest that you get a card. In it I would simply tell her that you fully accept her, and the way things  are right now, regardless. You can tell her you care about her and that she does matter to you I would cease to mention her failure to keep her word in any form for now. I would then send the card with some flowers. Then I would just leave it be for a  couple weeks. THIS WILL BE DIFFICULT TO DO. I would use this time to work on you, meaning your responses, and how you process her N/C, not keeping her word, and other actions that get to us non's. The biggest thing is to let her know that you really and truly accept her as she is right now. This doesn't preclude that you can't hope for a better future, you just accept her, the way things are, right now.

 

[purelove]

Marvin,
I would really like to do that. I am concerned, the last card I sent her she did not even let me know she received it! I guess the doesn't mean she didn't appreciate it? I really need to change the way I think if I am going to accept her the way she is! If I send her flowers and she does not say thank you! I just cant assume that the gesture was not appreciated?

[Marvin Martian]

Marvin,
I would really like to do that. I am concerned, the last card I sent her she did not even let me know she received it! I guess the doesn't mean she didn't appreciate it? I really need to change the way I think if I am going to accept her the way she is! If I send her flowers and she does not say thank you! I just cant assume that the gesture was not appreciated?

If she doesn't acknowledge the card or flowers, don't make assumptions. I can tell you that when my BPDgf goes thru the push cycle, she often doesn't acknowledge, but when she becomes regulated again she is thankful. Don't have any expectations. She just isn't capable of delivering what a normal emotionally healthy person can at this time. But I suspect you see some qualities in her that give you reason to go thru this. Learn what it means to validate, radically accept, validate, have patience, and did I mention validate. Also accept that you will make mistakes, but just learn from them, and don't let them affect your positive attitude.  Know for a fact that the only one that can change her is her. there is no assurance that things will work out, but what you can control is you, and your actions, and reactions. If you can search old post on this site by oceanheart, do! Many people on this site have been helpful to me, but she has a unique perspective. Learning to accept your BPDgf as she is without expectations today, and lifting yourself up in knowledge & skills & attitude are, in my opinion the most positive things you can do for her.

[purelove]

 
Marvin,

I did'nt send the flowers yet. I will have to do that on Friday. I did send her this message this morning, she loves music and the song I sent to her. I hope it is validating to her in some way?

Hi,

I wanted you to know that I understand that the way things are right now are the way they have to be.

I care for you and truly except you for exactly the beautiful, unique and wonderful person you are!

I heard this song for the first time when I was only 16 years old. I always dreamed of the woman that I could give this to.

As we go thru this time now, I am growing the skills I need in myself to be able to give this kinda of special love.

I have learned so much from you and I care for you, exactly who you are!

The song is Phillip Sandifer- "Always Let Her Dance" 

 

 

[flatspin]

Marvin,
I would really like to do that. I am concerned, the last card I sent her she did not even let me know she received it! I guess the doesn't mean she didn't appreciate it? I really need to change the way I think if I am going to accept her the way she is! If I send her flowers and she does not say thank you! I just cant assume that the gesture was not appreciated?

If she doesn't acknowledge the card or flowers, don't make assumptions. I can tell you that when my BPDgf goes thru the push cycle, she often doesn't acknowledge, but when she becomes regulated again she is thankful. Don't have any expectations. She just isn't capable of delivering what a normal emotionally healthy person can at this time. But I suspect you see some qualities in her that give you reason to go thru this. Learn what it means to validate, radically accept, validate, have patience, and did I mention validate. Also accept that you will make mistakes, but just learn from them, and don't let them affect your positive attitude.  Know for a fact that the only one that can change her is her. there is no assurance that things will work out, but what you can control is you, and your actions, and reactions. If you can search old post on this site by oceanheart, do! Many people on this site have been helpful to me, but she has a unique perspective. Learning to accept your BPDgf as she is without expectations today, and lifting yourself up in knowledge & skills & attitude are, in my opinion the most positive things you can do for her.

Dear Marvin,

Somehow, if flowers are sent, as whatever we do won't change them nor change the situation, does it mean that if we send flowers, we mainly do that for us, to soothe our pain and heal our wounds ? I meant; do they see a difference between flowers sent or us going back "with empty hands" from a 2-days stay in a hotel because of a serious spat ?

My reasoning may seem excessive and it was in order to emphasize what I mean.

Thank you in advance !

[purelove]

Interesting perspective FS!

I think I need to clearify my concerns a little better about "sending flowers".
I feel like at this point I could understand and deal with no response.

The concern I have is that the other night when I spoke with her she seemed to put alot emphasis on, her feeling pressured by me.
 In any other circumstance, I would not feel like I was being pressuring, in the least. She says that sending her text messages a few times a day puts pressure on her. I don't understand it? It seems like any kind of contact I try and make is percieved as presure to her when she is dysregulated. I am so new to this! I guess she feels like I expect a response to every bit of contact I make, which is not always the case.  Sometimes I just send her a smiley to let her know I am thinking of her. If this is presure to her. I am not sure if any thing I do except nothing would be a good idea?

[Marvin Martian]

Marvin,
I would really like to do that. I am concerned, the last card I sent her she did not even let me know she received it! I guess the doesn't mean she didn't appreciate it? I really need to change the way I think if I am going to accept her the way she is! If I send her flowers and she does not say thank you! I just cant assume that the gesture was not appreciated?

If she doesn't acknowledge the card or flowers, don't make assumptions. I can tell you that when my BPDgf goes thru the push cycle, she often doesn't acknowledge, but when she becomes regulated again she is thankful. Don't have any expectations. She just isn't capable of delivering what a normal emotionally healthy person can at this time. But I suspect you see some qualities in her that give you reason to go thru this. Learn what it means to validate, radically accept, validate, have patience, and did I mention validate. Also accept that you will make mistakes, but just learn from them, and don't let them affect your positive attitude.  Know for a fact that the only one that can change her is her. there is no assurance that things will work out, but what you can control is you, and your actions, and reactions. If you can search old post on this site by oceanheart, do! Many people on this site have been helpful to me, but she has a unique perspective. Learning to accept your BPDgf as she is without expectations today, and lifting yourself up in knowledge & skills & attitude are, in my opinion the most positive things you can do for her.

Dear Marvin,

Somehow, if flowers are sent, as whatever we do won't change them nor change the situation, does it mean that if we send flowers, we mainly do that for us, to soothe our pain and heal our wounds ? I meant; do they see a difference between flowers sent or us going back "with empty hands" from a 2-days stay in a hotel because of a serious spat ?

My reasoning may seem excessive and it was in order to emphasize what I mean.

Thank you in advance !

I just know what has worked for me. But don't send with expectations. They cannot process what you feel like after "empty hands", but when you send something small small, without expectations, mine seems to be able to process that. A friend is married [very rocky] to a BPD, and has lavished her with very expensive gifts. This has backfired on a multiple of occasions. It can invalidating if you have low self esteem that someone over does caring, emotion, gifts, etc. I mean, if they believe they are nothing, and little self worth, how can they give back to you? The attitude of " It just is" works better than "did you notice what I did for you?". Its counter to what most of us learn as kids, to give back to those that give to you. I know any time I forget this, problems are sure to follow.

[purelove]

It looks like there was some lost posts here on this thread? Will they come back or should I fill them back in?

[jessicapuppy]

Argh...sorry Pure Love, you are probably aware that we had a rare problem with the site, where some things couldn't be recovered!  Really frustrating for all of us, but all of the voluntary staff here have worked hard to bring back as much as they could possibly recover.  I expect that if it's not here now, it will not be recovered.

How are things with you now?

JP
x

[purelove]

JP,

I am doing OK. Thanks for asking! I have had very little contact with my friend at the current time. I sent her a card and some flowers and plants in a basket for mothers days and recieved a FB instant message on Wen. of the following week. The text said "thanks for the card and plant, hope you are well". I did'nt have much in the way of expectations, thankfully.

In the week before Mother's Day,  I pushed "as she calls it", just by not excepting quietly, her continued pulling away from me by DISAPPEARING like she does. She gives me the silent treatment not accepting or offering any communications at all. I just texted her to stop the BS and be real with me. That I would care for her no matter what was going on if she is going to disappear I would have no choice but to do the same. i called once no response.

 If you remember, her and I live far from each other and we have'nt see each other for 26 years. I know, How did I get so wrapped up in her, right? Well, I have been using this time to reflect on that and, I think the idealization phase can be intoxicating, even from afar! But, I ignored many red flags along the way. When felt it was going right, I just held on tighter, saw and felt how I was being co-dependant at times. I have learned and am still learning things about myself from this situation. Life is a learning process to the end.   

 I have been focusing more on myself and my growth , thanks in part to all of you guys here! I care for her still, there is no doubt but, with the time that has been passing ...I gotta go now, finish this later.

[purelove]

ok, soory to leave this open for so long! I have been lurking on the leaving board and others learning some things to decide what is the best next step for me. I have decided to send my last communication to her. I did it two days ago. It was not a perfect letter but I think it summed things up pretty good gave me some closure and I am moving on...

Here is a copy.. would love to hear everyones thoughts on it and on my dcecision. Thanks to all of you here you have been an blessing to me at this confusing time



My intention is never to be mean, I am not a mean person and you know that! I make mistakes sometimes. But, my faith returns me to be patient, humble, and forgiving and asking for forgiveness when I do make mistakes.
This continued silent treatment has had a big impact on me. I have learned that I need to respect myself enough to let go of a situation that is not healthy for me. I would be open to a friendship with you in the future. I need to heal first, from what has happended between us. Over the past few weeks, I continue to look for answers to what you may be going thru by reading articles, online resources, books, using a disscussion group or Blog, to try to understand. I have only begun to understand what maybe going on in your life because of the situation you had to endure growing up, and without open honest communication between us I probably will never understand fully.

As you began to share some of this with me a few months ago, something changed and you kicked me away from you and it has never been the same since. It is obivisious to me now that I know very, very little about what really goes on in your life. I pray now that you have a very, very emotionally strong significant other in the person you are with now. From all i am learning there is a therapy called DBT Dialectical Behavioral Therapy that can be very helpful to break the cycle of problems that continue in ones life and relationships. I don't know for sure that it fits you exactly, but it helps alot different types of people and problems. Maybe, if you don't already know about it you could look into it.
As I have shared with you, I also believe that a daily spiritual relationship helps in a supernatural way! I still don't know really exactly where you are spiritually. I have shared much of my own with you and, I hope you were able to see my true soul and God's Holy Spirit in me. With all this being said, I want you to know that, you have gifts from God that are so special and unique to you. Those gifts have helped me learn much about myself. I treasure your uniqueness and many qualities you posses!
 God put you in my life and I know he does not make mistakes.
 I look inward into myself more than I have ever done before in my life. I am now focusing on what I have learned and begining the process of changing the way I look at relationships and how I let people treat me. It is very difficult to stay focused inward when I continue to look to you for support and friendship. I will not at the current time continue to do that. You and your family will still be in my prayers. I will live one day at a time becoming stronger in my faith and my own emotional well being. Maybe our paths will cross again, I hope so, I would love to hear you really happy and healthy, if it is God's will it will be done. purelove!
 

 I borrowed this from the Blog that I have been using to learn what may be happening in your life, only for you to see how silent treatment can be to someone that cares for you. My hope is that you will see something in it that will help you understand and not do it again to anyone else that cares for you. I know it is not easy to look inward at ones self and make changes it is so so hard to do. God's love and Spirit is the only way it became possible for me!
 
FROM "FACING THE FACTS":
 Silence a.k.a. Withholding is the most damaging and hurtful form of verbal abuse. One might think that in order for the behavior to be considered verbally abusive words need to be spoken. This misunderstanding of verbal abuse adds to the recipient_