separation anxiety

[Think About It...]

admittedly, ive never been in a rebound relationship, and am not a pwBPD.

i understand completely how they manage to replace us, the process, the painting us black, the complex but relatively simple manner in which they attach to a new "host", splitting, even dissociation. okay. i know they experience separation anxiety though, thats clear. i know its somewhat different, if not more powerful than what we feel, that they feel, on a much stronger level as if a piece of them is missing, that they have lost their identity (us), feel empty, alone, etc. i also know that there is more to it than separation anxiety. and i know it isnt unique to us, its unique to whoever they are attached to.

okay. i get all that. what i dont get is that when they DO replace us, despite in some cases them going a bit crazier, and perhaps their abandonment fears at an all time high...they just dont seem to experience what we would recognize as "separation anxiety". i know they experience plenty of other things. but separation anxiety is something they are capable of feeling, and its a human reaction. i have to imagine if i jumped in a rebound relationship, i would most definitely still feel it. sure i could soothe it to some extent, and certainly they can, if not to a greater extent.

i dunno if im just reading too deeply into this or not, but its something ive been thinking about. for all that they do experience, it just seems like when they have someone new to attach to, they dont tend to exhibit separation anxiety, from the person they were separated from, heightened abandonment fears or not.

anyway, interested in others thoughts.

[luckystrikes]

admittedly, ive never been in a rebound relationship, and am not a pwBPD.

i understand completely how they manage to replace us, the process, the painting us black, the complex but relatively simple manner in which they attach to a new "host", splitting, even dissociation. okay. i know they experience separation anxiety though, thats clear. i know its somewhat different, if not more powerful than what we feel, that they feel, on a much stronger level as if a piece of them is missing, that they have lost their identity (us), feel empty, alone, etc. i also know that there is more to it than separation anxiety. and i know it isnt unique to us, its unique to whoever they are attached to.

okay. i get all that. what i dont get is that when they DO replace us, despite in some cases them going a bit crazier, and perhaps their abandonment fears at an all time high...they just dont seem to experience what we would recognize as "separation anxiety". i know they experience plenty of other things. but separation anxiety is something they are capable of feeling, and its a human reaction. i have to imagine if i jumped in a rebound relationship, i would most definitely still feel it. sure i could soothe it to some extent, and certainly they can, if not to a greater extent.

i dunno if im just reading too deeply into this or not, but its something ive been thinking about. for all that they do experience, it just seems like when they have someone new to attach to, they dont tend to exhibit separation anxiety, from the person they were separated from, heightened abandonment fears or not.

anyway, interested in others thoughts.

[freedee]

Hi Lucky

My ex BPD was drunk (drinking) every moment especially in the early days of our relationship when he was 4 women beyond his loved one, still mourning their separation. He spoke about it, how he thought she was unfaithful etc. whilst drunk. He had no remorse for the dumpings of the 4 other poor women in between but still grieving his loss. He was quite open about the fact that he dumped his ladyfriend the day before the evening he first dated me (he of course didn't share that with me in early days) and was obviously full of disdain for these women who he claimed he used for sex and as a distraction from the pain of separation.

So I think you may be right ...they may have some real sadness/separation anxiety  for particular partners they consider significant... and self medicating obviously helps as most adults in the western world find 'cept me - BPD or not.

We need to hear from a moderator, advisor or ambassador on this one maybe?
Cheers

[luckystrikes]

the more i think about it the more i think im just overthinking it. it is probably a matter of "its more complicated and complex" than separation anxiety, and perhaps not that they dont feel it at all, but have some pretty serious soothing/coping mechanisms. i dont know. i do feel like i understand how they can either give the impression, or genuinely jump in a new relationship and never look back...im just kinda wondering how this one symptom in particular at least appears to be skipped only in the event they jump in a new relationship.

[oletimefeelin]

I'm not sure if I completely understand what you're driving at here.  When I think separation anxiety, I think dogs getting worked up before their owner goes to work or little kids getting anxious when the babysitter shows up.  In both cases, the concern is the person will never come back.  So if I read you right you're asking do they remember you or do they get anxious that you're gone and will never come back.

Obviously, they have a completely dysfunction way of interacting with those close to them, right? No one in their right mind will put up with all that.  So they've come to see personal relationships as tenuous.  As such they have these beautiful coping mechanisms.  The most delightful of which is the lack of object constancy.  I honestly wish I could buy me some for times like this.

I can only speak for my ex.  She seems different then others mentioned here yet the same.  High-functioning, perfectionistic from a loving family with definite histrionic traits.  She claims to have loved only one other person, and I saw it with my own two eyes.  I had played things very cool with her for a period of a few months.  Then she started acting odd (to say the least) and eventually one night I spilled the beans.  The next day she was nearly bed ridden.  Late that night she told me I should "f with" her if I'm not serious.  Then she went on about how raw her last break up was (more than a year earlier).  It was intense.  She went on to say he knew she didn't want to be with him, but that I was like a death etc.  

My guess is some do and some don't.  Some of us are just placeholders and some are meaningful connections that will never die no matter how hard they try.  My ex told me she always jumped right back in the pool, but it took her a year after we were kaput to do that with someone else.  She said a lot of stuff, but who knows what meant what really.
  

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[luckystrikes]

heh, thats okay, i wasnt totally sure what i was driving at either.

i know certainly that what *I* was experiencing at the time was separation anxiety among other things. perhaps thats understating it. in a sense im asking "why dont they go through what we go through", but thats not exactly what im asking either, because there are several answers for that. maybe i wasnt taking into account the lack of object constancy. because for all they do experience, they also cant 'recall' us like we can them, hence our separation anxiety?

actually i think that answers it, frankly. i was sorta kinda asking why they dont seem to remember us the way we do them, object constancy would speak to that. they experience the same thing when theyre with us, but the attachment is still intact.

i was confused as to what you spilled the beans about?

[soul]

I think that once they are with the new person, that is what they are doing. They are no longer separated, they are already getting their needs met by the love interest. They were never really connected to ' US ' in the first place. Their real fear is the void of being totally alone, and at the same time being engulfed. Many Borderlines have prepared the ground to jump ship long before they do. They minimise the amount of time they might feel separation anxiety by the feeling of already ' being ' with someone.

I think they get the new person on their side, and then the anxiety is catered for. Maybe this would explain why they make bad decisions and act from impulse a lot. I don't think old loves come up on their radar, more than just in passing. My borderline had only left her husband two weeks before I met her, though I didn't know for years that this was the case. She never spoke about him in terms of how she felt, just how bad he was as a person.

just thoughts
best
nick

[luckystrikes]

nick, i agree, and youre a heck of an articulate fella.

i guess im also trying to distinguish between whether or not they do actually experience what we know as separation anxiety before they replace us, and assuming no one is lined up...and assuming they dont have a number of people to give them attention. thats why it confuses me that they wouldnt feel that even when they do replace us. i can get that most of their needs and longings are met and soothed, and i get that they can transfer the attachment with relative ease. heck i get that they dont even "miss us" as we understand it, and i guess thats gotta be it. the lack of object constancy.

in my case though, the truth was very different than the appearance. i spent about a month agonizing over the "is my ex even THINKING of me?". all evidence suggested she wasnt. around the month mark, not long before i learned about BPD, i discovered she was invading the email attached to my facebook and able to read the messages i received. she was doing this daily, even while she was living in this guys home, usually between 3 am and 5 am when i imagine he either fell asleep or went to work. i understand whats up with that now. and its not at all what id call separation anxiety. there may have been some effort to 'recall' from the lack of object constancy. she was also searching for sign of another girl. it actually never dawned on me, but i suspect schwing was right when he suggested to me that that was also projection, her assuming because she had another guy, that i must have another girl. plus the sky high abandonment fears and unstable feelings, and checking to see if i was still available to her. but its like in the midst of all these different things, they still cant seem to experience actually 'missing us'. i guess i kinda lean toward no, they dont even really experience that when theyre with us.

[oletimefeelin]

Oh, you know I got carried away.  I love you's had been exchanged a month or so prior.  After a late night and a few pops I got rolling on and didn't stop.  It was straight out of a lifetime movie but better.  Freaked her out in a big way. I think it made her fear losing me even more.  A few weeks later she got out of control trying to get me to move in.  Ah, the memories...

[soul]

Thanks LuckyStrikes

I guess you have the separation anxiety, abandonment fears and also rejection issues all in the mix. I am not sure that separation is an issue for them, feeling rejected or abandoned very much is a part of their disorder, as you are aware.

I think it feels more to them like panic, I guess you could say a panic attack. Like a rabbit caught in the lights, they just run for safety and once there, all is well and they no longer feel the panic. Of course unhappiness soon catches up with them, as they don't understand what happened, and if they do, then they fear it will happen again. And so the cycle continues.

What happened to simple love and romance ... ?

best
nick

[suz124w]

luckystrikes

You may be interested to hear this.

When I ended the relationship with my exuBPD, he was initially 'distraught'.  I had the phone calls, texts, pleading emails over a week long period.  By the time I agreed to see him to discuss it all later in the week, he had turned it around to him 'ending it because I didn't really him in my life' and he confessed (under duress) that he was already looking for my replacement on a dating site.

I became distraught myself to think how easily he could erase me after 3 years.  His behaviour had completely changed.  He was quite self possessed and soon started painting me black and telling me how unhappy he had been with me etc... it was quite shocking and very hurtful.

It seemed he had moved on very swiftly.  Now I feel a fool for worrying so much about how he might take it!

I really think if there is  a potential prospect, they don't give much thought to the ex and certainly don't consider our feelings.  I was accused of being callous which is rich considering...

It's really hard to think I am still suffering from this.  It's a school of hard knocks being with a BPD, I can tell you and the biggest shock is the realisation at the end!  Normal rules do not apply.  Throw them out!

[suz124w]

luckystrikes

4got to say that I was contacted again on a couple of occasions later on but I realise now that I'd been relegated to the comforter role (he actually thanked me for the reassuring words!).  Like someone said, I was no longer the main man but had become some Aunt Tilley figure that you get around to calling sometimes when you're feeling down sometimes.

Realising that made me go NC.  We can have compassion but being used is being used.  Do you really think they would comfort us in times of need?


NO!

[luckystrikes]

Oh, you know I got carried away.  I love you's had been exchanged a month or so prior.  After a late night and a few pops I got rolling on and didn't stop.  It was straight out of a lifetime movie but better.  Freaked her out in a big way. I think it made her fear losing me even more.  A few weeks later she got out of control trying to get me to move in.  Ah, the memories...

okay, gotcha. that was the one difference in this relationship for me as opposed to the others. i always had one foot out the door. it always seemed to me thats why she never really withdrew or was particularly uncomfortable with intimacy, although there were some issues that more or less manifested from the intimacy issue. man, ive thrown a lot of lines at women myself. i almost feel shallow in retrospect, because i cant even fathom having feelings for these people, and i feel to some extent like i was practicing. so a lot of what i did (though i really just couldnt take her, ever) was learned behavior and defense mechanisms. and mind you, they did not cushion the outcome.

[luckystrikes]

luckystrikes

You may be interested to hear this.

When I ended the relationship with my exuBPD, he was initially 'distraught'.  I had the phone calls, texts, pleading emails over a week long period.  By the time I agreed to see him to discuss it all later in the week, he had turned it around to him 'ending it because I didn't really him in my life' and he confessed (under duress) that he was already looking for my replacement on a dating site.

I became distraught myself to think how easily he could erase me after 3 years.  His behaviour had completely changed.  He was quite self possessed and soon started painting me black and telling me how unhappy he had been with me etc... it was quite shocking and very hurtful.

It seemed he had moved on very swiftly.  Now I feel a fool for worrying so much about how he might take it!

I really think if there is  a potential prospect, they don't give much thought to the ex and certainly don't consider our feelings.  I was accused of being callous which is rich considering...

It's really hard to think I am still suffering from this.  It's a school of hard knocks being with a BPD, I can tell you and the biggest shock is the realisation at the end!  Normal rules do not apply.  Throw them out!

hi suz, always interested

looks like we were both in it three years, my breakup actually almost went in reverse of yours. it was seemingly sudden and overnight, there was the sudden distance. took me a couple of days to notice it. i caught her in a fib around this time (a really really weird one) and i suspect that played a role, as we started fighting. she hung up on me and wouldnt answer my call. for the first time i started to panic over her, as this was familiar. finally she called me back. she was somewhat comforting and we both calmed down. but then her tone changed. i dont remember what she said, but it struck me. i asked her "ex, have you been thinking about breaking up with me?" "yes." sounded as if it might have been through tears. i was stunned. to this day though, it feels like somewhere inside me i felt relief. so what followed was a fairly ambiguous conversation. i didnt beg or plead, but i made the case for our relationship. she backtracked slightly. all i would get was "i dont know" and "i dont know what i want". i mean, the rest was all obvious, and one could have concluded she was clearly breaking up with me, but i believe with good reason that she was incapable of pulling the switch. there was a lot of "i want to be single". insisting there was no one else. laughing at the idea. telling me "wanting to be single" did not mean she wanted to have sex with people. so, again, ambiguous ending, i was not certain that wed broken up, but it was not at all hostile or on a bad note. i waited a couple of days, a basket case, while she posted every random thought in her brain on facebook. on monday, i thought it looked a little pathetic to still say i was in a relationship when she didnt even have her status listed (didnt take long for that to become a hint). so i didnt change it to single, i removed it as well, and i changed my profile picture, as it had been a playdough sculpture of my face. something between us. this was apparently seen not as taking her seriously, but as the ultimate abandonment. her ex friends would confirm that for me later on. it made no sense to me at the time, but it suddenly did when i learned about BPD. so her answer was to drag my doppelganger into flirting with her all over her wall. the hostility just made no sense. i jabbed back a little after she ignored my text, by 'liking' a comment hed left about one of my own favorite movies. you know. to call attention to the whole doppelganger thing. i knew it would piss her off, but i got my dignity back. instead of removing me as a friend she blocked me from her wall and put up a picture where id been cropped out. she was officially in a relationship with him in ten days, made a big show of it and deleted me and my associates.

they only do it because they have to, you know. they certainly dont consider our feelings, because they more or less feel we wronged them and are evil, and if we feel anything, we deserve it for the hell we put them through   . on paper it does look unimaginable that wed spend a second thinking anything but disdain for these people, but we are human. but no, theres really no way to get out unscathed from this, no matter how it ends, whether we end it or they do. i always imagined itd have been easier for me, but if that were the caes, id have done it. the guilt would have been unbearable. but in your case (im presuming) and in mine, it was a lot of what happened in the end that caused me to stumble upon BPD, which was the beginning of healing. not sure id ever have done that otherwise.

and no. i dont know about everyone else's case, but my ex really did not meet the level of compassion and empathy ive always desired. now i know why.

ps. i didnt really get into that if not the first night, by the second night i started to have a very strong suspicion (our guts are like psychics when it comes to dealing with pwBPD) that there was someone else. there was absolutely zero evidence, well, except for deleting my valentines wish, and removing her relationship status. but shed never even publicly talked to the guy before. man i was stunned when i turned out right.

[bb12]

LuckyStrikes - I think what you're getting at (and I may be wrong) is how little they demonstrate any kind of loss or emotion. And it does eat us up. I tried to be friends wiht mine and he was already onto new supply. I was happy for him, although it all seemed a bit quick. But over the coming months I looked for signs of regret or melancholy about us failing. Nothing.
I was never sure whether it was a deliberate effort on his part to present an overly contented exterior or whether he was just deliriously happy. EIther way, it made me feel crap and I am sure there was an element of deliberateness to it. But on reading about the disorder, I probably do tend to agree that they just move on. It was never really about us, but more a filling of a void. Once that is catered to, they don't think about us or reflect or regret or...empathise. They just don't.
It's very sad and hard to process, but it really is a matter of out of sight, out of mind.
Which brings into question the amount we projected or invented in our relationship...
BB12

[redberry]

I agree with the others.  I have yet to hear of anyone who has remained "friends" with their BPD after the breakup.  The BPD either paints us black and burns the bridge completely.  Or they just move on to new supply and you're treated like a salesman who keeps knocking at their door.  They may be cordial, but they have no interest in buying anything.  We're interrupting what (well... who) they really want to be doing.  They just want us to go away because we are no longer of use.