What did I do and How do I Fix it?

[Think About It...]

Hello all!

I'm just going to keep the intro short and just say...he's mad at me. Again. I will mention that I have posted previously about how whenever I have to head back to school we end up fighting long distance. Also, we had a pretty good day yesterday, and it started well enough today, and it went downhill very fast. Can anyone see what I did and ultimately what I can say to fix it?

*Starting from a previous normal conversation*
Me: Speech. Open book, open note. I got done way early.
Him: ?
Me: What?
Him: That's original. "What?" lame.
Me: What was i supposed to say to "?"
Him: Anything but "what" >:/
Me: Fine. 42. (props if you know the reference I'm making  here  )

Me: Well i don't know where you were going with that, so now i'm confused. Have a good afternoon. I'll tell you how my other test went later.
Him: Whatever. Have a nice f*ckin day.
Me: I love you.
Me: Hey. This would be pointless to get mad over. I want to be happy and talking with you. I didn't totally butcher my final i think. Now no more german! yes!
Him: Too f*cking late just drop it already.
Him: Or don't talk to me. Which ever works better for  you. So long as we get some f*cking change; i'm sick of the same old sht over and over.
Me: Your message just got to me and i'm working (which both were true) It's not that I don't want to talk to you.
Him: Whatever.
Me: I'll be off early anyway, i don't have a lot of work left.
Him: Whatever (my name, which, I will note, he ALWAYS capitalizes. This time he did not)
Me: Ouch. You must really be mad; at what, i really don't know.
Him: And what makes you say that?
Me: You told me you always made sure to capitalize my name. You didn't in that last message.
Him: So what.
Him: So what's your point?
Me: So you must be upset or distracted to not capitalize my name.
Him: What's. Your. Point? Just answer the question before you really piss me off.
Me: That you clearly must think less of me for some reason because you didn't capitalize my name like you said you always make sure to do; that you are mad at me for some reason. That is my point.
Him: That's a crappy point.
Me: Why do you think so?
Him: I know so. It's completely stereotypical of the situation. Instead of trying to find out what the problem is, you go and point out the overly obvious fact that there is one!
Me: Well at least i understand that there is one. You have yet to tell me what it is, and i can't read your mind.
Him: God forbid you ask!
Me: I never ask the right way! I would like to know what's on your mind, what is wrong.
Him: No. You wouldn't. F*ck off.
Me: Yes i would! Don't tell me what i would and would not like to do! And i'm not going to stop bugging you until you tell me what's wrong. Nothing will get solved if you don't.
Me: Seriously, i do not enjoy pissing you off. Do you enjoy being mad at me?
Him: Attacking me and guilt tripping me are the exact opposite ways to go about getting what you want. Goodbye.
Me: Then please tell me how i go about doing so. I am sorry you feel attacked. I feel like i have to jump through hoops to get you to tell me things that you expect me to just come out and say. How do i get through to you?
Him: No. Figure it out yourself.
Me: What is it [his name]? I want you to tell me. I'll just start with basics so i know what's going on. Did i do something to upset you?

And that's it so far. It's still an active conversation. Where did I go wrong? What do I do? Does any of it make sense to anybody? I'll keep updating the conversation...please help!

[RedRightAnkle]

Hello all!

I'm just going to keep the intro short and just say...he's mad at me. Again. I will mention that I have posted previously about how whenever I have to head back to school we end up fighting long distance. Also, we had a pretty good day yesterday, and it started well enough today, and it went downhill very fast. Can anyone see what I did and ultimately what I can say to fix it?

*Starting from a previous normal conversation*
Me: Speech. Open book, open note. I got done way early.
Him: ?
Me: What?
Him: That's original. "What?" lame.
Me: What was i supposed to say to "?"
Him: Anything but "what" >:/
Me: Fine. 42. (props if you know the reference I'm making  here  )

Me: Well i don't know where you were going with that, so now i'm confused. Have a good afternoon. I'll tell you how my other test went later.
Him: Whatever. Have a nice f*ckin day.
Me: I love you.
Me: Hey. This would be pointless to get mad over. I want to be happy and talking with you. I didn't totally butcher my final i think. Now no more german! yes!
Him: Too f*cking late just drop it already.
Him: Or don't talk to me. Which ever works better for  you. So long as we get some f*cking change; i'm sick of the same old sht over and over.
Me: Your message just got to me and i'm working (which both were true) It's not that I don't want to talk to you.
Him: Whatever.
Me: I'll be off early anyway, i don't have a lot of work left.
Him: Whatever (my name, which, I will note, he ALWAYS capitalizes. This time he did not)
Me: Ouch. You must really be mad; at what, i really don't know.
Him: And what makes you say that?
Me: You told me you always made sure to capitalize my name. You didn't in that last message.
Him: So what.
Him: So what's your point?
Me: So you must be upset or distracted to not capitalize my name.
Him: What's. Your. Point? Just answer the question before you really piss me off.
Me: That you clearly must think less of me for some reason because you didn't capitalize my name like you said you always make sure to do; that you are mad at me for some reason. That is my point.
Him: That's a crappy point.
Me: Why do you think so?
Him: I know so. It's completely stereotypical of the situation. Instead of trying to find out what the problem is, you go and point out the overly obvious fact that there is one!
Me: Well at least i understand that there is one. You have yet to tell me what it is, and i can't read your mind.
Him: God forbid you ask!
Me: I never ask the right way! I would like to know what's on your mind, what is wrong.
Him: No. You wouldn't. F*ck off.
Me: Yes i would! Don't tell me what i would and would not like to do! And i'm not going to stop bugging you until you tell me what's wrong. Nothing will get solved if you don't.
Me: Seriously, i do not enjoy pissing you off. Do you enjoy being mad at me?
Him: Attacking me and guilt tripping me are the exact opposite ways to go about getting what you want. Goodbye.
Me: Then please tell me how i go about doing so. I am sorry you feel attacked. I feel like i have to jump through hoops to get you to tell me things that you expect me to just come out and say. How do i get through to you?
Him: No. Figure it out yourself.
Me: What is it [his name]? I want you to tell me. I'll just start with basics so i know what's going on. Did i do something to upset you?

And that's it so far. It's still an active conversation. Where did I go wrong? What do I do? Does any of it make sense to anybody? I'll keep updating the conversation...please help!

[pallavirajsinghani]

You did not do anything wrong.  He was just dysregulated, that's all.  Perhaps once you start to sense his irritation and anger, it is time to gently disengage from the conversation.  Saying calmly, with no derogatory inflexion in your tone that you will talk when you both are calm.  Then don't answer any text until you are really in a condition yourself to handle his dysregulation peacefully.

It is always not your tone, or your fault nor you always be the cure for his irritability.

I am not saying this in anger at all, just pointing out that it seems to me that you are assuming that you were the cause of his anger.  The only thing I can think of your doing wrong is to let this type of  unproductive and confusing conversation drag on for too long. 

Have you looked at the "Lessons" and "Tools" of communication?  They are really helpful.

I am sorry to see you upset and glad that you are actively looking to understand and find a solution.

God bless.

[megocean]

I can see myself in your pushing to find out what's wrong. And after the fact, I often can figure out when I should have let things lie. That was probably when he told you to have a nice f*ckin day. Time to say 'talk later' and then let him cool off about whatever was chewing on him. Don't beat yourself up--you can't fix other people, and it's bad for them when you try to. Easier said than done! We have all been there; the temptation when you love someone to try and sort things out in the moment LOOMS.

[LoveNotWar]

I have learned when my h drops the "f" bomb we are going to go downhill fast and that's a signal for me to lovingly take a break from the conversation.

It took me FOREVER to learn this and at first when I set that as a boundary my h told me to grow up...everyone uses the F word. But it's what comes AFTER the F word I am trying to avoid. 

[JustSaying]

Maybe read up on circular arguments. Usually we're far into them before we realize it. But learning how to escape from them is important. There were many opportunities to back away from this conversation, including before giving him the answer to the question of life, the universe, and everything, which, if he grokked it, was a bit of a sarcastic response.

[LoveNotWar]

Yes! Circular Arguments...good advice. I think I need to re-read that again myself. 

[RedRightAnkle]

Thanks you guys! It's been a bit mind-boggling, and this happens a lot. He just gets mad for no reason.

Thank you for the reality check It also makes it hard to validate him when I don't even know what I could have done...and then he makes me figure it out for myself; I feel like that tells me he doesn't even know what he's mad about.

Here's my hang-up on backing off - his abandonment fears kick in really quickly. He starts accusing me of not wanting to be with him, that I've always been leading him on, that I don't care, etc. Then I'm always afraid when I feel it's right to contact him he won't answer me. This is the most frustrating thing though - he'll tell me to go away, to f*ck off, that kind of thing; then when I decided to back off and go, "Ok, I'll leave you alone," he gets mad that I left him alone! He TESTS me. It infuriates me. I'm terrified of setting boundaries most of the time.

@Just saying:
Well I had no idea where he was going with the "?". He still refuses to tell me what his problem with that was. I was being sarcastic; i didn't know what else to do.

As for how it's going now - it's still going. I'm basically playing 20 questions with him right now, and he's telling me to go away again. Agh...

[JustSaying]

Well I had no idea where he was going with the "?". He still refuses to tell me what his problem with that was. I was being sarcastic; i didn't know what else to do.

The first thing is to recognize the train is off the rails. When you don't know where he's going with the "?", you can choose to play the "what do you mean" game like you're still doing, or you can accept that this is headed into dangerous territory and stop trying to figure it out. (I don't claim to be good at that, and in my own life, just gave up and walked away.)

I'm basically playing 20 questions with him right now

So the first step is to recognize futility and change what you're doing to something else. Right now you know it's futile, but you're still pursuing an answer in the same way. It hasn't worked yet, so what's the likelihood of it working by continuing with the same line of reasoning? Break the pattern.

Hey, I get the props for 42 though, right? Ha ha.

[GreenMango]

RRA,

I normally don't post on Staying, but I was reading your post.  I felt compelled to.  I'm not in the relationship with my BPDxbf anymore but I wanted to say I feel for you.  I remember these types of conversations very clearly.  Your's brought back sooo many memories, not all bad either.

I had the best luck with my ex in conversations like this when I did the things the other members recommended.

Once I realized it was a circular argument or it was a lose-lose on the particular conversation I would usually step-back with love.  And text, was notorious for prolonging our back and forth fighting.

Have you tried disengaging from this particular argument with something like, I can see you are upset right now when you are ready to talk to me I'll be here.  And then I would wait to let him come down off this particular rollercoaster.  It's easier to talk, if you do bring this up, when they aren't upset.  I found I was looking for answers from someone who, when very emotional, barely had answers for himself.

Hang in there and check out those communication tools other members recommend.      I know it can be really frustrating.

-GM

PS the 42 I get and thinks it's funny, but if he gets it I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it was invalidating for him.

[JustSaying]

Have you tried disengaging from this particular argument with something like, I can see you are upset right now when you are ready to talk to me I'll be here.  And then I would wait to let him come down off this particular rollercoaster.

With my X, there seemed to be no good out. I tried so many different things and they each got worse results than the other. But I have another difficult-ish person in my life, and I've had more luck with using tools and good communication techniques. While GreenMango follows the construct of "I see you are ____, and so I will ____," an approach that's worked better for me is to say, "I have to go do _____ right now, but I'll talk to you again ______." For me this avoids telling the other person what they're feeling (which is how I'd take it, and I hate being told what I'm feeling), while also reinforcing to the person that I'm not abandoning them and will be back in touch tonight, tomorrow, next week, or whatever.

Neither is more right than the other. Just one more thing to try.

[GreenMango]

Have you tried disengaging from this particular argument with something like, I can see you are upset right now when you are ready to talk to me I'll be here.  And then I would wait to let him come down off this particular rollercoaster.

With my X, there seemed to be no good out. I tried so many different things and they each got worse results than the other. But I have another difficult-ish person in my life, and I've had more luck with using tools and good communication techniques. While GreenMango follows the construct of "I see you are ____, and so I will ____," an approach that's worked better for me is to say, "I have to go do _____ right now, but I'll talk to you again ______." For me this avoids telling the other person what they're feeling (which is how I'd take it, and I hate being told what I'm feeling), while also reinforcing to the person that I'm not abandoning them and will be back in touch tonight, tomorrow, next week, or whatever.

Neither is more right than the other. Just one more thing to try.

JustSaying made a really good point it really depends on your ex and how they usually handle it.  You would know him the best.  But, the disengaging without argument is really the point.  Not to feed the fire so to speak or their fears unnecessarily.

-GM

[RedRightAnkle]

I have tried a lot of things - he's so touchy, even asking him a question with a certain wording will throw him off. I guess the best way is to just back off altogether.

And yes JustSaying, total props   I freaking love those books.

GM, thank you for your reply! I feel really special that you wanted to take the time to do so Thanks for your tips, and I thin JustSaying's advice fits well; he hates when I tell him he's angry or tell him he's upset. Convincing him that I will be back later and that I still love him is the hardest part.

Thanks so much! 

*Update: I think it passed. He's playing video games. He told me he was too busy killing people to fight with me right now. Talking about his game usually brings him back into a good mood...but it's always so confusing when he just snaps right out of his funk 0_o

[JustSaying]

The only thing that ever sort of worked with X was finding a common enemy. If I was caught in a go-nowhere discussion and could think of a third-party target--a bad neighbor, a politician, a store she didn't like--that might distract her from crapping on me. Something else to try.

"Squirrel!"

[BelievenHope]

So as I was reading the interchange of texts, all I could think of was "holy cow, this could have been my conversation a while back". I used to do those circular arguments...ugh, it is so frustrating because your heart is really in the right place...and of course I agree about the f bomb, it is usually ALL DOWNHILL from there. I think the "I love you" should have been the last or second to last response (the last being something about being sorry you have to go). I have learned how much of a waste of time it is to try to figure out what is wrong when they are dysregulating. I let him know I love him and I am always here for him and he often replies with a "you don't have to be, I don't need anyone" to which I respond "I respect your feelings and I don't tell you how to feel, please don't tell me how to feel"...I always find out later exactly what was really bothering him...a few silent hours go by and then he texts with an "I hate my life, my boss did this to me..." or "my kids are total slobs"...at which point I can work on validation Love the lessons and advice and tools here  

[GreenMango]

I have tried a lot of things - he's so touchy, even asking him a question with a certain wording will throw him off. I guess the best way is to just back off altogether.

And yes JustSaying, total props    I freaking love those books.

GM, thank you for your reply! I feel really special that you wanted to take the time to do so Thanks for your tips, and I thin JustSaying's advice fits well; he hates when I tell him he's angry or tell him he's upset. Convincing him that I will be back later and that I still love him is the hardest part.

We are in, or were in, the same boat at one time.  That's what we are all here for.  

It's really hard to convince someone, who at the time believes you don't love them considering their perceptions are reality, that you still love him.  I found it was a "show" him factor, by being there after or not "biting" on the fishing expedition of conflict.

And JustSaying's point of not telling someone how they feel is very important.  I know mine wanted a non-threatening ambiguous acknowledgment of his feelings in some form but didn't want to talk about it immediately, if ever...but that isn't every person with BPD.

*Update: I think it passed. He's playing video games. He told me he was too busy killing people to fight with me right now. Talking about his game usually brings him back into a good mood...but it's always so confusing when he just snaps right out of his funk 0_o

This sounds familiar too...I used to think Thank God for video games.  .  As fast as they leave the tracks, they can get right back on.

"Squirrel" is right JS.   ;p


Hang in there RedRightAnkle it can get easier...I sometimes wish I would have found the Staying Board and this site early enough in my relationship.

-GM

[Dynamic]

I like JustSaying's approach. Thanks for sharing. Yesterday, when I tried to leave the place when my H was getting all worked up, I told him that we can talk later when he calms down. He got more angry stating that I started a fight & now I am saying that he has to calm down. BTW, he as usual started the arguement for nothing. So I think it is a good idea to say that I have to go some place & we will talk later. It's best to leave after saying that. I am still learning, putting those lessons into practice & figuring out what will work for a particular situation.

And yes, I am also used to those countless circular arguements, at the end of which the actual problem would have been forgotten. Now I know better. I think I did well yesterday compared to previous times when I did not know that H was a possible BPD & was clueless of how to handle him. Going through those lessons & learning to know to respond during BPD's outbursts comes in real handy.

Another thing, it is hard as it is when talking to a BPD in person. I think even with non BPDs, it is easy to misunderstand by reading emails especially texts where the messages are exchanged in quick succession in the heat of the moment without time to edit typos or change the words to improve the tone. When it is suggested to nons to get away from arguements in person with BPD, I think it is a good idea to avoid texting (except for emergency or to communicate something short & quick)especially when pwBPD is in one of their crazy moods. My two cents. RRA, don't lose heart. You can never win these circular arguements with a BPD. Been there, done it. Not any more.

[BelievenHope]

...I sometimes wish I would have found the Staying Board and this site early enough in my relationship
WOW...that is a pretty powerful statement...gives me more hope for sure if someone with that much experience here thins this board is that helpful thank you!

[Dynamic]

This forum is my only solace since I cannot share all the details with anyone else. Only last week I came to know that H is pwBPD. So I am in the process of equipping myself with all the available tools. I wish I took his symptoms more seriously when I came across this site about 6 months back. Well at least I did now.

[LoveNotWar]

Better late than never right?

When our conversation goes downhill here's what works for us...I say "this conversation is getting too tense for me, I need a break" or something similar.  I'm consistent, I own the need for a break and I don't stick around for it to get worse. I try to say this in a calm, quiet voice and I'm really trying hard to be mindful of my feelings because I want to take a break before I become angry.

He hated it in the beginning and there was some extinction outburst and perhaps a couple threats of divorce  ;p  but because I'm consistent it's working. Once he even said he was sorry as I was  reaching for my purse and keys.

I send a text after I leave that says I'd like to finish the conversation when I feel calmer. I don't answer any snarky texts he decides to send but he isn't doing that so much anymore...probably cause I don't answer. 

[Dynamic]

That's great progress, LoveNotWar. Good for you! You are have successively set boundaries & made him realize that you are consistent with it. I hope to reach that stage slowly & steadily with lot of patience & understanding on my part.

Fortunately or unfortunately, I am not in the habit of texting although I do communicate through emails or online chats when I am not in the mood of talking with him.