Borderline Waifs

[Think About It...]

I'm interested hearing the stories of those on the board who had a Borderline Waif as a partner. Mine was a Waif, who could be incredibly sweet in demeanor - she never raged - but also could really manipulate effectively with the guilt tripping and emotional blackmail - all of it done in such a subconscious and undetectable way. She loved the feeling of being in love - the problems like depression, mood swings, and blaming always came as we transitioned into the second phase "valley" of the relationship. We did this 3x after every break up and without fail, we always ended up at the same place. I'd get exhausted with caretaking her emotional needs and slack off, while getting wiser to her cycles, patterns, & subconsious tricks, and then she'd begin detaching and then end it suddenly after finding some minor reason/event to blow out of proportion and claim as grounds for never seeing one another again. Always attempting to justify  the impulsiveness, disrespect, and messy endings with "we just aren't meant to be together, because _______, ________, and ___________."

We'd get back together after negotiations - mostly me conceding to jump through more of her hoops (get a better job, get engaged/ring, etc). And her through mine (therapy, self improvement).

I'm not two months past our latest and final break up. And she is now engaged to new replacement who has had few R/S and is easily manipulated, from what I know. She's good. Real good.

Sad thing is I still miss her. Since Waifs don't usually rage (at least mine didn't), they're very adept at getting past one's emotional security system and bringing the whole system down with a crash. Trojan horse. It's fascinating clever and almost insidious at times.
 
It's really hard to forget them when your brain tends to cycle the good memories of their sweet Waif side over and over, while side tracking the bad. I've had to make a S-List in order to stay conscious of her bad characteristics.

Regardless, I'm really interested in comparing notes with others who've been with Borderline Waifs.

[abovebeyond]

I'm interested hearing the stories of those on the board who had a Borderline Waif as a partner. Mine was a Waif, who could be incredibly sweet in demeanor - she never raged - but also could really manipulate effectively with the guilt tripping and emotional blackmail - all of it done in such a subconscious and undetectable way. She loved the feeling of being in love - the problems like depression, mood swings, and blaming always came as we transitioned into the second phase "valley" of the relationship. We did this 3x after every break up and without fail, we always ended up at the same place. I'd get exhausted with caretaking her emotional needs and slack off, while getting wiser to her cycles, patterns, & subconsious tricks, and then she'd begin detaching and then end it suddenly after finding some minor reason/event to blow out of proportion and claim as grounds for never seeing one another again. Always attempting to justify  the impulsiveness, disrespect, and messy endings with "we just aren't meant to be together, because _______, ________, and ___________."

We'd get back together after negotiations - mostly me conceding to jump through more of her hoops (get a better job, get engaged/ring, etc). And her through mine (therapy, self improvement).

I'm not two months past our latest and final break up. And she is now engaged to new replacement who has had few R/S and is easily manipulated, from what I know. She's good. Real good.

Sad thing is I still miss her. Since Waifs don't usually rage (at least mine didn't), they're very adept at getting past one's emotional security system and bringing the whole system down with a crash. Trojan horse. It's fascinating clever and almost insidious at times.
 
It's really hard to forget them when your brain tends to cycle the good memories of their sweet Waif side over and over, while side tracking the bad. I've had to make a S-List in order to stay conscious of her bad characteristics.

Regardless, I'm really interested in comparing notes with others who've been with Borderline Waifs.

[ViciousCycle]

Sounds like a similar cycle to my relationship with my uBPDx waif. I would also like to add that my relationship started with dual rescuing, as I was an anxiety/depression ridden mess at the time who was trying to get over being dumped by my first real GF (it was really just past feelings coming up, had nothing to do with the break up itself). For the first 3-4 months my Waif would take care of me if I was having a panic attack or breakdown, which was pretty common at the time, but eventually she just kind of stopped showing affection in general. There was less and less spontaneous "I love you's" as the relationship went on and I felt her withdrawing, which caused me to withdraw in turn. I stopped feeling my feelings, and I became solely focused on how she felt for pretty much the rest of the relationship. I had officially become the caretaker and that was how it remained for a good 2 years. Taking care of me was the original hook in the relationship, once she stopped that then she replaced it with intense sex.

Like yours, mine practically never raged, there was only one time that she openly lost it on me and that was very very early on in the relationship. I didn't see any rage of any sort until the devaluation stage where she turned into a vindictive b1tch. She had an emotional affair with a co-worker, was picking fights, going to parties all the time, and we had a small "break" that only lasted a few days, she came back, then broke up with me for good 2 days later. After the break up she gave constant mixed messages that went back and forth between absolutely raging at me/blaming everything on me to apologizing and telling me how much she missed me and that she just needed "time".

She had a very co-dependent side to her as well, something I've read is very common to BPD Waifs. But it was always as if her attention could only be on one person or group of people at once, she had no idea how to balance out her relationships with everyone. When she went through a withdrawal cycle, she would always be completely focused on her friends. Then I would withdraw just because I didn't have the energy in me to chase her, and she would suddenly start smothering me with attention and so on and so forth.

She usually had the front that she was very sweet, innocent, bubbly, and social. But during the devaluation stage I saw a side of her I'd never seen before, the side of her that was filled with rage that has built up over her lifetime. You could tell she wanted to torment me emotionally, it was as if I had murdered one of her loved ones or something.

I look forward to hearing others stories, generally I hear that Waifs are the rescuers of BPD. They are princesses that like to rescue a prince, but once they rescue that prince then they expect that prince to always rescue them.

[SWLSR]

Pretty damn close to what I went through.  Mine would drop friends relatives or in the end me, over stuff that I am not sure what really happened.  But I have been given this warning though.  And this also includes an engagement, that sometime somewhere when you least expect it she is going to want to come back in, and when she does she is going to claim she has wanted to for a long time and we the non should have known it.

[Sofie]

Hi abovebeyond,

Having also been in a relationship with a BPD waif, I can definitely relate to what you're saying here. In addition to all the things you mentioned what really was about to drive me over the edge was the massive hypochondria - she was always, and I literally mean ALWAYS, sick from some imagined illness. I can't remember the number of times I have been sitting in the ER with her with the doctors looking tired and annoyed when they saw her - the staff at the reception knew her social security number by heart. No kidding.
Mostly, her imagined illnesses peaked when she felt she needed attention - especially from me, so the onset of a new mystical illness often coincided with me going on a business trip, focusing on a specific project for work or visiting friends or family.

Secondly, she absolutely hated it if I was ill. Fortunately, I am blessed with reasonably good health, so this did not happen often, but I can still remember that she threw a tantrum when visiting me in hospital after I had been in a car accident and suffered a concussion and the doctors told her it was a miracle I hadn't been killed. I really think she was jealous of this.  

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GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[gettingoverit]

Wow...sounds like we were all dating the same person. I don't know about other people, but my waify ex also had a mild pot addiction. She had to smoke a joint every night after her kids went to bed just to "relax". I hated it because at first she kept her habit a secret from me because she knew I would have dumped her ass if I had known about it from the beginning. She would not have even gotten to square one with me. It did not start "appearing" until about a year and a half after we started dating (I worked evenings so it was really easy for her to keep it hidden from me). Her whole personality changed when she was high. She would get really talkative and giddy, it would almost always put her in a good mood. At one point she said to me that she finds it easier to talk about things when she was high...uh...ok? When I asked her to not smoke pot some nights, she would get all moody and quiet, then stop talking to me all together. I could tell she was pissed off, so I would ask her why she is so upset and either it turned into a fight and inevitably she would use the fight as an excuse to go out in the garage and get high, or she would just stop talking to me and go out anyway to get high. But when I accused her of having an addiction she just scoffed at the idea. It was so frustrating.

My ex was also very manipulative, but did it in a very insideous way. It wasn't until weeks after our relationship ended that I realized the extend of her manipulation to get what she wanted. She had this way of insinuating that our relationship might be in jeopardy if I did not do A,B or C for her, and I like a fool did everything she wanted because I did not want to lose her. She was also a liar. Mostly lies of ommission, but a liar non the less. Again it wasn't until after our relationship that I found out the extent of her lies. This woman had lied to me about everything in her past. It was like I had been dating a stranger for almost seven years. WTH?

I too sometimes get caught up in thinking about the nice, vunerable side of her, and I tend to forget about the mean, selfish vindictive b*tch that lies beneath. She is so good at using her poor victim story to attract suitors. That's what she did with my replacement (ex-friend), and they fell for it hook line and sinker. I guess the ex-friend has their own future hell to go through to learn some valuable lessons about integrity and honor. They both are made for each other. That will become a match made in Hell I'm sure..

[soul]

The borderline i was with was also the waif variety. Very beautiful, not amazingly sexy, or sex driven. Didn't rage, only lost it very early on. Everyone she had trusted had let her down, he ex was a monster. She would cry at the drop of a hat. For six years it was fine, until one day I wanted something for me. And that was it, she changed on a sixpence. I then spent years recycling, and trying to keep her boyed up.

She was so clever at manipulation. Subtle use of stealth words, that over time made you question your sanity. In fact she would look at me with pity, as though i was the one that was ill. When I started having therapy, she started to get more nervous. I would only have to glance at someone in the street for her to accuse me of having an affair. Sometimes months later.

And all the while she would be so demure, so perfect, so lovely. She also had a habit of btching behind everyones back. Her mothers, her sisters and the very few friends she had.

A nightmare dressed as a rose ...

[soul]

PS she also lied totally about her past. I only found this out afterwards. I mean massive life changing lies, lies that stopped me doing things I wanted to do. Lies about her husband, her children and god know what else.

[abovebeyond]

Hey Sofie,

I can relate. Wow. Mine Waif was almost always TIRED. Sick one in a while, but mostly complaining she was tired, but also she got a lot of headaches. She actually went to a doctor a month or so before we split to see what was wrong with her in general (Tiredness) and everything came back good, which confused her more. Then the week we split up and she kicked me out of the house (and flip-flopped twice on her decision), she got flu-like sick for a week and stayed in bed. I believed she was genuiely sick that week, but also figured she was using it as a ploy to garner sympathy from me and lure me back without too many demands and forgive her. I didn't this time. And that's when my replacement, a nerd and former co-worker, snuck in under the radar and became her new rescuer and my replacement. Mind blowing how they can throw a good thing away so thoughtlessly when another suitor is lined up. Strange thing is, I always knew in my gut, from the inception of our RS, that she was dangerous & untrustable in this dept, meaning she would leave our RS when our RS gas ran out, and someone else popped up. I suppressed this gut feeling throughout the RS, thinking I was being paranoid and insecure (wrong again!). She swore she would never leave and was commited till the end - her jealousies seemed to testify to that - however it was all lip service. Lesson learned. ACTIONS ALWAYS SPEAK LOUDER THAN THEIR WORDS. And they have sooooooooooooo many words and declarations of love - even texting it robotically back and forth all day long, which I mostly happily participated in even though I sometimes thought, "This seems very High Schoolish and immature."

Also: whenever I got sick, which was rare, she had a really difficult time being MY caregiver. She seemed to resent it. Sadly, I noticed this same detachedness in her RS with her teenage daughter. She was not a great mother, which was another big Red Flag. I know it's hard being a single mom; I was raised by a GREAT one, which is where i inherited my codependency.



Mine lied about her past, too. RS histories fraught with vagaries and whatnot. So sad.

[WallyGator]

Mine was the typical waif who raged like a queen.  Turns out when we cycled the last time she told me the bulk of her stories about her past were untrue.  These included suicide attempts, abortions, BPD diagnosis, and overnight stays in psych wards while in college.  She also told me she began to hate the guy she shacked up with in college but had sex with him the last year or so of the relationship even though she hated him (translation: he was paying the bills and I had no where else to go). 

Interesting thing is she told me about the "lies" since she knew I was in the process of having my attorney depose her about her medical and psych history (she is 8 months pregs with our daughter as i write this).  She told me we would find "nothing" in our search as they were all lies.  So tell me, sweet cheeks, how will you explain the scars on your arms to the judge? 

In the end, her lies of three years began to unravel and sometimes I would ask her questions about things I "knew" the answered to about her past and she would lie (or cover a lie).  It got crazy, and my baby ain't being raised by a crazy. 

I ended up filing a protective order against her and she violated it in a rage at my home (uninvited visit) so I had her arrested.

I am healing now and am prepared to fight until the end for my daughter.  As for her, no money, poor credit, and a trail of chaos at age 27.  I don't see a happy ending for her. 

[Sofie]

Mine lied about her past, too. RS histories fraught with vagaries and whatnot. So sad.

Yeah, mine, too. What really messed with me for a long time - the reason I came to these boards, actually - was that I couldn't decipher which parts of the gruesome stories of sexual abuse she told me were true and which weren't. On one hand, it was/is deeply ingrained in me that one doesn't lie about such matters, on the other hand some (definitely not all) of the stories she told me couldn't be true as the facts simply didn't add up. Mind-boggling.

[soul]

Hey Sofie,

I can relate. Wow. Mine Waif was almost always TIRED. Sick one in a while, but mostly complaining she was tired, but also she got a lot of headaches. She actually went to a doctor a month or so before we split to see what was wrong with her in general (Tiredness) and everything came back good, which confused her more. Then the week we split up and she kicked me out of the house (and flip-flopped twice on her decision), she got flu-like sick for a week and stayed in bed. I believed she was genuiely sick that week, but also figured she was using it as a ploy to garner sympathy from me and lure me back without too many demands and forgive her. I didn't this time. And that's when my replacement, a nerd and former co-worker, snuck in under the radar and became her new rescuer and my replacement. Mind blowing how they can throw a good thing away so thoughtlessly when another suitor is lined up. Strange thing is, I always knew in my gut, from the inception of our RS, that she was dangerous & untrustable in this dept, meaning she would leave our RS when our RS gas ran out, and someone else popped up. I suppressed this gut feeling throughout the RS, thinking I was being paranoid and insecure (wrong again!). She swore she would never leave and was commited till the end - her jealousies seemed to testify to that - however it was all lip service. Lesson learned. ACTIONS ALWAYS SPEAK LOUDER THAN THEIR WORDS. And they have sooooooooooooo many words and declarations of love - even texting it robotically back and forth all day long, which I mostly happily participated in even though I sometimes thought, "This seems very High Schoolish and immature."

Also: whenever I got sick, which was rare, she had a really difficult time being MY caregiver. She seemed to resent it. Sadly, I noticed this same detachedness in her RS with her teenage daughter. She was not a great mother, which was another big Red Flag. I know it's hard being a single mom; I was raised by a GREAT one, which is where i inherited my codependency.



Mine lied about her past, too. RS histories fraught with vagaries and whatnot. So sad.

as above ...

[abovebeyond]

She also told me she began to hate the guy she shacked up with in college but had sex with him the last year or so of the relationship even though she hated him (translation: he was paying the bills and I had no where else to go).   

In the end, her lies of three years began to unravel and sometimes I would ask her questions about things I "knew" the answered to about her past and she would lie (or cover a lie).  It got crazy, and my baby ain't being raised by a crazy. 

 I don't see a happy ending for her. 

Jeez, Gator,

When I hear stories like your's where you have a kid tying you to her, I suddenly feel lucky I got booted out when I did. Rough. Stay strong.

[schwing]

Hi Abovebeyond,

...Mine was a Waif, who could be incredibly sweet in demeanor - she never raged - but also could really manipulate effectively with the guilt tripping and emotional blackmail - all of it done in such a subconscious and undetectable way.

Many of the significant BPD relationships in my life have predominantly waif qualities, though I sometimes wonder if that's only because being a waif with me yielded better results than being otherwise (i.e., witch, queen, or hermit).  I have suspected that these people change their "strategies" depending upon whom they are trying to influence.

My primary waif was also incredibly sweet, especially with new acquaintances.  She never raged either.  Frankly, rage would have been a deal breaker for me, so perhaps she knew better.  On the other hand, she got everything she ever wanted from me via guilt tripping and emotional blackmail (also).  I was always too eager to "fix" things and she would come up with an endless (and ever changing) list of things to work on.

She loved the feeling of being in love

Who doesn't?  I just never knew that they could fall so readily in love with other people.  Certainly I was led to believe that it was a much more "rare" event.

- the problems like depression, mood swings, and blaming always came as we transitioned into the second phase "valley" of the relationship. We did this 3x after every break up and without fail, we always ended up at the same place.  

I "recycled" my relationship with her many, many, many times.  Too many times for me to accurately recount.  Often enough that I honestly couldn't tell you when we were "in a relationship" as opposed to "on a break."  I was convinced to be in an "open" relationship for a while, though it was only open in the sense that she didn't have to feel guilty being with other people she'd never tell me about.  I just thought she only had a "commitment" issue; it was but the tip of the iceberg.

I'd get exhausted with caretaking her emotional needs and slack off,

There was a time that I "spent" so much of my time thinking about her welfare and emotional needs that I was in great denial of my own unmet needs and pain.  The paradox for me was that so long as I was the "rescuer," I could defer my own needs.  I always believed that once she got a "break" from her woes, then she might start taking care of me.  And oh she promised this to be the case, but I never got beyond the promises.

I'm not two months past our latest and final break up. And she is now engaged to new replacement who has had few R/S and is easily manipulated, from what I know. She's good. Real good.

Mine was married within the year after we broke up and we were "together" for more or less than 5 years.  I wouldn't say that she was "good" at what she did/does, but rather that psychology plays a much bigger role in courtship/dating/relationships than most people realize.

It's really hard to forget them when your brain tends to cycle the good memories of their sweet Waif side over and over, while side tracking the bad. I've had to make a S-List in order to stay conscious of her bad characteristics.

Our (non-disordered) brains are not hard-wired to "forget" such significant attachments very easily.  This is why we experience grief.  This is why humanity has rituals associated with different kinds of loss.  It can be helpful to maintain a "con's" list to counterweight those times when we might reminisce over the "pro's" of our relationship; but it is more helpful IMHO, to work on our acceptance that this person is mentally ill and recognize that all the "pro's" and "con's" are all expressions of their disorder.

..Mind blowing how they can throw a good thing away so thoughtlessly when another suitor is lined up.

This may be hard to accept but, for pwBPD, our relationships are not "a good thing" or a good deal they mistakenly passed up; our relationships are somehow a catalyst for their disordered feelings which only escalate the longer they stay with us.  For all the "good" we do for them, the more their feelings of intimacy are triggered, the more they become overwhelmed by their disordered fear that we will unexpectedly abandon them.

I think all they ever want is a relationship that does not end up making them feel this way, but the problem lies in them and not in their selection of partners.

Strange thing is, I always knew in my gut, from the inception of our RS, that she was dangerous & untrustable in this dept, meaning she would leave our RS when our RS gas ran out, and someone else popped up. I suppressed this gut feeling throughout the RS, thinking I was being paranoid and insecure (wrong again!).

Ditto on my end too.  The way I'd described it was that my heart overrode my gut and head, much to my regret.

She swore she would never leave and was commited till the end - her jealousies seemed to testify to that - however it was all lip service.

I don't think it was just lip service, she meant what she said when she said it.  But she said it without the understanding of her mental disorder.  She didn't understand why her feelings swung so often and so intensely.  And she wanted to believe that her feelings didn't or won't change.  But they did.

Best wishes, Schwing

[dageaux]

Ya'll covered all bases with your comments. All I can say is ditto. Would push me away when her heart started getting involved then come back in a rush when her feelings abated. No rage but a master manipulator! I always took her back and this happened 10X over 12 months. Build me up then tear me down. Cute as a button, sweet as pie and good in bed. I was emotionally mind screwed as we all were and are. Thank goodness for this site. I have a long way to go as we have been apart now for seven and a half weeks. But we work together and have to interact at work. Hard as heck to get over someone you still see 3-5 times a week. So glad I'm not alone in this!

[sissylover]

I have a question, are all borderline waifs thin, or is there some other definition? Mine has eating disorders which obviously affects her weight, when she was yonger she was very thin.

[faithfull]

You were telling my story. Mine was looking for lonely internationals  as a victim. Her trick was to take advantage of their loneliness, and their eastern culture. She started by being sweet/shy/vulnerable/victim of being forced living with abusive dad. She then became seductive and using sex for controlling/manipulation. all victims were her first sexual experience, and she would'nt do it with anybody else. (she was being intimate with me and her bf at the same time, and telling us the same bs)

 Now she got married to her Indian bf. (thanks god, she would'nt let me go. we had 6 closures. I finally contacted her bf to get rid of her.) She was quiet and never raged, she was acting out just when lies were found. She then went to state of "denial" like nothing happened and try to compensate with make up sex and acting vulnerable/ and blaming her father for all her troubles.

I am so glad I am out of this. It could have ruined my life.

[oceanblue]

Sissylover - I saw a list of characteristics somewhere to describe BPD waifs.  On that list, it said eating disorders are common.  I had a BPDbf waif and he was very thin.  When he was dysregulated, he was definitely anorexic and shockingly thin.  Having an eating order is trying to take control.  I think his eating disorders flare up when he is otherwise dysregulated so it gives him a feeling of controlling something.  Also, becoming shockingly thin is a way to get attention and to play on other's sympathies.  It's just one more way of being helpless and demanding attention and rescuing.  I came to see it as one more way of manipulating me.  As in, I would pressure him to get a job and he would drop 20 pounds because I was "yelling at him" so he couldn't eat and therefore his dramatic weight loss was my fault.  Of course, he couldn't understand the adult responsibility of having a job and he wouldn't get a job if I asked him to because he simply wouldn't do anything if I asked him to do it.

[GreenMango]

Abovebeyond,

Waifs, of any variety, require rescuing on their terms.  Whether you live up to the fantasy and continue to capitulate irregardless of their behavior and your needs will determine the outcome.

They speak to our inner fixer.  Once we are emotionally exhausted and drained we can no longer fulfill the obligations we once did by rescuing and the fantasy becomes reality.  And, the waif leaves to find fulfillment in one who can.  There is no equity in a relationship like this.

-GM

PS Ocean that is my favorite quotes from Camus and actually very timely for this thread.  A waif cannot walk beside and neither can anyone who needs to be carried through a relationship.

[dah1029]

Waifs are exhausting.  Mine is actually an overeater.  I attribute that to an addictive D/O or maybe to self-soothing.  His past includes smoking 3 ppd for years, enjoys gambling, addictive with taking vacations-- especially when he can't afford it, addictive on partners, alcohol abuse, and now is morbidly obese. 

[bpdlover]

Not all waifs are thin. The ex did have eating disorder issues and her Mother was a stick, however she was blessed with a naturally healthy figure regardless of how much she punished herself. The amount of thinking she did in silence was crazy. She was always trying to get a controllable angle on things. Most of the time she was quiet however there were times when she informed me that she was going to beat the crap out of someone and at times that was also pointed at me. By the time I came along, she had been through a marriage and had some sort of "memorised" coping strategies from counselling. She did fluctuate between victim and punisher mentality. The mind games/break ups were exhausting. Ultimately, she would stop at nothing to punish and torture anyone who really loves her. There may be co-morbity of NPD and possibly HPD although she was not a loud person.

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