DEARMAN for a big issue. Input please.

[Think About It...]

You don't have to accept her line of reasoning.  I believe the only way any relationship works, is both sides understanding and being empathetic with their partner.

As unfair as it may sound, being the "non" in the relationship usually puts the onus on us to establish this dynamic.  If we aren't willing to do this there is very little chance they will all of a sudden see the light.  It seems as if you're looking within to find out where you stand, a phenomenal step in either direction.  Posing a question that has no right or wrong answer.  Which is more important to you.   Why does your wife contact this guy or why she sees you as controlling?

[Inspirationneeded]

You don't have to accept her line of reasoning.  I believe the only way any relationship works, is both sides understanding and being empathetic with their partner.

As unfair as it may sound, being the "non" in the relationship usually puts the onus on us to establish this dynamic.  If we aren't willing to do this there is very little chance they will all of a sudden see the light.  It seems as if you're looking within to find out where you stand, a phenomenal step in either direction.  Posing a question that has no right or wrong answer.  Which is more important to you.   Why does your wife contact this guy or why she sees you as controlling?

[needbpdhelp]

I know its innappropriate, which is why I insist it end.  

I am also reading some other advice on how to deal infidelity issues from sources unrelated to BPD issues.  It's interesting reading and some of the advice tends to run counter to some of our staying lessons.  I haven't applied anything yet.  But some of the stuff makes me wonder if our Lessons should directly address some gender differences.    

Again, insisting someone do something is not a personal boundary

Telling her you are going crazy with her ongoing contact with her ex, and what you will do about it if it continues is a personal boundary.

The big difference is that telling someone they can't do something pisses them off, and they will tend to continue doing it out of spite and to show you that you can't run their life - whereas you saying you can't stand it because it hurts too much, and telling her you will have to maybe have no contact with her, or ... while she is continuing this connection, in order to keep your sanity, is about you and your hurt feelings. This approach may make her see how cruel her behavior is. You cannot do this in a bullying way however, or you run the risk of losing her permanently. In other words 'give her enough rope to hang herself' - and maybe she will understand that its her actions that are the problem, not your bullying - because you won't be bullying her any more.

Adress the gender differnces, how, and why? Isn't infidelity the same issue for either gender. It takes two to tango - right?

[briefcase]

Again, insisting someone do something is not a personal boundary

Telling her you are going crazy with her ongoing contact with her ex, and what you will do about it if it continues is a personal boundary.

The big difference is that telling someone they can't do something pisses them off, and they will tend to continue doing it out of spite and to show you that you can't run their life - whereas you saying you can't stand it because it hurts too much, and telling her you will have to maybe have no contact with her, or ... while she is continuing this connection, in order to keep your sanity, is about you and your hurt feelings. This approach may make her see how cruel her behavior is. You cannot do this in a bullying way however, or you run the risk of losing her permanently. In other words 'give her enough rope to hang herself' - and maybe she will understand that its her actions that are the problem, not your bullying - because you won't be bullying her any more.

I completely agree with this.  There is a huge difference between telling someone they can't (or must) do something, and telling them what you can and can't live with (or without).  My posts here have been loose with this distinction as I respond to different issues raised.  When I communicate with my wife about this issue, I try to be very careful to make it about my boundaries, and not what she can and can't do, etc. 

One problem I've noticed is that when it comes to communicating "deal breaker" boundaries, the distinction becomes a little lost and it is heard as an ultimatum, which I suppose it kind of is.  She feels bullied because the message ends up being "If you continue this, I will leave."  For me, this is simply a true statement.  For her, its a tactic to "get what I want," in this case to end communications between her and her "friend" because I am "jealous." 

I'm letting go of this a bit now.  She knows how I feel and what the stakes are.  She will do what she will do.  I will do what I will do.  For now, she says she's not communicating with him.  Time will tell.

As far as the gender differences, it was more of a general statement about our tools rather than infidelity specific.  I haven't digested it much, and am certainly not making an specific recommendations, but there are other forces at play besides BPD.  Men and women process things differently, are attracted to different things, and have differing needs.  I just wonder how our tools address those differences.  For now, it is merely an off hand observation, and may not really be part of our mission here.

[yeeter]

AND - in the ideal once you state the implication of a personal boundary - that you will leave (anyone, not just her - because you cant be in such a relationship because it sets up doubt, mistrust, etc... on YOUR part (again, its not about her)).

But in the ideal, she would want to understand what is at the root of this personal boundary.  And worthwhile for you to understand this clearly as well.

Is it because it means you dont trust her?  Are you afraid it will just slip to the next level, she will reconnect physically?
Is it because attention towards someone else, means this attention isnt directed at you?
Is it because you are possessive?  (not saying you are - but some are - so worth understanding)
Is it because it doesnt fit your mental model of expected behavior in a relationship?

[briefcase]

Is it because it means you dont trust her?  Are you afraid it will just slip to the next level, she will reconnect physically?
Is it because attention towards someone else, means this attention isnt directed at you?
Is it because you are possessive?  (not saying you are - but some are - so worth understanding)
Is it because it doesnt fit your mental model of expected behavior in a relationship?

Right now, it feels self-evident, instinctive.

Analyzing it, I would say all of the factors you mention above are certainly in play. 

I do believe that what she is doing is how physical affairs get started.  At very least, she is on that path, even if she says she has no intention of following it to its end. 

I don't trust her, or believe all that she is saying to me about this.

Her contact with him directs some energy away from me and the marriage. 

I'm probably somewhat possessive, but I don't think in an unhealthy way, husbands and wives should be possessive.  Let me put it this way, in 20 years together I've never flipped out like this over any other friend she's had, male or female.   

It doesn't fit my image of approrpaite behavior.

And, adding to the list, there is probably some fear of rejection too.   

[LostinBPDland]

Well, you should be a little possessive with your wife.  You married each other to be committed for the rest of your lives.  But commitment doesn't mean flirting or whatever you want to call it with the EX.  It just isn't right no matter how anyone looks at it.  She is playing innocent because it has worked in the past.

Like I said before, you probably only know 25% of what has actually transpired between them.  Considering her freak out episode, that is how my wife expresses guilt.  That may be why she acted that way.  Just a thought.

Bottom line is YOU are still doing all of the work to save your marriage.  She wants you to make the decisions for her because it makes you look bad if the decision hurts her at all.  don't let that scare you.