is sexually witholding a form of abuse?

[Think About It...]

   YES..Of course it is a form of abuse..Sex is Powerful.I have been with woman who used sex as Control,Manipulation,Wanting something and a Bargaining Tool..It can be used in so many forms of Abuse and Manipulation..

   And i am sure men can do the same..

[BPD Magnet 1]

   YES..Of course it is a form of abuse..Sex is Powerful.I have been with woman who used sex as Control,Manipulation,Wanting something and a Bargaining Tool..It can be used in so many forms of Abuse and Manipulation..

   And i am sure men can do the same..

[exbpdgf]

Thanks for all the great responses Hi!
I purposely did not include lots of details because I wanted to get a sense of what other people have dealt with in this area.  Please know that I did not have a clue my gf might be BPD until after my breakup.

Here's my story:
In my relationship, sex was great for about 6 weeks and then it was like the berlin wall came down. I remember the moment because it was so striking. From that point on, I was always trying to get back to that time before the wall went down and from that point on she was always giving me "reasons" for why she couldn't be sexual with me. Except when I would try to leave her-then she could suddenly be sexual (saying she'd be "cracked open")-of course, if I then stayed, the sex went away again.

At first when the sex went away I thought it was about her childhood trauma and I was a loving, patient partner but when I saw her NOT getting help with these issues, (except when I said we NEED to do couples counseling), my patience started wearing thin. We saw 4 therapists including a sex therapist and eventually she would "slam out" of each one, for different reasons.

The sex therapist was the best at handling her (she was also the most experienced therapist we saw), but even with this therapist I saw how frustrated she would become with our lack of progress. My gf said she wanted to be with me, was attracted to me, but just didn't want to be sexual. The sex therapist gave her resources to see Dr.'s in case it was physical (my gf never went). The sex therapist tried to talk to her about career issues (thinking if she reconnected with her passions...). The therapist gave us homework to re-connect physically. My gf would refuse and she was unable to do anything except the first step of the sensate focus exercises.

Many times I would fall into believing what she said about why she didn't want to be sexual with me (because I was too messy, because of financial issues for example).Whatever her reason, I would try to change or address whatever it was she brought up. Still no change. For a while I'd get mad and she'd get madder then slam out the door, saying I'd make her homeless (so my wanting to have sex with my girlfriend meant she would be homeless therefore I'm a terrible person).

The last round of begging me to come back and us having sex, finally woke me up to how f..d up this was and I finally set an ultimatum that for me to stay she had to go to therapy. I think this therapist knew she was BPD (based on things I've learned here), and I saw some things starting to get better and my gf started being a bit nicer to me, even reached out to me a little bit sexually. But then something happened (I'm still not sure what happened), there was a bad interaction between my gf and I (I thought I'd been inappropriate with my anger, but my T thought my gf had manipulated me-I've never seen my T so mad). Shortly after this, my gf's T couldn't see her anymore. No clue if she labeled her "treatment resistant" or if it really was just coincidental.
But once my gf stopped therapy, all her old meanness and distancing returned-in spades. I saw her not get another therapist. She got so bad so fast, I knew I was done. And somehow,  I held on for another 3 months, while she (finally) finished grad school and turned 50. The day after her 50th birthday, I woke up crying, saying I'm done, can't take it anymore and I told her it's over.
She tried again to get me to come back (again all the "cracked open" stuff), but I wouldn't let her recycle this time (despite her increasingly incessant and boundary-less behavior for about 2 months). Once she was gone, I started getting it there was more to this than just a sexless relationship.

[Rise]

exBPDgf, My question to you is, what do you think? Do you think what your ex did was emotionally abusive?

[vincent11]

exBPDgf:  I know exactly what you're talking about:  I am a woman who had known  a man 30 years when we got together.  There was an instant mutual attraction unlike anything I had ever experienced and he said he felt the same.  For the first 6 weeks we were very engaging and very sexual and then he slammed the door harder faster and louder than anything I had ever seen in my entire life!  It was over sexually!  Completely and utterly over!  Only he ddin't want me to leave the relationship.  He didn't want me to see anyone else and he didn't want me to give up on him but wanted no contact whatsoever!  ZERO!  He wouldn't even allow me to go over to see him.  But if he thought I was talking to anyone he'd say: "I just can't trust you any more!  I'll never be able to trust you!"  It was the oddest most insane and unbelievable thing I had ever seen in my life.  I guess I came to see that yes, even I did have VERY sexist preconceived notions about men, because I couldn't imagine a man wanting to cut off ALL sexual intimacy.  Where were we suppose to go from here with the push/pull.  Be faithful I don't want you routine!  Wasn't it suppose to be women that did this?

I was completely frozen in disbelief and shock!  Well,  15 months later I'm still here.  Why, I don't know other than I deeply love him.  Thirty years is a very long time to know someone and I guess I reached a heartbreaking point of resolve and accepted a sexless life with this man.  He is unfortunately haunted by OCD and Aspergers as if BPD wasn't enough for him to take.  I just take it one day at a time.  I have suspected ED but don't dare to bring it up for fear of humiliating him as a man.  I just let it go and try to stand by him and love him the best way I know how.  In 6 short weeks it was the mist blissful of lives any two people could ever hope to live but alas it was extremely short-lived.  I know we will never ever return to that time filled with hope warmth affection and endless possibilities. 

What are you gonna do?  When you love someone so deeply!

Thanks for all the great responses Hi!
I purposely did not include lots of details because I wanted to get a sense of what other people have dealt with in this area.  Please know that I did not have a clue my gf might be BPD until after my breakup.

Here's my story:
In my relationship, sex was great for about 6 weeks and then it was like the berlin wall came down. I remember the moment because it was so striking. From that point on, I was always trying to get back to that time before the wall went down and from that point on she was always giving me "reasons" for why she couldn't be sexual with me. Except when I would try to leave her-then she could suddenly be sexual (saying she'd be "cracked open")-of course, if I then stayed, the sex went away again.

At first when the sex went away I thought it was about her childhood trauma and I was a loving, patient partner but when I saw her NOT getting help with these issues, (except when I said we NEED to do couples counseling), my patience started wearing thin. We saw 4 therapists including a sex therapist and eventually she would "slam out" of each one, for different reasons.

The sex therapist was the best at handling her (she was also the most experienced therapist we saw), but even with this therapist I saw how frustrated she would become with our lack of progress. My gf said she wanted to be with me, was attracted to me, but just didn't want to be sexual. The sex therapist gave her resources to see Dr.'s in case it was physical (my gf never went). The sex therapist tried to talk to her about career issues (thinking if she reconnected with her passions...). The therapist gave us homework to re-connect physically. My gf would refuse and she was unable to do anything except the first step of the sensate focus exercises.

Many times I would fall into believing what she said about why she didn't want to be sexual with me (because I was too messy, because of financial issues for example).Whatever her reason, I would try to change or address whatever it was she brought up. Still no change. For a while I'd get mad and she'd get madder then slam out the door, saying I'd make her homeless (so my wanting to have sex with my girlfriend meant she would be homeless therefore I'm a terrible person).

The last round of begging me to come back and us having sex, finally woke me up to how f..d up this was and I finally set an ultimatum that for me to stay she had to go to therapy. I think this therapist knew she was BPD (based on things I've learned here), and I saw some things starting to get better and my gf started being a bit nicer to me, even reached out to me a little bit sexually. But then something happened (I'm still not sure what happened), there was a bad interaction between my gf and I (I thought I'd been inappropriate with my anger, but my T thought my gf had manipulated me-I've never seen my T so mad). Shortly after this, my gf's T couldn't see her anymore. No clue if she labeled her "treatment resistant" or if it really was just coincidental.
But once my gf stopped therapy, all her old meanness and distancing returned-in spades. I saw her not get another therapist. She got so bad so fast, I knew I was done. And somehow,  I held on for another 3 months, while she (finally) finished grad school and turned 50. The day after her 50th birthday, I woke up crying, saying I'm done, can't take it anymore and I told her it's over.
She tried again to get me to come back (again all the "cracked open" stuff), but I wouldn't let her recycle this time (despite her increasingly incessant and boundary-less behavior for about 2 months). Once she was gone, I started getting it there was more to this than just a sexless relationship.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[bpdlover]

It can be very difficult. Two years on and the person I thought I knew was never that person. Best way to move forward is continue to let go piece by piece of this traumatic puzzle.

[1brokenwing]

Yes. Yes it is.

[exbpdgf]

Rise (and all),
Yes, I think it was abusive, although that is still stunning to admit.

When I left the relationship, I was convinced I was the bad guy (due to my anger)-thank the stars I was seeing a T the whole time-gives me my reality check.

I also get that I was manipulated every which way (seems like every time I tried to do something nice and loving).

[bpdlover]

I had several moments of frustration due to her withholding and she quickly seized upon these and painted me as having a problem. My final meltdown was still not dangerous to others but I was animated and very upset at being tortured for so long. The night before, she was verbally abusive and controlling to the extreme but would not see it. The next day she said the most horrible stuff to me that cut so deep. My T has clearly defined that the dynamics of the association with this woman were abusive. Yet, I was the one painted black.

[rickstone]

"It depends. I won't say "yes that's abuse" because then you get into this awful area where a person is required to have sex lest they be labeled as abusive. If a person says "no" because they are not comfortable with sex, are not ready for sex, were abused and are triggered by sex, sex hurts (which for some people it does), etc, and are communicative about their reason for abstaining then I do not see that as abusive. If instead, the person plays mind games with sex wherein they use it to manipulate you and then refuse without explaining what's going on and just constantly leave you wondering if they even care about you, then I'd say that's abusive. It depends on the circumstance, I think."  by losing confidence.

with my gf it was I beleive a combination of things.  im still trying to come to terms with who she is.  its like a chinese puzzle (and i think thats the way she wanted it).

i beleive she has serious sexual issues physical and emotional.  i beleive she has been used and abused by almost every man she ever knew.
i am the only man i believe in her life who has not demanded sex of her (i was a single bachelor for years and dont really need it like other men do).  i suspect not only does she see sex as a form of male manipulation and abuse, but i also suspect she has physical issues (like painful intercourse or the like; she had cervical cancer twice).  i know she at least for the first year or so, saw me as very attractive.  but i also believe that knowing i wanted to have sex with her and would bring up the subject, she used this as a way to punish me and and keep the 'ultimate' from me.

in other words, i believe she had legitimate reasons to avoid sex, but also used her asexuality as a weapon to punish me for my 'sins' whatever they were (and i still dont know what they were).

[exbpdgf]

BPDlover: thank you! I so relate to your response.

My T has helped me find my way with all this and during one of the worst interactions (where she was being horrible to me, then I got mad)-she had me all but convinced I was the abuser. I went to my T crying and so upset and my T got as mad as I've seen (because she could tell I was being manipulated). My T encouraged me to keep taking actions towards better self-care (I was not yet ready to leave the r/s and still had no clue about the BPD).

No matter how crazymaking all this is/was and how much I still don't understand, I am so grateful for my freedom!

[artman.1]

I have been married to my UBPDW for nearly 44 years.  She stopped initiating or interacting with me sexually after the first two years, but allowed me to initiate and give her hugs, and intimate contact without her actually responding to but a slight degree.  About seven years into our marriage, she filed for a divorce, and we had three sons, 3, 4, & 5 years old.  She immediately started cheating, and going out to dancing clubs with her sister and GF's.  We finally reconciled, and a year later I moved our family 1500 miles North.  She stopped all intimacy shortly within about one year after the move North.  She has denied all intimate contact for the last about 36 years.  This has been difficult for me to deal with but our family has finally matured and our sons are all grown up and have their own families.  She has had some serious Medical complications over the last fifteen years and I have not ever pressured her, as I feel Sex should not be forced.  I am thinking that she may have had some childhood sexual abuses and that could explain this delima.  I am sitting on the fence about whether I will continue with her when I retire as I would be faced with 24 hours per day of her Chaos.

Art

[bpdlover]

I hear you exBPDgf. My T had to convince me that I was alright as I bought into my ex's lies and was totally confused. Another member here went to T and was told his reaction was considered situational anger. I guess in short, if we allow ourselves to be manipulated for a period of time, eventually we will have to face it. My heart goes out to you artman. You have no idea how much and I agree, it should not be forced. In past relationships, the topic was hardly ever spoken of, it was just a natural progression. There is the difference. They are just not sure all the time.

[hereforhealing]

Mine used withholding sex as a way to punish me for "making her feel bad" after she would act out.

Other times she would feel bad about herself (often for acting out) and want me to have sex with her in a "punishing" way because she had "been bad" and it relieved her of negative emotions.

Other times, if I was angry, or if she sensed I might leave, she would become hyper-sexual and want sex again and again.

And other times it was purely about control for her.  Her enjoyment in bed would come from her insistence that I say things about her being the best in bed ever... that I would want to have sex with her no matter what... and that I would do anything to sleep with her.

All in all, her attitude towards sex was incredibly influenced by her current emotional state, perceived ability to manipulate a situation to affect her emotional state, and her ability to maintain control through sex.

In retrospect... bat sht crazy.

-H4H

[bpdlover]

Mine was the same. She appeared to be hung up on certain things about me which she told me, kept her coming back. There I was, in love with her after the child arrived and she had shut off and was telling me that she would miss nothing about me except the sex. Was this BPD or NPD? It was a nightmare since she painted me as the one controlling the sexual side of the relationship.

[Karma Police]

Sexual and intimate withholding, if done with the overt or covert purpose of manipulation and/or preservation of an inequal power dynamic or to punish is very abusive.

I understand from firsthand experience that historical sexual abuse can color this, but it is still our obligation to seek treatment if we are withholding or holding back this integral part of a relationship.  There will always be an ebb and flow to intimacy, but if it is not maintained and recreated daily, then an unbalance occurs.

Our value in an intimate relationship is a constant exchange of different currency, and when we are cut off we can feel devalued and that is destructive.  If you forget someone's important anniversary, or violate an agreement we ought to be able to change the behavior, make good on the next round and not go there again to achieve forgiveness, but cutting someone out of your emotional and physical inner sanctum is to kill off the relationship slowly and purposefully.

I lived with this for months until I lost my balance and felt panicky and hypervigilant.  Since he would afford no explanation because he did not feel he had to, I was also left to wonder and that is part and parcel of gas lighting.  He blamed me for his inability to tell me things so his secrecy also got projected on to me.   It is abusive to make someone wonder about the status of your relationship, to keep them in long-lasting limbo wondering what will come next.

It is emotionally abusive, and it is a crappy one at that.  Not that there are preferable forms of emotional abuse.   

[upsidedown]

I was swimming in sex for the first year and then it got used as a tool for punishment. Withdrew when a perceived wrong had been committed

Yep, insert different timeline and that was exactly how mine used sex in our relationship.  At first he'd just leave for days at a time, then come crawling back (literally, crawling into our bed) for sex.  Later, after I made it clear I wouldn't recycle unless the disappearances stopped, he would just sleep on the couch, curled up with his back to me and refuse to speak.  These punishments always occurred after I gently tried to point out that I wasn't happy with his treatment of me or that something he'd done to his kids or his ex wasn't right.

If I wanted him to be emotionally and physically available, I'd better not ever express one ounce of discontent.  The ironic thing was that sex with him wasn't so great that I couldn't live without it.  In fact, it had grown rather tedious rather quickly.