"True", but I am still ticked off

[Think About It...]

OK, really, how would you react or what would you do?

First of all, True, dd should in a perfect world be in charge of her medical care.  But, how many pwBPD are?

DD18 has not been taking meds (Zoloft).  We know consequences don't work often with pwBPD, and I thought if she were left to her own, she would feel uncomfortable after being off them.  And feeling  Her sleep is dysregulated again, she is for all intents and purposes stuck at home, won't go out.  T is still on maternity leave till middle or end of June.  Been out three weeks or so.

OK, have asked dd to call her Pdoc.  She says "Yes", then does not.  Have waited a day or so.  She feels out of sorts.  Asked if she just wanted to figure out if she wanted to try it off meds for a while, and did she (after asking her to for a while) wanted me to call the Pdoc.  She said OK.  I called PDoc office to schedule an appt to discuss what could happen if she goes off.  I was told Pdoc does not do that, but would call me. 

Pdoc calls and begins to SCOLD me in what I can say in the most pleasant way as patranizing and demeaning.  That my behavior was keeping dd an infant, and the T thought so too.  She would only discuss this with dd, so, as I was home, put dd on phone.  Told dd give me the phone after she is done.

Well, I told Pdoc I did not care for how she began conversation with me.  That I tried having dd call, but she refused.  AND since I live with dd, if I see things, am I just supposed to say Oh Well.  She is 18 too bad. Pdoc and T just don't need this info.  BUT if I don't share it, they say, how can I do my job if I don't know wht is going on.  I let her know that for both her and the T, that this is a land they are used to navigating.  I have to live with the fall out.  And that attitudes like hers did not make it easy.  She apologized for ASSUMING I did not ALLOW dd to call her.  SHe was unaware that dd REFUSED to call her.  I said , well since you brought up the T, ask her how many times dd has called her.  ONCE!  OHHH say Pdoc, I did not know that.  AND how many times has dd called you?  ZERO.

So, rather than letting dd go off meds on her own, I thought it best to call for advice and so I knew what to look for.  Me thinks it is time to find a new doc.  Doc did apologize kind of.  But in a round about way.  Iam still ticked.  Makes me question what she knows about pwBPD.

Is this how we should expect to be treated?  Or am I a big baby.  I am strong enough to hear it, so bring it on.

mikmik

[mikmik]

OK, really, how would you react or what would you do?

First of all, True, dd should in a perfect world be in charge of her medical care.  But, how many pwBPD are?

DD18 has not been taking meds (Zoloft).  We know consequences don't work often with pwBPD, and I thought if she were left to her own, she would feel uncomfortable after being off them.  And feeling  Her sleep is dysregulated again, she is for all intents and purposes stuck at home, won't go out.  T is still on maternity leave till middle or end of June.  Been out three weeks or so.

OK, have asked dd to call her Pdoc.  She says "Yes", then does not.  Have waited a day or so.  She feels out of sorts.  Asked if she just wanted to figure out if she wanted to try it off meds for a while, and did she (after asking her to for a while) wanted me to call the Pdoc.  She said OK.  I called PDoc office to schedule an appt to discuss what could happen if she goes off.  I was told Pdoc does not do that, but would call me. 

Pdoc calls and begins to SCOLD me in what I can say in the most pleasant way as patranizing and demeaning.  That my behavior was keeping dd an infant, and the T thought so too.  She would only discuss this with dd, so, as I was home, put dd on phone.  Told dd give me the phone after she is done.

Well, I told Pdoc I did not care for how she began conversation with me.  That I tried having dd call, but she refused.  AND since I live with dd, if I see things, am I just supposed to say Oh Well.  She is 18 too bad. Pdoc and T just don't need this info.  BUT if I don't share it, they say, how can I do my job if I don't know wht is going on.  I let her know that for both her and the T, that this is a land they are used to navigating.  I have to live with the fall out.  And that attitudes like hers did not make it easy.  She apologized for ASSUMING I did not ALLOW dd to call her.  SHe was unaware that dd REFUSED to call her.  I said , well since you brought up the T, ask her how many times dd has called her.  ONCE!  OHHH say Pdoc, I did not know that.  AND how many times has dd called you?  ZERO.

So, rather than letting dd go off meds on her own, I thought it best to call for advice and so I knew what to look for.  Me thinks it is time to find a new doc.  Doc did apologize kind of.  But in a round about way.  Iam still ticked.  Makes me question what she knows about pwBPD.

Is this how we should expect to be treated?  Or am I a big baby.  I am strong enough to hear it, so bring it on.

mikmik

[twojaybirds]

you are a baby, but so am I.  It is out of frustration, tension, wanting the best, needing support, knowing really what is the best in that perfect world.

is pdoc  a psychiatric or pediatrician.  Sometimes we have to forego bedside manner for intellect (although both would be prefered)

Are you fighting a battle you cannot win but dont want to give up yet - then keep fighting.
When you are done you will know what to do.

I say this beacause I am still waging war with the school district even though my dd is NC with me. SHe cannot advocate for herself - they wont talk to me cause she is 18 - I am contacting OCR and ADA this weekend.   I ahve to know she will graduate.

[SmileAnyway]

You're not a big baby.  They have to remember you are her primary carer.  That deserves respect.

Therapists are great when they are great, but for some its just an academic activity, we live the condition.

Not sure you want to change now though?  Not now they have learnt an important lesson.

[mikmik]

twojays,

Doc is a Psychiatrist.  Sees dd 15 min once a month.  DD18 also won't advocate.  Have left her to suffer not taking meds.  Would rather doc knew, but I will have to let her figure it out during her montly quarter of an hour.  She will have to figure out if dd is telling the truth or not.  Either way, she gets paid.  Guess I am still ticked.   

Thanks for letting know I am being a baby    Perspective is always helpful

Good luck with getting the info you need about your dd graduating.  It is hard being in the loop one day, and literally one day later (as a result of a birthday) you no longer are.

mikmik

[mikmik]

Smileanyway,   Hi!
 
Thanks for you input.  It probably wouldn't be a good message for dd to switch docs as a result of some tension.  She will need this as a lesson for standing up for yourself, without it meaning it is all over (black and white thinking on my part maybe!)   So, yes, I will have dd move forward with this relationship, while letting her know I just needed to let doc know where I was coming from.  IT is not the end of the world.

That is why I love the board, I can be ticked and it is OK.

Thanks!

mikmik

[frustratedmom]

MikMik...

Sorry but baaahahaha...

That just about wraps up most of the P's and T's we bulldozed through, because BPD is the number one most difficult pd to navigate (by their own admission) for all professionals. That the Pdoc would not ask but ASSUME that you were not asking your d to do anything, and you were 'babying" her is just plain irresponsible, OR means they have NO idea what dealing with a pwBPD is really like.  You are the captain of this ship while it is at sail with a certain crew, and yes, the ship will sink if it takes on water and you don't do something about it!

For your reading pleasure, I present some of our experiences with  P's and T's before DBT

#1 - "She tests in this one category as "retarded", although I don't to use the word"?
    (Response - "we're leaving now")

#2 - "It's like she has a crisis a week and I can't keep up!" (no duh) (my d said this one just agreed with her all the time...didn't like that)

#3 - (to my 15yr old d) "So why are you here?"... My d: "idk"... Pdoc: "Are you depressed?" My d: "Idk"... Pdoc: "Would you like some anti depressants?" My d: "idk" Pdoc: "I just know we're going to get along fine!" (he retired shortly thereafter)

#4 -(to my d with an eating disorder) "Food? Yeah, who needs it!" (this T clearly needed it...)

#5 -T - "Now, the plan is that you will make a new friend in the next two weeks. Do you think you can do that?"  My d: "Maybe"...T: "Well maybe you can sit next to someone new at lunch". My d "I don't eat lunch"...T: "Well then someone new in class then"...my d: "Maybe"...meaning no..never going to happen.  And it doesn't.

#6 - Pdoc after about a year dealing with my d and thinking they were getting along great and really communicating - "She f***ing LIED to me! She has been manipulating us the whole time! She needs to be in RTC!"

The true face of BPD...many facets.

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[twojaybirds]

I have just started reading Perfect Chaos

Mom a special ed teacher at the university level teaching p's
dad in the mental health profession
d bipolar in college and they never really saw all the signs untill it hit big

Its a mom -daughter book.  Althuogh the d is bipolar the mom address how her and her husband are in the field and didnt see anything that drastic  AND even with their background and insider info how hard it is to fight for a loved one, how difficult the system is, how how it is to find a compatable therapist - how the system is so different when you need it rather than working in it. 

Mom felt a need to write this book with d to help  all those with kiddos with a menatl illness  - the journey and emotions are similar to ours

[mikmik]

For your reading pleasure, I present some of our experiences with  P's and T's before DBT

frustratedmom,

Thanks for the baaahahaha!  And for my reading pleasure!, does it get any better than that!  It is so refreshing to vent, and laugh, and in the end, get the truth out of what we have to battle.  Only those of us knee deep the the stuff that is BPD can mange a chuckle at post while thinking, sad but true. 

Yes, those of us still taking care of the pwBPD are the Captains of our Ships!    But, us Captains don't have time for a pity party.  It was good to get it off my chest.  And my pride, what is left of it doesn't like being talked to like I am a third grader being brought before the principal for breaking school rules.  However, I understand we need to get the pwBPD to be responsible as she said. hahahahhahhha.  Yeah, right.

Thanks for your post!

mik                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

[peaceplease]

mikmik,

I don't see it as being a baby at all.  I would be quite ticked, myself.  Your dd lives with you, and you are going to experience the effects of your dd going off her meds.  So, I see nothing wrong with calling pdoc. 

I recall calling my dd's pdoc, a few years ago.  I called to inform him that she was an addict after he prescribed her klonopin.  And, my dd's caseworker called him, too.  The methadone clinic that she attended notified pdoc that she should not be prescribed any narcotics.  And, guess what my dd's addiction became while going to methadone clinic. Yep, XANAX.  I am sure that she would get them one way or another.  But, the pdoc became the legal method.  He didn't prescribe xanax, but klonopin is still a benzo.  So, I know the frustration of pdoc not listening.  BTW, this pdoc was terminated.  I don't know why, but I can only suspect...

I get the pwBPD need to be responsible, but I believe that it is totally understandable for you to call.  The pdoc was being a jerk for not even LISTENING to you, first.  To call and chastise you before listening to you is being a real JERK!   I worked in a psychiatric hospital, and our child/adolescent pdoc was a jerk!  The adult pdoc was a gem.  Unfortunately, the other one, pretty much owned the hospital.  And, I believe that he had NPD!

frustratedmom sounds like she had her share of pdoc and T jerks.  Really, I have to wonder why some of them are in the field.  I believe many of them have their own axis II!

But, I tend to agree that switching pdoc, at this point would not be a good message to your dd.  It would have to look like it was her choice. 

OTOH, if you are paying the bill...  You should be satisfied with the service. 


peaceplease

[frustratedmom]

I'm glad I could make you laugh...it is a small group we are in but no one understands like we do...

One caveat I will add:

We were pretty steadfast for a long time with the notion that we just had a daughter who was "playing bad" and got ideas from others to try out, and it was all still within the realm of "normal".  Our d played along, because although only she really knew the truth about how much she was cutting behind closed doors, how she really felt like dying but couldn't do it herself...she was a master of lying and never showing any extreme emotion...she was always pleasant, seemingly open, with a somewhat carefree attitude. "Yeah I'm a little down today, but I'll just go pet my bunny and it will work out" kinda thing.

Total snake in the grass.

That's why we thought she had made progress in DBT, she had snowed everyone with being the star student.  Then denied it all and left.  She did not want to be that person. And she knew her need was constant 24/7 attention that none of the "skills" would provide.

So if she wanted therapy now, I would get her the sharpest DBT person out there, who would not take her BS at face value...and I would find someone WHO HAS KIDS OF THEIR OWN.  Even the DBT people we went to were childless 30 somethings...so they did not understand the fundamental emotional connection we have with our kids, and I think that is like teaching architecture without ever building a building...it's just theory. But they can inspire, and sometimes that's all that's needed to go forward?

[mikmik]

Peaceplease,

Thanks for your support and acknowledgement.  And my militant self wants to call her and insist on a money back option if I am not happy with her service (Like Nordstroms), but know that is a fantasy.  However, I agree, that I am paying as is my insurance.  And for the payment, she works for us.  As our employee she is accountable.  I just have to figure out a diplomatic way to say it.  I do think I got part of my point across when I confronted her.  She was not expecting it.  She may need a few days to digest that she apologized.

And these folks are the experts?  Yes, the same group (here I go again) who blamed the mothers of autistic kids, as well as all the other disorders on the mom.  You would think they would get new material by now.  Hey folks, the earth is not flat, and the sun does not go around the earth.  OK, it IS NOT the mom's fault.  I don't have a lot of faith in a group of people who are prescription happy and not easy to reason with (sounds like our kids).

And, to your point, my dd suffers from anxiety, and guess what this doc gave her?  Xanax!  I thought the same thing as you, these kids are addiction prone.  Thank goodness my dd is not pill driven (yet).  Her drug of choice is food.  But the warning bells went off!  We have had two other big med failures.  All requiring multiple office visists.  Sometimes I feel they are churning the visits to pad their pockets.


DD told me after my conversation with her doc, that only she was allowed to speak to me like that, and who did the doc think she was (said with a grin).

[mikmik]

Frustratedmom,

Could not agree with you more!  That those who treat our kind of kid needs kids of their own.  They have to be able to relate to a feeling, a desire, an emotion that is not experienced till you give birth.   I decided to switch ob/gyn after trying to explain an issue I was having.  I realized this male doctor could not relate to having a uterus or ovaries.  For my postpartum depression, he suggested having a coca-cola.  I kid you not.  My mom was with me, a woman who had never till that point ever dreamed of questioning a doc, said to his face,  You Gotta Be Kidding.  We left, she said find a new doctor, make it a woman.

And the support system for our kids is so reliant on the family.  How can the family be discounted or shut out, till it is time to assign blame that is by those in the health care system who are there to help our kids?  It all gets so jumbled.

I am reading Valerie Porr's book now, have you read it?  It is making sense to me, and I am getting more info and support and guidelines from an author than the medical professionals who are tending to dd.

mik

[Reality]

mikmik,
The doctor's response is inexcusable.  I see her response as discrimination against you.  In Canada, relatives are able to speak with doctors to give their imput; however information from the doctors can only be shared if the patient has given specific permission.  Clearly, this doctor understands very little about the emotional dysregulation driving BPD.
Did I miss something?  How does advocating and being a responsible parent make you a baby?  I am becoming increasingly convinced that very solicitous care for our darlings is critical for them to recover.  Family involvement is key.
Reality

[mikmik]

Ah Reality!

We need you here in the States to drive our cause, much as Heron is doing in the UK.  I do think we need some sort of parent or family advocacy group for our "Darlings" here in the US.  I don't want to suggest that other disorders don't need this too, but BPD is such a different animal.  We have to drive this bus, not just pay for the gas.  I don't know where to start.  Maybe I will approach my T.  Tho, I am questioning P and T's motivation right now.  And by suggesting we need a health care advocacy group for families to run between us and the pros, may make her feel uncomfortable.  But, since I am writing the check, heck yeah, I will go there.

I think in feeling ticked, if I have the courage to go a bit deeper in the emotion, it is that I felt very diminshed, and initially humiliated (especially when she said the T felt the same way, that I was keeping dd from calling, and keeping her an infant).  Does that make sense?  It is not a good feeling, but I have to say, I am NOT that person that she is accusing me of being.  And thereby get my center back.

But back to this?  How does one start a group. that has power, that can say to the faces of the docs and T's, You must be accountable too.  You must participate with the family or those who are caring for the pwBPD, those who are her/his main support system, in the ongoing care and plan for this kiddo.  Where to start Reality.  Where to start?

Thank you for your hugs through the board and your posts.

mikmik

[Reality]

Okay mikmik, one starts where one can.  This past week I had dinner with  six friends from my sons' Montessori school.  We go back 20 years.  Many of their children are highly successful already.  A psychiatrist in training, one at Yale doing Masters, a lawyer, a computer programmer, you get the picture...finally at the end of the meal after hearing about a wedding plan down to the details of the gifts, I launched. 
'I now know what is wrong with my son.'
I gave them every detail, the bloodied sheets I have washed over and over again, th police officer telling me to put my bum! on the seat of the car, the emergency room doctor who queried me "And what do you expect the hospital to do for your son?" then said to me and my husband "You are just feeding into ths situation." the 8 years of wasted life looking for a diagnosis, the loss of a real family for my other son, my sister calling the police because she didn't think I was capable of taking care of my son, the hospital where the Intake Worker ignored my son and I drove at 3 in the morning for 2 hours with him wrenching in the back seat  to another hospital where he was admitted immediately and I was told he was the sickest patient in the hospitall... Yes, I said it all and now I feel free.  There is no shame in this horrific mess we have.  I said that it was the system itself that fed the disorder with the hard-to-believe shame and blame heaped on the families and on our darlings.  This is not insignificant stuff.  It is blatant incrimination, similar to the treatment historically of other disenfranchised groups.
The more I talk about BPD and all the etcs, the heslthier I am becoming.  Rosa Parks sat with dignity, the picture of Wise Mind and graciously stayed in her place on the bus.
Reality

[mikmik]

Reality.

Bravery and Wise Mind, you do great service to both.  I am sure they were captivated.  I am sure, with who you are, you reached their hearts as they pictured the little boy they first met.  They will need time to digest the condensed version you gave them.  Then, the ones who have the strength will reach for the phone and contact you.  Those who are not yet prepared will need more time.  But as mothers, the image of your son can not be escaped.  And, as is life, you don't know where all the info will go, and who they know who is also touched by a serious illness.

I am in a book club, and next year I was thinking of suggesting "Girl Interrupted".  Then hold a discussion on BPD and mental illness in general.  These women don't have the connetction to my daughter, as your friends have to your son, but it is a start.  Talking about it, and not hiding.  I am far too good at hiding.

  There is not a support group for parents of kids with BPD, or family members (sibs should be including, and other close care givers).  As I mentioned before, I think today, I will introduce this request to my T.  AND not accept her previous answer, to check out the internet.  I need something here, the physical contact, and to be able to see the faces of those who deal.  From that group, well next onto big things.

Lastly, one of my customers  came in yesterday.  We chatted a bit, found out he is a counselor who works with addicts, big self harm reduction guy!  I told him about how my "Friend" told me about Gabor Mate, and that there is a very ineresting speech on YouTube.  His eyes lit up.  You never know how far a bit of info you provide will go, or who it will reach in unexpected ways and who will have their lives affected in  a more compassionate way.  Thanks for that.

mikmik

[Reality]

This is not insignificant stuff.  It is blatant incrimination, similar to the treatment historically of other disenfranchised groups.

Oops!  I meant ...It is blatant DISCRIMINATION (the word first used here on this board by our very insightful heronbird), similar to the treatment historically of other disenfranchised groups. 
I use this word, DISCRIMINATION, when speaking about the mistreatment suffered by my son and myself.  It is powerful, as everyone knows exactly what it means. 
John Lennon said that women were the last group suffering discrimination, only he didn't express it that way exactly. Yes, but people with mental health issues and their relatives suffer equally and I don't see any affirmative action plans for our darlings and us.
I had a mental health helpline professional tell me after a 5 minute conversation that it would be tricky for my son to do university studies.  Sorry, but no!  My son's insights are already clearly above this person's perspectives.  She also said it is extremely difficult to diagnose BPD.  To which I replied, "Well, that is interesting, because John Gunderson of Harvard University devised the Diagnostic Interview for Borderline-Revised in the 1980s and it takes a skilled clinician one hour, maximum two hours to conduct the interview.  She was a little quiet after that.
Reality

[happygolucky]

I hear all the replies... and I have been there!
My DD overdosed on medication while in hospital... oops! they forgot to take her medication from her when she was admitted! But... they refuse to accept responsibility for not taking them from her while she was suicidal!
Then... daughter walks out from hospital and is missing for 2 and a half hours before they even realise that she was gone... no ... she did not discharge herself... she just walked out... I finally found her a few hours later!

Yes... My family has been let down in so many ways...
We have been blamed, judged and called the enablers...
I have been told that if I was to make the appointment to see therapist... and drive her to her appointments... the therapist would not see her as DD did not instigate anything to help herself... therefore I am enabling her behaviour.

Too bad about what we have to live with... and how else can we help if we cannot do those things... especially when someone can't face the day with depression as well as all the other issues that they have!

One teacher from her school was not prepared to go easy on her... regarding assignments due etc... He told me that she is one of thirty children in the class and he was not going to change or alter his attitude towards her. I explained that we were very lucky... that she was waking up every morning and that her depression and suicidal thoughts were something that was our first priority. This teacher was her art teacher... the lesson that she most loved... and couldn't cope with... so much for any compassion when we needed it!

These stories are just a few in the many many years of saga, drama and distress.
But today... I was able to stop... and laugh... have fun... and forget for a little while!

Cheers
HappyGoLucky

[mikmik]

You know, in reading all your stories, replies etc, it seems like the Pdocs and T's often treat us as do our pwBPD.  They shift the ground, tell us we are wrong when we know in our hearts we are doing what is best for our particular pwBPD because we LIVE WITH THEM.  How can they tell us we are awful, or won't see our kids if we drive them, or that they assess our loved ones in 5 or 15 minute bits of time, and they are experts.  Talk about being controling.  I think they need to check their egos, and reassess how they treat the care givers.  Maybe if they had to do immersion training, living, caring, working with pwBPD 24/7 for ninety days, they may get a taste of what works and what doesn't.  They live in the land of "Theory", not "Real Life".   Only Real Life gives the sense of urgency we live with daily.  They make a lot of money being critical of us, I think that is a pwBPD fantasy.  As of this moment, the ignorance of the experts astounds me.  And I can see it will not change unless we force the issue.  Let's all of us be as brave as Reality and Heron and others.  I was going to yesterday, but my T had to change my appt last minute, so won't be able to tell her what I need till next week.  Will have to sit on my PDoc story I posted at the beginning of the thread.  I don't say we need to be nasty or disrespectful, be we need to clearly state our boundaries with the care givers, state our expectations as they are our Employees, and clearly establish accountablity.

mikmik

[heronbird]

They are bullies to us sometimes, I had a psychologist upset me so much one time, first they tell me to back off and let dd get on with it (age 12) ha joke eh. Then when dd misses an appointment because of panic attack then P gets me involved and has a polite go at me and nearly reduces me to tears with his academic talk.
I am useless at standing up for myself, especially if they are people that I see are supposed to be helping me I feel like I cant be rude to them. I cant be rude in a polite way either.

Anyway, I have learnt now after 5 years of being told to back off and let dd sort everything out. NO Way.
Course I leave everything up to dd but sometimes I need to help her, and she is likely to OD on meds, so I have to give her only three days supply at a time, she begs me for sleeping tablets every day, I say no.

I think I have been the best person in my dds life at helping her with her BPD issues and getting her through hard stuff.

Theres nothing like the love of a parent to motivate us to help, and Ps are not emotionally attached, I really feel with most of them, well, what are they doing on a Sunday afternoon, having a lovely family time I guess, not giving our kids a thought... what are we doing? Sorry, I know that sounds bad but I am a realistic thinker.

[mikmik]

Theres nothing like the love of a parent to motivate us to help, and Ps are not emotionally attached, I really feel with most of them, well, what are they doing on a Sunday afternoon, having a lovely family time I guess, not giving our kids a thought... what are we doing? Sorry, I know that sounds bad but I am a realistic thinker.

Heron,

Bringing this up, as I had to do a followup call to the Pdoc to set dd's next appt.  DD would not call Pdoc after three days.  So I made sure the gal at the appt desk knew that dd did not want to call, that I was calling and the only day that works for DD are Fridays.  Do not have anything till middle of July.  So, in context with your quote above, IF Pdoc is so concerned about dd's follow up, and knows that Fridays are her only option, maybe she would make an extra 15 minutes at the end of some Friday a bit sooner.  You already know the answer, don't you, it was NO WAY.    They have to stick to their rigid schedules, and not to serving their patieints. 

mikmik

[heronbird]

Yes Mikmik, thats typical I have too had exactly same thing. Valerie Porr says if she is seeing anyone with BPD she would always make their appts for after 2pm because she knows they often cant do mornings as asleep. Our P tried to insist on 10am, thats mean I think.

I dont know about you but for us, the Ps all go home at 5pm, so if dd gets bad after 5 its a nightmare, and of course it is always after 5 .
Oh yes, they offer family therapy at ours, wow, arent they good. How are we supposed to go, its only between 9 to 5, I work dh works, so do our other children, do they really expect us to have time off every week, will they pay our mortgage for us if we loose our jobs
So we never did family T. I didnt like the T anyway. She kept saying isnt that what all tennagers do ? ? ?

[twojaybirds]

I guess in their defense they are setting healthy boudnaries for themselves.
I have had 6pm and 7pm appts with our p. but he is older with grandchildren.   

I knew a young psych who worked 6 days a week in two clinics.  She lasted less than a year in the profession.

[mikmik]

twojays,

Boundaries are needed all the way around.  And good for me to realize that Pdocs are not therapists.  Their lives are built around meds and 15 minute visits once a month, not ongoing weekly sessions.

Perspective is always good.

mikmik

[vivekananda]

What a powerful thread.

My experiences with Ts is generally unsatisfactory. But there have been some goodies. I think it pays to know what you want and to be quietly assertive from the outset. As soon as you show you are needy, then you are being analysed.

Having said that I am proud of you all for standing up for yourselves in the face of a world that doesn't seem to understand.

Good luck with your advocacy/support group, mikmik. I was thinking a way to start may be to go about it like a book group. Select pieces you could read - not a whole book, but articles or chapters and then as a group meet to discuss them. It would be easy to draw up a reading list. I think you'd need to know how to select people to invite... and be careful in case any people would undermine the group because of their own mental health concerns. That'd be the hard bit, but if you started with just a couple, it'd be great. Then you'd have status as someone who knows and those medicos would treat you with more respect!

   

[heronbird]

Ok, I dont want to labour the point but why cant the clinic where my dd attends (on NHS) open one evening a week, then the therapists could work from 1pm to 8 or something one or two days a week. I bet they would if they were private.

Dr Bateman is happy to meet with me after work, so they obviously open late, he is NHS
Nevermind, its not a perfect world is it. It might be if I ran it though

[mikmik]

Heron,

You are absolutely correct.  The office hours for treatment should consider the work lives of those they serve.  So many families of pwBPD have to take off work to tend to BPD, that additional time off may not be easy to do without having job security threatened.

Here, my dd's T when she comes back works till nine at night two days a week, and works a Saturday.  The medical docs are different. 

ViveK,

Knowing what I know now, going forward, I will "interview" P's and T's first.  Maybe that could be a new thread, Interview Questions for the Professionals.  We are hiring them afterall.  Perhaps this is the appraoch we need to take so we have the answers before they begin treating our loved ones.

mikmik

mik

[SmileAnyway]

Yes, great idea for a new thread
 

[frustratedmom]

MikMik -
New thread P/T questions?

How long have you been treating pwBPD's?
What is the age range of people you generally treat?
What is your success rate?
Are you reachable for emergencies? (ours you had to wait 24 hours, and if they were dead so be it...)
What do you think of RTC?
When would you use RTC?
What kind of drugs have you found successful or not and why?
Do you recommend any kind of educational modifications?
Do you use any kind of contracts or consequence/reward therapy? (RED FLAG)
Do you have a family member with BPD?
Do you have BPD?
Do you have children?

Do you LIKE YOUR PARENTS? 

[heronbird]

Valerie Porr has a list in her book, I remember reading that when dd had been in T for a year and thinking how silly I was not asking all those questions, such a brilliant idea eh.

[mikmik]

Frustratedmom,

Can you cut and paste your ideas in a new thread?  I think this could be so empowering and so helpful to those of us who need to interview new Ps or Ts, or for those of us who want to reestablish crudentials.

Let me know what you think.

mik

[frustratedmom]

MikMik - sure - now that we're not going to therapy I have tons of questions! Go figure!