She wants a divorce - what can I expect?

[Think About It...]

Hi all,

when I first came to this board, I was constantly on the Staying-board, trying to learn desperately what I could do to save us/make her stay.
Unfortunately, my wife wants a divorce, and this time she seems really certain. (She has 'left' me numerous times, but always came back after a few days of time out at her parents, I would talk to her, provide 'magic'  solutions and we would try again.)
As some on this board already know, I am in tricky situation; I live with her in another country for her job, and I can't just get up and leave and move out from one day to the other. I left my house and job behind for her so she is supporting the both of us.
The latest drama has been going on for a month now, a very stressfull time, and I broke down last week and friends from my homecountry drove all the way here and picked me up so I could have a breather at their place. My wife and I agreed that this time of me being away would be about us both thinking and getting clear headed, me hoping she would miss me enough to not want to split up anymore.
But, my wife just got more and more to the point of definitely wanting out of our marriage. I came back to our home a few days ago and it was drama again from the start, but this time over the phone and email, haven't seen her yet since she is staying at a co-workers. She already took all kinds of steps with contacting lawyers, decided she will not stay in or house as long as I am still here, moved some of her stuff while I was gone.
It was a shock, and that's an understatement.
Anyway, tomorrow she is coming home so that we have a face to face divorce talk.
I am trying to accept that this is really the road we are going down and that I have to give up pleading, begging, providing solutions, etc. From all I've read is that a lot of people get recycled by their BPD-partner.
My wife for example is contstantly emailing me in a confusing way since she has said she wants to divorce: one day all loving nicknames and care, next cold and uncaring, some days completely ignoring any of my emails, even they are just about logistics.
It goes up and down.
She seems very rational and logical about how she wants the divorce to go, 'allowing' (she threatened to kick me out in one of the rages, even though I know by now she can't, we're both on the house papers) me staying here temporarily, she somewhere else, the financial part, but at the same time in other moments she is raging, hating me, then again loving me and saying it hurts too much to see me because she loves me so much. Isn't that a-typical for a pwBPD? To still show love when they are trying to get rid of you? I thought I was painted black completely now, and that there's no way back from that.
She almost seems sane sometimes, and I get confused, untill I remember all the lies, her painting me black to her parents and who knows who else, and completely re-writing our life from a negative viewpoint, even to her self.
Does re-cycling almost always happen? How do I deal if it does? I still don't want a divorce, even though by now I realise more and more things will never be good untill she gets help.
Does seeking a replacement immediately almost always happen?
I am afraid she already has someone, but she keeps denying it.
I am just so afraid for tomorrow, to say what I don't want to say and don't even want to do: Ok, I give up too. Let's get a divorce.
Than I have failed her and made her worst fear of abadonment come true, even though she is the one pressing me for it.

[CSSL]

Hi all,

when I first came to this board, I was constantly on the Staying-board, trying to learn desperately what I could do to save us/make her stay.
Unfortunately, my wife wants a divorce, and this time she seems really certain. (She has 'left' me numerous times, but always came back after a few days of time out at her parents, I would talk to her, provide 'magic'  solutions and we would try again.)
As some on this board already know, I am in tricky situation; I live with her in another country for her job, and I can't just get up and leave and move out from one day to the other. I left my house and job behind for her so she is supporting the both of us.
The latest drama has been going on for a month now, a very stressfull time, and I broke down last week and friends from my homecountry drove all the way here and picked me up so I could have a breather at their place. My wife and I agreed that this time of me being away would be about us both thinking and getting clear headed, me hoping she would miss me enough to not want to split up anymore.
But, my wife just got more and more to the point of definitely wanting out of our marriage. I came back to our home a few days ago and it was drama again from the start, but this time over the phone and email, haven't seen her yet since she is staying at a co-workers. She already took all kinds of steps with contacting lawyers, decided she will not stay in or house as long as I am still here, moved some of her stuff while I was gone.
It was a shock, and that's an understatement.
Anyway, tomorrow she is coming home so that we have a face to face divorce talk.
I am trying to accept that this is really the road we are going down and that I have to give up pleading, begging, providing solutions, etc. From all I've read is that a lot of people get recycled by their BPD-partner.
My wife for example is contstantly emailing me in a confusing way since she has said she wants to divorce: one day all loving nicknames and care, next cold and uncaring, some days completely ignoring any of my emails, even they are just about logistics.
It goes up and down.
She seems very rational and logical about how she wants the divorce to go, 'allowing' (she threatened to kick me out in one of the rages, even though I know by now she can't, we're both on the house papers) me staying here temporarily, she somewhere else, the financial part, but at the same time in other moments she is raging, hating me, then again loving me and saying it hurts too much to see me because she loves me so much. Isn't that a-typical for a pwBPD? To still show love when they are trying to get rid of you? I thought I was painted black completely now, and that there's no way back from that.
She almost seems sane sometimes, and I get confused, untill I remember all the lies, her painting me black to her parents and who knows who else, and completely re-writing our life from a negative viewpoint, even to her self.
Does re-cycling almost always happen? How do I deal if it does? I still don't want a divorce, even though by now I realise more and more things will never be good untill she gets help.
Does seeking a replacement immediately almost always happen?
I am afraid she already has someone, but she keeps denying it.
I am just so afraid for tomorrow, to say what I don't want to say and don't even want to do: Ok, I give up too. Let's get a divorce.
Than I have failed her and made her worst fear of abadonment come true, even though she is the one pressing me for it.

[OnceConfused]

Than I have failed her and made her worst fear of abadonment come true, even though she is the one pressing me for it

No, you have not failed HER. That is just the way BPD operates and unfortunately you are the enabler.

You don't want a divorce. Unfortunately, what ever you have done in the past only to DELAY the inevitable demise of your marriage. She left you numerous times and then came back after you promised some MAGIC solutions. So apparently the MAGIC solutions did not work and the solutions did NOT SOLVE anything. Now you are back to square 1.

From your posts, I can sense that you want the marriage or the r/s more than she does. Well, that is not a very tenable position. In marriage both must want to be in and both must be WILLING to work at sustaing the r.s.. Thus far, it seems to me that you are the one that have done ALL the works but she done NONE.

Don't be fearful of tomorrow, face it with courage and hope. Otherwise you are going down with the ship.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[CSSL]

Up untill now, she always seemed to want is as much as I do. There were the for evers, never leaving me, me being the one, etc. That just all faded away.
Now she hates me, but some days she still expresses she loves me.
What I ment with magic solutions I should maybe explain:
we would constantly get in figths, sometimes my fault, somestimes her, sometimes neither of ours, and they would get out of hand to the point of hysterical screaming on both sides, or her ignoring me for a day/silent treatment, verbal abuse, etc.
My 'magic'  solutions were looking up all kinds of information on how to communicate better in a marriage, how to 'fight'  better, set up rules that if we both held onto, it would not get out of hand, such as no screaming, no name calling, if we want a time out, we express it instead of just walking away, etc.
I suggested couples therapy, we went once.
I bought a book on how to stay in love in a marriage and work from there, and ask her to read it too; unfortunaly, none of those things worked.
I don't know if it's because she couldn't really stick to them, or because even when we did all those things, like the fair fighting rules, I would still be making things worse because I would unknowingly constantly invalidate her and make her feel bad because I didn't really hear her.
I only started to piece it together about BPD about a month ago, and then we were already in the latest crisis. I had the chance to start SET then a little bit, and in the little fights it definitely worked, but it doesn't seem to matter anymore, she keeps repeating she wants out, and I almost can't even blame her for it, because I feel so incredibly guilty for making her feel bad a long time even when I had good intentions.

[ellil]

Than I have failed her and made her worst fear of abadonment come true, even though she is the one pressing me for it.

CSSL, you did not fail her. The mental illness failed her, you, and your marriage. And she is her own unique, individual person, and I see you are now beginning to respect her decision(s), even though it's the last thing you want to do. I do not mean to imply you didn't respect her before, but allowing her to make this decision for herself and you accepting it shows what kind of person you are, and at the risk of overusing the word, I "respect" you for that.  

I had the chance to start SET then a little bit, and in the little fights it definitely worked, but it doesn't seem to matter anymore

This is not quite true! You can still learn these tools and use them throughout the upcoming months. You can reduce the tension and levels of stress while you go through the divorce, IF it comes to that. You don't really know what she's going to end up wanting to do. Keeping the tension low and arguments infrequent will let you decide WHAT is really best for you.

Let's say she never goes to therapy and treatment, would you want to still remain in the marriage if things were to not get any better than this? Don't assume the tools here will improve your situation much more, would you want to live with this exact situation? Are you still working on your boundaries?

 

M

[CSSL]

Thanks for the extra reassurance on failing Ellil.
Well, when it comes to boundaries: I am actualy so enraged right now I really need to vent for a second before I can even analyse which boundaries have been broken.
I had an ok day, finally, on my own: went doing groceries, came home, grabbed my camera, and walked in the city centre taking a little memory-tour; taking pictures of all the places that ment something to me in this town, mostly linked to my life with my wife, both good and bad memories. The plan is actually to start a blog, post the pictures with little stories about what happenned, and in this way kinda try to 'heel' myself; it may seem like a form of self torture, but with the fast pace everything is happening at I at least want to record all those memories, write them down, put pictures to them, so that at least I will always have that.
I even had dinner by myself, and a book, at the restaurant we went to in my first week here in France. I wanted to mark today as my first day really starting accepting, and going on, and dealing with what I am losing, and for some reason eating there, the same dish I had back then, made things full circle for me.
Anyway, all in all a nice day, considering the circumstances.

But, then I came home, and opened my email: my wife apparently drew a false conclusion of me talking to her friends about us divorcing, and before even asking me if that was really the case, she raged at me over email, and deleted me from facebook, AGAIN.
(I didn't talk to any of her friends: I had a post on my own wall asking if there was anyone in my network who could help me find housing in that other country in case I got the job. One of my wife's friends is in my friendlist and she saw that, and asked my wife about it.)
In any case, she raged, and then came with that she didn't want to meet in the house, but in the city, because I would be hysteric in any case and she didn't want to get in trouble with the neighbours.

My blood really started boiling there, but I ignored her accusations and rediculous conclusions and just responded with: No I don't want to meet outside of the house. It is sad enough as it is and if I have to cry I don't want to worry about people on the street.
You worry about your own reactions, I will take care of mine.


Her reply; meeting in the car then.
I stuck to a definite no. I wanted to do this talk properly.

But, I did want to talk to her normally, so I tried calling, and got her voicemail offcourse. I then tried the co-worker she is staying at, and she, sounding incredibly smug, refused to give my wife on the phone, because she would be sleeping already, even though we just talked on Gchat 2 seconds ago.
I then mailed my wife again if she could please call me, explaining how I tried to reach her, but she just simply refused with a: no. goodnight.

The immaturity, the coldness of it all, the nonsense of deleting me (for the second time) on facebook over something she made up in her head, the knowing for a fact that my wife is telling the people she is staying at (and her friends, and parents, and who knows who else) all kinds of crap about me, painting me black and making up lies, it has really pushed me over some sort of emotional boundary.
All I want at this point is that this divorce gets started up asap, and that while I am here, we make clear arrangements, when it comes to finances, our bills, groceries, and that she sticks to them without creating more drama.
God I am just so MAD!
How can she treat me like this? Yesterday I was feeling so much empathy/sympathy for her, but she has really pushed me over an edge.

I am so fed up.
How could I have handled all this better, with SET etc, and how on earth am I supposed to handle talking to her tomorrow?
My goal is to get information on how far she is in the processe of starting this divorce, deciding on a course together, and make some clear arrangements for the time that I have to be in our house, whether she wants to be here or not.
I know I may fell back to being all sad and hopeless again in a few hours, this isn't the first time she created drama over nothing, but for some reason this time it really got to me.

[CSSL]

I need to add this to my post, now that my anger has been toned down.
I am so sad by all of this, the drama, the weird situations, the way this marriage is going down the drain.
I know I am young, just 27, married at 26, but marriage for me is for a lifetime, it was a concious choice to marry this woman and stand by her, no matter what. I didn't know back then that she (very likely) has BPD, just that there were a lot of things that were off, but still. It's so hard to think and realise that what I felt, she probably didn't, according to the lessons I read in the lessons about how to deal with a break up with a pwBPD.
That the choice I made, the biggest one in my life so far, would be considered so meaningless by her in such a short amount of time. We have only been married 7 months, together for 14 months, and I still feel like I failed, like something that was and is very dear to me, her herself, the idea of marriage, the concept of a life long commitment, has been taken away from me.

[OnceConfused]

Buddha said it wisely, "you become what you think about ".

Be careful with what you think or the words you choose, my friend. For example, you did not fail in your marriage but perhaps this marriage is not the RIGHT one for you. Life is not made up of successes or failures, life is made up of a series of experiences and each builds on the previous one. So think of your marriage perhaps as an experience, a painful one at best.

I also think your notion of a marriage is for a life time is quite naive. If you really believe "stand by her, no matter what" then you should not be here. You should not have been in fights with her in the first place. The reality of it is that both of you could be INCOMPATIBLE and thus are causing each other the frustration and pain.

If you truly love her then you would want her to have the utmost happiness with or without you. If without you brings her more happiness or less rage then do you love her enough to walk away and to set her free ?  Why do you think by staying together you can make her happy?

[pallavirajsinghani]

CSSL:

In every primitive society there is a ritual that marks stepping into adulthood.  Some of these rituals survive even today (Bar Mitzvah for instance).  These are the demarcations of transformation from boys to men and girls to women.

Who says we become adults at 21?  Or 41?  Or 101?

27 years is as good an age as any.

This entire experience with your marriage is NOT a failure.  It has a purpose and a meaning afterall.  It is a ritual, a trial by fire.  Your spirit is literally walking on coals of lost dreams, shattered visions of "till death do us part".  Your spirit is in agony. 

Indeed a trial by fire.

It is a ritual which you will fulfill and the spirit will rise again out of the ashes, golden and fresh.  The phoenix will rise again.  Tomorrow is just around the corner.

40 years from now, you will be surrounded by your children and will have a grandson on your lap and you will look back and wonder if it all really happened or was it a figment of your imagination.

The only treasure we have is our good memories.  You have already started walking the road to wisdom.  You have already started to create, deliberately, artfully, good memories for yourself little by little (walking around the town, reading a bit, recording something of interest).  Someday you will make this chaotic process into a cohesive piece of journalism.  Perhaps you will write indepth about mental disorders as a journalist.

Create meaning out of chaos, create moments of sanity and happiness out of agony.  Be the artist that you are meant to be.

God bless.  You are the son I would have been so proud to have.  Sending a lot of maternal loving affectionate hugs to you.

[Fenghuang]

Hey CSSL. I am going to be brief here but please don't mistake that for lack of recognition for everything you are going through.

The same thing happened to me including the different country, similar circumstances etc.

I can only offer you a few words of advice and I hope you review some of my previous posts to see how my situation panned out.

I will say that at this point it is best to think only of yourself. You really need to because whether you may admit it or not you are in a storm and the only thing you can do is not let yourself get destroyed by it.

I have spent months on this board only to come to certain realizations about my separated wife and myself. One of those realizations was that I wasn't selfish enough. I didn't think of my own health when guilt and accusations flew. I didn't think of myself because I was consumed with grief over the loss of marriage, confusion that I was somehow blamed for it, shock at the almost surgical precision with which my wife dismantled our life and seemed to have back up plans for back up plans. Shocked when FB slandering occurred, when I expressed myself truthfully and honestly only to have it turned back on me. At the end of the day I felt as though I had murdered something beautiful, a dream two people had shared.

In reality I was experiencing the loss that both people should feel but only one does in a way that is understandable to 94-96 percent of the population.

I will share one bit of advice for you. For your sake don't fight it. Just let it roll over you. I fought the current, wasted months of my life fighting for a love I thought I had destroyed. But it didn't exist to begin with. She will make you feel so much - but it is all going to be part of an illusion that was crafted before. That is why its starting to break. Reality is shattering the mask. She might want you back one day and gone the next. Does it matter what you do? No. Because it is not you calling the shots.

You can expect that she will be serious about the divorce and that you will continue to endure hot/cold cycles. But remember what I said about "surgical precision." She has likely set wheels in motion that you don't even know about.

She wants the divorce but is still struggling with her own emotional attachment and disregulated feelings. But that doesn't change the fact that she has made herself comfortable with the thought of divorce.

I did something exceptionally hard and returned to my home country. I never wanted to separate from my wife. But whether the BPD person is capable of recognizing it. Leaving someone stranded in a foreign country is a hell of a threat even if it doesn't happen.

Maybe that would work for you. I don't know and won't recommend it as a course of action. But please keep yourself in mind. I say this because I know you are probably dealing with someone that doesn't feel the same about you and it is really hard to let that attachment go.

"But, my wife just got more and more to the point of definitely wanting out of our marriage." God I totally know how you feel. But remember it takes two. She is already "gone" in a sense so do the unnatural thing and think of "you" and not the "us."

"Does re-cycling almost always happen? How do I deal if it does?" - Ask yourself why you are asking this. When I asked the same question it was because I wanted things with my couple of month old marriage to go back to the way they were. I wanted somehow for my wife to say. Hey sorry I didn't mean to ask you to leave or end our marriage. It won't ever happen again. - But she couldn't promise that and the only hope I had to cling to was that I would be recycled. Which in itself is messed up. Why want someone back into your life that is so capable of ripping it apart. If/when it happens you might be in a surprisingly different frame of mind.

take care of yourself, and use this board often. - Listening to the kind people here share their stories kept me from thinking I was the one going insane.

My thoughts are with you friend.

[CSSL]

Thank you for your kind responses.
I woke up feeling horrible, and made it worse by going on her FB page: she posted a picture of her looking perfectly happy, with her ex, at a club she was this weekend. While I was feeling like dying of heartbreak, she was partying. Her ex has a gf and I don't think my wife is doing anything with her, but that picture of just pure nonchalance and happyness made me realise only more: she is in a different place. I am indeed feelings this loss on my own.
It's worse than I thought, knowing for a fact she is moving on.

rsmp41, going back to my homecountry is actually almost my only option, if I don't get the job I am hoping for in that other country. I only came here for my wife and her job, and I have nothing here, no job, no friends, and the possibillity of finding a job here is almost next to zero in my field, being a journalist and not speaking this countries language. I tried freelancing since I am here but as a starting journalist my network was and is way too small.
She won't be abandoned. She abandoned me. She wants me gone, asap, even.

If she would recycle, than yes, I would have to try, I couldn't walk away without it. I have to know for sure that even when I use all the new things I learned about BPD, our marriage will still not work.
I am so afraid of moving away too fast, because once I do that there is really no way back anymore.

I actually have that job interview in 2 hours and feel less than ever up to it. I really need to get myself together. Seeing that picture, it really makes me go back to feeling the loss more than ever.

pallavirajsinghani , the phoenix actually corresponds with my astro-sign, the scorpio. I even have a huge phoenix tattoo on my arm. (Oh, and I am girl btw, we were a lesbian couple, so I guess I would be the daughter, not the son than ).
I got that tattoo because I overcame a lot from my past, growing up in an abusive home, and I thought I could do anything after that, but it  seems like this will be so much harder and more painful than anything I have ever experienced.
I am trying to accept that I am indeed grieving over an illusion that was created, even though my experience of it was completely real, and that makes it somehow all the more worse.

Onceconfused, it may have been naive, but it is what I always believed in and still do: when I choose someone, it's for life. No matter what in this means: even is she is ill, even if I made mistakes, even if she did. I actually feel a bit attacked by you at the moment, so I'll go into your post later after I had some time to think about what you wrote.

In any case, thanks for all the responses, again.
Another question: with handeling talking to her tonight, would showing my emotions be useless/triggering to her?
I cry quite fast, even more so now, but realising that she is no where near that stage of grief and loss, and can't feel empathy for me maybe, would it only make things worse?
Can I still ask about why and all, aks for explanations, or should I just go directly to the stuff that needs to be arranged and leave the emotional part out?

[ellil]

Hi CSSL, by the time I posted this, you were in your interview! How do you think it went?

I do not think that marriage for life is naive and I share that belief, even though I am divorced after a very long marriage. I just think your statement needs to be tweaked:

marriage with the right person is for a life time

It seems to me farther down the road, if this divorce happens, you will have grown in many positive ways from this experience. Someone above wisely said life is not successes and failures, but a series of experiences and I might add making us who we are to be. I think I see you being a very loving and caring woman with a bright future ahead of her and whomever you end up with is going to be very lucky to have you.

M

[pallavirajsinghani]

Hugs and kisses daughter CSSL.  Glad to see you posted a smiley sigh.  Yep...I would be totally proud to have you as my daughter.  Bright, intelligent, sensitive, loyal to a fault, committed and a fighter...

Except a fighter for a cause that may,...just may, be questionable.

I hope that someday you will be detached enough to process all this emotion, this entire experience into a story, a novel, a blog, a published journal, a movie script, a poem, a song, a stand-up comic skit.

I am from India where the "ancientness" resides in the very core of our being, our each blood cell is eons and eons old.  We carry the sense of the eternity within us.

And we are the ones who think of destruction as just one turn of the dance with creation.  Shiva...the dark destroyer is not evil.  He dances the Tandave in a ring of fire...destroying the good and the bad alike...and from the ashes Brahma (the creator), brings out a new order.

The dance is beautiful.

This painful experience, may someday become a foundation or a subject matter of something beautiful.  A beautiful life, a beautiful art-piece.

Be an artist of your own life.

Be an artist.  Edit.

Be a journalist.

Edit.  Edit.  Edit.

All punctuation marks are important.  A period (full stop as it is called in my country), is only a finality of one sentence.  A bad phase is only one sentence in the giant epic of your life.  A bad memory is only one discordant...and important note in the entire symphonia of the music of your heart beat and your breaths.

Persevere my daughter...for this too shall end.

:-)

[CSSL]

Hi everyone, thank you once again for all your kind, caring reactions.
Yesterday has been really hard in a lot of ways and I feel myself sliding away again to holding on against hope and just hurting myself in the proces.

First I need to adresse this: Yes, my notion of marriage may have been naive, and that the idea that it is for a lifetime still stands. The addition that was posted in this thread, that is has to be with the right person: well, for me, I still truly believe she is, deep inside. Not because I am some sort of masochist, or because I want to ignore how she has hurt me and I her. Something is telling me still that she is the one I am supposed to be with, even with all of this going on.

So, yesterday, the job interview; mixed feelings. Very mixed feelings. They have asked me to do a test translation after the interview, so I try to see that as a good sign; why waste anyones time on that if they already knew they didn't want me for the job?
So after handing that in I have to wait to see if they want to see me for a third and final interview.
I know this board is supposed to be anonymous but it's getting confusing to constantly tell these things in vague terms, so I've decided to at least be clear about this, which will make posting for me about these subjects easier too. I am Dutch, my wife isn't, we live in France now, the job would be in Berlin, Germany.
I am more confused than ever if I should take the job if I get it, because the starting date would be incredibly fast, faster even than divorce proceedings can be started up. I would be expected to move there before the end of June, and I haven't even arrived at a place yet emotionally where I can accept that this divorce will happen.
Yesterday, my wife came to our house to talk. It was incredibly emotional, she stayed for several hours, we held eachother, we kissed, and I tried to say my goodbyes too, thanking her for the time I've had with her, the amazing moments, even the bad ones, and trying to make clear to her that yes, I will let her go if that is what makes her happy, but that she is also knows I don't want this, I still want her.
She was incredibly sad herself, said several times that seeing me made her want to be with me again and just be close again, but she cannot allow herself that, because 'things will have to end at some point anyway.' She is convinced that no matter what, we will end, and this belief I can't fight against and don't know how to. She in convinced that making things better is not possible, or rather;  it may be possible but she afraid of us failing again. So she'd rather walk away now, and be done with it all as fast as she can.
I also found out she signed up for a dating website and is in contact with a woman, who she swears is just based on talking and friendship because that woman is in a break up too, and she swears she has not met and will not meet up with her as long as this is going on, because she wants to honour or marriage vows at least in that way.
The fact that she is on such a website should be enough for me to say: that's my limit. But even that boundary I let fade away within a half hour of knowing it was crossed.
I want to believe her desperately, I want to try to make her see that it is all fear that is making her run, and I know I can't. I know I have to stop fighting and it is harder than ever.
And then the job: getting it and taking it would be putting everything in fast forward, it would be going against my feeling of what is right. At the same time: what if this job is a sign from the universe to let go?
I am so incredibly sad, desperate and confused, and this sense of loss is bigger than anything I have ever experienced. How can losing her be the right thing when I see it is killing her too to lose me?

[CSSL]

Another update; there were things to arrange today, lawyers to talk too, and I broke down when my wife and I exchanged information over the phone.
She then agreed to come by the house to talk to me later in the evening, to help me understand, find some peace.
She came way sooner than expected, brought dinner for us both, it was emotional, it was sad, it got physical, we kissed again, and as she was leaving I saw from our apartment window that she didn't drive away, so I ran downstairs on socks and sat with her in the car. She has to let go she says, I have to.
I am trying to understand why she has to, why she feels that way, try to respect that she feels that way, so that maybe in that I find some peace, but I still cannot change the way I feel, the fact that I do see ways for things to be good, become better. That for me letting go is utterly impossible, that I feel so much belonging with her, to her.
It seems to make her calm, our calm moments, sometimes intimate moments, I even made her laugh/smile today, but she is still very certain that she wants a divorce, and I am hoping against hope again, hurting only myself, because being with her is like breathing. Losing her is, well, like dying. Life will it's shine, it's meaning, and I know everyone keeps telling me that that will change over time, but I also know myself, and I know it wont, not for me. The thought of all the years to come in which I have lost her, the thought of all the years that feel empty, no matter who I meet, no matter where I go, she might still struggle in a way, is awful.
She even expressed today that a life alone would be easier, a life with someone she does not love would be easier, because in a life with me she is and would always be too afraid to ~ because of the way she is.
I wish I knew what to say to make her feel better, to get through to her that for me it is not like that and she does not have to be afraid.
Can anyone please give me tips on how to anwser  to these kinds of things without engulfing her or invalidating her?

[babe67]

  well Im kind of going through the same thing with my wife. She also said she is going to divorce me but still has not. I is almost like something they want to do but are afraid to let go. I know if she does file i am just going to fall apart.
  She is with someone else now and it hurts so bad. but nothing i can do. I thought about moving away but i cant stand the thought of leaving her.

[CSSL]

Update:
She came by the house again today, because I asked her too. Third day in a row.
It went totally wrong, I engulfed and invalidated her begging pleading crying again.
As I was doing it I knew it was wrong, could see her getting more upset by the minute, and I just couldn't stop.
The past days have been getting harder and harder. Can't sleep till it's 5 or 6 in the morning, wake way too soon again, can't eat, constantly cry, can't stop thinking, feel awful, feel empty, feel lost.
So I took anti-anxiety meds today. And got a prescription for a month. And I drank today, which I am a bit ashamed off, because I have been straight edge my entire life and I am totally going against all my principles. Like nothing matters anymore.
I did also get a diary, and that helps a bit, to write in it.
I still can't let go, I will never be able to, and she just seems to find it so easy, even when she says she doesn't. She signed up on a dating website for crying out loud, she is in contact with some woman, they even exchanged phone numbers, but she swears it means nothing and they will not meet up and that she will stick to our vows of being faithful as long as all of this is going on.
The reality of it all hits me harder every day. I am losing her, I have lost her, I'm alone now, no matter how she behaves sometimes towards me. It hurts too much, this reality.
We kissed the past days, we were close. We call again every day, she uses all my old loving nicknames in emails. And I am hoping again, pleading again, begging again.
This can't go on and I can't seem to turn things around.
I'm breaking here, I really need help.

[an0ught]

Hi CSSL,

Update:
She came by the house again today, because I asked her too. Third day in a row.
It went totally wrong, I engulfed and invalidated her begging pleading crying again.
As I was doing it I knew it was wrong, could see her getting more upset by the minute, and I just couldn't stop.

You may feel like you messed up big time but are NOT guilty - this is FOG - see also all the other supportive posts on this thread. In such a heated situation it takes super-human capabilities to stay calm and control the conversation according to the script you may have laid out in your head or imagine being able to execute. If you are guilty then you are guilty of being a human being with emotions - and no one on the board will judge you for that. Nor should you - however hard it is.

The past days have been getting harder and harder. Can't sleep till it's 5 or 6 in the morning, wake way too soon again, can't eat, constantly cry, can't stop thinking, feel awful, feel empty, feel lost.
So I took anti-anxiety meds today. And got a prescription for a month. And I drank today, which I am a bit ashamed off, because I have been straight edge my entire life and I am totally going against all my principles. Like nothing matters anymore.
I did also get a diary, and that helps a bit, to write in it.

Good you are writing   . Still mixing alcohol with such meds may not be the best idea...

I still can't let go, I will never be able to, and she just seems to find it so easy, even when she says she doesn't. She signed up on a dating website for crying out loud, she is in contact with some woman, they even exchanged phone numbers, but she swears it means nothing and they will not meet up and that she will stick to our vows of being faithful as long as all of this is going on.
The reality of it all hits me harder every day. I am losing her, I have lost her, I'm alone now, no matter how she behaves sometimes towards me. It hurts too much, this reality.
We kissed the past days, we were close. We call again every day, she uses all my old loving nicknames in emails. And I am hoping again, pleading again, begging again.
This can't go on and I can't seem to turn things around.
I'm breaking here, I really need help.

       Breaking up is very, very painful and the emotions can be overwhelming. In such cases it helps to reach out to real life support - family, friends, a T or even a local crisis hotline. There is someone willing to lend a ear. Writing here helps too. As does doing something else to occupy your mind.

If you have not done so, maybe read the LESSONS at the top of the leaving board (they are quite different) to get some rationale perspective on the detaching process. Nothing will be able to stop this pain of your heart being ripped in two right now but over time it will ebb  

Hang in there  

[pallavirajsinghani]

It is so much easier to fall in love, harder to fall out of it and hardest to sustain it...the third part sometimes impossible...because everything is not under a person's control.

I am sending you lots of hugs and warm, fuzzy comforting sensations...think of this post as a cuddly warm cozy comforting blanket wrapped all around you.

Blessings.

[CSSL]

Thank you both Anought and pallavirajsinghani, even those replies make me tear up again.
I know rationally that life does not end with this, because of this, should not end because of this, I know and heard all those things about 'more fish in the sea' etc, I will feel better over time etc, but the fact is: I don't, I'm not, and suicidal thoughts are resurfacing again. I know them, recognise them, can put them on pause, but they are there.
I am slightly calmer at the moment; on anti-anxiety pill again, anything to take the edge off.

As soon as my mind starts going to 'She does not want me it's over, everything I do in this hous is one of the last times I'll ever do them, she is happy at the moment, not caring that much, she can choose to be without me and she has, it's a choice for her, I am a choice for her, our life together is over' I try to somehow block them, and I think the pills help for the moment a bit with that, because all of it, all those truths are too overwhelming to handle, or to even function under them.
I can't say or post anything positive at the moment, I'm sorry. I know a lot of people on these boards who went through the same are a lot stronger than I am and learn to let go. I am getting more and more afraid that I am not that kind of person, that I've never been that stable and that this is just the final push. FOG or not, BPD or not, I have lost her, and life has lost it's meaning for me.


And to not make anyone here worry; Yes I do talk to people, have a few people who are willing to let me cry and talk whenever needed, which is amazing of them. At the same time i feel guilty taking up their time and all I do is repeat the same things over and over again anyway, without getting to a point where I start to see things differently. Maybe it just needs time. Maybe it's ok to use pills for now to get through the worst. I don't know. Maybe when I become more stable and accepting she will stay after all. And I am starting to even hate myself for still hoping and being so weak and borderline stupid about it.

And I'm sorry to bother you all with this selfloathing crap. I do recognise that my behaviour is changing and that I should probably look into getting professional help, because this feels more and more like a real depression, not just being sad and unable to cope.

[Rose Tiger]

    Came over here to check on you.  Congrats on the job interview going well, Germany would be awesome.

I can relate so well to your suffering, I too had an abusive childhood, I too see marriage as a very serious commitment.  The deal is that the pain is so completely incredible is because us adult children from abusive homes feel the pain of the past and the present combined.  All those childhood wounds plus this present situation are felt exponentially and it is much much much more painful than a normal relationship troubles.  What is coming up just feels so overwhelming!  I want you to hang in there!  It is going to get better, I promise, you hang in there.

I wanted my partner to just come back to stop the pain.  I wanted the pain to stop.  He was saying the same things, that he just didn't see how it could work out.  I felt like how can he walk away, why isn't he in the same pain as I was, how is he able to function when I can't even sleep anymore.  It totally confounded me.  I kept plodding along, putting one foot in front of the other, do the best I could at work, trying to take care of me, reading everything I could on BPD to understand.  It was really tough but I did it.  A part of me always believed we would be back together, even when it looked impossible.  I cried, I read, I worked and little by little it got better.  Time is on your side, divorce just doesn't happen overnight and it's obvious your wife has feelings for you.  I know it all looks impossible now.  Hang on.