She wants a divorce - what can I expect?

[Think About It...]

Like Rose above, I cam here real quick to check on you too.  A brief response to the following:


And I'm sorry to bother you all with this selfloathing crap. I do recognise that my behaviour is changing and that I should probably look into getting professional help, because this feels more and more like a real depression, not just being sad and unable to cope.

1)  No, don't be sorry at all because this is the safe and the appropriate place to vent and be candid and let it all hang out.

2)  You are going through grief.  You are mourning.  It is not self-loathing.  The death of a dream is worth shedding tears for.

3)  The stronger your humanity, the larger the torrent of tears.

4)  Getting grief counseling is always a great idea.  I muddled through a traumatic period in my life and took 8 years to do so.  Had I known the value of professional help, it would have been shortened to 1 year.

5)  Rational words like,  "Plenty of fish in the sea", "time will heal", "it is not the end of the world" etc. are true.  However, this is not the time you can feel the healing aspect of these words.  Right now these words won't help.  You can understand the reason behind these and also accept these to be valid in time.  However these are not healing words at this time.

6)  Let tears fall.  Post here.  Let her see your grief too.  You are in pain.  Howl, rage against God, rage against injustice.  Get it out. 

What the grief counseling will NOT prevent you from grieving.  Grieving is a valid process of acceptance of the worst.  What grief counseling will help you do is:

Not to express grief in self-destructive ways (alcohol, self-medication with pot, drugs, prescription drugs, self-cutting, self-harm in other ways etc.)  It will help you manage grief and perhaps even channel it.

I manage my sorrow and grief by helping others here.  You will find an appropriate way too.

Saffron is the color of benediction.  So I send this post with benediction.

[pallavirajsinghani]

Like Rose above, I cam here real quick to check on you too.  A brief response to the following:


And I'm sorry to bother you all with this selfloathing crap. I do recognise that my behaviour is changing and that I should probably look into getting professional help, because this feels more and more like a real depression, not just being sad and unable to cope.

1)  No, don't be sorry at all because this is the safe and the appropriate place to vent and be candid and let it all hang out.

2)  You are going through grief.  You are mourning.  It is not self-loathing.  The death of a dream is worth shedding tears for.

3)  The stronger your humanity, the larger the torrent of tears.

4)  Getting grief counseling is always a great idea.  I muddled through a traumatic period in my life and took 8 years to do so.  Had I known the value of professional help, it would have been shortened to 1 year.

5)  Rational words like,  "Plenty of fish in the sea", "time will heal", "it is not the end of the world" etc. are true.  However, this is not the time you can feel the healing aspect of these words.  Right now these words won't help.  You can understand the reason behind these and also accept these to be valid in time.  However these are not healing words at this time.

6)  Let tears fall.  Post here.  Let her see your grief too.  You are in pain.  Howl, rage against God, rage against injustice.  Get it out. 

What the grief counseling will NOT prevent you from grieving.  Grieving is a valid process of acceptance of the worst.  What grief counseling will help you do is:

Not to express grief in self-destructive ways (alcohol, self-medication with pot, drugs, prescription drugs, self-cutting, self-harm in other ways etc.)  It will help you manage grief and perhaps even channel it.

I manage my sorrow and grief by helping others here.  You will find an appropriate way too.

Saffron is the color of benediction.  So I send this post with benediction.

[CSSL]

Thank you for your responses Rose Tiger and pallavirajsinghani .
Rose Tiger; did your partner come back? Did he change his mind? I know I shouldn't get hope from another person's experience, I know I should give up on hope all together, but I can't.

And pallavirajsinghani, your kinds words at least help with the self loathing.

I am seeing again that my wife is distancing herself more. No more emails, no calls, nothing to acknoledge me or the horrible situation we are in.
I actually went out for the first time in ages yesterday, by myself, and met some nice people from this town. They invited me over for this weekly brunch they have every sunday and I went there too.
It was nice meeting people, new faces, new stories, but I was and am still feeling empty. I don't want these experiences without my wife, without being able to share it with her. It feels weird and wrong to be even doing things without her knowing it. It feels horrible being away from home, knowing that when I come back she won't be there, having missed me.
During the brunch I actually had to take another xanax because I started tearing up again out of nowhere in the middle of the caf

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[CSSL]

Time is on your side, divorce just doesn't happen overnight and it's obvious your wife has feelings for you.  I know it all looks impossible now.  Hang on.

That's the thing; time isn't on my side. If I get berlin, it would mean moving within 3 weeks maybe. If I get it, I don't know how I could ever turn such a job down; it's a once in a life time opportunity. I couldn't reject it just because I am hoping that if I am long enough in our home my wife will change her mind. Could I?
 If I don't get the job, I do have a bit more time being in our house in France because then I have to start arranging everything for moving out, but even then; my wife wants this divorce done and over with asap, already arranging documents and what not, wants me to be gone asap. She does not want any time to think things through or take the risk of changing her mind.
I feel like nothing is on my side at the moment, and whatever step I will take, it will always have negative consequences on the marriage and wanting to save it, even though she doesn't want to.

[Rose Tiger]

    If you get the job, take it!   

Here's how it played out for me.  I was too trauma bonded or whatever to give up.  My husband had shut down all his feelings towards me, neat little trick, feel no pain, feel no love, feel nothing, dead.  I knew he was pushing all those feelings down and man, I wished I knew how to do that.  I would love to switch them off like turning off a light.

So I knew, he loves me, deep down wherever that feeling was locked up.  I had hope that it would eventually surface.  It took a long time.  I'd say close to a year for him to rediscover that walking away from our relationship didn't solve the pain inside him.  He thought since I was the problem that having me gone would solve everything.  It didn't, of course.  It takes time though for them to realize it, if they ever do.

Work can be a life saver through all this, something to focus on and feel good about.  Germany is not that far from France.

[Rose Tiger]

While we were separated, I found this random post on the web.  It's broken english and simple but so wise.

Hi  How are you? I hope you have a good day to day.
I want to share some of my story.

I am not with me husband too It takes a time. to be heal.

and It is day by day,

Cry if you want to. and talk and share too.

If you dont know how to love yourself. you will have a hard time no matter who you will stay,

Only you can learn how to love yourself.

please don_

[CSSL]

Rose Tiger, I don't think I have the luxury of time of being separated and hoping that she will want me later again. If this divorce happens, and it is, she wants me gone asap.

We just talked on the phone, we agreed to daily phone calls to make arrangemens and exchanging info, and she started raging on me and I don't understand why.

When my wife first said she wanted a divorce, she said she couldn't be in the house with me, so she is staying at a co-worker, now for about a week and a half.
Also; our home is being payed by her and her job, and I came here without a job, gave my job up for her. We always had the agreement that her being the sole provider for now would be ok, and that I would have time to find something for myself. Just to make things clear: we have only been her 7 months, married 8 months today. (Happy anniversary to me.)

We always said even back when things were good, that if it ever went wrong, I could stay in our home as long as needed to get back on my feet, as in arranging moving across Europe again, finding a job and housing again, because I did come here trusting her on her word that she would not treat me unfairly if we would ever seperate.

Now she started raging on the phone that
- I am not doing anything to get the divorce (not true; I am contacting lawyers because we have to get the divorce under dutch law and she does not speak dutch, I am getting documents and whatever is needed without needlessly delaying things even though i don't want this divorce),
- that she wants me gone out of the house asap and she does not trust me with signing for the divorce (I don't even know where that comes from; that I would threaten not to sign is completely in her head alone), - that I want to stay in the house for ages and ages while she 'has'  to stay at a co-worker (also not true; depending on berlin i would be gone really fast, and plan b, not getting berlin, would mean being here a bit longer till i find somethng in the netherlands again, and she already agreed to that before too, that that would be ok. And she can perfectly well stay in our home, she just does not want to)
and she just kept going on and on with all kinds of false accusations and I don't know what I did or said to trigger her or make her feel unsafe. She kept repeating she felt unsafe and did not trust me on my word to go through with the divorce, and I don't understand why, because I am taking all the legal steps.
She also does not seem to comprehend that getting a divorce started up takes time too, and it does not happen in a matter of weeks, especially when you have to get documents in three countries.

She seems completely disregulated and I don't understand why.
Whenever she gets like this I almost wanna just say ' ~ it' to everything, pack one suitcase, and leave and never care about her again, but then i also remember seeing her crying in my arms last week, being hurt, having a hard time missing me, and when i see all  that pain, and i hear her rage and all I hear is pain too, I don't know what to do then.
I hope and wish that she will see that with me being gone, her pain still wont be probably. But still; by then I am long gone, on her wishes, not mine. I don't have any choices in everything that is going on.

I think the best thing I can do for now is: get as stable as I can for the moment for her, and deal with my pain, loss and grief on my own on the side.
Keep it to factual exchange of information with her, and when she starts saying weird things, just try to validate instead of going for logic and self defense. (I did that on the phone and it made it all worse. I think I made her feel like her needs don't matter to me.)
There is one thing bothering me though: she said I could stay in our home as long as I needed, and now she takes that back whenever she wants when she gets mad.
She is the one who wanted to stay at a co-workers house, even though we have a large guest room in our home.
She does not seem to be able to face the consequences of her own decisions, in this case; her being not in our home because she does not want to, but now that's somehow my fault too.

How do I deal with this without making things worse? I read somewhere that you should not protect the pwBPD from the consequences of their own actions. All I could say  was that she can be in the house whenever she wants too, and that yes it would probably be hard, but that that is the consequence of her wanting a divorce and not being able to get rid of me as she did in the past with past lovers and flings, because she is legally bound to me and this house is my home too.
Her response to that: I never should have married you.
This is all driving me nuts. At least for once I am not crying but rather agitated.
Advice people, please give me some advice here.

[CSSL]

Could it be that she feels invalidated in her wish for wanting a divorce because she sees and hears me cry and be upset, (and sometimes still plead and beg), even though I am taking the steps to get divorced because that is what she wants?
How can I change this?
Could it be that when I get all factual myself, leave my emotions and pain out of it, she will feel validated in her decision and maybe not want to go through with it anymore?
I know it may be just false hope on my side, the wish that she will drop wanting to get divorced.
 But, as I am just realising, if I do manage to keep my pain out of my conversations with her, even if it wont make her change her mind, maybe it will at least not trigger her into raging and feeling invalidated?

[Rose Tiger]

It could be extinction bursts because you aren't reacting like you did in the past.

Partner:  I'm upset, fix it!

You:  I understand you are upset and would like resolution.

Partner: @#$%!

You aren't saying, oh sweetie darling, let me make it all better and comfy by disappearing off the face of the earth.  You can't.   

Partner:  @#$%!

You:  Let's speak when we can discuss this calmly.  Good bye. *click*

There is no reason to listen to someone being abusive.  Letting it continue it just spirals out of control.  I know you want to resolve and get things straightened out.  There just isn't any way to do that when she is raging.

Want to pass on, my husband and I went three months with pretty much no contact after the break.  I was FREAKING OUT.  It was a blessing in disguise, I needed that time to recover, figure out what the heck just happened and get strong enough to deal with this.

[CSSL]

Thanks for the tip on how to handle that Rose Tiger.

I still feel such a time pressure: she wants me gone ASAP. If I get Berlin, I would have to go really fast, and if I don't I can buy some time being here in France but the divorce proceedings are still happening and I just wish so badly for some time, also for her to maybe change her mind.

It feels like her pushing us into divorce, me then moving away, are such definite things.
And than when she changes her mind, how could I say; 'Ok sure, I'll move across Europe for you again!' Who would do that? How can I get divorced, move, all of that, and then still hope and wish it can all be turn around again? At the moment it feels like; as long as I don't move and the divorce gets put off, we have a chance.
But when and if all this happens, and it is, than how could there ever be a way back?
Are there couples who got divorced and got back together again? BPD and non couples?

And gosh, Berlin at the moment really feels like a big black piano that can fall on me any minute. The confusing thing is: if my wife really really really is sure about divorce, no matter how much time and validation passes, Berlin would be really good for me. I am just so afraid it's too fast if I get it. And at the same time I want it.

[CSSL]

And Rose Tiger, what happenned after those 3 months? What changed in you and what in him? How did you move on from such a horrible time? How did you get closer again? How did you behave towards him in those months?

[Rose Tiger]

The job may or may not happen, let it unfold before you think about what that would mean.  Right now you made it through two interviews, that's awesome.  Let fate decide the rest and then make decisions as they come up.  Continue to explore other jobs, too.

I got into intensive therapy, I told the therapist that I never want to feel like this ever again, I wanted to heal, I wanted to be strong.  I started inner child healing going all the way back to the beginning.  I continued to learn about BPD.  I learned how my past issues contributed to my problems in the here and now.

My husband got into treatment himself, a bit half heartedly because he believed I was the one with the issues. 

We started talking occasionally, I was practicing validation and I didn't put any pressure on him.  Then later we started meeting up occasionally.  We genuinely like each other very much, we do enjoy being together.  It was very slow and cautious, baby steps.  I understood all the things I had done wrong and contributed to the break up, I'm healing and stronger.  I could handle being without him now so if it happens again, I'll be ok.  When you can handle the thought of losing them, the relationship takes on a new feeling of appreciation and not so much pressure to change the other person.  My getting healthy has encouraged him to improve himself and I'm letting it be his deal, I don't try to fix anymore.

[Rose Tiger]

There are a lot of inner child healing sources on the web, too.  I was a sponge those months.  I wanted healing and I wanted it fast.

[CSSL]

If only we had the time for all of that.
And speaking of time, I sort of had a little revelation after talking to a friend just now, and I would like some feedback from the people who follow this thread:
(revelation being about me standing up for myself)

As I expressed a lot of times already, I feel like everything is going to fast, like I can't catch up.
My wife suddenly wants a divorce, wants it asap, wants me gone asap, and I am giving in to every request because I don't want to make things worse and I don't want her raging on me. But in doing this, I have ignored all my feelings, wants and needs, because she does too.
I don't want this divorce, that's clear. We've only been married 8 months, and marriage takes two, but so does divorce. Now I am not saying that I want to get all difficult on getting this divorce, and that I want to push my wife into taking all kinds of legal steps according to french law,(which she threatens with all the time) which would be bad for both us, being more expensive, time consuming, etc.

What I would want is another try to see if things can work before we go to such extremes as divorce. My wife will clearly not meet this wish, so that's that.
What I need is some time here, to wrap my head around all of this, and to then, when we indeed have to get the divorce started in agreement together according to dutch law, that I at least don't feel so pushed, violated almost, as if nothing of my feelings, wants or emotions matter at all.

Do you guys think this is reasonable: That I sit down with my wife, tomorrow or whenever, and say:
"I know you want to divorce, and you know that I don't, that I still see chances and possibilities.
I see you don't want to try again and I accept that.
Everything that has been happening has been happening way too fast for me: when I left our home, it would be for both of us to think, and when I came back you were already talking to a lawyer and telling me you want me gone out of our home asap. For me this came out of nowhere, and the fast pace in which you are moving is making me feel really uncomfortable.
I would like some time, a week or two, in which all this divorce talk stops. You can stay in our home if you want, or stay at those co-workers, it's up to you. I would like this time to be able to catch up myself, get my feelings sorted out, and proceed with getting the divorce started in a way in which I, with my wishes and needs, feel respected too.
Me asking for time does not mean I will work against you in getting divorced. I will still take all the necessary steps and sign the necessary papers with you.
But at the moment I do feel rushed and pushed and we are in very different emotional stages and I simply need some time."

What do you guys think?
In a way offcourse I do hope that with at least giving me some time to breath/think, she might change her mind, but that is not my mine objective with asking for time.
I just realised tonight suddenly that it is ridiculous that she can just do all this, threaten me like this, almost erase our marriage from one day to the other, expect me to dissapear from her life just like that, because that's what she wants and she wants it all to be done as soon as possible.
Why should I have to agree to all of that, to all those as soon as possibles and whatever? Can't I have some time here, some moments to breath, think, reassess? Isn't that the very least I should be able to ask for?

PS: Gonna definitely look up things about inner child healing, thanks for the tip Rose Tiger
PPS: This whole me asking for time does not depend on getting Berlin or not, it would just mean that would I get it, starting up the divorce would be with me being in germany and her in france.
PPS: And now my wife is emailing again that she loves me.
I am so confused. What is she doing?
Is this love coming because I validated her in my email that tried to do damage control after her raging?

[CSSL]

-pasted in to my post above-

[Rose Tiger]

My suggestion, if you want to attempt to bargain is to speak about therapy for you both, that you both have issues that counselling might help with and maybe with therapy, there might be a chance for your marriage to work out. 

There is info on this site about therapeutic separations.  I think on the staying board to the right, when all else fails.

This is a bargaining point that works toward healing and reconciliation. 

[CSSL]

Bargaining is over; she does not want therapy, she does not want me to do therapy, she does not want to try anything to make things work. She has made that very clear. She just wants to get rid of me and our life asap, because that's convenient for her.

All I want is some time myself before she forces me to follow in her wishes to divorce, so that I can catch up, slow down, breath, and when I take all the steps for filing for divorce, then at least I won't feel anymore that forced by just her wants and needs.

[pallavirajsinghani]

hen I take all the steps for filing for divorce, then at least I won't feel anymore that forced by just her wants and needs.

CSSL:  It does not make sense for you to ask, "How High?"  when she says,  "Jump".

She wants a divorce.  Calmly repeat,  "Sure, I will be happy to grant you your freedom.  Just bring me the papers and I will sign."

When she says, "Leave the house."

Say,   "Sure, I will as soon as I can."  (No definite date, no time).  If you need to be more specific then say,  "I will leave when the divorce is final and I have the decree in my hand."

Raging?  Read "Lessons" as to how to handle Rages.  Do not justify, do not defend, do not engage. Do not attack.   This will take a lot of mental practice.

Then if divorce happens, then make sure you have the decree in hand before you leave (if you can afford to).  There have been many posts here on this board where people have found out after falling in love with other persons that the BPD sufferer never followed through the actual process of divorce and technically they were still married.

The less you speak to her, the less dysregulated she will be and the more composed (resigned?)you will be.

[CSSL]

Dear pallavirajsinghani ,

it is not that simple, that I just simply do all she wants.

That is the thing that is hurting me and is making me feel forced to do all by her wishes, on her time scedule, without any room for me.

The facts are: We need to get a dutch divorce. She can't apply for that on her own, because she is not dutch. Her options are: applying for a french one, which will have a lot of down sides for both of us, or applying together with me for a dutch one, since I am dutch.

The thing here is, or rather: why this all makes me feel so bad: I don't want this divorce at all. I don't want to feel forced to have to go through arranging everything to apply for a divorce together because she wants it all done asap. She may have been in a divorce state of mind for ages, for me it is all still out of the blue. To expect of me to do all this so fast seems unfair, unreasonable, and not honouring the life we share(d) in france.
So to take some time, like 2 weeks, to have no contact, settle into getting into all these things I still do not want, would that really still be disregulating and what not to her? Why does everything have to always be about her, what she wants, what's convenient for her? what about my own needs?
I will still apply with her for the divorce, but with having some time to let it all sink in instead of just jumping through hoops on her command feels better to me now.
And applying together for a divorce I don't want, just like that, no time to think, I jump when she says I have to, just feels wrong.

[Rose Tiger]

Asking for a time out breather is reasonable.  She knows that you love her a lot and that this is very painful to process.  You can mention that the mixed messages confuse you even more.  If you feel the need to just regain equilibrium, then that's what you need.     

[CSSL]

Hi everyone,

another day, more updates, things are going way too fast.
I just got news that Berlin wants to have a third and final interview with me this week, which is actually great news.

I am supposed to see my wife tonight, we need to discuss transferring money for bills etc, and I am already deadly nervous about saying: this all goes way too fast for me, I need some time.
I am afraid of her raging, threatening with all kinds of things, etc.
I also decided that if I don't get the job, I dont want to officially move out untill I have it on paper in front of me that the divorce is through, and if I do get the job, than I still don't want to move out officially either, but then I will find a temporary place to stay in Berlin in any case. I am just a bit afraid that that way if I don't get it arranged that my property is moved, that I will maybe never get it back either.
I wonder what her obligations to fiancially support me are if  get the job and we are still married and I have to live somewhere else then?
Gonna talk to another lawyer this afternoon.

I am so overwhelmed with everything. Gonna try to eat something, feel way to weak to face my wife tonight with my needs and wishes.