Why Do We Ignore the Red Flags?

[Think About It...]

Credit to MindfulJavaJoe for inspiring this topic.  It is also an important and timely topic for me as I enter the second phase of recovery where I focus the laser on myself.

Why did I ignore the red flags?  Why did I rationalize the red flags?

I knew my exBPGgf for 9 years before she enmeshed me into her madness.  I knew she cheated regularly on her exH.  I will freely admit that she and I messed around some before they got married when they were dating.  Is that not a red flag in and of itself? Of course, it is.  I flat out ignored it with full intellectual knowledge of what that implied about her character exclusive of her being a BPD.

Fast forward to when she called me about a year out of being divorced from her shivering husk of an exH (HNM knows why now!), and told me that she wanted a relationship with me.  I went over to her house and within 20 minutes we are having sex.  Red Flag, but my hormones overrode the brain here plus she is pretty damn attractive physically.

Two days after our first sexual encounter, and one day after she disappeared for the prior evening she mutters something about the guy she had over last night as we proceed to have sex again.  Red Flag that I just ignored.  The muttering left a little doubt in my mind that she might not have said what I thought she said.  She said exactly what I thought she said.

Three days after our first sexual encounter.  She is telling me that I am the love of her life and everything else that they say.  I rationalized this red flag due to the fact that we had known each other so damn long.  I am cutting myself a little slack on this one.  5 days after out first encounter she is telling me how she wants to bear my child.  That kind of creeped me out, and I told her it was premature to be having such conversations, but she insisted it was not.  Yet another 

Let's move out to 10 day into the relationship where she dumps me out of the blue and w/in 36 hours re-engages me using by drawing me back with some super crazy sex.  Yet more, 

This is just a small sample of red flags that I chose to ignore or rationalize.  The scary part for me is that I was fully conscious of these red flags as they happened yet did nothing to protect myself.

Why do we do this?

I think for me it was hormones, wishful thinking, poor self esteem, not having been in a relationship for a while, and the shock and awe factor of the crazy things they say and do.  No matter what the cause of it.  I failed to protect myself and willingly allowed myself into a situation that led to me being physically, verbally, and emotionally abused.

[HostNoMore]

Credit to MindfulJavaJoe for inspiring this topic.  It is also an important and timely topic for me as I enter the second phase of recovery where I focus the laser on myself.

Why did I ignore the red flags?  Why did I rationalize the red flags?

I knew my exBPGgf for 9 years before she enmeshed me into her madness.  I knew she cheated regularly on her exH.  I will freely admit that she and I messed around some before they got married when they were dating.  Is that not a red flag in and of itself? Of course, it is.  I flat out ignored it with full intellectual knowledge of what that implied about her character exclusive of her being a BPD.

Fast forward to when she called me about a year out of being divorced from her shivering husk of an exH (HNM knows why now!), and told me that she wanted a relationship with me.  I went over to her house and within 20 minutes we are having sex.  Red Flag, but my hormones overrode the brain here plus she is pretty damn attractive physically.

Two days after our first sexual encounter, and one day after she disappeared for the prior evening she mutters something about the guy she had over last night as we proceed to have sex again.  Red Flag that I just ignored.  The muttering left a little doubt in my mind that she might not have said what I thought she said.  She said exactly what I thought she said.

Three days after our first sexual encounter.  She is telling me that I am the love of her life and everything else that they say.  I rationalized this red flag due to the fact that we had known each other so damn long.  I am cutting myself a little slack on this one.  5 days after out first encounter she is telling me how she wants to bear my child.  That kind of creeped me out, and I told her it was premature to be having such conversations, but she insisted it was not.  Yet another 

Let's move out to 10 day into the relationship where she dumps me out of the blue and w/in 36 hours re-engages me using by drawing me back with some super crazy sex.  Yet more, 

This is just a small sample of red flags that I chose to ignore or rationalize.  The scary part for me is that I was fully conscious of these red flags as they happened yet did nothing to protect myself.

Why do we do this?

I think for me it was hormones, wishful thinking, poor self esteem, not having been in a relationship for a while, and the shock and awe factor of the crazy things they say and do.  No matter what the cause of it.  I failed to protect myself and willingly allowed myself into a situation that led to me being physically, verbally, and emotionally abused.

[LoveNYC]

Ditto on the shock and awe factor. I was so damned confused half the time, amd sleep-deprived, that I had no idea what was going on.

Additionally, he is from another culture so I wrote a lot of the issues off on cultural differences and expectations.

I was deeply in love and wanted to believe his words were real.

I am young and inexperienced in terms of relationships, so that didn't help.

I am a helper, I could tell he needed it and at times wanted it. My communication skills are excellent and I could see his "push" times as a test. I felt like a mother who holds a tantruming, crying baby.

I am WAY TOO loyal.

[MarshaDole]

When you've been through a few relationships before the one with the BPD, you can feel more confident in your ability to assess people. But BPD is tricky. There are those first few months where everything seems wonderful. My exBF seemed so kind and thoughtful and full of joy to be with me. We had many things in common. The red flags were there, if I look for them when looking back on those first few months. I just interpreted them differently. Instead of someone with a mental illness, I saw someone who had been in a stultifying and somewhat abusive relationship. The first few times he popped off in verbal excessiveness, I attributed it to a "carryover" effect from all the dysfunctional stuff that was going on with his exGF. Our minds can rationalize such things beautifully when we're in love.

[Confuzzled104]

I am in the midst of trying to figure this one out myself...For me my Ex gf displayed almost every sign of BPD for the 3 years I had been with her, yet her family denied it, she denied it and I was left alone taking the brunt of the discourse...before and while with me she would self-mutilate because of strong feelings of emptiness, worthlessness like she was no good.  No matter what I told her was good in her life it never mattered when she was in this state. She always portrayed herself as the victim of her disfunctional family and partly I feel like it is true, certain parts of her family are extremely critical of her but I am not sure if it is a result of her manipulative and depressive behavior. I do not know at this point in my understanding if I should be asking why I failed to see the red flags over how I became so enmeshed and enthralled in this whirlwind of destruction in the first place.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[tailspin]

I believe we ignore the red flags because it's in our best interest.  What were we looking for?  For me it was sex.  The confessions, the bad behavior were irrelevant to the sex.  I got what I asked for and my mistake was asking for more than sex.  My mistake was thinking it could move into intimacy and this was never possible.  His mistake was thinking I was "the one" because there isn't "any one" who will make their pain go away. 

We get exactly what we are looking for; otherwise, we wouldn't be interested, would we.

We do this because it's what we needed.  In many respects they rescued us from ourselves and provided us, for a brief moment in time, the same love we gave.  But it truly was an illusion.  The answer lies in loving our own reflection again without needing someone to project it to us.

[MindfulJavaJoe]

Great thread.

I was naive and emotionally immature that's for sure.
I focused only on the good in people.
I wanted to believe that thing would ultimately be perfect.
I applied my own values and assumed we were on the same page.

All fatally flawed thinking.

[HostNoMore]

Our minds can rationalize such things beautifully when we're in love.

I think that is the crux of the problem for us here.  I rationalized everything away.  However, when I would begin to drift away during the push/pull cycles she would amp up the sex to draw back to her.  After I detached myself and could view her objectively, I noticed how she would use sex as her first up lure to re-engage me. 

I applied my own values and assumed we were on the same page.

I was also very guilty of this too.  I just do not treat people as objects for selfish gratification.  It is totally foreign to my ways of thought.

confident in your ability to assess people. But BPD is tricky.

Mine was HF, and I knew her for 9 years yet I never had an inkling of the true depths of her insanity.  She was always painting her exH black.  Now, looking back with my current knowledge, I can see the BPD aspects in the relationship she had with her exH.  Since BPD is primarily a mental disorder concerning close relationships, it is nearly impossible to ferret one out.  I think it is important for nons to learn how to bail immediately upon recognition of BPD traits like my philandering friend does to his "relationships".  He told me he loves to meet borderlines.

The first time I really knew something was majorly wrong(about 6 weeks into the relationship.  Yes, HNM was that naive.) with her was when her youngest daughter, a toddler, was in a situation that called for the parent to respond with empathy. I noticed my exBPDgf literally had none. I called her out on it, and she admitted she had no empathy.

I was so damned confused half the time, amd sleep-deprived, that I had no idea what was going on.

Same experience here too.  Mine would deprive me of sleep on a chronic basis and leave me no time to myself.  I would say we have classic brainwashing/break down techniques in operation here.  I believe BPDs are highly intuitive and know how to push our buttons.  They operate by constantly keeping us off balance.  If that begins to fail, time to amp up the sex.

I am now beginning to see how and why I let these red flags just run right on past me with no action on my part.  The great thing about BPDs all playing from the same script is that it gives nons a chance to analyze them on this board.

[faithfull]

Great thread.

I was naive and emotionally immature that's for sure.
I focused only on the good in people.
I wanted to believe that thing would ultimately be perfect.
I applied my own values and assumed we were on the same page.

All fatally flawed thinking.

same here.

[notetoself]

That's what's killing me here, trying to detatch. I saw the red flags, no question. And I'm not dumb, I'm in recovery, I've been in therapy. I read, I listen to NPR. I have a degree. Yet I clearly have self-esteem issues. Or something...I really want to use this tragic experience to become a better person.

I think it's very true about hormones. Something about the intimacy, it was different. It was like a drug. I now feel like I'm "detoxing." Not just the sex, the whole thing. Honestly, I think there was something about the suffering, even, that was captivating. It's hard to explain. I don't have the link, but I just read something about how relationships with BPDs create neurochemical reactions that are really the same as addiction.

[mitchell16]

MIne BPDGF caught at a very vulnarable time I was just coming through a major Illness and then a divorce, I saw teh red flags but in the first 5 or 6 months she could easly explain them away or turn them around on me. I think because of my Divorce she was able to convince. But they are very convincing.

[notetoself]

Yeah, I was also coming out of a divorce, I think I was particularly vulnerable and the super-emotional quality of this guy, the intense "passion" just hooked me. But yeah, I suppose I didn't see myself as being very "marketable," a single mom with 2 kids. I felt like, sure I'm attractive, but I come with too much baggage, I'm too vulnerable, not yet together, really.

We have to have confidence! I can tell you guys are really caring  and insightful (like me!), but let's use that caring compassion to foster healthy relationships, true life partnerships. Right? Some of our very FINE qualities made us prone to these situations in the first place, am I right?

[HostNoMore]

Notetoself and mitchell16:

My BPDexgf also caught me at a vulnerable time too.  I was unemployed and in the process of losing a woman with whom I was developing a healthy relationship having to move away due to the bad economy to land a job far, far away.

Of course, up pops my exBPDgf claiming she wanted a "relationship" with me.  I took the bait.

Notetoself: do not ever undersell yourself for having kids.  My exBPD has kids, and it never seems to have ever hurt her abilities to land new hosts.  I also had someone ask me why I'm dating someone with kids as I am childless and in my mid-forties.  I responded with the answer that I would shut myself out of 90% of my potential dating pool if I held that attitude. 

Actually, I miss her kids more than her as they needed a strong male figure in their lives, and they respected me.  There are men who will not hold that against you.  If they do, then good riddance.

[MindfulJavaJoe]

I believe we ignore the red flags because it's in our best interest. 

I think ignoring some   can provide some stabilty in a BPD relationship. If you are drawing attention to every   then you will just end up arguing all the time, this will lead to you being rapidly devalued and replaced.

Having weaked boundaries and ignoring   is key to the logevity of some BPD relationships but it can be disasterous to the ideviduals concerned.

MJJ

[MindfulJavaJoe]

MIne BPDGF caught at a very vulnerable time.

Again when we are vulnerable we are less inclined to hold firm boundaries.

pwBPD/NPD can be relentless in the "hunt". You may never get a momnets rest to clear your head and think to yourself. Having time to yoursel to process your thoughts and your feelings can be important.

You may never have had the time or the chance to say to yourself "this feels crazy".

We let our guard down when we are vulnerable and need to take better care of who we are opening the door to in our lives.

MJJ

[mgl210]

I ignored them bc I love her. I ignored them bc I thought that as long as I showed her love and support that it would get better. That there would be something stable for her to look forward to and she would get over her hump...

[MindfulJavaJoe]

I ignored them bc I love her. I ignored them bc I thought that as long as I showed her love and support that it would get better. That there would be something stable for her to look forward to and she would get over her hump...

From wikipedia:

Borderline personality disorder (BPD), (according to the ICD-10 World Health Organization disease classification, emotionally unstable personality disorder, borderline type), is a personality disorder marked by a prolonged disturbance of personality function, characterized by unusual variability and depth of moods.

Generally without therapy there is no getting over that "hump". The hump just gets bigger and bigger. It is like filling an bottomless bucket of needs.

You were acting without knowlege of what is at the core of BPD.

Your reasoning was flawed in retrospect because you assumed thatr she felt and thought like you do. You did not realise she had a mental health condition.

In retrospect the   were there as a warning. You must have got something out of this relationship for you to WANT to ignore the 

What do you think?

MJJ

[HostNoMore]

MJJ:

This is a good observation:

If you are drawing attention to every  Red Flag then you will just end up arguing all the time, this will lead to you being rapidly devalued and replaced.

Being in a weak position and the above point does make it easy to ignore the flags.  

Mine is a Queen type. One night she blatantly told me that I was going to be her slave forever with her as my dominatrix.  Well, I kind of stood my ground and was condescendingly chided for believing in 50/50 relationships. Hey, I really do.  That triggered a chain of events where she coldly executed a discardment procedure that was incredibly sadistic.  Of course, her current host was in the picture two weeks later.  I'm sure some triangulation (read definition) was going on in the background unknown to me.

[mgl210]

I truly loved her and I still do. Its hard to shut out your heart when you have such a deep feeling towards someone. I really believed that as long as I showed her love and support that was all that she needed. She is getting therapy, but I hate to say it, but I think her T is doing an absolute horrible job at that. This T made me feel dumb for not telling my mom about her, especially since I was the one that was wrongfully charged with DV and luckily the charges got dropped, but the T made it seem like since it was dropped and nothing came of it, that there was no reason to be hesitant on telling my mom.  How does that feel for them apples? Sometimes I just want to call her T and yell at her and be like you know you are enabling her to be the way she is, by being sympathetic and instead you need to tell her that she is hurting people and that she totally destroyed someone innocent in the crossfire, but I don't.

[HostNoMore]

mgl:

Our feelings of love are very strong.  When we get enmeshed with a borderline, our feelings are being used against us as a weapon.

There comes a time, as when Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon, there is no turning back.  My previous post was my crossing the Rubicon moment.  It led to over 5 months of serious emotional distress for me.  This is not an easy task at all.

Would you file false charges against someone you love?   My point is that a BPD cannot love as a normal healthy person would which is how we all ended up posting to this board of fellow victims for support.

Really, there should be no  |> for us to ignore or avoid discussing.

[mgl210]

She and I had gotten into a fight that day. She has a history of self injury and we got into an argument. I told her to just go home. She went home crying. Her father noticed a bruise. Her parents have threatened her in the past that if they knew she was still hurting herself that they would kick her out of her grandmother's house. She didn't say anything, and her father inquired whether it was done by me. She was hurt, and she thought we were definitely over so she didn't say anything. Next thing I know I was getting arrested by my local PD and about four months later, the charges got dropped.

I don't get why her T has to make me feel like I am the bad guy for not telling my mom right away about her... Why can't her T be frank with her and open with her and be like, "yes K, what you did to MGL was wrong. You need to understand why his hesitation. Instead of turning me into the villain...

SIGH