Unfamiliar behavior caused by boundaries; help.

[Think About It...]

Last night my uBPDh really wanted to watch a movie; one of his choosing usually (always; if I bring one home he usually complains that he had "to sit through it"..I don't DARE speak in the same tone about "his movies" as he speaks about the things I like, btw) and always gore or violence or zombies. My son does "not do well" with these types of movies and we have had issues about watching them together before. UBPDh becomes very demanding and controlling telling my son that he cannot leave once the movie starts, cannot hold his hands over his ears, cannot talk during movie, etc...

I told him that he has many movies that I have not yet seen and if he could pick out one that son would most likely sit and watch that we could enjoy together.
He brings a dvd to put into the player and
I asked him "what did you find?".
He said "trust me"...(I could not blindly trust him as he has misrepresented some programs, movies that were VERY violent, scary, etc as "not being very" and that we would like them...more often NOT the case than the case.)
jokingly I replied, "I don't know that movie".
He replied "I have told you about it before".
Looking at him; knowing that he wanted to CONTROL and feeling that it was a "set up" I gently said
"I would feel more comfortable knowing the name of it before we watch it".
He started to put it into the player.
"Please don't start a movie without letting me know what it is; I cannot guarantee that either son or I would like it or sit and watch it"
and then I tilted my head, quizzically, softened my eyes as not to stare or show "challenge". smiled a little with a "what is going on" look on my face. He put it away and said "Well" and he put it back and went to his computer to play his game and did not say anything else to me. I was watching HOUSE and he turned the channel off so I went upstairs, took a bath and came back down to find that he was "still playing" and I said goodnight and went to bed.

I would like to bring up that I WANT my BPDh to be happy, have his way and would have LIKED to have watched the movie BUT I had a need that had to be met. I was NOT apologetic about "saying no" in the way that I did.

His impulsivity and demandingness usually turns into a dysregulated session of yelling about how I do something wrong. This is a FIRST and though he did not articulate respect toward me; he seemed to maintain his dysregulation and set boundaries for himself by NOT talking further about it. I feel good for me; that I stated the boundaries, expected to be respected and even though he chose to withdraw; it is better than him becoming dysregulated...

What do you think? We have our first counseling appointment this coming Friday with a counselor who is DBT therapist and BPD aware. I am "treading lightly" as to not have any dysregulation until then.

[real lady]

Last night my uBPDh really wanted to watch a movie; one of his choosing usually (always; if I bring one home he usually complains that he had "to sit through it"..I don't DARE speak in the same tone about "his movies" as he speaks about the things I like, btw) and always gore or violence or zombies. My son does "not do well" with these types of movies and we have had issues about watching them together before. UBPDh becomes very demanding and controlling telling my son that he cannot leave once the movie starts, cannot hold his hands over his ears, cannot talk during movie, etc...

I told him that he has many movies that I have not yet seen and if he could pick out one that son would most likely sit and watch that we could enjoy together.
He brings a dvd to put into the player and
I asked him "what did you find?".
He said "trust me"...(I could not blindly trust him as he has misrepresented some programs, movies that were VERY violent, scary, etc as "not being very" and that we would like them...more often NOT the case than the case.)
jokingly I replied, "I don't know that movie".
He replied "I have told you about it before".
Looking at him; knowing that he wanted to CONTROL and feeling that it was a "set up" I gently said
"I would feel more comfortable knowing the name of it before we watch it".
He started to put it into the player.
"Please don't start a movie without letting me know what it is; I cannot guarantee that either son or I would like it or sit and watch it"
and then I tilted my head, quizzically, softened my eyes as not to stare or show "challenge". smiled a little with a "what is going on" look on my face. He put it away and said "Well" and he put it back and went to his computer to play his game and did not say anything else to me. I was watching HOUSE and he turned the channel off so I went upstairs, took a bath and came back down to find that he was "still playing" and I said goodnight and went to bed.

I would like to bring up that I WANT my BPDh to be happy, have his way and would have LIKED to have watched the movie BUT I had a need that had to be met. I was NOT apologetic about "saying no" in the way that I did.

His impulsivity and demandingness usually turns into a dysregulated session of yelling about how I do something wrong. This is a FIRST and though he did not articulate respect toward me; he seemed to maintain his dysregulation and set boundaries for himself by NOT talking further about it. I feel good for me; that I stated the boundaries, expected to be respected and even though he chose to withdraw; it is better than him becoming dysregulated...

What do you think? We have our first counseling appointment this coming Friday with a counselor who is DBT therapist and BPD aware. I am "treading lightly" as to not have any dysregulation until then.

[Rose Tiger]

"Please don't start a movie without letting me know what it is; I cannot guarantee that either son or I would like it or sit and watch it"

That took courage.  Well done.  Sometimes we get into only being in reaction mode.  This was an action mode.  This was saying I care about myself and my son.  And staying calm.

My husband is passive/aggressive and will do these sideway things where you aren't sure if you need to take a stand or not, something inside says, yes stand up.  And the codependent side is saying, stop making a big deal out of nothing.  It's breaking past the old voice, that is saying, no!  you're doing it wrong!  And creating new patterns of taking care of yourself.

I know you wish he would of picked out something that all three of you would of enjoyed.  Baby steps.

[united for now]

It feels good to take care of yourself, especially since it was done gently and had a good result  |iiiI



Did you do what you wanted with Your free time?

[real lady]

That took courage.  Well done.  Sometimes we get into only being in reaction mode.  This was an action mode.  This was saying I care about myself and my son.  And staying calm.

THANKS Rose Tiger; it did feel good.

It's breaking past the old voice, that is saying, no.  you're doing it wrong.  And creating new patterns of taking care of yourself.

EXACTLY; I am still learning how to GENTLY ASSERT myself and calmly responding; it does help...A LOT.

I know you wish he would of picked out something that all three of you would of enjoyed.  Baby steps.

It would be nice but I have "left the ball in his court" being that I do NOT find watching TV or movies as priorities; if HE wants us to watch them together, he will learn how NOT to behave. I have made the boundaries clear and done it with love.

[real lady]

Did you do what you wanted with Your free time?

Thanks UFN...yes, I took a leisurely bath, checked on my son and went to bed early. Going on and living my life; he plays his games and just "sits there"...hopefully, one day, he will see ALL THE TIME that he wasted when he could have joyfully been "with us" instead. Until then, it is his "substance" that he is using to soothe himself. I just leave him alone.

[Rose Tiger]

Continue to be strong, he might try to amp things up to get you and your son to watch his movies.  If you can continue to be strong and hold to your boundary, he most likely will come around. 

[real lady]

   thanks RT:
I forgot that I had asked him to play my favorite board game; THREE times before he answered with a resigning "well, if I have to"...who wants to play a game with someone who is "putting up with it"?

He seemed to talk a little easier about some non essential things but he played his game ALL DAY...took my son and puppy to the park. So "I could get away from him"  (and hence justify HIS GAME PLAYING as time spent while he assumed that I "didn't want to be with him"as he says...and I told him he ASSUMED WRONG. ..I told him, he wasn't bothering me in the least, he was playing his game and the boys needed some fresh air and sunshine and so did I... Pointing out IRRATIONAL THINKING and BELIEFS is different from trying to wrestle with feelings.

Last night; I tried again to ask him to play a game WITH me...he gave me the same look and then brought up how I did not watch a movie with him. Since I asked for the movie title; he smart alecky asked for the first 10 words of the game that I was asking if we could play. I told him, you knew the name of the movie and I wanted to know. "You could have trusted me" he said and I carefully (I would have liked to have trusted him but could not) said "well, as you have stated trust is something that is earned  (and he has toldme repeatedly that he does NOT TRUST ME...why should I trust him then?) and I needed to know the movie title. I asked for it and wanted it."

And then I went to bed; EARLY. If nothing else I will get caught up on my sleep while he plays his game until 3 am.

I am walking carefully because he felt "on the edge" all day yesterday. I had to intervene a few times with talk to my son and from my son (seems like he attacks him to get me involved; my son is an aspie (aspergers) and I "interpret" his behavior according to his learning "difference". , laugh once or twice and ignore a few more times to avoid his verbal traps. I feel that the will "vamp it up" because of counseling on Friday. It is not that we need MARITAL counseling but the only way that he will go; he has not truly admitted that HE has a problem. Until he does, I know that he will not take counseling seriously and continue to see me as the fault for his pain.

I am not spending much time with him; he talks and talks about all sorts of things, expects me to know people who are on/were on TV and I just go along with him as if I know about what he is talking about. It is obviously a very one sided "conversation" with him anymore.

[united for now]

That sounds so...empty.
Where are your needs and your desires?

He can play video games all day.
You can find ways to nourish your soul

[real lady]

That sounds so...empty.
Where are your needs and your desires?

Good question>>Any needs and desires that involve him; for the most part, AREN'T being met. I am aware of them and trying to take care of myself in these areas as well. I am trying to "get out more" with new friends, neighbors and gardening.

He can play video games all day.
You can find ways to nourish your soul

Yesterday; he was on his game ALL day. I am working on taking care of my needs DAILY; today I took our puppy to the dog park; alone. I spend time reading and writing and online here and other forums. I talk with friends on the phone. Take my son places. I have a lot of interests and I spend more and more time in them.

   

[briefcase]

It sounds like you are taking care of yourself right now, which is a good starting point.

Have you considered working with a counsellor to help you tackle some of these issues?

[real lady]

 Hi. briefcase; yes I am going to a marital counselor with uBPDh on Friday and will tell him and hubby that I am looking for an individual counselor as well. I feel like I have been battling with depression; sometimes it is just "reality glimpses" of my upBPDh's BPD and needing to ACCEPT his illness.

Overall, he is responding MUCH better and becoming less dysregulated; I still feel he is "on the edge" as he had two yelling outbursts but I would not engage...

 I am maintaining a calm and quiet response with a non threatening visual affect (face countenance). He was almost set off and said that I "berated him" for stated that I did "not get that at the grocery store because I was trying to keep the cost of groceries down". He had told me that we were "spending too much" and I was asking him HOW we could lessen it.

There have been triggering times at bedtime and I have managed to NOT allow "room" for them. I don't say goodnight; I say "I am going to bed"...and up I go. I sleep well, he comes to bed earlier, or has been the past few nights, he gets up earlier and we start the day off better.

[united for now]

Something to consider...

Research has shown that a neutral face is interpreted as threatening by pwBPD.

When they are dysregulated, their emotions are elevated. Our Staying calm freaks them out,  since it reinforces the idea that what they are feeling is wrong. Otherwise, if their feelings were right, we'd be freaking out too. Our neutral faces and mild response sends the implied message, "why is this person making such a scene over nothing?" Make sense?

[united for now]

I seem to be giving negative encouragement here.
Not my intention 

Changing our thoughts and behaviors requires us to really challenge ourselves. We have to ask - and answer - some painful questions.

You are on the right path 

[real lady]

Thanks UFN;
I have read that the "calm" that we express can be misinterpreted by our pwBPD. I can understand it and really have tried to NOT have a "blank" face as I know that WILL be interpreted as I am "p*ssed off" at him even though I am not.

He and I have talked about this and it is in my personality to "be quiet" or even withdraw and for me to "smile" and seem happy ticks him off and to show that I am upset TOO seems to "take his thunder away from him" when he is dysregulated.

In one instance, I was "not responding" as he wanted. I asked him "do you want me to get upset, poop my pants or plead with you to NOT kick me out, I won't do it" and I walked away. I showed a rational, strong and "I will not engage" voice, body language and behavior.

Ever since then, when I am quiet he has learned that he can yell and dysregulate but I am NOT engaging in his anger or argument.

Thanks for the input; maybe it would help me to have it "described a bit more". Maybe I am "doing more of the right thing" but not explaining it clearly...thanks again.

[andywho]

Something to consider...

Research has shown that a neutral face is interpreted as threatening by pwBPD.

When they are dysregulated, their emotions are elevated. Our Staying calm freaks them out,  since it reinforces the idea that what they are feeling is wrong. Otherwise, if their feelings were right, we'd be freaking out too. Our neutral faces and mild response sends the implied message, "why is this person making such a scene over nothing?" Make sense?

This gave me something to think about. I very often get the feeling that she wants me to feel the same way as her. If she experience something that gives her a strong emotion she very often seems surprised that i dont feel the same way. She then might critisise me for not feelin enough.


I remember when my grandfather died she commented that she didnt feel my daughter cared much about him dying as my daughter didnt react according to how my GF's opinion on how one should react when someone dies. Tried to explain her that my daughter also is very said. And that my daughter need to cope with his deqth the way that works best for her. We all cant react the same way.

GF brushed me off saying that my daughter dint care enough.

[Rose Tiger]

Something to consider...

Research has shown that a neutral face is interpreted as threatening by pwBPD.

When they are dysregulated, their emotions are elevated. Our Staying calm freaks them out,  since it reinforces the idea that what they are feeling is wrong. Otherwise, if their feelings were right, we'd be freaking out too. Our neutral faces and mild response sends the implied message, "why is this person making such a scene over nothing?" Make sense?

   I haven't heard this before,  I thought keeping my face unemotional would put it back on him to figure out what he is feeling since for to long I tried to lead him on what to think.  Unintentionally, it was sort of like I did the feelings for both of us, I assumed the way I felt was universal.  Now I know his feelings aren't anything I was assuming.  So I try to keep blank to not color his feelings so they come out.

Is there a better way?

[Steph]

Something to consider...

Research has shown that a neutral face is interpreted as threatening by pwBPD.

When they are dysregulated, their emotions are elevated. Our Staying calm freaks them out,  since it reinforces the idea that what they are feeling is wrong. Otherwise, if their feelings were right, we'd be freaking out too. Our neutral faces and mild response sends the implied message, "why is this person making such a scene over nothing?" Make sense?

   I haven't heard this before,  I thought keeping my face unemotional would put it back on him to figure out what he is feeling since for to long I tried to lead him on what to think.  Unintentionally, it was sort of like I did the feelings for both of us, I assumed the way I felt was universal.  Now I know his feelings aren't anything I was assuming.  So I try to keep blank to not color his feelings so they come out.

Is there a better way?

  As long as someone isnt raging at you, validation is what is needed.

Interest, curiosity, etc are all emotions to show you care and are engaged with him.

If he is raging, the answer is to leave the area..

If he is talking about something and is upset, but not raging, then it makes sense to validate and to otherwise listen.

  Imagine if you are upset about something, and the person you are with is showing you a blank stare..then imagine the same scenario...you are upset,and the person you are speaking with asks questions, offers validation, etc.

Which feels better to you?

  We want to exit when something is abusive. We want to validate when emotions are in play, but arent abusive to you. We want to validate when we listen, instead of explain, justify, defend..


Steph

[Rose Tiger]

Yes, I agree.  I think it's those moments in counselling when I don't know which way he is headed, like those split seconds in time where I am wondering, did he 'hear' that, is he going to become dysregulated, is he going to come close to some inner reflection?  That's where I am looking at the counselor to avoid trying to lead my husband in any direction.

[united for now]

Emotional validation shows you care about how they feel. It offers them reassurance and acceptance. I express my emotions by heightening them, or slightly exaggerating them. Not as much as theirs, but more than I feel. This matching of emotions is a strong way to synchronize to show acceptance.

The body language and verbal tones of friends is interesting to watch. When two people are close,  they mirror each other. If one person leans forward, the other one does too. If one person Crosses their leg, so does the other one. If one person gets passionate and intense on a topic, so does the other one. When questioned later,  each person felt comforted by this behavior. They felt in tune with them.

We can match  emotions, as long as they aren't abusive anger.
Matching emotions shows you are listening and that you care.
Even if you don't agree with 90% of what they say. Focus on the 10% that you can.

[Rose Tiger]

   I do do that a lot with my husband, for sure.  I think it's more when he is struggling with processing something...you know?  Like the wheels are turning but you're not sure which way he is going to go.  Not that he is struggling, it's more like, hate to say it, but when you are watching your toddler about to make a discovery.  You are silently cheering them on but not interrupting their concentration.