Potential New Relationship After BPD & NPD Ex.

[Think About It...]

Hello everyone

I just wanted to run this by you, to get a few opinions.

I am 5/6 months out of my relationship with my BPD & NPD bf.  I am no longer depressed, and have no feelings at all left for my ex.

I have met what would seem to be a lovely man, but I am very worried about building a relationship, because I'm paranoid that I might miss signs and end up dating someone else with a PD!

He has written me several emails over the last week, which seem very honest and caring.  My worry is, that he is quite a romantic person (I am not), and he is very open when expressing his feelings.  He talks about his hopes and dreams (in general), and because of his romantic side, he can come across as a little over the top.  I don't know how to workout what is just our difference in expressing ourselves, and what are red flags!

I have explained the need to take things very slowly, if at all, and he has said that is fine with him.

Here is part of one of the emails.  See what you think:

'I'm happy to take things slow, and spend quality time getting to know you, this can be done via email or telephone, but by far the most preferred method, is by email, or preferably a letter. There's nothing more romantic, than receiving a perfumed letter, from a new romantic interest and taking the time, to read and re-read the letters, and spend time replying. Email and gadgets, whilst important in todays climate, will never replace the quill and ink pen as far as I am concerned.

I have been told I am quite a romantic and thoughtful person at heart, and like nothing better than ensuring my loved ones are happy and content.

I have children and enjoy spending as much time as I can with them...'

Your opinions are very welcome!

JP
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[jessicapuppy]

Hello everyone

I just wanted to run this by you, to get a few opinions.

I am 5/6 months out of my relationship with my BPD & NPD bf.  I am no longer depressed, and have no feelings at all left for my ex.

I have met what would seem to be a lovely man, but I am very worried about building a relationship, because I'm paranoid that I might miss signs and end up dating someone else with a PD!

He has written me several emails over the last week, which seem very honest and caring.  My worry is, that he is quite a romantic person (I am not), and he is very open when expressing his feelings.  He talks about his hopes and dreams (in general), and because of his romantic side, he can come across as a little over the top.  I don't know how to workout what is just our difference in expressing ourselves, and what are red flags!

I have explained the need to take things very slowly, if at all, and he has said that is fine with him.

Here is part of one of the emails.  See what you think:

'I'm happy to take things slow, and spend quality time getting to know you, this can be done via email or telephone, but by far the most preferred method, is by email, or preferably a letter. There's nothing more romantic, than receiving a perfumed letter, from a new romantic interest and taking the time, to read and re-read the letters, and spend time replying. Email and gadgets, whilst important in todays climate, will never replace the quill and ink pen as far as I am concerned.

I have been told I am quite a romantic and thoughtful person at heart, and like nothing better than ensuring my loved ones are happy and content.

I have children and enjoy spending as much time as I can with them...'

Your opinions are very welcome!

JP
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[harmony1]

have you met him?

I am asking because I had a potential who I met online..he loved to text everyday..3 months later I had only seen him 3 times..but I had lost my heart with the texts and letters

he was seeing someone else and said he was spending time with his daughters..

I have since met a very nice man in the past two weeks..seen him 3 times..and he is romantic and respects my boundaries about taking things slow

[jessicapuppy]

Hi there
I'm supposed to be meeting him in a couple of hours. 
I honestly feel like backing out.  I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, or not.
JP
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[harmony1]

Hi there
I'm supposed to be meeting him in a couple of hours. 
I honestly feel like backing out.  I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, or not.
JP
x

I would just take it slow..stay in the moment
put fleas spray on yourself so you dont chase away a good guy (its hard) and if he calls you and most of the time between you is in person , on the phone..it may be all good..if he tries to manage you by text or email..be aware

here is a site about that
baggagereclaim.com

good luck!

[mgl210]

Good luck JP!
I hope this is your happiness...

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT The objective of this board is to learn and apply healthy emotional practices to the rebuilding of our love life. This board is about the discipline and strength of making those hard choices in life for good sustained emotional health. It is about not repeating the problems of the past; it is about understanding the wounds and baggage we carry forward, it is about healthy and practical ways to build new relationships. Click on "more information" for access to the lessons.

[jessicapuppy]

Thanks guys. 

I feel like a total idiot!  I bailed.  I couldn't go through with it.   ?

My circumstances have been hard, for a really long time.  Suddenly I get the opportunity for happiness, and I run away from it!  How mad is that?

I'm going to try to explain my feelings, workshop style, in the hope that it will help me work through this, and anyone else who is going through a similar experience, can perhaps find it useful.

My feelings about going to meet this man:

Intimidation - He is rich

I have never been one to be intimidated by anyone.  This tells me that my self-confidence is not what it once was.  I do not believe that any one is any better or worse than another, because of their material assets. 

Shame - I have lost so many material things over the last few years.  I am embarrassed for him to see my home, my car, even my clothes (although there is nothing realistically wrong with them). 
He has told me that I am beautiful (from photos), and yet I feel far from.  I feel tired and old and worn out.

Pressure - Although he has only seen photos of me, he seems to have put me on a pedestal, and I am frightened I cannot live up to his expectations.

So, now I have let him down, and I feel pathetic.

JP
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[mgl210]

Jp,
While I am far from an expert at this sort of thing and feel your pain, I can sympathize with how you are feeling. I feel the same exact way as you do. I am scared and I don't blame you at all for being scared. If this gentleman has an issue with it, then you know something? he isn't worth it. Any man that is patient and understanding and accepting of the fact that you want to take things slow and accepts that you aren't ready, just isn't worth your time or thought. You aren't an idiot, You are being courteous and respectful and polite. Some people will just jump right back into another relationship bc they are scared of being alone, but you are aware that you aren't ready and that takes guts. I want you to go look at yourself in the mirror and be proud that you didn't mislead yourself or possibly hurt someone in the process. YOu are a great person. never ever lose sight of that

MGL

[jessicapuppy]

Thank you MGL

I really appreciate your comments.  I'm feeling very silly and angry with myself. 

He seems to be being very understanding about my feelings, and I have told him I will contact him later on.

JP
 

[mgl210]

your welcome JP
I hope for the best for you...

MGL

[ellil]

JP, I think you were smart to bail. You listened to your gut. Either it was warning you of something, or it was verifying that you aren't ready to start a new r/s.

I think the email was a bit odd, to tell you the truth. One of the things we came across in boundaries was the other person having boundaries too and not getting too personal in the early stages. It's not like I thought he was being too personal, but he certainly seemed to be setting the stage.

What was wrong with him simply saying, "I would love to continue communicating with you and having coffee sometimes" - but that snail mail perfumed letter stuff? My gut would've been twisting at that one.

 

M

[jessicapuppy]

Hi Ellil

I have to be honest and say that my reaction was similar to yours, about the letter thing.

I'm trying to not to be too judgemental because he has recently lost his mother.  Perhaps he is more highly emotionally charged than normal.  Who knows?

JP
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[ellil]

I'm not sure what bothers me about that email, honestly. I mean I have become absolutely phobic (this is hyperbole here, ) about being with anyone who looks like they want a r/s too badly, and I even am wary about people who call themselves "romantics."

I guess I want practical, let's get together a few times and see if we can like each other as friends BEFORE you call me a romantic interest. That's it I think--how can anyone call us a romantic interest before we even meet and interact with each other?

Relationship stuff is beginning to feel like a lot of hard work. Dating should be fun, not anxiety ridden. 

M

[OTB]

Relationship stuff is beginning to feel like a lot of hard work. Dating should be fun, not anxiety ridden. 

Ellil...I agree totally.  I find myself either second guessing things or reading into things that aren't there.  I want to be confident and secure and find myself not being able   I can relate with you JP.

[jessicapuppy]

Hi Guys

Ellil - I can probably answer the question of why he is already referring to me as a romantic interest, and not a friend...I met him on a dating site!  Thinking I was ready, I regsitered.  This was the first time I've agreed to a date, and...you know the rest 

Thank you for your support everyone.  I'm going to try speaking to him on the phone, and see where that takes us.

JP
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[ellil]

Oh, let us know how it goes! 

M

[jessicapuppy]

Hi guys

Well, I'm quite stunned, actually!  We talked for over 2.5 hours!

He sounds really nice.  He's a very deep person.  He didn't pour out his life history to me, but he was comfortable to talk at length at about anything I wanted to know about him.  He didn't press me for information about myself, but was very keen to listen to whatever I had to say, and to actually engage and EMPATHISE!   Oh my!  I'd forgotten what that was like!   

He's going away on holiday for a week or so, on Wednesday, so that gives me some thinking time.

He's totally happy to let me dictate if and when we meet, and is happy to be a friend to me, if I don't want more.

JP
x

[Cardinals in Flight]

Hey JP
I'm glad you talked, cuz I was thinking maybe from the letter thing he was a woman 

Breathe, go slow, and listen to your good sense! You deserve to be happy, we all do!
CiF
 

[sm15000]

'I'm happy to take things slow, and spend quality time getting to know you, this can be done via email or telephone, but by far the most preferred method, is by email, or preferably a letter. There's nothing more romantic, than receiving a perfumed letter, from a new romantic interest and taking the time, to read and re-read the letters, and spend time replying. Email and gadgets, whilst important in todays climate, will never replace the quill and ink pen as far as I am concerned.

I have been told I am quite a romantic and thoughtful person at heart, and like nothing better than ensuring my loved ones are happy and content.

I have children and enjoy spending as much time as I can with them...'

Personally now that would make me run a mile  ?

[jessicapuppy]

Hi guys

Thank you so much for the feedback.  I feel very lucky to have you here, to run things like this, past.

I can't fathom what's going on here, to be honest.  I have a lot of concerns, but so far, everything he says matches up.  He seems to be very honest, and if he isn't, then he tells me a lot of stuff that don't do him any favours! 

Last night he called me and was on the phone another couple of hours.  Today he's gone to Spain, where there's a big family holiday each year, and he has told me that his wife will be there (separated since 2010).  He didn't have to tell me that, I suppose.

I'm just holding back a fair bit, and will see how things go, before I meet him face to face.

JP
x

[jessicapuppy]

I really don't know what's wrong with me!   ?

I have this potential date, a caring, considerate guy, who just might be worth taking a chance with, and I'm throwing in problems left, right and centre!

Despite my earlier worries, this guy does actually seem genuine.  I've talked everything over with him, and it looks like it really is just me!

Today, I'm so chewed-up at the prospect of actually meeting this guy in the flesh, that I am totally overwhelmed with emotion!  All I can think of is my BPD ex!  I've been great for ages now, but the prospect of dating is throwing up all these emotions and questions!

Has anyone else been through this?  Are my feelings about my ex genuine?   If they are, how do I deal with them, because there's no chance of reconciliation.  Is this just my mind playing tricks on me...wanting to return to the known, rather than take a chance on the unknown?

 

[Cardinals in Flight]

I'm going through similar things right now JP. You are not alone.
Trying really hard to breathe and be open to new possiblities with a seemingly healthy, genuine person.
*Sigh*...will we ever be free?

((JP))

CiF

[jessicapuppy]

It's horrible 

I'm sure that we will get past this, and be happy once again. 

 

[ellil]

I don't think you're overreacting with your concerns, at all as a matter of fact. And I'm not really prone to imagining problems with people and I don't see BPD everywhere.

As far as mentioning the wife--why still only separated? And really, why did he bring it up? I did discover when my exBPD brought up something that he really didn't have to, there was a reason and I always became suspicious, and my suspicions were never unfounded.

Just keep your antennae up, have fun but don't ignore any flags. If you're interested in him, take your time, post your concerns (or just post and keep us in the loop because we're interested, ). The great thing about dating is you get to have fun, you get to meet someone new, and if it works out, you get to be in a relationship--no decisions are required, especially in the early days!

 

M

[jessicapuppy]

Yes, and I need to remember that, because this guy had me almost feeling obliged!  xx

[ibelieveinus]

Keep posting we seem to have a similar situation here. I'd live to pm or at least hear how all this turns out for you.

[jessicapuppy]

Well...I haven't met with this new guy I've been posting about, yet, but I did end up sleeping with my (male) good friend!

Not perhaps ideal, I thought about my exBPD/NPD bf initially and even shed a tear, as all of the guilt went through my mind, as if I were still together with him and this would be cheating.

Then, I decided that I had to push him out of my mind.  It's been almost 6 months!   I needed comfort, and we'd both had a drink.  So, the rest is obvious.

I feel as if this has helped me move on a little!  Why should I be hanging around for this man who discarded me?  I feel stronger, somehow.

I think I may have another little problem, though!  I think the friend I slept with, may be secretly holding a torch for me    I had thought it was no strings...oops!

JP
x

[Mystic]

I tend to think no strings is pretty rare, JP.  Generally someone in the tango has more going on their mind than a casual roll. 

As for the new guy, "still married" would have been the dealbreaker for me.  Well at least the dealbreaker leading to the  "how 'bout you call me when you're not married anymore." discussion.  Relationship wise, people need to put their stuff in order before they start new stuff. 

If you're not divorced, you're married, whether separated or not.  That's a powerful bond in many ways, no matter what the circumstances.  There are likely legal, emotional and financial issues involved (any or all of the above), issues that a new person in r/s to either party shouldn't have to deal with.  They color the new relationship and put unhealthy burdens on it. 

As for the wonderful, deep, empathetic conversation, that's good, but don't pin too much on it.  Heck, my BPD/npd ex and I had many of those sort of conversations in the early months.  The only way to learn about who a person is, is by listening carefully when they tell you who they are (they will), and by observing their behavior over time. 

Not looking to be Debbie Downer here, just telling you to keep your eyes open and be careful. 

[jessicapuppy]

Yes, that all makes good sense to me  

I am wondering if the new bloke has narcissistic traits, or if he's just trying to impress me with boasting.  Def. going slow on this one!

As for my friend, well...I think you are probably right.  One party is always more into the other.  What happened between us certainly wasn't planned!

JP
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[2010]

'I'm happy to take things slow, and spend quality time getting to know you, this can be done via email or telephone, but by far the most preferred method, is by email, or preferably a letter. There's nothing more romantic, than receiving a perfumed letter, from a new romantic interest and taking the time, to read and re-read the letters, and spend time replying. Email and gadgets, whilst important in todays climate, will never replace the quill and ink pen as far as I am concerned.

He's married, sitting at home sucking off his hurts at a computer screen and waiting for you to take the fantasy bait. In the meantime you've chosen a way to put some distance between his advances by complicating your life with a new dalliance- one that you feel may be more serious than you desire which scares you into the possibility of putting up a wall against further advances. This may be an attempt to uncomplicate things with no strings attached but it merely serves to complicate your life even more.

There are three people here. Two appear emotionally available on the surface and one desires a deeper connection. Is it possible that you can see where you lean and that your attraction to the surface fantasy is only a way to remain in control of your fears of getting hurt?

[jessicapuppy]

I have no idea where I lean.  Being intimate with my friend was not planned, at all. 

I don't have a plan, nor a goal.  I slept with my friend because he's been there a lot for me recently, we'd both had a drink, and I was feeling lonely. 

I'd like to have more insight, but I don't right now.

As for the separated bloke, he's quite into me meeting his family, including his soon to be ex-wife.

[MaybeSo]

I want to support the reality that a person who is not yet divorced, indeed, divorced and at least a year post divorce, is not available for a relationship. A divorce is a messy and big happening, even if the two are amicable. It involves so much work to separate and detach on so many levels. I dont care the rationalizations or excuses people might offer, it's never simple or easy.  I started seeing my ex w/NPD/BPD while he was separated, oh it was all just fine and dandy, they were just two people who had grown apart but were still friends, it was going to be a quick and painless divorce. Omg, three years later he was still just separated, not divorced. It was of course not painless. It was a nightmare. I let his charming personna steer me off course, my original value system was that I do not date anyone not yet at least 1 year past a finalized divorce. I think overall it speaks to my own ambivalence about wanting something real; I too was emotionally unavailAble for a real relationship. my suggestion is this: your fear of falling prey to another personality disordered person is a symptom that you need more time to understand yourself, first. If we are confused about what we want we will attract a similarly confused person. The work resides inside of us, it's not about being excellent at reading signs outside of us.

[jessicapuppy]

Hi there Maybeso

Thank you for your advice.  I intend to give it a lot of thought.

Last week my ex BPD/NPD bf came to collect his belongings.  I have never wanted to hug him so much.  He walked in as if everything was normal.  We chatted for 30 mins, and his father waited outside for him in the van (my ex doesn't have a car right now).   Even seeing his father was incredibly painful.  I miss all of them so much.  I was still so attracted to my ex.

I have so many things that just don't make sense.  Good days and bad days, but deep down, just at a total loss as to the waste.  The good days are really good.  I don't think of him and if I have to think of him (work related) then I can manage to do so without much sadness.  This recent meeting with him  has stirred up quite a bit of healed territory.

JP
x

[kimbers43]

Intimidation - He is rich

I have never been one to be intimidated by anyone.  This tells me that my self-confidence is not what it once was.  I do not believe that any one is any better or worse than another, because of their material assets. 

Shame - I have lost so many material things over the last few years.  I am embarrassed for him to see my home, my car, even my clothes (although there is nothing realistically wrong with them). 
He has told me that I am beautiful (from photos), and yet I feel far from.  I feel tired and old and worn out.

Pressure - Although he has only seen photos of me, he seems to have put me on a pedestal, and I am frightened I cannot live up to his expectations.


Just wanted to agree with what you put above. I feel the same when i am looking to meet someone new and the above put me off doing it. I do hope things work out for you.

 

[MaybeSo]

Excellent article on this topic, with excellent advice. A years worth of therapy, free.

http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/do-you-want-to-be-with-an-emotionally-available-person-be-emotionally-available-yourself/

[jessicapuppy]

Yes, I'm a big fan of that site

[mgl210]

I admit i think even if I was over my ex and the whole situation, i would still be scared to be involved ever again and have such high emotions like I once did...That is just me though

[jessicapuppy]

MGL210

Personally, I think there'd be something wrong, if you didn't learn from your experiences and take more time to give yourself to someone fully.

I do think that in time, you need to be able to trust and put your whole self into a relationship, in order to be happy and make your partner happy.  I just think that it's natural to have reservations and be more cautious, otherwise, what did you learn?

JP
X

[Joseph54]

Could it be that you are growing and coming to an emotional crossroad in your life. Are you beginning to trust someone else the same way you trusted the ex BPD and were hurt. You may be at the doorstep of that hurt or event when you last let yourself be vulnerable.

If so it is a great opportunity for you to push through old hurts (face the hurt and grieve it) and grow then become a better person with a fuller life.

Why not meet? but be careful to continue on your road of being cautious one step at a time.

Joe

[jessicapuppy]

Hi there

I just thought I'd give an update to this thread, although I'll probably start another as things progress.

Yesterday my estranged SO contacted me to say he misses me.  The first time in the 6 months since we broke-up.

I have no idea if this will be a recycle attempt.

For the first time I felt he was able to take on board the truth about what he has done to me over the last 6 months.  So, I told him...pretty abruptly, too, as I had PMT!   

It certainly seems to have been absorbed, because his mood has switched from NPD to BPD and he is avoiding me now and has gone very quiet.  When he has his NPD head on, he'll argue etc.

I couldn't help but be honest with him.  He contacted me so full of narcissism, about how good he was at this, that and the other, and how he never gives up on anything, and has such will and determination, so I just said, 'Well you gave up on a perfectly good relationship!'.  That's how the conversation went that way.

So...who knows what's next.  Suppose it will depend which of the two frames of mind he is in on any given day. 

I have a date on Wednesday with the original guy I posted about, on here.  So I'll update then.

Thank you for all the advice and support!   

JP
x

[jessicapuppy]

Just wanted to update about this potential new relationship.

Something's just not quite right, so I'm going with my gut feeling, and paying attention!

I hope I'm not jumping to conclusions due to previous bad experiences!

We met and had a great date.   I did worry slightly, as it seemed that he wasn't totally in the moment.  He seemed a bit distant and I found myself having to repeat things.

Twice since then, he's suggested meeting on a certain day.  I've confirmed and then the day comes and goes without him coming back with a time to meet or even a memory that he suggested it in the first place!

Today he didn't reply to a text, which is unlike him, but I didn't think anything of it, until he started emailing me late at night, stating his phone was on charge and he couldn't read texts.  We all know you can see texts when a phone is on charge, and I was getting a delivery report.  I later found out he'd managed to log on to the dating site we originally met on, despite apparently being ill in bed all day, too!

Sometimes I think we just have to go with our gut feelings...

 

JP
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[ellil]

Geez, I don't think you're "jumping to conclusions due to previous bad experiences." What you described here are hard-core no-no's in the dating r/s world. Not paying attention on a date (I once had a date like that and I actually laughed out loud in the middle of it recognizing how disinterested this guy was), not following through on suggested dates, not replying to texts (which of course he doesn't have to reply to every single text within a certain time frame) and then lying about not getting texts (since you have the delivery confirmation), plus he thinks you're stupid and don't know about charging cells/receiving texts, and the biggie: logged back into the dreaded dating site when he was supposed to be sick.

Girlfriend, this one doesn't seem to be a keeper. You're better than that.

The more I read here, the more I think dating sites are pd breeding grounds.

 

M

[jessicapuppy]

Ha ha...i think you're right.  Luckily, I can see the funny side     I deliberately didn't take him too seriously, and intended to wait and see as time went on.  I felt pretty good to be in control, though.  Just to have the strength and decision making ability, to say, "You're not being honest with me.  I don't deserve being lied to, so have a nice life', was quite empowering, in a strange way!  The sort of thing I should have done with my BPD ex, long before I did do!

Thank you for confirming I'm not over-reacting 

xxx