clothing question

[Think About It...]

  Would anyone have any theories? My son is 6, my daughter 3. My higher functioning uBPDexw insists on buying shoes 2-3 sizes too large for the kids. Started only with son. Some clothes 3-5 sizes too big. Once sz 14 underwear! Always the shoes. Almost all clothes for him 2nd hand. Daughter fine till now. Her shoes now 2 sizes too big.
  Boy bruised all the time from tripping and falling. No longer likes soccer cause running.
  What in the world is her ill subconscious seeing? 

[blackpowder]

  Would anyone have any theories? My son is 6, my daughter 3. My higher functioning uBPDexw insists on buying shoes 2-3 sizes too large for the kids. Started only with son. Some clothes 3-5 sizes too big. Once sz 14 underwear! Always the shoes. Almost all clothes for him 2nd hand. Daughter fine till now. Her shoes now 2 sizes too big.
  Boy bruised all the time from tripping and falling. No longer likes soccer cause running.
  What in the world is her ill subconscious seeing? 

[david]

My stbxBPDw doesn't buy our boys shoes and when I pick them up the youngest has clothes too small. Our S13 dresses himself so there is no problem there. Our S9 just does what his mom says to avoid her anger. I am working with him on that.
I think it is a way to engage with me. She wants me to say something or send an email about it. My T told me a while back that negative engagement is still engagement. I ignore everything from her. I bought both boys shoes recently. She was ticked off that I did without consulting her. She actually yelled at S9 but I had already told him to blame me for it. I told him to tell her that I flipped out on him and said he had to wear the new shoes. That calmed him down. His other shoes were literally falling apart. His perception was spot on since she did get angry at them anyway.  Bpd will never make sense to me and I am grateful for that.

[Matt]

Sounds like trying to save money.  Buying clothes that are too big means he won't grow out of them soon.

Your only option is probably to buy him clothes the right sizes.  Take him with you to buy them, and let him try them on to make sure they're right.

Keep in mind that cotton t-shirts will shrink in a hot dryer.  If you buy them the right size, and you're careful not to put them in a hot dryer, his mom might do that, on purpose or not, and then they will be too small.  Maybe you can figure out how to always wash them and keep them at your house so she doesn't do that.  Or just realize it will happen and you'll need to replace them soon.

Within a few years, you can put him in charge of his own clothes - teach him to use the washer and dryer - and he can do that without shrinking cotton shirts.  The sooner you can empower him like that, and take away his mom's control over what he wears, the better.

(Yesterday I gave my son a birthday present - a t-shirt with Einstein on it - and he really liked it.  I got it one size too big on purpose - kids wear them pretty big now - and reminded him about the dryer - "If you want it to be a little smaller, go ahead and put it in the dryer on hot.  Or if you want it this size, don't do that."  He wore it to school today, without shrinking it, so I guess it's OK.)

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[david]

Another thing to realize. My BPDw ran away 4 plus years ago and emptied our house of everything. It took two weeks before I got to see our two boys. I realized a few days beforehand that I didn't have any of their clothes. I called my atty , she contacted her atty, money, money, etc... Bpdw's atty insisted I was lying. A few hours before picking the boys up for the first time ( McDonalds parking lot ) I received a call from my atty saying that BPDw "confessed" to having all the boys clothes and that I would be getting some when I picked them up. I received three bags. A third was trash but I did get some clothes. I went to a Walmart that was closing and purchased everything that fit them. The shopping cart was overflowing. A month or two later I realized all the new clothes were gone and all I had were clothes that didn't fit or had holes in them. I now have the boys wear the same clothes they came with when I pick them up.

[Matt]

Another thing to realize. My BPDw ran away 4 plus years ago and emptied our house of everything. It took two weeks before I got to see our two boys. I realized a few days beforehand that I didn't have any of their clothes. I called my atty , she contacted her atty, money, money, etc... Bpdw's atty insisted I was lying. A few hours before picking the boys up for the first time ( McDonalds parking lot ) I received a call from my atty saying that BPDw "confessed" to having all the boys clothes and that I would be getting some when I picked them up. I received three bags. A third was trash but I did get some clothes. I went to a Walmart that was closing and purchased everything that fit them. The shopping cart was overflowing. A month or two later I realized all the new clothes were gone and all I had were clothes that didn't fit or had holes in them. I now have the boys wear the same clothes they came with when I pick them up.

Lots of our members have similar stories - clothes migrating from one home to the other and never coming back.

For small kids, you can fix this (somewhat) by sending them to the other house in the clothes they came over in, and keeping the rest of the clothes you buy them in your house.  So when they come back, all their clothes will be clean and dry and put away nicely.  One more reason they'll like coming over.

For bigger kids, that won't work, because they'll pack their favorite clothes wherever they go.  Then you have to put the kids in charge of their clothes:  "You can take whatever clothes you want to Mom's house, but you need to bring them back every time."

[david]

Ditto with what Matt said. Our boys are 13 and 9. Four years ago I had to keep an eye on their clothes. Today, I still help S9. S13 talkes care of his clothes and personal things by himself. Another year or two and S9 will be able to take care of things himself too. What I have noticed in both boys is that the things they value are all with me. They have discovered that mom will take things from them or even throw things out because she decided that was what she was going to do without their input. Those are the areas that BPDmom can not deal with because she would not be in control. The control thing with her is what drives a lot of her actions. It only alienates people but that is her issue.

[blackpowder]

    Thank you everyone.
  The saving money fits her hermit mother profile. One thought was she was trying to 'grow' them faster.  I was afraid to create friction for the children by doing anything.
  Perhaps I will have shoes etc. here for them, and leave the choice to them.
  I keep seeing all the bad that could happen. But I have to start standing up for the kids.
  Your point about control might also be relevant. Her insistence on homedone Picasso like haircuts vey short, allows her control, and denial of same to myself or the kids.
   

[tog]

My SO's stbx does the same thing with shoes...buys them too big. In her case, I think it's because she gets them online, as she does all of his clothes. In a rare moment of karma for her, he tripped over his giant shoes and broke his school-issued iPad when he fell. She had to pay for it, since she insisted on the private school and pays all tuition.  

It never ceases amaze me that she holds herself up as MOTY, but can't go shopping with the kid instead of buying everything online.  It's just laziness, if you ask me, in her case. She tends to buy shoes that are way more expensive than necessary, so it's not the money.

[blackpowder]

  My wife also seems 'lazy'. Certainly minimal housework. Hard for her to do anything for someone else. Shopping for someone else would be a 'favor'.
  Buying 'only the best' could fit for a "Queen" mother profile.
 I enjoyed the book 'Understanding Borderline Mothers'.
   Lots of relevant stuff for me.
  Definitely helpful to know the clothing issue is not unique. Thank you all.

[tog]

Yes, my SO's stbxw definitely fits the Queen profile, too. She spends all kinds of money impulsively on vacations but has rarely paid for the boy to get haircut. She pays for his private school tuition because it feeds her narcissism to hang around his school and play MOTY, but she won't pay for summer camps. It's weird to me because you would think she would want him to look good so she looked like MOTY, but there's some kind of disconnect there. He looks like an urchin half the time.

[david]

Picked the boys up this morning for the week. S13 dresses himself so that is never a problem anymore. He came out in shorts and a light shirt. S9 came out of her place with long pants that were too short and a long sleeve shirt. It is too warm for that right now but that is the nature of the beast.    S9 got in the car and said he can't believe his mom "made me wear this stuff because it is not cold." I told him he could change as soon as we got home. Just more passive/aggressive bs from their mom. All she is doing is pushing them further away.

[Matt]

S13 dresses himself so that is never a problem anymore.

This is the key.  The sooner the kids step up and dress themselves the better things will work.  Even 9 isn't too young, but it may take some time for a nine-year-old to get past his mom's intimidation and dress himself, and not allow himself to be bullied into wearing things that are inappropriate.

I'm not a professional in this field but I bet there are similarities between this phenomenon and Munchausen by proxy.

[david]

I'm patiently working with S9 and him deciding things he can decide on his own. Just part of parenting but with more attention on my part. My BPDw is a nurse and I have gotten vibes in the past that she has munchasen. She loves the attention when the children are "sick" and she is the only one that can take care of them since I am not a nurse. I don't react to her nonsense. I have questioned her about particular medical things with the kids and have found that she has difficulty explaining. I have friends that are docs and also SS's that are nurses so I can talk the talk.

[Matt]

Various ways to keep the kids dependent and stay in control.

I miss when mine were little and I could pick them up and carry them.  I can understand any parent enjoying the feeling of being needed.  Most of us recognize that tendency and keep it in check, and take pride in our kids' growth and competence.  These clothes issues look the opposite - keeping the kids in their place and not letting them have control over their own appearance.

When he was about 8, my nephew wanted his hair kind of short but with a long "rat-tail" in the back.  It looked horrible.  I talked with my sister and BIL, who both agreed it looked horrible, but said, "It's his hair and we think it's best if we let him decide how he wants it."  After a year or so he decided to cut off the "rat-tail".  Now he's about 15, very creative and confident.  I think they were absolutely right - letting kids make their own decisions about their appearance, within limits, is probably usually a very good thing, even if they make some bad choices in the short term...

[hell0kitty]

I read this and thought, wow!  and then today, as if BPDex read it too as a "what to do if you are BPD" she pulled something very similar. 

Picked up kiddo at school today.  BPDmom sent child (6) to school with no socks, no underwear and pants that were about 3 sizes too big and no belt.  She could not walk without dropping trousers.  She had to hold them up all day and was pretty mortified about it by the time she was picked up.

This is just after she sent us a demand letter for a return of clothing that we do not have of hers.  We actually started a check list of things sent to and from mom's house early this year, because these demand letters are too frequent, and part of her cycles.  So anything sent to our home gets logged in the day it arrives and logged out on the day it leaves.  Anything she accuses us of having we can just send the list. This REALLY upset her as she had no way to argue.

I wonder if this is her way of "getting us back" for keeping a list?  I just felt so bad for the child.  How embarrassing to spend a full day with pants that wont stay up and no underwear.  What do you even do or say about this?  Poor kid. 

[Matt]

Maybe you could tell the child, the teacher, and the school counselor that you would be glad to bring good clothes to school any time this happens.

Or maybe you can leave some clothes at the school for her to change into, and then change back when she goes home.

It's cruel.  There must be a way to help so D6 won't have to put up with this anymore.

[hell0kitty]

School is out at the end of this week, but I think that having a spare outfit kept at school for her is a great idea. Thanks! I think maybe something comfy, like a track suit and a spare pair of socks and undies to be kept in her cubby in case of an emergency.  She is still young enough to where all sorts of "emergencies" come up, so I'm sure a teacher would not think twice about keeping a spare set of clothes. Starting the school year next year, we will make sure we set this up right away.  Thanks for the idea!

[Matt]

School is out at the end of this week, but I think that having a spare outfit kept at school for her is a great idea. Thanks! I think maybe something comfy, like a track suit and a spare pair of socks and undies to be kept in her cubby in case of an emergency.  She is still young enough to where all sorts of "emergencies" come up, so I'm sure a teacher would not think twice about keeping a spare set of clothes. Starting the school year next year, we will make sure we set this up right away.  Thanks for the idea!

Teachers and school counselors deal with lots of problems, and it's their job to help kids with problems.  Even just keeping a spare pair of underwear in case of accidents seems like a no-brainer, and in her case a whole set of clothes - they'll surely offer some ideas to help.

[david]

I think that would be the school nurses job. Also, document these events. You never know if you will need them in the future.

[hell0kitty]

This just gets weirder. Today was the kids "graduation ceremony" BPD was there. Guess what she was wearing? Pants that were obviously way too big, no belt and no underwear.  She kept loosing her britches and giving a half moon, that is how we knew there were no undies.   Is this a trend with her? SO strange.

If I had to guess, I'd guess he has not been doing laundry or her house is so trashed she cant find anything.

(When I say SHE was wearing, I mean that is how BPD dressed herself today! We dressed the kiddo today, so she looked good for graduation!)