how can I not care what happens with his next r/s?

[Think About It...]

Hi folks.  Need some deep re-orientation here.

My pwBPDexbf has been seeing the woman he dated before me, since shortly after we decided (I thought) not to try again to be together, since he had obvious intimacy issues and was (I thought) going to examine them in therapy before plunging back in with me and likely (according to his therapist & me) hurting me again.  Instead of doing that work, he almost immediately honed in on the former girlfriend, who was not over him, and began to persuade her that he had been pining for her ever since they parted ways over a year before.  According to the story he told her (I know this from a mutual friend), there was no one of significance since he'd dated her the first time -- no other women could hold a candle to her.

Of course this is the same story he told me -- that she was just a friend who was more into him than he could reciprocate, that he had had to maintain boundaries there; and that there had never been anyone like me.

Anyway.  It's been very hard for me to deal with the fact that he came to me, said he wanted to get back together, then backed out when I said (basically) yes, on the grounds that maybe he needed to be alone and examine his issues, and then immediately began pursuing the former gf.  On the heels of his first breakup with me out of nowhere, this second betrayal has been even harder to understand & process somehow.  You know -- was I not worth digging into these issues?  Why would he go deal with her & the immense compatibility issues they have (whether to have kids, religious differences, huge age difference, class differences that bother him) rather than just address the core intimacy problems that seemed to be what blew things up with us?  The mutual friend let me know a while ago that she had required him to agree to certain conditions to pursue the relationship, about kids & religion, and he had agreed, which really sent me into a tailspin.

I've been strictly NC for many months, and generally have organized things so my friends do not fill me in on such things, but the old/new gf works with me (as he used to), so it has been hard to avoid inklings of what is up with them.  She has seemed incandescently happy (I remember that feeling well -- it was mine a year ago).  And a couple of weeks ago, I learned they were at a music festival we attended last year -- very hurtful.

These vague inklings now suggest, however, that all is not well with them.  If I had to guess, I'd guess he has pulled the rug out from under her.  Of course, I could be mis-reading the tea leaves.  Also, he tends not to go away, so they could be off-on for a very long time.

Nonetheless, the idea that they might be over was a huge relief to me.  It soothed that tortured feeling that so many of us seem to experience, that by some miracle this person who treated us so poorly might transform himself or herself into someone capable of loving someone else, and would make the effort, make the necessary compromises, with the next partner, somehow mocking us or making us seem like the problem.  I guess somehow confirming the pwBPD narrative that the problem is not them, it's that they just need to get with the right partner.

However. After that momentary relief, I felt this sort of sick feeling, realizing for the first time that it really doesn't matter whether they are on or off, for me.  Because I could never now go back to him.  He will now always be someone who went from me being the love of his life, etc., etc., to me not existing and this other woman being the love of his life, all he'd ever been searching for, etc., etc., within the space of a few months.  I could never go back.  So why does it matter?

And yet it still feels like it does.  Somehow I need things not to go OK with them.  And of course this puts me in a ridiculously vulnerable position, because I cannot control what happens with them.  I need to be on the same path regardless of whether things implode with them and stay imploded. I need not to draw self-worth lessons from what happens with them.  I need to somehow internalize at an emotional level what I know consciously, which is that this really has very little to do with her or with me ... it's just so hard, because his story is so seductive, so believable, and so intensely personal.  It was with me, and I know it is with her.  Even imagining what he must have said to her the past few months is excruciating.

Frameworks?  Corrections?  How did you do this -- how did you manage, or are you managing, not to care what happens with your ex and the next person he or she takes up with?

[patientandclear]

Hi folks.  Need some deep re-orientation here.

My pwBPDexbf has been seeing the woman he dated before me, since shortly after we decided (I thought) not to try again to be together, since he had obvious intimacy issues and was (I thought) going to examine them in therapy before plunging back in with me and likely (according to his therapist & me) hurting me again.  Instead of doing that work, he almost immediately honed in on the former girlfriend, who was not over him, and began to persuade her that he had been pining for her ever since they parted ways over a year before.  According to the story he told her (I know this from a mutual friend), there was no one of significance since he'd dated her the first time -- no other women could hold a candle to her.

Of course this is the same story he told me -- that she was just a friend who was more into him than he could reciprocate, that he had had to maintain boundaries there; and that there had never been anyone like me.

Anyway.  It's been very hard for me to deal with the fact that he came to me, said he wanted to get back together, then backed out when I said (basically) yes, on the grounds that maybe he needed to be alone and examine his issues, and then immediately began pursuing the former gf.  On the heels of his first breakup with me out of nowhere, this second betrayal has been even harder to understand & process somehow.  You know -- was I not worth digging into these issues?  Why would he go deal with her & the immense compatibility issues they have (whether to have kids, religious differences, huge age difference, class differences that bother him) rather than just address the core intimacy problems that seemed to be what blew things up with us?  The mutual friend let me know a while ago that she had required him to agree to certain conditions to pursue the relationship, about kids & religion, and he had agreed, which really sent me into a tailspin.

I've been strictly NC for many months, and generally have organized things so my friends do not fill me in on such things, but the old/new gf works with me (as he used to), so it has been hard to avoid inklings of what is up with them.  She has seemed incandescently happy (I remember that feeling well -- it was mine a year ago).  And a couple of weeks ago, I learned they were at a music festival we attended last year -- very hurtful.

These vague inklings now suggest, however, that all is not well with them.  If I had to guess, I'd guess he has pulled the rug out from under her.  Of course, I could be mis-reading the tea leaves.  Also, he tends not to go away, so they could be off-on for a very long time.

Nonetheless, the idea that they might be over was a huge relief to me.  It soothed that tortured feeling that so many of us seem to experience, that by some miracle this person who treated us so poorly might transform himself or herself into someone capable of loving someone else, and would make the effort, make the necessary compromises, with the next partner, somehow mocking us or making us seem like the problem.  I guess somehow confirming the pwBPD narrative that the problem is not them, it's that they just need to get with the right partner.

However. After that momentary relief, I felt this sort of sick feeling, realizing for the first time that it really doesn't matter whether they are on or off, for me.  Because I could never now go back to him.  He will now always be someone who went from me being the love of his life, etc., etc., to me not existing and this other woman being the love of his life, all he'd ever been searching for, etc., etc., within the space of a few months.  I could never go back.  So why does it matter?

And yet it still feels like it does.  Somehow I need things not to go OK with them.  And of course this puts me in a ridiculously vulnerable position, because I cannot control what happens with them.  I need to be on the same path regardless of whether things implode with them and stay imploded. I need not to draw self-worth lessons from what happens with them.  I need to somehow internalize at an emotional level what I know consciously, which is that this really has very little to do with her or with me ... it's just so hard, because his story is so seductive, so believable, and so intensely personal.  It was with me, and I know it is with her.  Even imagining what he must have said to her the past few months is excruciating.

Frameworks?  Corrections?  How did you do this -- how did you manage, or are you managing, not to care what happens with your ex and the next person he or she takes up with?

[GP44]

I struggle with this as well. I'm 20 months out, been in NC since pretty much the beginning, so I actually don't know what her love life consists of, but I'd guess there's a 70 percent chance she's with somebody at this point. Of course I had my suspicions about being replaced and so forth, but I've never discovered any concrete evidence of it. The few times I've cyberpeeked don't offer any clues one way or the other. Our last six months together, her profile picture on facebook was us posing together. The few times I've peeked, I've never seen anything like that with another guy, but that doesn't mean anything one way or the other. Suffice to say, enough time has passed that I assume she's most likely with somebody else at this point.

I think our mind and our hearts tug us in such different directions. Our minds tell us that our exes have major emotional problems and one of them is that they have trouble sustaining relationships, but on an emotional level, we take things so personally and assume this was about us, when in fact it was about them and their issues.

What I've been told is that they did not save their bad behavior just for us, and we should never compare our insides to somebody else's outsides. We shouldn't care what happens to their love lives after us, but that is easier said than done. Not that we actively wish them ill, but if their relationships keep failing after us it gives us validation that it wasn't us. I'm in Al-Anon. For these kinds of things, it's just something we have no control over, and we need to turn it over to our higher power. It's really best to let fate sort it out and leave them to face their own music, whatever that may be.

[redfeather]

Patient and clear,
You make several good points. One that resonates with me is that your ex much like mine has a great "STORY" like in fairytale, make believe, children playing at being adults.
The other thing that strikes me in your post is indeed why is your self worth tied up in any way shape or form with what happens within their relationship?
Your self worth resides in you and is your creation. The other woman's happiness will be short lived if not already in the death spiral that is a given.
The way I ended my incessant thoughts of its was my fault, she found better, i wasnt's pretty enough, young enough, wealthy enough, smart enough blah blah blah  (had a long list) is I just stopped. Stopped the ruminations in my mind that caused me to put myself down and put my (now GONE) replacement on a pedestal. I found I was wasting my time which is too precious to waste on people who are so emotionally immature they just DUMP US and leave? Really?
I want no more of that ever from anyone. I guess in a nutshell when your mind wanders to the scripts you must play out to get to the outcome of: Is she better than me or whatever, then just turn your thoughts into another direction. That is what I do.

[lessonslearned]

HI P&C

I'm struggling with this today as well. Here's the equation: If the replacement lasts longer than X number of months, that would prove that I MUST have been the one that F'd up, and therefore she must have been RIGHT about me and her reasons for leaving, and therefore I lost a good thing because of something that's wrong with me.

In other words, a lot is hanging on their success, or lack thereof.

As I write this I realize that I, deep down, feel that I MUST deserve abandonment, and that something I DID must be the cause - and my guy tells me that pre-dates this BPD r/s by most of my years on the planet - in other words - my childhood.

That's where I'm going to dig.

I think you have your answers - you have the lists, the facts, the truth, and you've heard the lies, the distortions and the seductive story telling that your ex played out with both of you. Even more-so, you have your gut sense.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[luckystrikes]

hi p and c  

first things first. its very clear to me that in this equation, though it may not be clear to you, and may not feel that way, youre quite obviously the strong one. think about it. youre not the mentally ill one, youre not the one foolishly taking him back, and foolishly experiencing that oh so temporary "happiness" you see her expressing. so, i think thats invaluable, and ought to make you feel better in this. you may hurt, understandably, but youre the one shaking your head at the madness. id encourage you to visualize that (mental images helped me a ton in my recovery), it will be, at worst, temporarily empowering, at best, permanently. but as an outsider, this is the image that i get. youre hurting, dealing with complicated feelings, but you have a demonstrated ability to do so. youre the strong one.

i can tell you matter of factly, though its not something to celebrate exactly, shes likely got even worse than you in store for her. i believe each relationship compounds the crazy. hes already dealt with her, shes already triggered him, on SOME level hes experiencing shame and confusion for his treatment of you. that all compounds. its gonna be ugly for her, thats a guarantee. her actions, though also understandable, are foolish, and she doesnt have the knowledge you have. shes very very vulnerable, though i suspect she thinks otherwise. best case scenario, she wises up and kicks him to the curb quickly, something that would still validate you, compared to the worst case scenario.

something else that dawns on me, in the context of you being the stronger, more guarded one, is shes flat out 'easier'. less work. more willing to take him back. he may for a period in his disordered mind think it will work with her. it wont. it is always easier for them to run than to face and deal with the real, and necessary, adult struggles of a relationship. should things go sour with her, its just as possible that his mind will return to you. though he may know hes screwed that up. but that may not stop him. lots of possibilities.

so its not personal. its not that hes, as compared to a more 'normal' person, more willing to do the hard work with this person. quite the contrary. shes the shortest distance to run, and that is all. i know it doesnt feel that way, but whenever you run into this problem, its because we are on some level attributing rationale and logic to the pwBPD, even when the actions are not especially logical themselves. we attribute to them a thought process they just dont have. its a form of projection, an understandable one. youre essentially putting yourself in his shoes, and giving him your thought process, even though youd never actually be caught dead doing what hes doing.

and remember, dont sell yourself short, either. its a fine line between devaluing, and valuing what they say, but in the moment that he painted you as special, the one, etc, he meant it. but the tricky thing is, greater intimacy with you, or even the prospect of it, the hard work i referred to, can and will be enough to send them swinging the other way. you can be fairly certain that the same thing will happen to her, him comparing the two of you, and you being the ideal one, whether he acts on it or not.

i guess what im trying to do here is provide you thoughts that are simultaneously comforting, and make you shake your head at the madness. what i imagine is serving and will serve you well is that you innately see the dichotomy between your thoughts and feelings, vs what you feel as though you OUGHT to feel. just remember that there are no invalid feelings, let yourself feel. it doesnt have to make sense, and it will only make you feel worse to focus on "i shouldnt feel this way". thats how most of us feel, that we ought to be celebrating, yet we are here. thats why they make support groups for this kinda thing

i did not have a lot of trouble with agony over my replacement...so i can sort of both relate, and not always relate. frankly in my case it fed my ego in ways. i knew before i learned about BPD that it would be a disaster. it was and is, even beyond my imagination. so i feel like i can tell you the same, matter of factly. i dont know the guy, and he lives a little over three hours away, so i wasnt exposed to some of what youre exposed to. but certainly the further away you are from it all, the less it bothers you. i have zero ill will toward the guy, im quite certain hes a very nice guy, but to say he has his work cut out for him is an understatement. from everything that i gather, based on reliable information, i am the stronger one between the two of us, as is clear you are. thats another reason she has worse in store than you. but you know what? they might be together longer. who knows, they might even get married. i dont need them to explode to know what i know, and neither do you. should that be the case, it only isolates me from her, and it doesnt change the fact that the situation is not one that should be envied.

and remember, when i say things like youre clearly the stronger one, im not just trying to make you feel better, its something that jumps out in what you write. legitimate self empowerment is one of the best healers in our recovery. you are the strong one, shaking your head at the madness, keeping your head aimed at what you know (or should know) you truly deserve, and that patience and discerning mind will be rewarded.

ps. wasnt entirely clear to me if the relationship has ended/exploded or not, as is evident in my writing, but think the same thoughts apply regardless.

[abusedbyBPD]

From my own experiences and all my research it is clear that when a non is abandoned by the borderline, we are left in such shambles that we begin to doubt our self and even start to experience traits of a borderline (low self worth, unlovable, abandonment issues).  Remember, we are the non here.  We don't have BPD.  We have simply been abused and are experiencing the fall out.  It will pass for us luckily, the borderline gets to have these feelings for the rest of their life.

I'm sure most people here have felt the same.  We have all been put in a position where we have been mentally abused and degraded.  Of course we will start believing the crap we have been screamed at with.  We were all too weak to leave early on so we went through the abuse for a long time. 

I am only a  month out so i still feel like a piece of sht but i am hopeful that my time will come where i will move on and my self confidence will rise again.

[patientandclear]

Thanks so much for these replies.  You all are so tremendously insightful.

i guess what im trying to do here is provide you thoughts that are simultaneously comforting, and make you shake your head at the madness.

In particular, LS, thank you for that subtle piece of writing.  It really, really helps.  It illuminated something I'd been struggling with without realizing it.  For the first time in my life (and I'm 46 so there's been a fair amount of ground covered), when this r/s fell apart, I didn't behave in the way I always have before: I didn't run after him, didn't beg, didn't pretend the bad thing hadn't happened or wasn't significant when he came around wanting to get back together.  I asked the obvious question, despite how very much I wanted him back and how very much I wanted to get back to that amazing way I felt until he blew things up -- "why won't this happen again?"

So here, this one time, I was "strong" compared to previous versions of me, yes.  But I feel like it wasn't rewarded.  In stories, and in my friends' experience, when someone sets standards for how they want to be treated, often people rise to the occasion & treat them that way.  But here, my ex just quit.  He didn't rise to the occasion, he declared defeat and moved along.

And so it seems like the other woman "won" by doing all the things I've always done before -- loving someone no matter the cost, ignoring all that has gone on previously that is flat out unacceptable.  So every day, I feel confronted with evidence that being "strong" doesn't work.  It just leaves you here, where I am ... not having the nightly phone calls about everything and nothing, the good morning texts, the random little notes about things we know interest one another, the perfect sex, confiding everything.  That doesn't provide a lot of reinforcement for this choice, especially when I see them, or signs of them, having all of that together.

It doesn't help that for me, there was never any raging or bad behavior until he left.  I have no memory of bad times that would leaven the regret.

So it is invaluable for you to walk me through what is doubtless going on or about to go on with them.  If I have to figure all this out purely in my head, it helps to have other heads ... And you also help by giving me permission to dwell there for a while.  Maybe I'm not quite ready to not care whether things are rosy for them.  If they were, or if I thought they were, it would crush me -- it seems like it would mean I made the wrong call each time I set some sort of standard for continuing to engage with him, a standard he was unwilling or unable to meet.

Very grateful for you all.

[tailspin]

patientandclear,

I think it is normal for you to hope your ex's new relationship will not work...will crash and burn.  It's ok to want this and it is human nature.  However, continued preoccupation with his life and his happiness will derail your healing process. 

You are strong and you set strong boundaries.  He couldn't deal with this.  He went back to his old gf.  Good riddance.

Maybe it's time to stop monitoring his life and focus on your own; no good will ever come of this and detachment is not possible if you continue to focus on him instead of yourself.  His life doesn't matter anymore.  His happiness doesn't matter anymore.  It is his life.  Let him live it. 

True detachment comes when you realize you are more important than he is.  When you are more important than he is...it doesn't matter what happens with him or his next relationship.

It is your choice.

tailspin

[turtle]

Have you considered that maybe the only difference between you and the other woman is that she is more willing to tolerate his BS, that she is more willing than you, to live with an imposter? 

They were together before, so she is not ignorant about him.  She knows that this dance will not last, but perhaps she has decided that she doesn't care about that right now.  They could go on this way for a long time -- she's allowing herself to be fooled and she probably knows that at some level.

You are strong and you set strong boundaries.  He couldn't deal with this.  He went back to his old gf.  Good riddance.

I know it's hard when we are grieving the loss of all we THOUGHT we had, but this statement above is exactly right.  He left and went back to his old gf -- the old safety net - who he knows will not make him be accountable for much, if anything.  Sure --- she says she has set boundaries, but he already knows she will not enforce them. She is clearly not self evolved enough to know she has, once again, signed up for heartache -- or she has decided to momentarily ignore that fact.  Either way...she will pay the piper later. 

I have adopted the philosophy that if someone leaves...LET THEM GO. Your destiny is never tied to someone that left. 

And if, by some freak accident, those two are going to be truly happy together (HIGHLY UNLIKELY,) good for them.  YOU are moving on to things that are better - even if that means you are alone.  You can't have a relationship with an imposter.  Better to be alone than with a charlatan.

turtle

[WallyGator]

I suppose I do care. 

Our relationship of three years was simply not working at the end and I had one foot out the door.  Of course, my foot got caught in the turnstyle and she got pregnant via entrapment and now we are fighting for custody of our 3 week old daughter. 

Looking back on it, if we had simply walked away (we had been broken up for over two weeks when I got "the text") I would have been fine with being friends eventually, but not in a recycling kind of way.  Just as two people who had known each other before.  I would have had some good love in my heart for her, but would have been strong enough to keep my boundaries.  I also would have wished her well in her future relationships.  Simply put, I was in a good place at the end of our relationship because I knew it was not meant to be. 

This whole pregnancy thing really flipped the script though.  I have suffered thru guilt of leaving a pregnant woman behind, having to file a protective order, getting her arrested, etc.  And now I am awaiting temporary hearing decision and pray to God that I get primary custody because not I fear for my daughter knowing the ways of her relationships (she will cycle in and out with various men of questionable character...she is from the hood...I fear for the safety of my daughter and her dad molested her when she was young but yet she is now "close" to him). 

So yes, I have to care. 

[luckystrikes]

Have you considered that maybe the only difference between you and the other woman is that she is more willing to tolerate his BS, that she is more willing than you, to live with an imposter? 

You are strong and you set strong boundaries.  He couldn't deal with this.  He went back to his old gf.  Good riddance.

both of those said exactly what i was going to say. and i get that you probably do see it that way, on some level. but thats exactly how it is. some people do rise to the occasion and treat others the way they demand to be treated, some dont. but a pwBPD really cant. at best they can only try.

i can relate on probably a more juvenile level. ive been taught all my life "girls like guys who dont care". you know, if i dont act upset, maintain a level of class, that that would drive the girl nuts and shed want me back. its something i ingrained to the point that it was more genuine in my previous relationship. i didnt care. i always wanted distance. in the immediate after math, before my replacement was thrown in my face, i was abiding by this rule all the while going crazy, and though i was trying not to check, all signals were that she was fine. eerily enough, one of the people who really instilled this attitude in me told me it will ALWAYS work unless there is someone else. my gut told me there was someone else, and it didnt lie.

maybe not as relevant as i intended it to be, but the point is these dynamics with a pwBPD often do not match our expectations.

on some level it sucks that you didnt see the rage or bad behavior until he left, but that ought to illustrate for you how much was hidden and how unstable he is. really. and just because you saw very little of it does NOT mean she has or will.

lastly, the suggestion that she 'won' with her actions...you know better if you were not the strong one, it would be you. imagine the push pull he must have done with this person. opening my front door for a tornado, as opposed to diving into the shelter would hardly make me a winner

[ellil]

was I not worth digging into these issues?  Why would he go deal with her & the immense compatibility issues they have (whether to have kids, religious differences, huge age difference, class differences that bother him) rather than just address the core intimacy problems that seemed to be what blew things up with us?

Self improvement--especially if you're mentally ill--is not an easy thing: It's probably the most difficult thing in the world. It's far easier to tolerate a so-so or even bad-bad r/s than to do the hard work necessary to have a great r/s--especially for people who just CANNOT EVER be outside a r/s.

As far as you needing validation, we have ego. We have id. If given the choice to be accepted or be rejected, we are going to choose accepted, hands down...it's hard wired. It's ok to rather their r/s fail than succeed.  Even though you haven't been rejected, you are perceiving it that way. He rejected getting better because the work is too hard and it takes too long, which meant you had to go too because that was your boundary.

You're very smart and you're very strong. I think you will eventually come to some type of acceptance and it won't matter so much to you anymore. Ninety-nine percent of the time I don't care whether my ex is still in his replacement r/s; 1% of the time I do care and that's when I have to focus on NOT logging in to his stuff to find out for sure. But I get through that 1%. And you're getting through it too. Time I think is your friend  

M

[myself]

It's hard to wonder about whether the grass is greener on someone else's side, we all go through that at times. There's nothing more important, though, than tending to your own time and place. Ask yourself, are you better off without him? Having seen through the lies and illusions, would you even want him back? You said 'No', so that's what you need to keep focused on. Let the other woman have him! Wish her well, if you will, she's going to need it. Anyone who's consistently false and hurtful with you--- Good Riddance!

As Turtle so rightly said:

You can't have a relationship with an imposter.  

[lessonslearned]

For the first time in my life (and I'm 46 so there's been a fair amount of ground covered), when this r/s fell apart, I didn't behave in the way I always have before: I didn't run after him, didn't beg, didn't pretend the bad thing hadn't happened or wasn't significant when he came around wanting to get back together.  I asked the obvious question, despite how very much I wanted him back and how very much I wanted to get back to that amazing way I felt until he blew things up -- "why won't this happen again?"

[/quote]

Hi P&C

I want to give something back, and felt a little helpless to do so with all that I'm carrying until now...there's a great quote about integrity that I read somewhere. You asking that question (why wouldn't this happen again) and deciding to make YOUR words and actions match is what is known as integrity. It doesn't necessarily carry a reward other than the knowledge that you have it. And right now there's a little girl somewhere within you that trusts you a little more, and will relate to you a little more deeply, and make you a little more whole. Your r/s with yourself is being repaired, and that's good news for you.

No one ever said that integrity and decisions reflecting our integrity were supposed to be easy decisions - on the contrary - knowing that doing what we WANT to do isn't good for us and deciding instead to stick with what what we NEED to do to be respectful and to have integrity with ourselves is a sign of maturity. You said yourself this was the first time you made this choice.

If I was a betting man, I would bet that in time, and with making more of these kinds of decisions, you will not only respect yourself more, but will also trust yourself more, and see more clearly your path, and feel less empty because of it, and all of that will lead to a general sense of peace and wholeness that will be reflected externally in your new relationship choices. I LOVE the choice that you made, and by sticking to it you are saying - "no more pain." You might not trust others as much, but you will trust yourself because you have made trustworthy choices that prove to that little girl inside that you have integrity and can take care of her.

I really do see this for you, and I'm proud of you, as I am proud of myself for going NC immediately upon being dumped, and saying "if you leave you don't come back." (I knew about both of our past r/s and the  multiple recycles both relationships shared and how unhealthy that was, and I didn't want to get pulled into "heroic efforts"). I didn't make that rule because it would be easy, I said it because it was a promise I made myself. And, that little part of me that hoped she would come back also knew that I just put up a barrier that only her growth and her own treatment could ever remove, and that only a recovered and healing person would even try to reach through. Making my heart catch up with what I knew to be a boundary of integrity is what is the work for me right now. perhaps it's the same for you?

[Beenreplaced]

P&C,

So here, this one time, I was "strong" compared to previous versions of me, yes.  But I feel like it wasn't rewarded.  In stories, and in my friends' experience, when someone sets standards for how they want to be treated, often people rise to the occasion & treat them that way.  But here, my ex just quit.  He didn't rise to the occasion, he declared defeat and moved along.


"Right/strong" choices do not necessarily bring favorable feelings/results.  Right/strong choices are the hardest to make.  You are adhereing to your true convictions which develops character and integrity.  Don't doubt yourself you made the right decision for your own emotional health and well being.  I know this isn't easy stuff but it is the right stuff.

[lessonslearned]

"Right/strong" choices do not necessarily bring favorable feelings/results.  Right/strong choices are the hardest to make.  You are adhereing to your true convictions which develops character and integrity.  Don't doubt yourself you made the right decision for your own emotional health and well being.  I know this isn't easy stuff but it is the right stuff.

Very similar to the quote I was looking for, and a reminder for me, of why I should like myself. I will also add that adhering to right choices is the hallmark of integrity.

[HowPredictable]

How did you do this -- how did you manage, or are you managing, not to care what happens with your ex and the next person he or she takes up with?

You have received some excellent, thought-provoking responses from the wise people here.  I was going to add my own lengthy reply, but then realized I could make it comparatively short, and some of my points echo those of others.

Here are the points I keep reminding myself of:

1) The relationship was bound to fail.  With me ... with anyone.  He has an incurable disorder.  There was no other outcome for us.
2) The relationship ending has no correlation to my worth, value, or attractiveness.   It ended because he has a disorder.
3) The replacement is not getting a "prize".  She's getting disordered partner with no capacity to sustain connectedness, intimacy, trust, fidelity, or even a consistent sense of who he is.
4) The relationship they (apparently) have, is not one I'd want anyway.
5) Knowing what I now know about BPD, I wouldn't take him back, even if he begged.  Even if he committed to therapy.   The blinders are off.

Once you take the focus off the replacement and bring it back to you (where it belongs), just ask yourself:  Would you EVER want him back, anyway?  Under ANY conditions?  Likely not.  So what does (or does not) happen in the next relationship is really irrelevant.

Hang in there, P&C.   Eventually you'll get to the point where he never even crosses your mind anymore.

[patientandclear]

You guys are fantastic.  Thank you so much for all this.  I've printed it out & am carrying it around with me for emergency re-reading, which unfortunately is needed quite often.

In particular, lessonslearned, that was an amazing post.  Thank you.  I cried   in appreciation.  Not least because this person whom I have never met exhibited so much more understanding and caring about me and how I feel about all of this than the person whose absence I am still mourning.  Thank you for saying you are glad I made the decision and thank you for being proud of me.  I feel the same way about your decisions in your story (and your clear understanding of what was going on, and what it meant, as it was happening).  I know despite being proud of your own choices, you are hurting a lot -- more on that on your other thread.

Yes, making my heart catch up to a boundary of integrity that I found myself setting contrary to all my deeply-ingrained impulses to understand and love people out of hurt and not ever ever ever give up ... that is my work, too.  I am inspired by the simple line you drew: "if you leave, you don't come back."  I've thought more and more about the basic principle that, once someone hurts you badly, and fails you in some essential way when they'd led you to believe you'd be safe with them--that really almost always ought to be the end of the story.  You shouldn't need to have it happen repeatedly to confirm what you already know.

I'll trade you your not-quite-remembered quote about integrity for one about reality vs. comfort.  This is from M. Scott Peck, The Road Less Traveled, quoted in The Betrayal Bond, which I've found very illuminating about why in the past I have stayed with people who hurt me and tried to win back their love:

We must always hold truth, as we can best determine it, to be more important, more vital to our self-interest than our comfort.  Conversely, we must always consider our personal discomfort relatively unimportant, and indeed, even welcome it in the search for truth.  Mental health is an ongoing process of dedication to reality at all costs.

Gratefully,

P&C

[luckystrikes]

"Right/strong" choices do not necessarily bring favorable feelings/results.  Right/strong choices are the hardest to make.  You are adhereing to your true convictions which develops character and integrity.  Don't doubt yourself you made the right decision for your own emotional health and well being.  I know this isn't easy stuff but it is the right stuff.


needed that as well. huge tendency to either doubt myself, or question my actions.

im reminded that this whole recovery from BPD thing is, to me, something of a leap of faith. it doesnt really have to be religious, although it is for me. but you have to accept certain truths the best you can, and act on them, to get to the other side. believing in whats on the other side, and that you will indeed get there. believing that in time you wont be able to fathom what you saw in your ex.

another article of faith to me is that happy/healthy people attract happy/healthy people, so for those of us who arent great at going out and making new friends, thats truly half or more of the work.

believing hard work does pay off.

believing and knowing that ultimately in this experience, we dont really feel or think much that is unique from others. any nagging or troubling thought i dealt with, i have seen reflected in about a thousand other threads. i find that a very helpful dose of reality. its kind of like...its actually very comforting to KNOW what im thinking is irrational or temporary. or common. i remember in particular, the fear of "OMG WHAT IF THEY GET MARRIED?" i saw threads with people expressing my identical thoughts, even, remarkably, the way they jumped from one to the next. its not especially likely that theyll get married. but now i couldnt care less. i think id care a little bit for my replacement, he would be doomed. but i frankly think id feel even freer than i do now.

its like exercise, honestly, something im kind of adverse to . you do the work...whatever work that is, however much work it is, or however little. you keep doing it. you bite the bullet. then you see the results. that happiness and pride come. the rest gets easier.

and i like to think i HAVE seen the other side. i was with a girl on and off in high school whom i am willing to bet a lot of money has BPD (its a little difficult to diagnose someone you knew in high school but i keep up with her a little bit). this one effected me, i think, much more like the rest on this board. the devaluing would leave me feeling destroyed. my confidence and self esteem were non existent. i was constantly trying to be the ideal version of myself around her. my friends were always telling me she had to go. finally she did, and i was ready. i remember praying something along the lines of "okay, if im really going through with this PLEASE provide something that makes it easier". my life blossomed almost over night. friends came from out of nowhere. most of them attractive, SANE females. i was doing something fun every night and day of the summer. my confidence came roaring back. my relationship with god was at its best in years, i was reading the bible daily.

ah. and then i got with another one...then another one. and the rest is history

so the last little bit isnt terribly hopeful, but i never knew what i was dealing with until after the last one, and presumably neither did you. that changes everything. before, i was perfectly willing to entertain another crazy chick, just to 'better' my performance.

point being, although it was in high school, i like to think ive seen the other side, or even the potential in the other side. we have harder work to do now, and in most cases it will not come anywhere close to that easily. for some members on this board, it truly has. but having more work to do, or having to wait longer for it, if anything, TRULY means you have even better things in store for you.

bite the bullet. acknowledge and feel everything that you do now. but really and truly know you will get to the other side, and that it WILL exceed your expectations. 

[turtle]

I've thought more and more about the basic principle that, once someone hurts you badly, and fails you in some essential way when they'd led you to believe you'd be safe with them--that really almost always ought to be the end of the story.  You shouldn't need to have it happen repeatedly to confirm what you already know.