What is this 'fake closeness'?

[Think About It...]

It's been awhile since I've posted here as I've been with a BPD off and on for almost 9 months now. I've broken up and gotten back together with her over and over but now I've reached a point in my life where I truly feel too good and value-providing to settle with a BPD.

Now don't get me wrong - I like people with BPD just as much as other people. They're fun to have around, they're exciting, and if you keep your mind open you can really learn a lot from these people. My outlook on life and people and purpose is much improved and I really believe that people with BPD are extremely intelligent.

But there is one common trait associated with BPD that's different from the nons out there and it's this 'fake closeness' as I've been calling it.

What is this 'fake closeness'?

I like to think of it as when they say a bunch of words to make you think that they truly love you. The most common example I've found over and over again is that she'll hang out with you all weekend, sleep with you, tell you that she loves you, tell you that she wants to be with you forever and ever, cook for you, do things for you, cuddle, etc. etc. you get the idea - only to be dating/sleeping with a new guy 2 days later, and then expecting you to 'understand that it's just a fling and nothing more.'

Okay for any normal person out there, this is just not how our minds operate. I am a very open individual and I think it's absolutely fine for both men and women to explore their sexuality and sleep around. HOWEVER, it is NOT okay to be telling guys all this lovey stuff mentioned above and yet be out there sleeping with multiple guys. This is the fake closeness that I'm referring to and I believe it's why guys and girls get so attached to people with BPD only to feel like they've been lying/manipulating us the whole time based on their actions. Literally one day she loves you and the next she's with another dude. WTH right?

I have absolutely no problem with having a girl over for the night, being friends with her long-term, etc. but when you start that stuff beyond the sleeping around ie. the lovey stuff and saying how you want to be with me forever, do you expect me to sit their and view our relationship as nothing but a hook up? Of course not - if I like you, I'm going to develop deeper feelings, as do ALL NORMAL PEOPLE.

So this 'fake closeness' is how they pull you in with all this love talk, and then spit in your face. I had a girl with BPD that I was dating for a long time, telling me all this fake closeness stuff, and then invite me out to a party and start making out with a dude in front of me and then coming up to me later like it's no big deal. I told her that "I'm used to her B.S. and should have known this would happen, but that we're also done and you will never get a piece of me again." She got super mad, grabbed that other dudes hand and left to sleep with him. Only to text me the next day like nothing has changed between us . Can someone say mental?

So yea - I think at the end of the day, the problem with people that have BPD is they use 'love talk' and fake closeness to draw you in and make you think that they really love you. The reality is that they might love you for 2 hours, but then you're out of the picture the next day. Typical black/white thinking.

If you think this is healthy, you're are definitely not thinking straight. If you think you should date someone like this, you will ALWAYS be disappointed. I would ONLY date a person with BPD if they were seeking treatment. If they're undiagnosed and always trying to convince themselves and their friends that 'there's nothing wrong with them, everyone else is stupid', then keep your distance and don't let them use that 'fake closeness' crap on you no matter how much you loooove hearing those words - it's all lies just to keep you around

[oscarkool]

It's been awhile since I've posted here as I've been with a BPD off and on for almost 9 months now. I've broken up and gotten back together with her over and over but now I've reached a point in my life where I truly feel too good and value-providing to settle with a BPD.

Now don't get me wrong - I like people with BPD just as much as other people. They're fun to have around, they're exciting, and if you keep your mind open you can really learn a lot from these people. My outlook on life and people and purpose is much improved and I really believe that people with BPD are extremely intelligent.

But there is one common trait associated with BPD that's different from the nons out there and it's this 'fake closeness' as I've been calling it.

What is this 'fake closeness'?

I like to think of it as when they say a bunch of words to make you think that they truly love you. The most common example I've found over and over again is that she'll hang out with you all weekend, sleep with you, tell you that she loves you, tell you that she wants to be with you forever and ever, cook for you, do things for you, cuddle, etc. etc. you get the idea - only to be dating/sleeping with a new guy 2 days later, and then expecting you to 'understand that it's just a fling and nothing more.'

Okay for any normal person out there, this is just not how our minds operate. I am a very open individual and I think it's absolutely fine for both men and women to explore their sexuality and sleep around. HOWEVER, it is NOT okay to be telling guys all this lovey stuff mentioned above and yet be out there sleeping with multiple guys. This is the fake closeness that I'm referring to and I believe it's why guys and girls get so attached to people with BPD only to feel like they've been lying/manipulating us the whole time based on their actions. Literally one day she loves you and the next she's with another dude. WTH right?

I have absolutely no problem with having a girl over for the night, being friends with her long-term, etc. but when you start that stuff beyond the sleeping around ie. the lovey stuff and saying how you want to be with me forever, do you expect me to sit their and view our relationship as nothing but a hook up? Of course not - if I like you, I'm going to develop deeper feelings, as do ALL NORMAL PEOPLE.

So this 'fake closeness' is how they pull you in with all this love talk, and then spit in your face. I had a girl with BPD that I was dating for a long time, telling me all this fake closeness stuff, and then invite me out to a party and start making out with a dude in front of me and then coming up to me later like it's no big deal. I told her that "I'm used to her B.S. and should have known this would happen, but that we're also done and you will never get a piece of me again." She got super mad, grabbed that other dudes hand and left to sleep with him. Only to text me the next day like nothing has changed between us . Can someone say mental?

So yea - I think at the end of the day, the problem with people that have BPD is they use 'love talk' and fake closeness to draw you in and make you think that they really love you. The reality is that they might love you for 2 hours, but then you're out of the picture the next day. Typical black/white thinking.

If you think this is healthy, you're are definitely not thinking straight. If you think you should date someone like this, you will ALWAYS be disappointed. I would ONLY date a person with BPD if they were seeking treatment. If they're undiagnosed and always trying to convince themselves and their friends that 'there's nothing wrong with them, everyone else is stupid', then keep your distance and don't let them use that 'fake closeness' crap on you no matter how much you loooove hearing those words - it's all lies just to keep you around

[susanleona]

Have copied this for myself to read over and over again.  This is the main reason why I've got to leave my man.  Describes it all to a TEE.

[diotima]

I think at the end of the day, the problem with people that have BPD is they use 'love talk' and fake closeness to draw you in and make you think that they really love you. The reality is that they might love you for 2 hours, but then you're out of the picture the next day. Typical black/white thinking.

The tragedy is that many of them mean it when they say it and can't sustain it. In the first flush of romance and idealization they often do quickly promise love eternal. However, I read enough posts by BPDs that often they also know they are saying what they think they have to in order to keep you hooked. Not easy to be on the other end of that.

Diotima

[oscarkool]

Sure, they could 'really mean it' all for 2 hours like I said, but at the end of the day you have to remember that anything that comes out of someone with BPD's mouth needs to be taken as something silly they're saying. Basically, if these people aren't seeking treatment then don't believe anything they say when it comes to love.

In fact, if they're undiagnosed do whatever you can in your power to NOT get attached. If they start getting lovey on you with words, tell them to STOP! Don't get sucked in, it's simply going to hurt you. It's poison to the ears. And most people eat this crap up which is why we get sucked in so fast .

Live n' learn. I'm not a doctor by any means but just from my experiences, I know everything there is to know about BPD and the only way to have a relationship with one that isn't seeking treatment is to keep it friends with benefits only and being an all around jerk to them. But is that healthy? Heck no .

But being a jerk can be fun. Retaliation if you will. I sent some long ass letter to this guy that started dating one of my past girlfriends basically describing the whole 'relationship' and that he better have a few hard hats lying around the house. He hasn't gotten back to me yet, but I'm hoping he shows her and then she'll freak out on me, I'll ignore completely cause it's fun - nothing better than getting 45 texts in a 30 minute period. My favorite text to send to an exBPD when they contact me if I feel like having some fun is the following: "***NEWS FLASH*** The person associated with this phone has labeled you as a monster. Please refrain from contacting. Thank you and have a pleasant day " always results in another 15 messages. But i don't encourage you all to do anything like this unless you're completely over the person cause you'll get sucked back in.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[oscarkool]

Have copied this for myself to read over and over again.  This is the main reason why I've got to leave my man.  Describes it all to a TEE.

Okay so I'm going to teach you how to leave a BPD without the struggle and all that. I know it's hard but I've pretty much figured out how to do it with no pain. I was over the last girl with BPD that burned me in like 3 days...

Basically what you need to do is first take a step back from your emotions and view things from a logical perspective. Obviously from reading my post you know that the relationship is doomed and not good for you. Take a step back and physically feel the emotions. Notice where they hurt you, notice how they feel and actually say to yourself 'okay so I have this pain in my chest area and I can feel it sort of impacting my head and my stomach.' or however you react to emotions, the idea is to actually recognize where the pain is coming from and to feel it.

What you are doing is wiring your brain to actually realize that emotional pain is simply your bodies physical reaction to emotions - which are all caused by the brain! From this point, you can actually take control over these emotions. Imagine cords coming from your brain and attaching themselves to this person and the parts of your body that ache. Now visualize yourself simply unplugging these cords from the areas that are causing pain and feel yourself getting better. Do this over and over again whenever thoughts come up of these emotions. This truly works well and it's how people in control keep their emotions under control. You also must ONLY focus on the present. Don't think of the past, don't think of the future. Just focus on your life where you're at RIGHT NOW. There's no pain in the present

Okay from this point, now you pull out the big guns. Next time you're with your dude and he's being an idiot, just tell him that you two are done, you can still be friends but your body is now off limits. This is what I always say and it will piss him off but it works . Then you go into no contact mode for a couple of weeks.

Now like I said I am able to get over emotional pain in about 3 days instead of 3 years like some people so after a couple of weeks if I want to reengage, I will. If you choose this route, just keep in mind that you can't allow yourself to get sucked back in - we know what happens.

As I said above, the only way to have a relationship with a BPD that isn't seeking treatment is to literally be an all around jerk that completely dominates that relationship. Some people are naturally like this and it works out much longer (though it WILL always fail if they're untreated). My friend is a very dominate male, but a very cool dude at the same time. However, I strongly believe that even a very dominant male will still get burned by an undiagnosed BPD due to the fact that whenever you get soft and actually grow feelings towards a person with BPD, they WILL leave/cheat/etc.

Also another way to 'get back at your ex', which really isn't retaliation, is you keep talking to their friends. Chances are you've made good friends with your ex's friends simply because they're probably normal and they realize you are too. It's only natural. So what I'll do is I'll have Facebook conversations on her friends walls, maybe her family's if I'm friends with them . Basically showing that you're completely unaffected from their actions. This is one of my favorite ways to get back at them and you're really not doing anything bad at all. I actually value many of the friendships I've made thru BPD's that I've dated over the years and I'm still friends with them today - and it drives them nuts! A month doesn't go by without an ex contacting me telling me to delete their friends and stop talking to them . And if I ignore and follow up with 'Want to come over?' they always are like Sure! Which always results in the lovey fake closeness conversations that I now simply laugh out loud at when they say that stuff. Truly a sad illness BPD really is.

[susanleona]

Thanks for the tips.  I'll try some of these, like the emotional pull-backs and unplugging etc. and I'm already pulling away and not making myself available - this helps.  But the goal is to totally detach although this is hard.  It's just that every time he causes me pain I don't see it coming and control is out the window most of the time.

[oscarkool]

Thanks for the tips.  I'll try some of these, like the emotional pull-backs and unplugging etc. and I'm already pulling away and not making myself available - this helps.  But the goal is to totally detach although this is hard.  It's just that every time he causes me pain I don't see it coming and control is out the window most of the time.

It's definitely harder if you're a woman simply because you have more emotions than men. But that's not to say that detaching is easy for men - there are plenty of men who can't get over their ex after 6+ months!

It is all simply a skill and I do NOT recommend anyone reengaging unless they are truly in control of their emotions. I no longer seriously date any of my BPD ex's but I am still in contact with them. I have control over my emotions to the point where I can hang out with them, go on dates with them, sleep with them, etc. and I won't get attached. When they try speaking lovey stuff (they don't really try any more because I've made my point across multiple times), I tell them to shut up and go to sleep .

Now above you are saying 'but this is hard' and that is simply your emotions again having control over you. Think about it this way - admitting something is hard is feeding your negative emotion. Instead, when that feeling comes into your brain, just visualize yourself cutting off those loose ends and feeling better from that visualization of you detaching. I am serious, sit down and close your eyes and visualize yourself cutting him out of your life!

If you do this all day tomorrow every time he pops up into your head, I PROMISE you that you'll feel soooo much better tomorrow. If you do this one visualization EVERY TIME you think about him, you will be over him by the end of the week. It is pretty amazing.

I wish everyone knew of this stuff because it would help everybody... It's all about not dwelling on the past OR future and simply living in the present moment.

So again, ignore his texts/calls/messages for a few weeks and keep doing these emotional control exercises and feel free to reengage when you are in control. I love hanging out with my ex BPD's as they're wickedly fun, witty, intelligent but they're just horrible for serious relationships.

[Thepatman]

Just my 50 cents but sounds like you are playing with a hurt mice like a cat.

This board is about people that need to detach from a BPD and are in pain. Not to play games with them and hurt them.

[sirhero]

Just my 50 cents but sounds like you are playing with a hurt mice like a cat.

This board is about people that need to detach from a BPD and are in pain. Not to play games with them and hurt them.

I agree, and what joy do you get out of treating someone with a mental illness like that? Man up

[HowPredictable]

It also begs the question of why -- if you know so much about BPD -- you would continue to engage yourself with these disordered women, rather than seek out healthier partners.

You indicate you have had 3 different BPD girlfriends.  Most people, after learning about the disorder, would learn from the first experience, vow to look for red flags, and aim to avoid pwBPD in the future.

But not only do you seem very comfortable with pwBPD, you actually seem to relish how to "play the game" with them.   It's not clear from your post, but do you actively seek them out?

Either way (and with all due respect):  You should consider whether there is something potentially broken about about yourself, that makes them appealing to you time after time.

[oscarkool]

Yes I understand all of your points and I know what I say is controversial but you have to remember that I am in a completely different state than most people - I have complete control over my emotions to the point where I can hang out with my ex's that have BPD. It's not game playing, it's simply friends hanging out from time to time. I know it's a really hard concept to grasp since you're not at my level, but once you learn to control your emotions, you'll find that any relationship regardless of whether they have BPD or not is easy to manage.

This is THE ONLY way to have a relationship with a BPD. Do I recommend anything serious however? Hell no unless they are seeking treatment.

I don't do those 'retaliation' things any longer because there's no point since I have control over my emotions and there's no longer any drama with my BPD's. However, at the end of the day people will always be looking for ways to lash out against their ex's and a thread like this detailing what you can do PLUS the other knowledge about controlling emotions will help save people from more pain. Also if you read above, it's not really retaliation - I've made tons of friends thru my girlfriends and I'm not going to let a break up end my new relationships . If she gets mad because I'm writing on her roommates facebook page, then that's her problem - and usually results in her texting me/msging me. This is no longer the case as we're passed that, but that's what I used to do...

You guys want my full experiences or not?   I view dating a BPD as a full-blown life learning experience. The more you know and read from others, the faster you'll learn. You CANNOT date a BPD without control over your emotions and knowledge of their cruel 'game playing' ways. You'll be destroyed. You can, however, have fun friendships with them. Just don't get attached. If you think that's mean and game playing, you are very much mistaken. If they're getting help and are able to acknowledge that to you, then by all means give a serious relationship a shot. But don't be surprised if it backfires on you...

[sirhero]

Yes I understand all of your points and I know what I say is controversial but you have to remember that I am in a completely different state than most people - I have complete control over my emotions to the point where I can hang out with my ex's that have BPD. It's not game playing, it's simply friends hanging out from time to time. I know it's a really hard concept to grasp since you're not at my level, but once you learn to control your emotions, you'll find that any relationship regardless of whether they have BPD or not is easy to manage.

This is THE ONLY way to have a relationship with a BPD. Do I recommend anything serious however? Hell no unless they are seeking treatment.

I don't do those 'retaliation' things any longer because there's no point since I have control over my emotions and there's no longer any drama with my BPD's. However, at the end of the day people will always be looking for ways to lash out against their ex's and a thread like this detailing what you can do PLUS the other knowledge about controlling emotions will help save people from more pain. Also if you read above, it's not really retaliation - I've made tons of friends thru my girlfriends and I'm not going to let a break up end my new relationships . If she gets mad because I'm writing on her roommates facebook page, then that's her problem - and usually results in her texting me/msging me. This is no longer the case as we're passed that, but that's what I used to do...

You guys want my full experiences or not?

I'd like to hear it.

[HowPredictable]

I have complete control over my emotions to the point where I can hang out with my ex's that have BPD. It's not game playing, it's simply friends hanging out from time to time.

Then you don't belong on the "Leaving" board.  You should post instead on the one dedicated to "Staying".

[Thepatman]

Same here

Then you don't belong on the "Leaving" board.  You should post instead on the one dedicated to "Staying".

[oscarkool]

I have complete control over my emotions to the point where I can hang out with my ex's that have BPD. It's not game playing, it's simply friends hanging out from time to time.

Then you don't belong on the "Leaving" board.  You should post instead on the one dedicated to "Staying".

Again, you just don't get it and don't understand where I'm coming from. So instead you're somewhat angry by what I'm saying.

I am here to HELP people. Like someone said above, people with BPD are sick and mental and if you think just going 'no contact' and never speaking to them again is the best solution, it's absolutely not. It's one of those techniques that is widely encouraged but doesn't really solve the ultimate problem for either you or the BPD.

If you happen to have no control over your emotions and you allow your emotions to cause you endless pain for months, then no contact is only going to hurt you for awhile and you'll have no closure. OR, you can learn how to control your emotions, not be hurt, and still leave. Or you can do what I do and take things down a notch with your BPD's. I was in a serious relationship with one but even though I didn't have too much drama, at the end of the day a BPD is going to be a BPD and a serious relationship with one is simply something *I* don't want for me.

But does that mean I'm going to go NC and never speak to them again? No... that only hurts them even more. They know that something is wrong with them yet they can't help it. And all people ever do is leave them. So all NC does is reinforce that in their mind and make them even worse. Now a normal girl playing games? Yes, NC works fine. But on a BPD? No.

Now I personally choose to keep the BPD's in my life. I like people with BPD - they are very witty and intelligent and fun to have around. When you are able to break away from attachment and simply be friends with them (and ignore their lovey talk from time to time), they're fun people!

[tailspin]

oscarkool,

Tips on how to have a *successfully dynfunctional* relationship with someone suffering a mental illness is insulting to those of us who are trying to detach from the wounds suffered from this very event.

In my opinion, your posts display a high level of narcissism.  Could this be why you think the mentally ill are fun people to hang out with?

tailspin

[HowPredictable]

In my opinion, your posts display a high level of narcissism.

I agree.  (And if you check my history of posts, you'll see why I am arguably rather qualified to make this assessment).

Could this be why you think the mentally ill are fun people to hang out with?

More to the point, it's why he was/is able to "manage" a connection with a BPD in particular.   It has often been suggested that people with narcissistic tendencies bring their own dysfunctions to the relationship, which mesh well wtih BPD specifically.  This Board has several scholarly articles to this effect, written by respected experts.   If you haven't read them, Oskarkool, you should.  (And again, search my posts for why I feel at liberty to say this).  

The bottom line is this: You might find a more receptive audience on the "Staying" board.

[turtle]

Hmm...this is an interesting little thread.

Oscarkool --  I have no idea why you would want to "hang out" with your mentally ill exes, but hey...that's your perogative.  While crazyx was heaps of fun, he was the most dangerous person I've ever encountered.  I have no desire to "hang out" with someone who can, and who has proven he WILL, destroy me -- and that FACT has nothing to do with my emotions being under control.

It sounds dramatic - and when it all went down -- it WAS dramatic, but I shouldn't even be here today.  I should be dead from him trying to kill me. There will be no "hanging out" with that perpetrator for me - and there are many others here who are in my same position -- or close to it.  There's no amount of "fun" crazyx could offer that would make me put myself in harms way. Period.  

You think you've got this BPD thing figured out...and hey...maybe you do...but you better be careful with your "I have my emotions under control, so I won't get hurt" theory, lest you get your a$$ handed to you on a platter ---- AGAIN.

turtle

[BPD Magnet 1]

IMO...This thread is being locked.  The topic of the thread is not something that is working towards a solution that is healthy, in this case, pre-meditated actions of manipulating someone who is ill.

[FriedaB]

Hey  oscarkool,  I  noticed  you  reprimanded  another  member  on  another  thread  for  wanting  revenge.  Wrong  is  wrong,  right  ?  Why  the  double  standard  ?  They  are  mentally  ill,  and  all  of  us  (myself  included)  need  to  work  on  our  own  issues  instead  of  blaming  them.  Honestly  I  dont  even  think  it  matters  whether  they're  in  treatment  or  not...these  individuals  do  not  get  better...