How to stay

[Think About It...]

 Therefore, we ask that members do not use this board as a place to complain about their partner without seeking constructive relationship advice, ... or discuss physically staying in the relationship but emotionally detaching and shutting down. These topics should be hosted on other boards.

Thanks for this clarification UFN.  This is the biggest battle I am having - how to stay in the relationship without just shutting down emotionally as a survival mechanism.  I see/feel it happening, but dont know what to do about it.

What board is most appropriate for working through this?

[yeeter]

 Therefore, we ask that members do not use this board as a place to complain about their partner without seeking constructive relationship advice, ... or discuss physically staying in the relationship but emotionally detaching and shutting down. These topics should be hosted on other boards.

Thanks for this clarification UFN.  This is the biggest battle I am having - how to stay in the relationship without just shutting down emotionally as a survival mechanism.  I see/feel it happening, but dont know what to do about it.

What board is most appropriate for working through this?

[united for now]

Great topic 

Shutting your emotions down is a form of self protection. A way to hide and avoid more hurt. I can completely understand the lure of it, since staying positive can seem so futile and unappreciated. Yet we know where that path leads...to a hollow life.

How then, do we create the energy to stay and keep working?
I think for each of us, that spark comes from a different source. For some, we stay because our memories are strong enough to keep us attached. For others, there are still enough displays of love and affection from our partners to keep us motivated. For others, it's the children we are striving to protect. Faith is another source of staying. Or a combination of all of these or something else entirely...

Finding that strength and sense of hope isn't always easy... I know... yet I really believe that it is in inside of all of us. Life doesn't have to be filled with negative hopelessness. We do have the power to change - ourselves 

[pallavirajsinghani]

Yeeter:  Our family has faced this very same issue with our brother.  We, the rest of the family members provide him with an emotional vibrant inner life by always giving him positive support, positive energy, no complaints about his choices,  we provide like a safe haven.  In a way, we are like a protective shield around his ego.  We have respected his wife's choice of nearly 100% NC with her and her family and he has virtual 100% NC with her family.  We keep his spirit alive.  And we (I in particular and the other family by proxy) use this board to replenish our own spirits from this Board.  By being here, I have been able to get over my resentment and anger...and via me...the rest of the family.  We meet each other every day...and actually work together.  Mom cooks, we eat together...this daily interaction keeps every one grounded. 

So I hope that in posting this personal experience, I have seconded what UFN says...each of us has different ways of replenishing our inner lives.  Some find it in children, some find it in religion, some in volunteering...your means and your source will be entirely personal to you.  But I am sure, the answer does lie within you.

We need to rebuilt a strong inner life otherwise we will begin to resent the very person we love.  For we do choose to stay because of love.  In order to keep it as a choice and not a desperate compulsion of a co-dependent, we must maintain a vibrant inner self.

Of course, when you feel exhausted, depressed...we are here for you.

Do not hesitate to post something on Undecided as the answers there will help you clarify and strengthen your own choices.

[Salut]

Thanks for bringing this up Yeeter.  That statement is what has kept me coming back here when I started feeling hopeless.  And it is what tells me I have still not grown enough.

In what way do you shut down?

[yeeter]

Hi Salut,

There are many things I am still not comfortable sharing with my wife.  These are things that are very significant in my life right now (work, and personal activities and goals).  But to share with her would mean involving her in driving all the activity concerning them (she would take over and demand that 'this' or 'that' be done and in a certain way.

So to avoid this I dont share.  And this is avoidance and not tackling the underlying issues head on - but head on doesnt work (hasnt work in the past), so until I have enough confidence that I wont just get run over - I with hold.

Then these last couple weeks my wife has been stressed for various reasons.  When she is stressed is when the BPD stuff comes out (she is uNPD/uBPD - NPD when 'normal', then BPD tendencies when stressed).  So even simple conversations are difficult.

So in the interest of not making things worse - I try to avoid being around her.  I come home, we do household duties (somewhat separately), I do the kid routine and once they go to bed I go to my room and she goes to hers.  I get some peaceful time before dozing off by listening to the radio or reading.

All defense mechanisms to be sure.

Im still looking for something that we can do together that will be enjoyable for both of us.  I WANT to want to do things with her.  But at the same time I am trying to be honest with myself, and admit that I dont.  I have to keep trying - because as UFN says to drop it would mean a hollow life.  My T suggested just this week, to treat it as an exercise to SHOW my children how to express love in a relationship.  For me, this was a helpful suggestion because children learn about relationships from their parents, and mine are definitely starting to 'get it' (after all, I sleep in a separate room)

My schedule makes it difficult to have a lot of separate social activities, and I have very limited family miles away that arent particularly close. 

Palla's words always hit home for me.  Not surprisingly, this is right on the money:

"We need to rebuilt a strong inner life otherwise we will begin to resent the very person we love.  For we do choose to stay because of love.  In order to keep it as a choice and not a desperate compulsion of a co-dependent, we must maintain a vibrant inner self."

Outstanding advice - replenish our inner self.  My inner life in past relationships did revolve around the person I was with (going and doing things together - travel, camping, social, etc etc).  But in this relationship those things do not replenish me (and we just dont do them).  So I need to find a new inner life, and this is the path I am on.

When tired, exhausted, stressed, overwhelmed, etc... it is easy to run and hide vs continuing to provide our spouse with the emotional energy they are needing.  But if we cant find a break for ourself, it will suck us dry. 

So its a triangulation of taking care of myself (which means energy spent on me alone).  Protecting myself (disengaging).  While at the same time remaining present and engaged in the relationship (in a HEALTHY/POSITIVE manner)

Quite the challenge. 

[yeeter]

And another thought:

I tend to expect a lot of myself (as most of us here), and do want to at least feel like I step up and do my part in all this.

So when I think about avoidance of tackling the underlying issues - it bothers me to think that I might not be doing everything I can to make the relationship work.

But then I consider it - the underlying issues arent 'all' ones that are solvable by me and me alone.  Turns out some of what creates the negative dynamic ARE due to her issues.  And since she isnt willing to acknowledge - let alone work on - these, there is a limit to what one party can actually affect.

Hence, the stalemate of just disengaging to keep peace.  (maybe in simpler terms:  It only takes one to create conflict.  It takes two to SUSTAIN it, so all I can do is disengage to avoid the conflict sustaining).

[pallavirajsinghani]

Yes, it is quite a challenge.  Just like exercise, mental muscles (synapses) will get so used to it  so that it will become automatic.  You won't have to spend conscious thought and energy in balancing these...it will happen automatically.  For instance, when she is in a certain mood, instead of making her feel better, you will allow her this opportunity to learn how to self-soothe and automatically pick up your child and your bike and go for a ride or a walk or play fetch the ball with your dog...

You will be able to do this spontaneously as you continue to practice this balance.

:-)

[pallavirajsinghani]

This is not a "stalemate", nor is it resignation on your part.  Rather, you have perfectly described what is known as "Radical Acceptance".

This is the beginning of your healing.  And who knows, she may follow your lead towards healing.  We cannot control a person, not even when it is to their benefit.  We can however, hope to influence them with our own conduct, our own behavior, our own actions.

[desperate dutchman]

Yeeter for me its the memories and what we share together...I really like doing many things with her.  Problem is that I fell into her enmeshment and stopped doing some things that I enjoy and she does not...

When I am down I tend to put old vacation photos on my phone I even wear cloths that have meaning to us ... I think that sometimes it has a subliminal effect on her too...I seem to react better if we take each other in smaller doses and she does too... Also smaller doses gives me less of an opportunity to say something that sets her off... and if I do I am not so drained that I forget how I should handle it... The smaller doses have also let me reconnect with my kids...and in part I am making sure that the kids do not fall into the cycle

It does get trying and even though I am on the staying board I reevaluate every 4 months...

[isilme]

It may sound silly, but some of my favorite moments are when BF is still sleeping and I can sit next to him, knowing that he is calm for a while.  I tend to stick to wearing jewelry that he has given me as a way to feel close to him - it's usually not much, or flashy, expensive stuff, but it's important that he gave it to me, and since he's not in a place where he can or will give me a ring (nothing flashy here, either - I'd show him one less than $50 and head to the JP if he ever got around to asking) it's what I've got, and most days it's a nice feeling to tinker with it, knowing that at least for a moment he was able to think of me and follow through.  In fact, it's how I know how much he's hurt me at times when I look at my 'everyday' necklace and realize I don't want to put it on, because I do not feel close to him that day. 

No one's emotions are static, and so it's normal, I think, to have your own close and distant days, to pull back some when hurt, and to give space when needing a break.  I only think it's a problem when you realize it's been a week without talking, or several weeks without any type of affection - or whatever is out of the 'norm' for you both as a couple.

We can't always be shiny happy people ourselves, and no one should expect us to be a happy paragon of positivity at all times.  We deserve to be understood when we feel some despair, some loss at the situations that can develop, and react in proper measure.  Sometimes that will mean pulling away.  Sometimes it will mean you feel numb, and maybe shut down for a while.  As long as you don't stay there, as long as you are mindful of it happening, I don't think you need to beat yourself up over it.

I find that when I am decently rested and not sick, or stressed in my own right, I can handle a lot more at home, and be a stronger partner and things seem to go better overall.  At least I disengage faster.

But when I am tired and can't focus on a book, let alone the latest crisis, things can get bad, and we both add to it.  But I am trying to stay, and trying to feel better about it, even though I am allowing myself to admit it means I will forgo certain things, and have to embrace others. 

It does get trying and even though I am on the staying board I reevaluate every 4 months...

Yes - It seems that I go off and on myself, doing okay, but then having a day about every 4-6 months where I seriously map out what it would take to leave for good. 

[andywho]

Hi Salut,

There are many things I am still not comfortable sharing with my wife.  These are things that are very significant in my life right now (work, and personal activities and goals).  But to share with her would mean involving her in driving all the activity concerning them (she would take over and demand that 'this' or 'that' be done and in a certain way.

So to avoid this I dont share.  And this is avoidance and not tackling the underlying issues head on - but head on doesnt work (hasnt work in the past), so until I have enough confidence that I wont just get run over - I with hold.

Then these last couple weeks my wife has been stressed for various reasons.  When she is stressed is when the BPD stuff comes out (she is uNPD/uBPD - NPD when 'normal', then BPD tendencies when stressed).  So even simple conversations are difficult.

So in the interest of not making things worse - I try to avoid being around her.  I come home, we do household duties (somewhat separately), I do the kid routine and once they go to bed I go to my room and she goes to hers.  I get some peaceful time before dozing off by listening to the radio or reading.

All defense mechanisms to be sure.

Im still looking for something that we can do together that will be enjoyable for both of us.  I WANT to want to do things with her.  But at the same time I am trying to be honest with myself, and admit that I dont.  I have to keep trying - because as UFN says to drop it would mean a hollow life.  My T suggested just this week, to treat it as an exercise to SHOW my children how to express love in a relationship.  For me, this was a helpful suggestion because children learn about relationships from their parents, and mine are definitely starting to 'get it' (after all, I sleep in a separate room)

My schedule makes it difficult to have a lot of separate social activities, and I have very limited family miles away that arent particularly close. 

Palla's words always hit home for me.  Not surprisingly, this is right on the money:

"We need to rebuilt a strong inner life otherwise we will begin to resent the very person we love.  For we do choose to stay because of love.  In order to keep it as a choice and not a desperate compulsion of a co-dependent, we must maintain a vibrant inner self."

Outstanding advice - replenish our inner self.  My inner life in past relationships did revolve around the person I was with (going and doing things together - travel, camping, social, etc etc).  But in this relationship those things do not replenish me (and we just dont do them).  So I need to find a new inner life, and this is the path I am on.

When tired, exhausted, stressed, overwhelmed, etc... it is easy to run and hide vs continuing to provide our spouse with the emotional energy they are needing.  But if we cant find a break for ourself, it will suck us dry. 

So its a triangulation of taking care of myself (which means energy spent on me alone).  Protecting myself (disengaging).  While at the same time remaining present and engaged in the relationship (in a HEALTHY/POSITIVE manner)

Quite the challenge. 

Yeeter... I could have written this myself. But you did it for me, and you did it so well.

I have the same issues in my daily life. I want to talk to her... but i dint want. Always gets so complicated. Even discussions on the smallest issues. Sometimes i wanna tell her about wirk stuff... But i dont, becaurse she either dont care ir she will meddle too much.

If i tell her something a co worker told me, she would ask why dis he/she tell you that.


I also wanna do stuff together with her... but the smallest easiest thing like taking iur baby for a stroll will be complicated.

Well written yeet..

Andy

[yeeter]

Music touches me.  Today it was this song:

It's getting to the point where I'm no fun any more
I am sorry
Sometimes it hurts so badly I must cry out loud
I am lonely
I am yours, you are mine, you are what you are
You make it hard


Many thanks for all your comments.

[desperate dutchman]

Yeeter listen to top forty "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger " 

[yeeter]

Indeed dutch! 

[Salut]

Last night I spent some time with old friends i hadn't seen in awhile last night.  Turns out, most of the couples i knew through my friends are now divorced.  But my friends are still together.  And another long-term couple was there.

This got me thinking.  If what Yeeter said is the bottom line...

"So its a triangulation of taking care of myself (which means energy spent on me alone).  Protecting myself (disengaging).  While at the same time remaining present and engaged in the relationship (in a HEALTHY/POSITIVE manner)"

...is this a skill people in healthy r/s's have learned, or knew naturally?  Perhaps everyone has to learn to do this in relationships (marriages, friendships, etc.), and it is just harder for some of us.  Or we pair up with other people who have difficulty learning this and we are unwilling to move on - stunting our own growth toward healthy relationships.

My fear is that this might be impossible to achieve with a SO that cannot seem to look at their half.  That fear stops me from validating, keeps from committing, and is really an Albatross around my neck. 

[lastwave]

 

This is not a "stalemate", nor is it resignation on your part.  Rather, you have perfectly described what is known as "Radical Acceptance".

This is the beginning of your healing.  And who knows, she may follow your lead towards healing.  We cannot control a person, not even when it is to their benefit.  We can however, hope to influence them with our own conduct, our own behavior, our own actions.

This post is very important for friendships with BPD/NPD's. While the dynamic is different than in a marriage or 'dating' relationships the behaviors can be the same and frequently as intense. AND  in my case, as a co-dependent, I am usually am confused about the difference between being in love, empathy and my own fears of abandonment.

I try to be stable, calm, and accepting of my friends behaviors. And I do have HOPE  that my behavior and demeanor can serve as a type of role modeling for her. The radical acceptance comes in with absolute acceptance of her behaviors and the absolute understanding that I can not change her. AND I continue to work on my co-dependency issues that began long before this current close friendship.