Concerns about Therapist

[Think About It...]

One more thing, ethically, a therapist would not agree to couples counseling if there was reason to believe that one or both are being seriously abusive. That would have to get addressed individually first. It's dangerous to do couples therapy if there is active abuse going on.

H has his own T, but not sure of what went on during those individual sessions except that EMDR was done. Knowing my h, I am sure that he would have expertly covered up his dark side & told T that I am the problem. I am very sure that his T is not aware that he is abusive to me, so obviously it has not been addressed during individual sessions. I did tell my T about that.

[Dynamic]

One more thing, ethically, a therapist would not agree to couples counseling if there was reason to believe that one or both are being seriously abusive. That would have to get addressed individually first. It's dangerous to do couples therapy if there is active abuse going on.

H has his own T, but not sure of what went on during those individual sessions except that EMDR was done. Knowing my h, I am sure that he would have expertly covered up his dark side & told T that I am the problem. I am very sure that his T is not aware that he is abusive to me, so obviously it has not been addressed during individual sessions. I did tell my T about that.

[MaybeSo]

If she's specialized she is skilled with either dbt, schema, metallization based therapy or transference focused therapy. going to a couple of trainings does not make you a specialist. Having had to work with the population from time to time doesn't make her a specialist. it takes a long time to get really skilled in this area, though she may be a decent therapist and able to refer out, which Is often how a person ends up with a specialist. A Regular therapist works with someone for a while, realizes this person is beyond their scope, and refers to a specialist.  Ask exactly what specialized training she has with treating Axis II PD. Ask if she has had success with treating BPD. What method is she using for treatment? Can she refer you to someone who has specialized training if she does not?

Right now your own individual therapy is likely the most important thing. If your H is NPD or BPD he is not a good candidate for couples therapy right now, anyway. My ex would act like Forrest Gump in couples counseling then tear into me on the way home in the car. He was NOT a safe enough person to do couples counseling with. You KNOW he is being verbally abusive. You do not need a professional to tell you that, and if you do, then you need to work individually with your own therapist.  A couples counselor is an advocate of the relationship.  A therapist doing work with you 1 on 1 is YOUR advocate. Sounds to me like you need your own advocate, not a couples counselor.

[MaybeSo]

I want to also suggest you speak with a DV counselor.

[Dynamic]

If she's specialized she is skilled with either dbt, schema, metallization based therapy or transference focused therapy. going to a couple of trainings does not make you a specialist. Having had to work with the population from time to time doesn't make her a specialist. it takes a long time to get really skilled in this area, though she may be a decent therapist and able to refer out, which Is often how a person ends up with a specialist. A Regular therapist works with someone for a while, realizes this person is beyond their scope, and refers to a specialist.  Ask exactly what specialized training she has with treating Axis II PD. Ask if she has had success with treating BPD. What method is she using for treatment? Can she refer you to someone who has specialized training if she does not?

Right now your own individual therapy is likely the most important thing. If your H is NPD or BPD he is not a good candidate for couples therapy right now, anyway. My ex would act like Forrest Gump in couples counseling then tear into me on the way home in the car. He was NOT a safe enough person to do couples counseling with. You KNOW he is being verbally abusive. You do not need a professional to tell you that, and if you do, then you need to work individually with your own therapist.  A couples counselor is an advocate of the relationship.  A therapist doing work with you 1 on 1 is YOUR advocate. Sounds to me like you need your own advocate, not a couples counselor.

A part of email message from T:
One of the areas where I have specialized for years involves borderline personality and dissociative
disorders; and what I said is that I wish to put my attention on what heals the person rather than labeling
him or her with a diagnosis.  Also, when I do billing, I am very protective of people and I don_

[Dynamic]

I want to also suggest you speak with a DV counselor.

Other than providing counselling for me, what are the other consequences of going to a DV counselor? My h is the only one working, so I am worried about how it might affect his job status. H takes care of all expenses including our son's college fees, mortgage etc.

And yes, my h knows very well that I would not go that extent, hence the abuse is escalating.

[MaybeSo]

I would not announce you are seeing a DV counselor. A DV counselor will go to great lengths to protect your safety and privacy above all else. There will be no consequences to his job unless he beats the crap out of you and you have him arrested. Obviously that may have consequences for him, as it well should. You NEED to speak with a DV counselor and you need to focus on you own work. Your H is not a candidate for couples therapy from what you are describing.  turn your attention away from the idea that the right therapist is going to fix him. That would take years even if he agreed to it, meanwhile he will continue to be who he is. You have no control over him. The only person you for sure have control over is yourself. Put your energy and focus on your own growth. I understand this not the message you want hear but it really is the only way.

[Dynamic]

I don't think I can use his insurance to see DV counselor since there will be electronic records which h might get to see. So I think I should just draw money from ATM & pay by cash.

I understand your point. I have been taking care of myself the past 2 months more than I did all these years. Seeing my changed attitude not participating in circular arguments & not making a big deal of small issues, even my h admitted yesterday that I have become 'ok' & that he has not. He also admitted that though his conscience tells him to stop doing/saying undesirable things, he is not able to stop.

Yes, it is hard to hear the message. Thank you so much for your input, MaybeSo. I cannot discuss/have not discussed this issue with anyone in any mode till now.

[MaybeSo]

DV counseling is usually free; most community agencies are funded through grants. So that should help, too.

[Dynamic]

Thanks for the information, MaybeSo.

[Aida]

Dynamic,

I have spent some time reading your thread. I can feel your pain and frustruation. I'm right there with you. I have felt myself going insane when my SO twists my words around and spouts them right back at me, taken right out of context, or misconstrued into an outright lie when she is dyregulated. Steph has plastered this mantra across my forehead, for when the first abusive word comes out of my SO's mouth: leave the scene, whatever it takes.

I have come to this board on my knees. This community, literally, is saving my life. Really.

I have made the grave mistake of sharing with my SO what has been said in my private therapy sessions. If I could turn back the clock, that is the one thing I do over, and keep it all to myself. I have not shared that the therapist "suggested" she might be BPD, but I did share some other things, one of which, precipitated my seeking out this forum. My partner's suicide threat was fueled by my telling my SO that my therapist said it would only take one call to the police and she would stop making suicide threats, only to me, like she has for the last ten years. Good advice. Bad mistake to share it with SO.

I plan on continuing therapy knowing full well that my SO will never seek therapy, nor will she ever be officially diagnosed BPD. I have been advised on this board to continue with my therapist, and that it is possible to find healing for myself, even if my SO is not getting professional help presently.  When I read about other partners getting therapy, seperately, and as a couple, my heart bleeds, because I want to get well, together, with my beloved.

Since it's not going to happen, all I have is me. Strike that; it is with the help of myself, my therapist, and this community, that I hope I to find healing, with, or without, my loved one.

I do have one teeny tiny thought. MaybeSo might have some thoughts on this. Might it be wise for you to have your own personal mental health advocate, one who would not be conflicted or dissuaded by your husband's misrepresentation of you? Just a thought.

Keeping a good thought for you. Love and peace to you, Dynamic.
Aida

[Dynamic]

Aida,
Thanks for your concern. We all seem to be in the same boat. Yes, this forum is a Godsend. Finally it made sense of what I am facing/still facing on a day-to-day basis all these years.

Yes, I suppose I should have had my own T to vent out, heal myself & get guidance before starting couple session. I am still considering whether to continue with her or not.

Yes, as advised by everyone here & in books, it is best that we take care of ourselves first. It is hard to do that when we know that a bombshell will go off any minute. But we can do it & eventually the results will be more promising when our SO sees the change & comes forward to change themselves.

Again, thank you. Together we can help & guide each other for a peaceful co-exisence with our SO without giving up our self respect & at the same time nurturing our r/s.

[Dynamic]

GM & Steph,
The following is part of the email message sent by T:

I would like to meet with both of you and also have both
of you take the Myers/Briggs Personality Inventory.
 
It helps people understand a lot about each other.

_____________________________________________
I think she did mean Myers/Briggs because I remember seeing that listed in printout of her profile that she gave me during the 1st session. I am away from home & I do not have the profile with me right now. From her email, I get the feeling that she is treating us like high conflict couple & aiming to give marriage counselling instead of a couple with 1 person having PD & the other, a non.

If she meant Myers/Briggs, is it beneficial to take it?

GM, I went over the posts that I accessed through your link. I did see the questions to ask T to see whether they are good in treating BPD. She did mention in an email that she has experience treating BPD & but I did not probe & ask her how many BPD clients she has treated. I will ask her those questions when I meet her next. Honestly, I do not feel confident with her expertise in BPD.

Steph, so is it safe to assume that Myers is not that efficient or not an apt choice for pwBPD? The situation with my h is getting worse & worse & I have a feeling that T is not getting it, at least the seriousness of h being pwBPD. She also said in an email that she is going over the books I gave her. These are the books - SWOE, I hate you, don't leave me, Loving someone with BPD & The everything guide to BPD. Even if she learns stuff from these books, I am wondering how efficient she will be in treating my h, who seems to be an intense case having BPD & maybe NPD.

I will attend one more session, ask her in person the questions GM mentioned & take it from there.

GM,
Just wanted to know whether the Myers test would do any good for us.

[GreenMango]

As Steph mentioned the myers is fallible a person can answer dishonestly.  Or answer dependent on their feelings at the time.  That is the part I would be skeptical about because if you are dealing with someone who from your posts is in the middle of an extinction burst, participating in creating conflict and actively emotionally volatile I would wonder if the myers test would be accurate.  This would go for my own test results because I know how crazy and not myself I felt while at the peak of the dysfunction.   

It doesn't meter personality disorders. But like Maybeso said it may interesting in finding out where you guys are in relationship to common personality styles.  Shoot you can take a myers on your own via the internet if you wanted and get the same level of accuracy.  Can you ask for an MMPI?

The most important thing is to get yourself to a place where you are strong, resilient and responsive again.  Do you have your own therapist you can run this by?

GM

[Dynamic]

GM,
Thanks for the feedback. T did not answer my question (about whether she is planning to give the Myers or MMPI) in her email. Instead she asked when I can come for individual session & when both of us can come for couple session.

I asked for some time off from T last week since I was at my wit's end last week. Also, I was buying time to think about continuing with this T. My h had his 2nd individual session last week.

I suppose ideally both my h & I should have individual Ts & then a 3rd T for couple sessions. Probably I'll have to look for my own T.

[1brokenwing]

Hi Dynamic

I skimmed through responses so I apologize if you already addressed this.  Uum how did you get your husband into  therapy?  Does he see problem in him or you guys' relationship?  Does he know what BPD is and does he have any insight into his possessing traits, features etc?  

Myers/Briggs DOES seem a bit esoteric in this case, especially as an assessment tool.  It is helpful because it looks at the ways a person looks at the world, how the partner looks at the world and therefore each can learn and understand the other better.  I dont see hownthis would work with an individual with an Axis II diagnose (personality disorder or features) because of the PATHOLOGY they present including projection, distortions, paranoia, etc.  Also, I think I read  somewhere that couples counseling is simply not a good idea if one of the partners has BPD.  I wish I could remember the source!  It can be damaging in fact.  DBT. For him.  Individually and for a while. Probably to work through distortions, projections etc.  What type of therapist is she (licensed MFT, LCSW, Ph.D.)?  What is her "orientation".  Psychodynamic? Cognitive-behavioral? Rogerian? Etc.

[GreenMango]

I suppose ideally both my h & I should have individual Ts & then a 3rd T for couple sessions. Probably I'll have to look for my own T.

This seems like the safest course of action especially based on Maybeso's and Steph's input about how therapists handle counseling in these situations.

If you have  an experience with therapy like many of us I've read about here or experienced myself it was the most helpful thing in getting to a place where I could make clear and healthier decisions.  It could be your strongest ally.  At this point the only thing you have control over is you, and this is the easy part because he's already in it (members here beg and plead for years to get their partners into T).  Now it's just a matter of finding one for yourself because your mental health is just as important as his.

Keep us posted on your search and take good care of you,
GM 

[Dynamic]

Hi Dynamic

I skimmed through responses so I apologize if you already addressed this.  Uum how did you get your husband into  therapy?  Does he see problem in him or you guys' relationship?  Does he know what BPD is and does he have any insight into his possessing traits, features etc?  

Myers/Briggs DOES seem a bit esoteric in this case, especially as an assessment tool.  It is helpful because it looks at the ways a person looks at the world, how the partner looks at the world and therefore each can learn and understand the other better.  I dont see hownthis would work with an individual with an Axis II diagnose (personality disorder or features) because of the PATHOLOGY they present including projection, distortions, paranoia, etc.  Also, I think I read  somewhere that couples counseling is simply not a good idea if one of the partners has BPD.  I wish I could remember the source!  It can be damaging in fact.  DBT. For him.  Individually and for a while. Probably to work through distortions, projections etc.  What type of therapist is she (licensed MFT, LCSW, Ph.D.)?  What is her "orientation".  Psychodynamic? Cognitive-behavioral? Rogerian? Etc.

From last year, my h has been having his own T & P. My h's T had asked me to have my own T & gave a referral. Then my h's T said that we could go for couple session. Oddlly enough, that referral turned out to be a psychologist not a T.  Was h's T trying to give me a clue here? I have a left a voice mail for the psychologist. Expect to hear from her today.

I started seeing this T from last month. It was my h who kept on asking me to have my own T, since his T said so. He also said that he will also come to see T if needed. Later he said that he was under the impression that this T was my T & he did not think that he was supposed to come for couple session with this T. He goes back & forth in seeing this T when dysregulating & in normal moods.

I heard about BPD the first time in October 2011, but seriously learned about it only from this April. As advised in this site & elsewhere, I did not tell my h about my doubts. My h is not aware of BPD traits. If his T & P diagnosed him with BPD, they did not tell him. He had individual sessions with his T & P & I doubt that he told about his dark side & everything that is going on at home.

My T is a licenced MFT. Her profile says that she provides insight therapy & cognitive restructuring. With my research online & with what GM & Steph's replies, I understand that Myers Briggs will not help us that much & that MMPI would be helpful in detecting PDs. When I asked my T through email to confirm whether it is Myers or MMPI test she is giving, she seems evasive to reply but showing interest in us coming for future sessions.    

[Dynamic]

I suppose ideally both my h & I should have individual Ts & then a 3rd T for couple sessions. Probably I'll have to look for my own T.

This seems like the safest course of action especially based on Maybeso's and Steph's input about how therapists handle counseling in these situations.

If you have  an experience with therapy like many of us I've read about here or experienced myself it was the most helpful thing in getting to a place where I could make clear and healthier decisions.  It could be your strongest ally.  At this point the only thing you have control over is you, and this is the easy part because he's already in it (members here beg and plead for years to get their partners into T).  Now it's just a matter of finding one for yourself because your mental health is just as important as his.

Keep us posted on your search and take good care of you,
GM 

Thanks for your feedback, GM. I will do more research & keep you all posted.

[1brokenwing]

D

It's a bit convoluted, but hey it's good he is willing to go!  Bottom line at this point is taking care of you. Your healing.  An individual T that meets your needs. Guess the couples T is tricky. I would think if there are THREE Ts there should be some collaboration so they are not all pulling in a different direction! Best of luck. 

[Dynamic]

So here's the update:

Yesterday, I had sent an email to my h requesting him to open to me, Ts & Ps since otherwise we cannot find the root cause of our problems. I also assured him that I will stay with him & support him. Then my h responded by saying that we can talk in the evening. Late in the evening he said that he also does not like his behavior when he is angry & that he also feels something is not right. He also admitted that he is selfish & expect things to be his way. He added that he has taken up walking (he had walked 2 miles each day for the past 3 days) which provides a change, relaxes him as he listens to songs, keeps him healthy (to lose weight) & out of the house. I did appreciate the open talk, but a little disappointed because probably I was expecting to hear from him that his T or P diagnosed him for BPD. But I guess since he has not told them all the details about what is going on, they have not diagnosed him as BPD except P has prescribed anti-depressants for his mood swings.    

Today morning, I was feeling really sad & wondering what to do with the situation. So I did what I should have done in the 1st place. I researched our insurance website & looked for psychologists & therapists in our network who specialize in DBT. There were a reasonable number of them in our area. There were even some Ts who specialized in DBT & couple therapy. I have left messages with some psychologists saying that my h rages & has mood swings & want him to be tested. Depending on the results of the tests & psychologists advice, I will proceed to take h to see Ts who can help him with his problem.

When my h called to ask about my feedback about his open talk, I told him that since he has had outbursts when he was younger (before our marriage) & now that the problems between us has worsened, it is obvious that it is not a routine thing couples normally have. At that time, he admitted that he got irritated with some colleagues today & showed his anger though it was not that bad as he does with me. He said that it has happened some times during meetings when his colleagues do not agree with him. He also said that he needs to show his disagreements with others in a better way & that he just does not know how. He admitted that it is not just mood swings that is affecting him & the anti-depressants are not helping him at all. So I told him that if that is the case, then we need to see a professional to find out what the problem is & maybe get to stop taking anti-depressants. He is already on meds for high BP & cholestrol.

I told him that though I am also not perfect & I had my own issues to work on, that was not the reason behind our problems. I do not have a problem with my family members (parents, brothers) or with anyone while was working briefly for paid jobs & volunteering for 10 years. But since he has been having problems getting along with others as a boy, at work & with me, there is something behind it & emphasized the need to get him tested. I told him that I have called psychologists & left messages. I did not bring up BPD since it is not a good idea to tell him & I am sure it will backfire on me & any developement for that matter. He assured me that he will co-operate & is ready to do anything that I feel is right for him. Since he is taking time off from work from tomorrow, he also expressed his wish to go trekking for a change of scene & to reduce stress. I was astonished with his behavior & could not believe that he listened to me patiently, expressed interest & was ready to get to the bottom of it.

So that's where we are right now. Hopefully things will lead to some progress soon.