Latest episode, I don't think she knows what happens to her

[Think About It...]

Recently it was our daughter's 18th birthday. Her friends decided to give her a surprise b-day at our house during the afternoon so it was hush-hush. Day or so before my 16yr old daughter, 14yr old son and I are in the kitchen when we hear my wife tell my daughter to invite all her friends over to our house for a party on her b-day. My other kid's and I look at each other like "WTH?" Later, we ask her why, maybe not a good idea since her friends already have something secret going on, it might be confusing for her friends what to do, timing, would she call the right people (we don't know which friends are part of the surprise or will be coming) and so on.

Of course that lack of 100% confirmation of her idea sends her into a fit of anger. Which includes her also looking, or projecting energy, like she's been brutally attacked and rejected. Which makes us feel bad. And that's before hardly any of the reasons above can even be discussed.

Day before B-day just my 16yr old daughter and I are in the kitchen and my wife does this again. 16yr old and I VERY CALMLY say it might not be a good idea and confusing to some people. Instantly in front of us wife retreats emotionally, beings to cry, we watch her go distant with some angry words tossed at us. Then leaves. Daughter whispers to me, "Mom's psycho."

So once again I have to go do ALL the work to cope and manage this stuff -- my wife and what she leaves behind. If I don't, there's no telling how long she'll stay in this condition.

-I have to talk to my other daughter "everything's fine...we know she loves you..."
-I have to find and talk my wife back down, "...I'm sorry...sorry...everything is OK...just hang for a while...we don't mean it about you...let's get back to the day you, we, we're having..." After a couple hours she actually came back.*

Things seem fine that night, and I take a big chance to ask her something. I'm wondering if she has any idea at all about these episodes? Not so much that they happen, but what happens to her, like when she disappears* in front of me. In this case, when she started crying. Well...she instantly got mad, started yelling (this is in bed). She starts in with there was nothing at all wrong with her idea and we were a bunch of jerks for not agreeing. It took me a very long time for her to not think about what was said, or what we spoke about, but: how she physically reacted, what she was feeling.

Best I could tell, she does not. She couldn't relate or speak to (or remember?) the crying, the extremely distant look in her eyes, the vacantness that overcomes her. Which tells me she may in fact very literally have zero comprehension of any of her behavior or what I've experienced on this side the line, things she's said in vicious anger, what I deal with or how I have to help her when she's expressing deep deep deep despair. She has no idea what she's going through, how behaving, what she's saying to me, how treating me (or kids) or all the work I've done and do to help her over the years -- including some VERY hard intense times some years ago when she was at her worse.

Is a jekyll and hyde thing a BPD symptom?

It's great when she's "around."* But gosh, the bad my very well exceed the good. And unfortunately it's not stuff I can just ignore.  It takes time and energy and work on my part. Drags me in.

So tired.

Thanks for letting me vent.


*I don't mean she literally leaves when I say she "retreats" or "disappears" or "goes away" she can be standing in front of me, but she's gone. I can see it in her eyes.

[ImTheHusband]

Recently it was our daughter's 18th birthday. Her friends decided to give her a surprise b-day at our house during the afternoon so it was hush-hush. Day or so before my 16yr old daughter, 14yr old son and I are in the kitchen when we hear my wife tell my daughter to invite all her friends over to our house for a party on her b-day. My other kid's and I look at each other like "WTH?" Later, we ask her why, maybe not a good idea since her friends already have something secret going on, it might be confusing for her friends what to do, timing, would she call the right people (we don't know which friends are part of the surprise or will be coming) and so on.

Of course that lack of 100% confirmation of her idea sends her into a fit of anger. Which includes her also looking, or projecting energy, like she's been brutally attacked and rejected. Which makes us feel bad. And that's before hardly any of the reasons above can even be discussed.

Day before B-day just my 16yr old daughter and I are in the kitchen and my wife does this again. 16yr old and I VERY CALMLY say it might not be a good idea and confusing to some people. Instantly in front of us wife retreats emotionally, beings to cry, we watch her go distant with some angry words tossed at us. Then leaves. Daughter whispers to me, "Mom's psycho."

So once again I have to go do ALL the work to cope and manage this stuff -- my wife and what she leaves behind. If I don't, there's no telling how long she'll stay in this condition.

-I have to talk to my other daughter "everything's fine...we know she loves you..."
-I have to find and talk my wife back down, "...I'm sorry...sorry...everything is OK...just hang for a while...we don't mean it about you...let's get back to the day you, we, we're having..." After a couple hours she actually came back.*

Things seem fine that night, and I take a big chance to ask her something. I'm wondering if she has any idea at all about these episodes? Not so much that they happen, but what happens to her, like when she disappears* in front of me. In this case, when she started crying. Well...she instantly got mad, started yelling (this is in bed). She starts in with there was nothing at all wrong with her idea and we were a bunch of jerks for not agreeing. It took me a very long time for her to not think about what was said, or what we spoke about, but: how she physically reacted, what she was feeling.

Best I could tell, she does not. She couldn't relate or speak to (or remember?) the crying, the extremely distant look in her eyes, the vacantness that overcomes her. Which tells me she may in fact very literally have zero comprehension of any of her behavior or what I've experienced on this side the line, things she's said in vicious anger, what I deal with or how I have to help her when she's expressing deep deep deep despair. She has no idea what she's going through, how behaving, what she's saying to me, how treating me (or kids) or all the work I've done and do to help her over the years -- including some VERY hard intense times some years ago when she was at her worse.

Is a jekyll and hyde thing a BPD symptom?

It's great when she's "around."* But gosh, the bad my very well exceed the good. And unfortunately it's not stuff I can just ignore.  It takes time and energy and work on my part. Drags me in.

So tired.

Thanks for letting me vent.


*I don't mean she literally leaves when I say she "retreats" or "disappears" or "goes away" she can be standing in front of me, but she's gone. I can see it in her eyes.

[Dynamic]

ImTheHusband,
I can understand your tough situation where you can't let down your wife to your kids, have to handle your wife, sort the mess & take care of yourself. I was doing all those full time till last year when kids were around. Now with an empty nest & occasional visits by kids, it is less pressure. But not out of the woods, yet.   

The Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hide is definitely a BPD trait. It is one of the things that nons dread since they are also taken along the roller coaster ride. My h does remember what he said & did. Before he used to fool me by saying that he does not remember. But when he apologizes later, he brings up stuff that he did or said while dysregulating. When I confront him about it, he would justify himself by saying that my behavior only made him do or say all that. Questioning my h's impractical ideas makes him get defensive & makes him feel that I am attacking & rejecting him. I cannot even start to reason with him & explain why his idea won't work since he is already mad. 

Though he remembers what he said or did to me, he (like your w) also cannot understand what he is going through, what I am going through & the extent of damage he is causing to me. But he admits that he feels high strung at that time & at one point he cannot control himself at all. But deep inside, I know that he wants to have a great r/s with me just as he has with everyone else, but doesn't know how.

[united for now]

Being the emotional caretaker can get tricky, especially when you add kids into the mix.

It's important for us to be strong, yet we can't "do" for them what they should be doing for themselves either. I'm concerned when you say

So once again I have to go do ALL the work to cope and manage this stuff -- my wife and what she leaves behind. If I don't, there's no telling how long she'll stay in this condition.

It's tough when our loved ones sink into depression and retreat, yet if we go running after them trying to make it all better then we are enabling them to not learn healthier ways of coping themselves. We are depriving them of the chance to grow. We are robbing them of the chance to succeed. We are taking away their incentive to try on their own. We are essentially still tying their shoes long after they should be tying them themselves.


What would happen if you just left her alone to self soothe herself?
What would happen if you didn't make excuses for her bad behavior?

[ImTheHusband]

What would happen if you just left her alone to self soothe herself?
What would happen if you didn't make excuses for her bad behavior?

I have no doubt that's the way she'd prefer me to behave. So, she'll stay that way, withdrawn anywhere from an hour to a couple days. Slowly come out of it then behave like nothing happened. Like everything is and has been perfectly normal. I'd just have to wait it out.

Not sure what you mean by me making excuses for her behavior. Unless you mean to my daughter? I don't necessarily. I remind her in good times and bad she cannot behave that way in front of our children. That's she's way out of line when she behaves towards them as she does to me. I tell her that in front of them. I know in fact that my wife's father never stood up for her or to my wife's mother when she did a lot of the damage to my wife -- holds that against him. My wife doesn't seem to respond too badly when I stand up for the kids.

[united for now]

A couple of days would be tough to watch, especially since you are picking up the slack in her absence.

When you mention you help her, what does that mean?

[Empty]

I've been thru this sort of behaviour from my BPDw countless times and it always leaves you dumbfounded as to what they think they are doing or achieving. The "favourite" one mine did is on any occassion that didn't relate directly to her she would suddenly "create" a situation where she could leave the house and avoid the occassion. The only birthday that got celebrated without this was hers. Easter, Fathers Day, Xmas, kids social engagements ... all sabotaged.

At first I used to try and understand her and rationalise whatever drama she had concocted but it never made an ounce of difference. Eventually I just organised the occassion and ploughed on ahead without her. This tactic made her ramp up her drama and yet at the end of it she would capitulate and then try to make out that she had done all the organising. The kids used to sit there in stunned disbelief.

I can't say that doing things they way I did is going to help but at least it meant that the kids got to have their special occassions.

[Steph]

 My H has recovered from BPD and I talk with him from time to time, about the stuff that was mysterious back then and is now to others here.

  He says that when someone starts to dysregulate, save yourself and allow them to soothe themselves.

 She knows, now, that you will behave a certain way, and that way feels positive to her. It enables her behavior and she knows she will get rewarded when you to your routine to make her feel better. Likely, she gets this way and expects your support and kindness so you can save her from her overwhelming emotions. She has learned to do this.

  Now, if you allow her to self soothe, she may take some days to get over it. With BPD, you dysregulate quickly and de escalate  slowly. At some point, with any luck, she will see you and the kids moving on with your lives while she does her thing. Its perfectly ok for it to be this way!

   And...fwiw...there IS effective treatment for BPD! It isnt like you are the one to cure her, there IS help. Allowing her to experience her emotions will, perhaps, help her decide that treatment makes sense.

Steph

[waverider]

   And...fwiw...there IS effective treatment for BPD! It isnt like you are the one to cure her, there IS help. Allowing her to experience her emotions will, perhaps, help her decide that treatment makes sense.

Steph

This is very important, as long as we try fixing and band aid people with problems, whether it be BPD or addiction problems, then the suffer is deluded into thinking its not really a big deal. Only they can set about fixing it, and they need the determination to do that. It is a big ask for them as it is a hard road, and personally hard to face up to. To create that great need to fix it, it is necessary for them to experience the consequences of not doing so. For them to believe that they cant go on living that way. It is our job to look after ourselves and our family and to make sure we are not contributing to the problem, not allowing us to be the scapegoat nor adding to it. ie dont allow them to handball the problem

[amaris]

Wow, this answers my question if it is common for BPD's to alway dysregulate right before a holiday...since we have been married (13 years)my h has ruined every holiday I have planned for my grown kids and grand kids.   just before they are to arrive he will find some stupid thing that upsets him and begins to rant and yell for hours...he has been known to rage until they ring the door bell and then he instantly becomes the other guy...Fathers day we all hate because 2 weeks before he would start moping and complaining because no one cares about him on fathers day and they don't do what he wants to do, ever...he is always asked by the family but he acts all surprised and is non committal and then rages when they are gone that they dont respect him...it is maddening...This year I told him very calmly and with a smile on my face that I was going to be with my sons on F. day and if he wanted to go and have fun he was welcome but if not I am sure he could find something really great to do and I would join him later...he seemed shocked and never acted out at all...so weird...he is very jealous of my relationship with my children...

[Dynamic]

I would like to understand why pwBPD dysregulate on special occasions.

My h is at his worst on his birthday which incidently falls around New Years. When the whole world is rejoicing, our home would be like a battlefield. It is so hard to call friends & family or return calls to wish them. On the eve of last Father's day, he dysregulated. I was torn apart wondering how he would be the next day & as to how to give the man a treat when he just dysregulated. But suprisingly, he had a quick recovery on Father's day & the day went by without any problem. Like a small boy, he was thrilled with the gifts we bought for him including trekking poles & headphones which he wanted.

Wish I know why the triggering is intense during special occasions.

[waverider]

I get this too, I always put it down to a fear of the daily routine being disturbed and fear of something going wrong. It puts them out of their control/comfort zone. It is a strong OCD reaction

[amaris]

I think it is also jealousy that the attention is not on them alone... ?

[ImTheHusband]

A couple of days would be tough to watch, especially since you are picking up the slack in her absence.

When you mention you help her, what does that mean?

To be honest I'd guess I'm mostly helping myself. Because I don't care to be in and share a house and bed and relationship and family and space with someone who is projecting such massive negative energy -- whether she had an angry episode or a depressed episode. We were on the way to buy some tile yesterday for a master bath remodeling we're doing. I've been very successful professionally but I'd like to make a professional change, likely to a much lower salary -- which I know she'd be OK with. I mildly brought this up with a sarcastic "hope you don't look down on me" comment and she started crying. I had to change subject, real her back in so she could wipe the tears and fix her face as we pull into the tile place. There's NOTHING I can talk about -- from the weather to emotional or house stuff -- that doesn't risk an intense breakdown from her at any given moment. I don't have anyone to talk to.


ADDITIONALLY!
I can't believe all the comments here about special occasions. This is so true for her. I stay as far away as possible from her on her birthday and Mother's Day especially. She can have all-out breakdowns into either anger or depressive withdrawal. We all know this now. She's also this way for mine and the kids' b-days, but not as intensely (except my 40th). Or rather...she does not want to deal with them, plan anything, discuss or be involved. Would rather ignore and may deride me for wanting to do something, or for thinking it matters. I risk an episode if I try to pull her into discussion about it. I'll never forget my 40th birthday eight years ago. She has a massive massive massive meltdown that morning. I woke up, said something who knows what, and she flipped out balling, crying her eyes out. I spent most the morning/day talking her out of that funk (thinking I do this too much, right?) I just wanted to hang out, mindlessly drink some margaritas on the porch, maybe go to dinner close by -- no fuss or mess. Day was a bust, no gifts, dinner, nothing -- that DOES NOT matter, but just saying she was completely removed from it and the whole day was about her breakdown. And me taking care of the little kids while she slept. Hell, selfishly, obviously, turning 40, I thought it be somewhat fun to...do something? See above for honestly all I wanted and told her days before.

I feel like crap about myself because I've really caved to her approach in many ways. I have not fully in spite of her taken over making events happen. Haven't done as much as I'd like to, but I do do stuff and make something happen. Forget about planning a vacation. I get zero input or ideas. Can't tell you how much money we've wasted buying tickets and hotels at the last minute. Same deal on the holidays. Will do what she can to get out of going and avoid bigger extended family stuff. Me not just taking over is a result of the beatdown and energy expenditure of dealing with her. Nothing short of completely ignoring her will work. Which is hard. But I'm seeing that's what I need to do.

Sorry my rants are incomprehensible ramblings. Would you believe I'm a writer in real life?
It's true.
I won't bother to fix or more carefully craft the words above. Hopefully the gist of things is coming through.

Thanks for reading

[amaris]

Dear Imthehusband...wow, your wife and my husband would be quite the pair...I have found that taking over and just doing it and making my mind up that I am alone and I can do this thing alone and he can do want he wants, then I end up having fun with my kids/family...however, they are all out of the home and live nearby, thank God.  I tell him what I am going to do and how i am going to do it and if he isn't comfortable or has any issues that it is okay for him to find a way to take care of himself...I make it clear my attention will not be on him.  If he chooses to go into a rage for any reason under the stars, I just tell him I can see that he feels that way with a sweet therapeutic type voice and them tell him I am leaving for a while til he pulls it together...then if I realize he is gonna make our home a battle field for my kids to walk into I replan the event at one of their houses and attend alone...they have told me they are quite relieved when he doesn't come.  That was an eye opener.  I thought I had covered him up pretty well...I have had intense anger for him ruining all my memories with my kids and then realized I allowed that to happen...    I have given up on my 'picture' of good ol mom and dad so happy to have all the kids at home...

I wish a therapist would come on here and explain what it is that triggers them on special occasions...is it simply they cannot deal with someone else getting the attention they want?  much like a 2 year old who starts screaming when you are on the phone?

[united for now]

Much of the time their emotions are extreme reactions to how they perceive the world.

Our Perception "is" our reality

I mildly brought this up with a sarcastic "hope you don't look down on me" comment and she started crying.

From her perspective, she may have felt as though you were blaming her for some aspect of your choice to change careers. Heck, I would be insulted if my bf said something similar to me. I may not begin to cry hysterically, I can see how she may have taken your sarcasm as an accusation.

From what you are writing, it sounds like there is a lot of anger and frustration going on inside of you right now. This can be a normal reaction if you surpress your own needs and sacrifice too much in an effort to make someone else happy. This is why we strongly urge members to take a step back and to focus on themselves for a change. To reconnect with your own needs and wishes and desires - regardless of how your partner feels.

If you enjoy getting outside, then make the time to get outside.
If you like playing sports, then join a team.
If you have a hobby that energizes and excites you, then devote some time to it.
If you replenish your soul by just chilling and doing nothing at all, then make the time to find that peace and quiet.

Your anger and resentment - though they may be quite justified - aren't healthy. They will wind up making you ill and even more depressed, they will keep you from building the sort of closeness and love that you want, and they will slowly over time destroy your relationship... i can guarantee that.


I know this can seem daunting, especially if you fear the reaction your partner will give you if you begin to do these things.
Do them anyway!

Yes, our loved ones are mentally ill.
Yes, we need to be the more mature emotional caretakers.
That doesn't mean a life of sacrifice and servitude.

What do "YOU" want to do?

[ImTheHusband]

Much of the time their emotions are extreme reactions to how they perceive the world.

From what you are writing, it sounds like there is a lot of anger and frustration going on inside of you right now. This can be a normal reaction if you surpress your own needs and sacrifice too much in an effort to make someone else happy.

Yes.