Not sure what to make of this

[Think About It...]

I've never seen my husband cry.  Ever.  I figured it was that lack of empathy thing.  The NPD part of his BPD.

We were watching that show Secret Millionaire where a millionaire goes undercover, infiltrating a poor area of the country and searching out charities that are active.  At the end, the millionaire reveals their true identity and donate their own money to the charities that struck them as the most worthy to support.

So we are watching and the main guy on the show was losing it.  He was saying how he wasn't allowed to show his emotions while growing up but meeting people in need was breaking his heart.  My husband is wiping away tears.  It really got to him, the people going through hard times and the people that work to help.

I'm rubbing his back thinking wow, this really got to him.  I've never seen him like that.  Since I've never seen him be able to put himself in another person's shoes, it confused me.  I can imagine you all thinking, well they are people with emotions too.  I know, I know.  It's just usually his emotions are more critical of others.  Maybe he does have a heart?  Or was he 'enmeshing' with the guy on the show and sponging that person's emotions?  It was cool to know, he is capable of tears.  His stony heart has some cracks.

[Rose Tiger]

I've never seen my husband cry.  Ever.  I figured it was that lack of empathy thing.  The NPD part of his BPD.

We were watching that show Secret Millionaire where a millionaire goes undercover, infiltrating a poor area of the country and searching out charities that are active.  At the end, the millionaire reveals their true identity and donate their own money to the charities that struck them as the most worthy to support.

So we are watching and the main guy on the show was losing it.  He was saying how he wasn't allowed to show his emotions while growing up but meeting people in need was breaking his heart.  My husband is wiping away tears.  It really got to him, the people going through hard times and the people that work to help.

I'm rubbing his back thinking wow, this really got to him.  I've never seen him like that.  Since I've never seen him be able to put himself in another person's shoes, it confused me.  I can imagine you all thinking, well they are people with emotions too.  I know, I know.  It's just usually his emotions are more critical of others.  Maybe he does have a heart?  Or was he 'enmeshing' with the guy on the show and sponging that person's emotions?  It was cool to know, he is capable of tears.  His stony heart has some cracks.

[Surnia]

Hi Rose

I notice similar things with my H, who seems to be NPD. He can be sometimes emotional and near to tears, eg. when something happens with animals. (My cat killed recently young birds.)
The lack of empathy goes more to situations between people. I can use my empathy to see the other side, he not.  And he is more on/off.
The empathy of your h goes partly to himself. Which is a good sign I think..

S.

[united for now]

Sometimes you have to look at the behaviors and not their words to find the empathy hidden inside.

[Rose Tiger]

Empathy for himself...that makes sense, empathy for his real self? ...

What do you mean UFN?  Not sure how to apply that?

[united for now]

Some men are hardened by life. They don't feel it is masculine to have empathy for others. Their actions can show a different response than their words though. So ignores the tough bravado and look for what he its hiding...

[yeeter]

Well there you go then - now you know its possible and he DOES have empathy.

Positive reinforcement/validation/understanding:  "You know honey, I could tell you were really touched by that show the other night.  I have never seen you like that.  What was it about the show that made it so significant for you?"

Maybe you can learn something.  (or maybe it will trigger a defensive wall that will come up)


At the same time - it may be that the emotional turmoil of the relationship (or other things he is going through) just makes him more emotional overall.  I know this is the case for me.  I find myself showing tears much more frequently.  In part because I am emotionally spent, so things trigger easier (this can be good, this can be bad).  For sure there have been moments where something has triggered relating to the struggles of my own life (its been a long hard road...)

Nice that you noticed, and nice that you were there to share the moment.

[JimNelson89]

Rose Tiger

I find that my wife has lots of empathy.  So I don't know where this "no empathy" belief comes from.  As far as I know, from reading, only pw ASPD have no empathy.  It would be more accurate if I said my wife has an empathy blind spot, when it comes to her own pain.  She cannot see the grief she is projecting onto me.  She has brought me to tears before.

I do think we all have empathy blind spots.  It is just that hers are more blatant.

[Rose Tiger]

I dunno, he is very critical.  It's not bravado, it's plain condemnation.  I used to try to get him to have a heart, now I don't care, let him have his feelings, right?  If he thinks overweight people just need to have a little self control, let him think it.  Drivers that have a cell phone to their ear, yes, they should be shot on sight.     I know he is three times as hard on himself as he is on me and others.  Not as bad as my dad   still pretty horrendous in his evaluations.  Children that grow up with criticism, learn to condemn.

I sincerely don't see empathy.  ?

JimNelson, lack of empathy is a common theme with personality disorders.  Or so I've read.  Especially NPD.  Anti-social, too.

[amaris]

My h cries at just about everything he watches...no kidding...he even cried when watching Beauty and the Beast.  he cries at Hallmark commercials...we have to wait when we go to the movies to leave so he can gather himself before we leave...even when I found nothing emotional about the movie...then the next day he can be the harshest, cruelest man to my pain over something...he will attack me in the midst of my sorrow with the cruelest words and rages.   he will be so angry at a passing driver he will talk about putting a bullet through his head..(he is not physically violent and felt horribly guilty when he shot a deer once)...he can rage for a week and lose all perspective on reality...then, he teaches a class of men a bible study where they all think he is a wonderful man of God...I am so glad I dont have to try to understand him anymore because there is no reasoning to it at all...but I am sure in his mind it makes perfect sense...

[Rose Tiger]

That's just it Amaris, they can 'fake' it to conduct a group.  I think that ties into the intellectual side of which they are proficient.  But the intense emotion at hallmark commercials, I don't know what to make of that.  Because that seems to be connecting to 'true' feelings.  My husband is stellar at pushing feelings down into the abyss.  So far down they can't touch him.  In the meantime, I am learning how to shelf my emotions, want to rail, scream and cry but know that I can't release deep emotions to him.  Not knowing if this is how grown ups handle deep emotions, you don't unleash them on unsuspecting innocents.  Take out an ad, looking for people I can unload on...I'm sure no one would answer that!

I'm feeling unsteady holding this pot of unexpressed emotion that I can't rightfully download onto anyone, like is this how it is to be an adult?  Hold all this in with no support?  I'm not totally alone, I have my therapist that I really unload to since it's safe.

And with my husband, I am calm cool collected.  Seems an act because inside I am mad, wish to hell I could express, but I can't.  So I am lonely and depressed.

Ok, I don't have a circle of support and understand how important that is to have.  That is not my husband's fault, I am responsible for my own circle.  Anyone have some suggestions?  I can't and don't want to reach out to (dysfunctional) family and don't want to stress out innocent bystanders.

[1bravegirl]

I commend you for sharing this right now.  I know it's not easy to open up like that and express your true feelings of pain and anger and feeling like you have noone to really open up to except your T

I was there for so long and it's a very hard place to be in.  The support system is truly the key for me to get out of that place and create the other side of life that was nurturing and accepting and free to be or say anything.

We so desperately need that part in our lives so we can counteract that repressed state of holding stuff in so we don't trigger an outrage or something that they are surpressing about their own pain or feelings...

So yes, I think support groups are a great idea..  Having close friends was particularly hard while with exH due to, like you said, not wanting to burden anyone with all the poison I was feeling.

It's bad enough I had to endure it, let alone put it on someone else.
But most times when I did open up I received support.. other times, not so much.
So it truly depends on the nature of the person you open up to.  I know who I can talk to about really sensitive matters and who I can never open up to about things like that.

So, keep up the great work of personal growth and learning how to express such an important aspect of your character and who you are so you can feel good inside.. For you.. and noone else..

I'm always here for you..

Love ya.. 1bg

[Surnia]

I feel with you Rose. 

A lot of what you said could be me, no support circle in real live, a dysfunctional family. To have more support and connection in my life will be one of me goals for the next time.
Yesterday I had to tell myself: There are other things in live than my h. If I think only about this, I become very small and miserable. And without support group, good friends it is much easier to be not occupied only by him...

S.

[amaris]

I have found that having you all to compare with is immensely helpful.  I have a few supportive friends that I share with and are very sweet, but like you said you have a sense when enough is enough and they can handle no more and really don't get the craziness of this disease...Not being able ? to share ourselves, our hurts, our concerns, our pain with our h is so hard to bear...it is the reality that we choose to live our lives with someone we can never trust with our innermost selves.   It is a new kind of reality I can't fight anymore.  he is who he is...he may never change or by the grace of God come to the bottom and ask for help..tho. I have learned here that is not likely.  How can a man cry over hallmark commercials and rage at his wifes pain...when he sees me hurting he finds a reason to rage at me instead of supporting me...go figure... ?

[Dynamic]

That's just it Amaris, they can 'fake' it to conduct a group.  I think that ties into the intellectual side of which they are proficient.  But the intense emotion at hallmark commercials, I don't know what to make of that.  Because that seems to be connecting to 'true' feelings.  My husband is stellar at pushing feelings down into the abyss.  So far down they can't touch him.  In the meantime, I am learning how to shelf my emotions, want to rail, scream and cry but know that I can't release deep emotions to him.  Not knowing if this is how grown ups handle deep emotions, you don't unleash them on unsuspecting innocents.  Take out an ad, looking for people I can unload on...I'm sure no one would answer that!

I'm feeling unsteady holding this pot of unexpressed emotion that I can't rightfully download onto anyone, like is this how it is to be an adult?  Hold all this in with no support?  I'm not totally alone, I have my therapist that I really unload to since it's safe.

And with my husband, I am calm cool collected.  Seems an act because inside I am mad, wish to hell I could express, but I can't.  So I am lonely and depressed.

Ok, I don't have a circle of support and understand how important that is to have.  That is not my husband's fault, I am responsible for my own circle.  Anyone have some suggestions?  I can't and don't want to reach out to (dysfunctional) family and don't want to stress out innocent bystanders.

Rose Tiger,
I can totally understand how you feel, because I am in the same situation. Though my parents & brothers are supportive I do not want to bother them with my problems. I have friends but I cannot share the part of my life with BPD with them. I do feel lonely & sometimes depressed. But try my best to quickly come out of it. Thats what I did today morning too.

After learning about BPD & coming across this site, I am observing myself a lot. I could see how h's moods were easily upsetting me & the extent to which I am a co-dependent. Nowadays I am being mindful of that & turn my attention to something I like to do. I consciously come out of that depressed mood because you know what? Being depressed is not going to change anything. It is not the end of the world. Life goes on anyway. My friend lost her only son who was 6 months away from graduating college. Being a bright, straight A student with a job offer from the world's top company even before he graduated, her son committed suicide by putting a gun to his head for some reason. I cannot imagine the pain my friend & her h had to go through/still going through/will go through till the end. My heart goes out for them & pray for them. I am thankful for what I have.

I believe that there is a purpose for each person in this life. Sometimes I think that maybe God made me strong so I can set my h on the right path. It is said that the more faithful people are tested more so they emerge to be stronger. Yes, I am lonely with my struggles but hey everyone has problems.

Generally, I keep myself busy so that there is no time to even sit down & be depressed. I know its hard, but we have to go on. 

 

[Rose Tiger]

You all are awesome.      I don't mean to be a downer, I think holidays are stressful because it's a time of bbq's, families, that sort of thing.  I must put stress on myself thinking I must be a part of a party or something.  I don't even like parties!    I do feel sad at the lack of family during holidays.  I had one therapist tell me that holidays can be horrendous for some people having certain families that they must deal with ... so glad not to be in that boat!

I wish I had a husband that made plans like, let's go do 'something' for the holiday.  The neighbor across the street bough his family a camper last year and a boat this year.  He's a real family oriented guy and I'm jealous.  I have lots to be grateful for and you know the saying, be careful what you wish for, maybe I'd hate camping.  I wish my husband was more family oriented.  But no, he volunteered to be on call today for work so has to stay close to town.  He didn't talk to me before volunteering.  I feel that is inconsiderate.  But thems the breaks.

I am going hiking with the dog today, which I always enjoy.  So I am finding the joy in what makes me happy today.  A nice steak on the grill later.  Simple things can bring joy, too.  I'm thankful for a place like this where I can tell it like it is! 

[Rose Tiger]

I commend you for sharing this right now.  I know it's not easy to open up like that and express your true feelings of pain and anger and feeling like you have noone to really open up to except your T

I was there for so long and it's a very hard place to be in.  The support system is truly the key for me to get out of that place and create the other side of life that was nurturing and accepting and free to be or say anything.

We so desperately need that part in our lives so we can counteract that repressed state of holding stuff in so we don't trigger an outrage or something that they are surpressing about their own pain or feelings...

So yes, I think support groups are a great idea..  Having close friends was particularly hard while with exH due to, like you said, not wanting to burden anyone with all the poison I was feeling.

It's bad enough I had to endure it, let alone put it on someone else.
But most times when I did open up I received support.. other times, not so much.
So it truly depends on the nature of the person you open up to.  I know who I can talk to about really sensitive matters and who I can never open up to about things like that.

So, keep up the great work of personal growth and learning how to express such an important aspect of your character and who you are so you can feel good inside.. For you.. and noone else..

I'm always here for you..

Love ya.. 1bg

I wish you lived next door!    Thank you for your kind words. 

[Rose Tiger]

I feel with you Rose. 

A lot of what you said could be me, no support circle in real live, a dysfunctional family. To have more support and connection in my life will be one of me goals for the next time.
Yesterday I had to tell myself: There are other things in live than my h. If I think only about this, I become very small and miserable. And without support group, good friends it is much easier to be not occupied only by him...

S.

It's true the more I focus on him, the more frustrated I get, the more I want things to change that I can't control.   

[Rose Tiger]

I have found that having you all to compare with is immensely helpful.  I have a few supportive friends that I share with and are very sweet, but like you said you have a sense when enough is enough and they can handle no more and really don't get the craziness of this disease...Not being able ? to share ourselves, our hurts, our concerns, our pain with our h is so hard to bear...it is the reality that we choose to live our lives with someone we can never trust with our innermost selves.   It is a new kind of reality I can't fight anymore.  he is who he is...he may never change or by the grace of God come to the bottom and ask for help..tho. I have learned here that is not likely.  How can a man cry over hallmark commercials and rage at his wifes pain...when he sees me hurting he finds a reason to rage at me instead of supporting me...go figure... ?

I don't get it either, to be able to recognize hurting people in a commercial and then not see it with us.   ?  I'm glad you have some supportive friends, that is a wonderful and must be a great break from stress.   

[Rose Tiger]

That's just it Amaris, they can 'fake' it to conduct a group.  I think that ties into the intellectual side of which they are proficient.  But the intense emotion at hallmark commercials, I don't know what to make of that.  Because that seems to be connecting to 'true' feelings.  My husband is stellar at pushing feelings down into the abyss.  So far down they can't touch him.  In the meantime, I am learning how to shelf my emotions, want to rail, scream and cry but know that I can't release deep emotions to him.  Not knowing if this is how grown ups handle deep emotions, you don't unleash them on unsuspecting innocents.  Take out an ad, looking for people I can unload on...I'm sure no one would answer that!

I'm feeling unsteady holding this pot of unexpressed emotion that I can't rightfully download onto anyone, like is this how it is to be an adult?  Hold all this in with no support?  I'm not totally alone, I have my therapist that I really unload to since it's safe.

And with my husband, I am calm cool collected.  Seems an act because inside I am mad, wish to hell I could express, but I can't.  So I am lonely and depressed.

Ok, I don't have a circle of support and understand how important that is to have.  That is not my husband's fault, I am responsible for my own circle.  Anyone have some suggestions?  I can't and don't want to reach out to (dysfunctional) family and don't want to stress out innocent bystanders.

Rose Tiger,
I can totally understand how you feel, because I am in the same situation. Though my parents & brothers are supportive I do not want to bother them with my problems. I have friends but I cannot share the part of my life with BPD with them. I do feel lonely & sometimes depressed. But try my best to quickly come out of it. Thats what I did today morning too.

After learning about BPD & coming across this site, I am observing myself a lot. I could see how h's moods were easily upsetting me & the extent to which I am a co-dependent. Nowadays I am being mindful of that & turn my attention to something I like to do. I consciously come out of that depressed mood because you know what? Being depressed is not going to change anything. It is not the end of the world. Life goes on anyway. My friend lost her only son who was 6 months away from graduating college. Being a bright, straight A student with a job offer from the world's top company even before he graduated, her son committed suicide by putting a gun to his head for some reason. I cannot imagine the pain my friend & her h had to go through/still going through/will go through till the end. My heart goes out for them & pray for them. I am thankful for what I have.

I believe that there is a purpose for each person in this life. Sometimes I think that maybe God made me strong so I can set my h on the right path. It is said that the more faithful people are tested more so they emerge to be stronger. Yes, I am lonely with my struggles but hey everyone has problems.

Generally, I keep myself busy so that there is no time to even sit down & be depressed. I know its hard, but we have to go on. 

 

Your poor friend, that is horrible.     I think you are right, about finding things to enjoy and get busy.  No one can do this for me, this is something I have to do for myself. 

[Dynamic]

Rose Tiger,
Last year, both my sons 24 & 17 made a miraculous escape from a car accident. Had it been on a weekday during peak hours, it would not have been possible. My h & I were shocked to the core. So I am thankful for what I have & that it is not worse. It is bad but there are some things that we have been provided for, that we should be thankful for.

Hope you enjoyed the hike & the steak.