dealing with jealousy

[Think About It...]

Me and my UstbxBPDh had agreed on a time-out in separate apartments but he got involved with someone a few weeks before my new apartment was even ready. I couldn't take this any more and I decided that if he was giving me that clear sign that he was moving on so would I: I moved out and asked for a separation.

He even went on vacation with her (that he had me plan making me believe he would go with a male friend) and according to him it was wonderful while he has made every vacation with me in the last 2 years a living hell. This made me very jealous and because I have been wanting that for myself so badly. He has repeatedly told me how successful, sweet and cute she is, attentive towards his needs, listening to him, eager to please him, fun to hang out with and amazing in bed. According to him, I lack all those qualities. I know it is the illness talking but still it just hurts to know that the person you loved thinks so little of you.

The rational part of my brain tells me that soon the idolizing of that other women will turn into the same reproachful and irrational behavior he shows towards me. But there is also my broken heart that fears that  she really CAN make him happy and I am the failure. How do you deal with such emotions?

I am also seriously angry at her for not respecting the bond of our marriage. It is so disrespectful and causes so much pain. I know he is the one who hurt me but still I can't get over my anger at her. He sweeps her with attention and care while I was never good enough for anything in the last few years. On the other hand I also think that she has no idea what she has signed up for and will soon learn her lesson, too, which at the moment is somewhat of a comfort.

So what do you recommend to not get tangled up too much in jealousy and projected anger?

[gulli]

Me and my UstbxBPDh had agreed on a time-out in separate apartments but he got involved with someone a few weeks before my new apartment was even ready. I couldn't take this any more and I decided that if he was giving me that clear sign that he was moving on so would I: I moved out and asked for a separation.

He even went on vacation with her (that he had me plan making me believe he would go with a male friend) and according to him it was wonderful while he has made every vacation with me in the last 2 years a living hell. This made me very jealous and because I have been wanting that for myself so badly. He has repeatedly told me how successful, sweet and cute she is, attentive towards his needs, listening to him, eager to please him, fun to hang out with and amazing in bed. According to him, I lack all those qualities. I know it is the illness talking but still it just hurts to know that the person you loved thinks so little of you.

The rational part of my brain tells me that soon the idolizing of that other women will turn into the same reproachful and irrational behavior he shows towards me. But there is also my broken heart that fears that  she really CAN make him happy and I am the failure. How do you deal with such emotions?

I am also seriously angry at her for not respecting the bond of our marriage. It is so disrespectful and causes so much pain. I know he is the one who hurt me but still I can't get over my anger at her. He sweeps her with attention and care while I was never good enough for anything in the last few years. On the other hand I also think that she has no idea what she has signed up for and will soon learn her lesson, too, which at the moment is somewhat of a comfort.

So what do you recommend to not get tangled up too much in jealousy and projected anger?

[Want2know]

The rational part of my brain tells me that soon the idolizing of that other women will turn into the same reproachful and irrational behavior he shows towards me. But there is also my broken heart that fears that  she really CAN make him happy and I am the failure. How do you deal with such emotions?

So what do you recommend to not get tangled up too much in jealousy and projected anger?

You are correct to assume that he will start to show his irrational behavior to the new woman.  Eventually, I actually felt sorry for these new women (regarding my ex), however, this is all too new and your emotions are probably very raw right now.  My guess is that she cannot make him happy.  You know happiness comes from within, and pwBPD are so conflicted that happiness does not come easily (or without a lot of solid therapy).

How you deal with your emotions is you allow yourself to feel them, explore the root causes, and then take some action to work through them.  If you take a look at the "Lessons" on this board, you will see a few very pertinent items regarding your emotions right now.  Specifically, The Five Stages of Detachment, and the Grieving process (see Lesson 1 in particular):  Leaving Lessons

Let me know if this is helpful and how you might apply this to what you are feeling. 

[draft]

Dear Guera,

Perhaps you're not paying attention to yourself and your wellbeing?

It's sad that his irrational behavior is getting under your skin. What makes you think that their "sweet trip" was so sweet? After all, this other girl might fall for his games for now but she's getting a can of worms and it WILL open.

I'm going to stretch myself here a bit and say that you might not have accepted him for who he is? If he after all has BPD, then this is truly who he is. You can't expect common decency from him. You might as well wish for flying pigs.

I know it's really hard to accept. Especially if you've put a lot of effort in to it, because you probably had expectations. It's like bad investments.

Please let us know what you do for yourself and how you take care of your precious time. What have you done to invest in yourself?

[forgottenarm]

He's using this new r/s as a way to gain leverage with you---he's triangulating (read definition).  Otherwise, he wouldn't be telling you all that stuff.  On some level, it doesn't matter what their reality is or what it will be.  What he's doing is using her to make you feel bad.  Don't let him.

And btw, I agree with you completely about this woman's lack of respect.  She may be operating on lies and distortions he's told her, but still, she's clearly not thinking straight.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[redberry]

I agree with the others, Guera.  It is disgusting the way he replaced you with someone else for a trip that you planned!  Allow yourself to feel the pain and anger of that, but understand that he is seriously mentally ill--like the people who walk around in the park mumbling to themselves, it's just that his is extremely well-hidden.  Though, make no mistake, his mental illness is just as real and destructive.

There is also a good chance that she was told that he was single and ready to mingle.  These people groom their victims with the same sick precision that a child molester does.  By the time he reeled her in, she was probably good and hooked.  Not to say she doesn't play a role here, but I would wager she was lied to in every way you can imagine.  These people are masters at it.

As for the jealousy...  I combat jealousy by piling on facts.  You know that trips you took with him were miserable--most of us had the same experiences.  This trip would have been miserable, too.  Okay, so he is going with someone else.  Maybe since its the first one and he has a brand new mask to try out, it'll be an okay trip for her, if he is in full idealization mode and doesn't get out of it.  But you know how much of a "flip of the switch" it is with these people.  Even if something is good, it can turn into hell in the blink of an eye.  Try to see this trip for what it is.  I don't know if they're taking a cruise, but I seriously doubt this is going to be her love boat!  More like planning a trip on the beautiful Titanic.

More facts...  And let's say, by some small chance, the trip does go very well.  That's just a few days of (unhealthy) bliss.  What comes afterward?  You know how this movie ends.  The trip may well be the most amazing first night at sea, but there are storms ahead and their vessel is heading straight for the iceberg.  In time, she'll be doing well to barely keep her head above water.

You know he is going to eventually callously replace her like he replaced you, and she may even face more pain and suffering when it happens, particularly if the relationship lasts a long time.  Along the way, she'll experience the ride from hell...  There is a very high chance she could end up broke, deeply depressed, losing the support of friends and family, cheated on.  You name it!  Regardless, the man she is with now is has a crippling mental illness that guarantees a life full of pain, misery, and suffering for himself and everyone around him--that only gets more dire as time goes on.

Now, what exactly are you jealous of, again?   . I think you dodged a bullet!

[gulli]

Dear Redberry, I like your dark sense of humor, you actually made me smile with your post - and you totally nail the truth. I have spent the last few days reading and educating myself about personality disorders and here in the forum  I have come across the article about the "Loser" by Dr. Carver (http://www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/IdentifyingLosers.html). 17 out of the 20 points are an exact description of my husbands behavior. I have compared it to other people I know and can usually match either none or at max. one point. That is how sick he is in comparison to normal people.
During the last few days my jealousy has completely turned into pity. I still care for him and wish him well, I wish I could do something to make him better. But I am also accepting that I absolutely CANNOT do that.
You are right, this woman is totally sailing towards the iceberg and who knows what lies he has told her to make her come onboard. She might actually help me to get out of this relationship easier because he has a distraction, so in a way I could almost be grateful. Because the more I educate myself the more I know I never wanna go back to this. My goal is healing and moving on to a brighter future.

Thank you all for your support. Each of your messages has really made a difference for me.

[backup]

After all, this other girl might fall for his games for now but she's getting a can of worms and it WILL open.

I'm going to stretch myself here a bit and say that you might not have accepted him for who he is? If he after all has BPD, then this is truly who he is. You can't expect common decency from him. You might as well wish for flying pigs.

Thank you so much. I really needed to hear this today.

[jb1]

I know you've gotten a lot of replies regarding dodging the bullet and that this girl will see him for what he is eventually, and that you should focus on you and they're all right. However I would just like to tell you that I know the pain you're going through and I know how it just doesn't seem to end. The thought of them  with someone else is agonizing and your skin feels like its on fire. I live this every day. I try to detatch myself but how? I know the new relationship will blow up but that brings me little comfort for the moment. So how can we soothe this pain until time heals our hearts? Here is my advise to you: 1. Stay away from booze. 2. If you have a church near you go and pray. Then when you feel like you've built back a little of you self esteem and have come to terms with it go ahead and make that appointment with a therapist. It sucks worse than anything I've ever had to do but I'm doing it and i look forward to the day when I can be in a healthy relationship. I wish they had a forem on here so you could actually date someone else who's been through this cuz sometimes I feel like my next girlfriend will never believe me.

[gulli]

I am already seeing a therapist and the break-up and how to deal with it will be the focus of our next sessions. I have found that at the moment it helps me to research, look at the situation from a scientific point of view rather than an emotional one. In order to heal these two will have to merge eventually but I am working on that. It helps me to talk to my family and friends. A friend of mine is a social worker and deals with BPDs professionally so she can really relate. So can my sister. A support system is invaluable. I think dating someone who has gone through the same would almost be scary, it would be a new form of codependency I believe, but making friends with someone from a support group or so would be nice to share the pain.

[jb1]

I understand about the network of support. I have little or no physical human beings to lean on. This site has been my support. You are obviously way ahead of my situation. I've just made my first appointment with a therapist but won't see them until the 19th. I don't know that I agree with dating another non being another form of co-dependence. I would see it more as a bond similar to that of veterans of a war. In either case you definitely have my sympathy and best wishes.

[gulli]

Dear jb1

Veterans of war: i like that!  civil war that didn't end civil at all.
Don't be afraid of your appointment with a therapist. It might be a bit awkward in the beginning talking about personal stuff to a stranger but it is really so helpful to just spill it all out and have somebody help you make sense of the mess and find ways to cope. Maybe he/she can also suggest a support group or other activities where you can find people that can relate. Borderline is a fairly common mental disorder, there are more people out there that have gone through exactly the same thing as we have than we would ever believe. I wish you lots of strength and courage.

[C12P21]

Dear Guera,
I wish I could send you sage advice that would take away your pain right now. There is no such advice, as the end of a marriage, even an unhealthy one, is never easy. You are going through a normal process of grief, one of the hydra's you will slay in the process is the ugly head of jealousy. Of course you feel jealous, you lived with your beloved for how many years and in the end the relationship unraveled in an ugly manner. When someone is emotionally abusive to you, you begin to doubt yourself and your perceptions, you begin to question your value as a human being and much of your time can be spent trying to please your partner in order to recapture the idealization stage; it never lasts. The push/pull is exhausting and a lesson in futility, the hope before disappointment and frustration set-in as once again, your best efforts are thwarted.

I couldn't take this any more and I decided that if he was giving me that clear sign that he was moving on so would I: I moved out and asked for a separation.

You are so healthy to have established a boundary with him. He gave you more than a clear sign, he showed you he is a liar and a manipulator. You are letting him know, you take his infidelity seriously and will not tolerate such disrespect. Whatever he is going through, infidelity is not the answer or solution to marital problems. A time out to regroup and think about what to do is not a green light to infidelity. The guy OBVIOUSLY cannot handle being alone.

according to him it was wonderful while he has made every vacation with me in the last 2 years a living hell. This made me very jealous and because I have been wanting that for myself so badly

Yes, this is the hallmark of their behavior, they undermine happy moments due to their inner misery and then blame you for their unhappiness. Sadly, you take the responsibility for their happiness and when it erodes, as it will, overtime, you think somehow it is attributed to you. But is it? What did you do that was so cumbersome on a vacation that he was miserable? Was it really your fault?
Right now, your emotions are raw and your insecurities about yourself will arise to greet your conscious mind like a tidal wave..and this is normal.
Grief takes time, it is raw, it is heinous, it is the plague...and you will get through it because you are a strong woman.
What helped me get through my divorce and a relationship with a narcissist is two books, I wish I had read this one first. I think the title is "Healing From Abandonment Trauma", or something like this. Look up Abandonment Trauma and it will explain what you mind and body are going through. The next book I read is Lundy Bancroft "Why Does He Do That:Inside the Mind of Angry and Controlling Men", it opened my eyes to understand that although abuse comes in many forms, it is abuse and has devastating consequences for the abusers victims.

He has repeatedly told me how successful, sweet and cute she is, attentive towards his needs, listening to him, eager to please him, fun to hang out with and amazing in bed. According to him, I lack all those qualities

.
You were all those things in the beginning too, right? He is actually projecting his issue, that he lacks those qualities, so he is looking for them in someone else. Eventually, over-time, as he drains the life force out of her with his soul sucking negative energy, and she becomes tired and depleted..she too be viewed as lacking.

I know it is the illness talking

It is an abuser talking. His abuse is hurting you. Please give yourself permission to hold him accountable to his abuse of you and that you do not have to excuse it due to his disorder. His confessionals has a consequence for you, it is the experience of jealousy and emotional pain. Yes, he is disordered and in his emotional disturbance/mental illness he is mentally abusing you. I know how difficult it is to stop the conversation, stop the interactions because it is like watching a train wreck heading toward you and you are standing their blind sighted, motionless, horrified in the spot as this THING is headed your way and before it didn't look like a train, it was your husband standing at the door, holding roses toward you and somehow he turned into this...something other. For awhile you will be rooted in the spot but eventually you will realize to jump out of the way in order to save yourself.

but still it just hurts to know that the person you loved thinks so little of you.

Yes, it does. It hurts beyond description and disbelief. Someone on this site once stated "the one you would take a bullet for, is the one pulling the trigger"  and he knows this without a shadow of a doubt and to ensure he feeds his depleted ego, he will state whatever comes to mind to hurt you further because he gains a sense of power when he does. That's what abusers do, pull the rug and watch you fall. As you fall, crying, weeping and grieving, they will then state silly things such as "you are so emotional, what's wrong with you, get a grip" because it is a water torture test..how slowly can they erode your self esteem, until you crack and fall apart. Then, piously, they sit back and point a finger and say "look at this, she is crazy I tell you" and what you really are, is suffering from a broken heart.
It hurts to know the person you love is capable of hurting you, it hurts to know they would want to and the hardest part for you is to realize HE has a problem and the best thing you can do is focus on how you are going to guard your heart from this man..and protect yourself emotionally and mentally.
This other woman is an object, nothing more than something he masturbates into for his own relief, he does not see her, he cannot articulate anything about her other than how she makes him "feel", it is all about him.
Take care of yourself.   Try to remember, he is disordered and there is nothing you can do. You can however, look in the mirror and love on you, turn all your worry and concern back to you.
C

[jb1]

One other thing I would like to add after reading this and participating in this thread is that our experiences have nothing to do with our gender.  The consequences to the non are the same and the behaviors of the BPD are also the same.

[redfeather]

The jealousy you feel is quite normal but the only way to stop that from hurting you is to stop listening to his sales job about how this woman is the bestand you were sh-t. Because that is far from the truth!
 No way possible this new woman is going to miss out on the Hater phase and the devaluation that comes along with it.. No way in the world.
Feel these uncomfortable feelings now they are temporary.
One day you will see that she nor any woman that comes after have not inherited a prize. Take care of you. Hi!

[gulli]

Dear C12P21

Your post has really helped me, thank you.

I couldn't find the book about Abandonment trauma, do you happen to remember the author? It sounds like a worthwhile read.

You know, I am still having a hard time admitting that I was ABUSED. Not so much the fact that it happened but that I LET it happen. I am really struggling with the notion that I was the one that permitted it as I have always viewed myself as a strong and independent woman. But I also do realize that those qualities have been strategically undermined by my husband. You are also right that everything is about him, the way others make him feel, never about them as a person with their own values. At the moment my jealousy has turned into some form of pity for him and his gf, they are heading for a hell of a bumpy ride.

I am so grateful about everything I am learning here in the forum and all the solidarity and warmth that I am offered by all of you. I take deep comfort from that. Thank you from my heart.

[redberry]

Guera, this quote by C12P21 is so right on...

This other woman is an object, nothing more than something he masturbates into for his own relief, he does not see her, he cannot articulate anything about her other than how she makes him "feel", it is all about him.

This really hit a nerve with me, it is very descriptive but so true.  Let me give an example... I love painting, I go to painting meetups, etc.  It is a big part of my life.  While we were dating, if you asked my ex who my favorite artist was, or which of my paintings were my favorite, or to name one member of my painting group, he couldn't do it. He couldn't tell you anything of any substance about my favorite hobby.  I bet he couldn't provide more than 15 seconds worth of information about it.  He never asked me questions about any of it, or showed a genuine interest.  At best, he (unsuccessfully) tried to mask his annoyance because it took up some of my time and kept me away from him for a few hours.  They really do not care about us as individuals, it is only about how we make them feel.  There is no healthy relationship in that.  I may as well have been a blow up doll!

I know that is hard to hear, but the more you can accept that fact, I think the more you can grow past this unfortunate relationship.  Also, take some comfort in the fact that the other woman is getting no more depth, and will experience the exact same fate.  You may feel like your plane has crashed, but you survived and are in good shape.  You have life ahead of you.  She is just now boarding the same plane, she will crash too.  These planes are defective.

[gulli]

Dear redberry

You know, what you just told me really rings a bell. I studied interior design and I love art, architecture, decorating etc. My design projects in school were majorly important for my degree and extremely time-consuming. Whenever I talked about them, I felt like I was downright boring him, so I stopped talking about them entirely. At that time, I did not have time for hobbies besides school because it was so time-consuming. So imagine, there was not much left to talk about after all and you know what he said: that it was always about school, school school, that I had become boring and that I had no interest in HIM. You are so right, BPDs totally fail to see the person in you, they just see you as an object to fulfill their needs. That's a revelation hard to accept, but accept it we must.

A blow-up doll wouldn't have worked though, they cannot be manipulated.    And I think manipulation is very essential for them. They need to drain energy, time, dedication, life-force from you, otherwise you are of no use to them. The incredible thing is just how in the beginning of the relationship they are able to make you feel so valued and valuable. We would talk on the phone for hours and I felt that he really listened and understood me. How wrong I was. It still amazes me how somebody can fake interest in you and seem so genuine by it. All my friends adored him when they first met him except for my sister, she could never be fooled and he started avoiding her very quickly then started to sabotage my relationship with her, but luckily he didn't know how strong real sisterhood is. She just waited for me to understand what she has realized a long time ago and now she is my biggest support. So here's a big thank you to her. 

[C12P21]

The Journey from Abandonment to Healing: Turn the End of a Relationship into the Beginning of a New Life [Paperback]
Susan Anderson (Author)
I wished I had read this book first as it clearly explains the physiological responses the body goes through during emotionally traumatic events. Had I read this book, I would have understood what was happening to me and not felt so scared for my mental health.
I feel for you, I know it hurts.
You know, the thing about abuse is this-had they shown their true colors fairly clear early on, you would have run from this man, not walked up the aisle.
However, there is a relationship dynamic at play and the real tough work will be figuring out that dynamic. Mental and emotional abuse is insidious because it is never as clear as physical abuse and you have to unwind the strings and figure out what happened.  As much as you are in shock about the end..or struggle with acceptance, the major work is figuring out your self worth and what you want.
Take care,
C

[patientandclear]

All my friends adored him when they first met him except for my sister, she could never be fooled and he started avoiding her very quickly then started to sabotage my relationship with her, but luckily he didn't know how strong real sisterhood is. She just waited for me to understand what she has realized a long time ago and now she is my biggest support. So here's a big thank you to her. 

I have a sister like that.  My ex ditched me the week before he was supposed to meet my family for the first time, so never met her, and I never got a chance to get her read on this incredible relationship of mine, but she was always dead on in the past.  Funny thing -- when I ended contact & he was looking for a way around that, both times he contacted me, it was this very solicitous inquiry about my sister's health (she is quite ill).  Fake caring that serves a purpose.  I think he thought he had a sore spot to push that I would have to respond to.  But because this was my sister, whom he had chosen never to know, for the first time his fake caring overture rang hollow.  Made it easier to ignore.

Let's hear it for wise sisters.

[suz124w]

Guera, Patient and clear,

Yay "We are family, I got all my sisters in me...".

The same applies to me.  My sister has always been spot on.  I used to say 'she sees things in black and white' but I take that back as now after my exBPD experience, I know what that phrase REALLY means!

My sister was right about my exh when he was having a relationship behind my back and she said "He's up to something!".  Then, when she met my ex a couple of times, she said "not quite right, something wrong with him, not good enough". Thereafter she despised him and wouldn't come to my house if he was there which made things difficult as I really love and value my sister.  I had to go down to her house to see her and not speak about him.  She would refer to his as "scum of the Earth".

The irony is I was deep in denial on both occasions and stayed on for shovelfuls of abuse which was very damaging for me.  I thought the end was bad with exh until the end with exBPD.  Ouch!  At least I can SPEAK to the exh and be relatively friendly (keeping a close eye on my boundaries now, mind you).  I don't think I can contemplate a time when I will ever want to speak to exBPD.  It's much, much too dangerous and I want to stay well clear.  NC which started off as a kind of penance really has worked absolute wonders and I'm so grateful to the people on this board for advocating it.

By the way, my sister said so all along...