How did you overcome issues of infidelity?

[Think About It...]

It has been relatively recently that there IS hope, there IS therapy and there IS reason to feel that those with BPD can be helped and healed.

Steph  Hi!,

Can I just ask you did you have to overcome any issues of infidelity, emotional or physical in your relationship?

Do you think if cheating is involved it is less likely for someone to change?

Thanks

[sm15000]

It has been relatively recently that there IS hope, there IS therapy and there IS reason to feel that those with BPD can be helped and healed.

Steph  Hi!,

Can I just ask you did you have to overcome any issues of infidelity, emotional or physical in your relationship?

Do you think if cheating is involved it is less likely for someone to change?

Thanks

[refuge]

i know they aren't all the same,but i got over it after realizing she screwed just about anything that moves for no other reason than she could. I became numb, so it was like she wasn't even really doing it!  just kidding...sort of

[united for now]

Repairing a relationship after trust had been broken by infidelity requires the help of a professional. If done properly, yes, change and healing are possible.

Trying to do it yourself?
I would have to vote "no".

What's brought this thought up?

[MaybeSo]

Steph I'm sure will jump in here, but I can say that I asked her the very same question about two years ago. Steph's husband did not have issues with cheating. My ex did, lots of triangles and emotional affairs. I think there was some discussion that if cheating or attention seeking is really pronounced, that it would likely further complicate the treatment outcome. It certainly did in my case. He never stopped that behavior even after 7 years of therapy. And I tended to have a very low tolerance for that kind of thing.

[Steph]

 Here I am...

  As mentioned, there was no cheating in our marriage.

I also have a low tolerance for that stuff, and that would have broken my boundary and would have ended us. I have broken off relationships in the distant pass for that stuff, as well.

  We know that cheating is not a requirement for BPD and we know that it is a choice someone makes ( while people in manic or psychotic states have perhaps no control, people with BPD and other PDs Do have control)

 So, as UFN is asking...why are you asking?


Steph

[rock and a hardplace]

I dont know how to answer your question as infidelity has been the biggest thing wrong in my relationship or atleast that i suspect it. And it has been the most painful thing also. I feel i wouldnt have alot to complain about and could tolerate alot of things if i didnt have to deal with infidelity. If someone could go into a little bit of detail about  how to over come this it would be greatly appreciated? thanks and good luck to you. Know ur not alone in this.

[Steph]

 How do you overcome infidelity? Not sure what you are asking.


You cant stop the other person from doing what they are doing, but you can stop allowing yourself to be hurt by it by either learning to accept it as part of life, or setting boundaries on what you will accept, and then following thru.


Steph

[sm15000]

So, as UFN is asking...why are you asking?
Steph

I don't know really  . . .I think I'm having a patch of feeling - could I have done more?  Yours is one of the few success stories on here and I wondered if this was something that you had to overcome and change too.  My story sounds more like MaybeSo's. . .with issues of physical & emotional cheating.

I can't say I know for sure (as my ex has never given me any answers) but I strongly feel there was a substantial number of years my ex wasn't cheating.  I read recently that to avoid abandonment depression BPDs can dysregulate to a borderline psychotic state and act out (alcohol,drugs, sex etc) as an attempt to avoid this.  Is it a choice then? 

Not that it will make any difference as one of my boundaries was - I had to have the truth - and that never happened.

 ?. . .thanks for just letting me vent

[sm15000]

I dont know how to answer your question as infidelity has been the biggest thing wrong in my relationship or atleast that i suspect it. And it has been the most painful thing also. I feel i wouldnt have alot to complain about and could tolerate alot of things if i didnt have to deal with infidelity. If someone could go into a little bit of detail about  how to over come this it would be greatly appreciated? thanks and good luck to you. Know ur not alone in this.

Hi,
I know the pain at having to live with suspected infidelity. . .to me it was worse than actually knowing there WAS infidelity.  That is what drove me to end the r/s. . .and why I know I can't go back.  It was also the thing that brought out my ex's other side. . .and I don't think it's a very nice one, in fact I think it points to a seriously bad mindset about women.

I relate to you saying that otherwise you think you could cope with a lot of the behaviours.  My ex never raged, sulked, wasn't violent, seemed pretty emotionally steady actually but god knows what was going on underneath.

I wish you well 

[refuge]

i made a joke earlier (although its all true),but if I were you I would take a close look at what kind of family life this person had as a child. chances are good whatever happened THEN, is being played out over and over  now.

[MaybeSo]

If you're living with someone, it's usually pretty easy to tell or sense they are being unfaithful or that something in that area is askew. No one hides that kind of truth very well. Its hard to be completely in the dark unless we want to be. Certain details we may never know, but people usually "know".

[kyle2oo7]

So, as UFN is asking...why are you asking?
Steph

I I read recently that to avoid abandonment depression BPDs can dysregulate to a borderline psychotic state and act out (alcohol,drugs, sex etc) as an attempt to avoid this.

Wow this sounds EXACTLY what my ex is doing... can you elaborate more on this or inform me of the source so I can do more research?

[baconninja]

No one hides that kind of truth very well.

I dunno about that. I married a BPD who majored in theatre and is a very fragmented "person". Besides those other selves "not being him" (which i dont believe, btw), some people can convince themselves of anything, and then they are essentially telling you the "truth".

Would be nice if all those fragmented selves could form a coherent whole, but then he'd have to take ownership of them, wouldn't he?

[sm15000]

Wow this sounds EXACTLY what my ex is doing... can you elaborate more on this or inform me of the source so I can do more research?

I've read it in a few places - I think Masterson talks about it.  This article touches on it in some places


http://www.primals.org/articles/hannig03.html

[MaybeSo]

I dunno about that. I married a BPD who majored in theatre and is a very fragmented "person". Besides those other selves "not being him" (which i dont believe, btw), some people can convince themselves of anything, and then they are essentially telling you the "truth".

Would be nice if all those fragmented selves could form a coherent whole, but then he'd have to take ownership of them, wouldn't he?

Yes, it would be nice if they could integrate the fragmented parts. Everyone is different, and my ex was npd/BPD,  but I do think most people have a sixth sense when something like fidelity is askew in an intimate relationship. My ex was fragmented but that fragmentation had consequences that were fairly obvious, at least it was to me.  It was obvious when he was awash in an emotional affair with another woman.  He always just called them 'friends' but it was more. My ex has considerable acting skills, but I don't think he felt the need to put on an act for me, rather, I think he felt very entitled to his crushes on his 'freinds'.  His tone and temperment toward me, and his children, always took a complete nose-dive when he was feeling 'in love' or crushing on someone else.  I know what it looks like and feels like when he's idealizing a woman, having been idealized myself.  He engages in the fantasy that this new woman is 'the one' and whoever he is with currently is seen as a drag or an obsticle to his true happiness and gets treated accordingly. This may be more NPD than BPD.  He did this in cycles that became predictable.  He was mean when he had a crush on someone else, and our home life was palpably different when he was nursing a crush or having an emotional affair with another woman.  I don't think he was sleeping with them, either. The fantasy is what fueled the whole thing. Sex was beside the point.

[sm15000]

It was obvious when he was awash in an emotional affair with another woman.  He always just called them 'friends' but it was more. My ex has considerable acting skills, but I don't think he felt the need to put on an act for me, rather, I think he felt very entitled to his crushes on his 'freinds'.  His tone and temperment toward me, and his children, always took a complete nose-dive when he was feeling 'in love' or crushing on someone else.  I know what it looks like and feels like when he's idealizing a woman, having been idealized myself.  He engages in the fantasy that this new woman is 'the one' and whoever he is with currently is seen as a drag or an obsticle to his true happiness and gets treated accordingly. This may be more NPD than BPD.  He did this in cycles that became predictable.  He was mean when he had a crush on someone else, and our home life was palpably different when he was nursing a crush or having an emotional affair with another woman.  I don't think he was sleeping with them, either. The fantasy is what fueled the whole thing. Sex was beside the point.

I recognise this too.  When we started our relationship, it was very casual on both sides and I was aware there were more women in the picture than me.  I found out at the end he was seeing 6 other women and this went on for a number of years. . .I wouldn't have guessed that - he managed that very well    As our relationship went on (and I guess he started idealising me) it felt like we were very much in love and I think there was a long period of fidelity. . .nothing then made me suspect otherwise so if he was involved elsewhere he really can act  ?

Towards the end I saw and felt exactly what is described above. . .I became a drag, he started to avoid me, our sex life became different and he showed me none of the attentiveness and consideration he had for so long.  I think he was getting physically involved with some.  There was obviously a dilemma going on in his head - he called me his 'best bet'. . .I think he felt differently about me but had the intention of trying to carry on because I was a security but doing what he pleased elsewhere.  I also think he felt entitled to this. . .at the end I was told "who was I to make the rules in our relationship"

As is so often posted all this was also combined with hints at marriage, talking about the future.  There were days when he would declare "he would never put me through this again", "he would try to be a better man", "our love was real" etc etc. . .that's the real crazy making stuff  ;p

[MaybeSo]

Oh my. It sounds like we were with the exact same man!

As Steph indicates, this behavior  is not a requirement of BPD. Her husband didn't do all this gamey stuff. For me, it was this behavior that was unsustainable.

So, yes, this Is absolute crazy making. I'm so happy to not have this be a part of my life anymore!  I would never put myself through this kind of experience ever again.

Btw, my ex has been in therapy for 7 years now and was in therapy  the whole 5 years I was with him, and it helped in some areas, but it never stopped this gamey stuff concerning women. In fact he now sees two different female therapists, so even in therapy his inability to committ comes through loud and clear!

[gina louise]

Maybeso ,
I related to every word you posted about your ex having to have those infatuations on other women and then treating you differently, in subtle and not so subtle ways.
I got/get the same thing. he's glowing and sparkly after NA fellowship with women hugging him and chatting him up. like it super charges him. he loves it. He comes home from work happy and excited.
Suddenly I am a drag. A downer.

I believe he's doing the same thing with new female co-workers. He's going out to lunch quite a bit-but very very careful not to reveal any details to me.
he hits on them in e-mails, linkedin...etc. telling them he likes their smile, they are cute...etc. they are  25-30 years younger ! SO yeah, they are cute.

right now he's saying *all the right things* to me-not to raise my suspicions. telling me I look great, my hair is great, everything's just GREAT.     that alone is a flag!

At home we rarely sit down and eat a meal together as he's had too much for lunch. He's tired. He's a slob when he does go out with me-but sharp for work. He's out the door an hour earlier than necessary-to get to work early, but he does come home early. I just wonder about the 2 hour lunches...

It's not just me (the wife) as the only obstacle now...it's his financial situation, his place of residence(a nice home, but older and not upscale enough) the very city he lives in! it often ALL wrong.
GL

[artman.1]

I have been married for 44 years, and about two years after we married, my UBPDW stopped her Intimacy part of the RS.  She continued to allow my half, including sex.  I did not suspect infidelity at the time.  I learned right after our wedding from her two sisters, that she had cheated on me during our engagement two weeks before our wedding.  At the time I did not believe them.  Some time during the seventh year of our marriage, her younger Sister was getting a Divorce, and my Wife, and her girl friends began hanging out with her sister at local dance clubs and I knew she was cheating with someone.  I followed her one night, and later saw her making it with some guy in our car.  My wife filed for Divorce, and I was served, and fought it because we had three little boys 3, 4, & 5 years old.  I asked the court to insist on Marriage Counceling.  The councelor frightened my UBPDW with reality, and soon after her sister got the divorce, and had nowhere to go and no money.  My wife had a party at our home while I was away working overtime, and when I got home, I found we had been robbed of all our sterio gear.  All I could tell, was while she was in the bedroom, someone took the stuff.  I allowed her sister to stay with us.  Within two days my wife was fighting with her sister and wanted to reconcile.  We reconciled, and soon after, I moved my family 1500 miles north.  Things went OK for the next couple years, and then she stopped all Intimacy altogether.  For the last 35 years or so, she has not even allowed us to hold hands. 
     Now with my story out, I have been working on myself in recovery from codependence, and stopped worrying about her past cheating.  She started recently, idolizing her girl friends husband, and I hurt a little, but decided that I cannot worry about her behavior, and it will not harm me since we have no intimacy.  I have finally begun thinking that I love myself enough to stand up for my rights, and have made plans to separate after retirement at the end of this year.
     I will NEVER totally get over the pain of infidelity.  This has resulted in deep resentment that I packed away where I have packed all the other bad feelings and emotions from disfunctional relationships over my life.  My father was an alcoholic, and verbally abused my Mother over my childhood.  I learned that relationships were like that, and I had the same with my life and marriage.  I have never cheated, and believe there is no excuses to accept this behaviors.  There is no worse hurt and associated pain than infidelity of your marriage partner.

Art

[gina louise]

just curious, did any of you take steps to uncover the cheating? like hire a PI or put a GPS thing on the phone? did you check cell phone bills or the PC?

I don't have access to his e-mail and now he's recently(two weeks) been guarding his phone-takes it to the bathroom etc.

My H will never reveal to me if he's having an affair. he denies everything. he's mr perfect!

He had at least one EA (that probably went physical too) and others that came close since we have been together(3 years)...but he will never ever tell the truth about it.

GL

[trevy32]

interesting thread!  My  ex bf (uBPD/npd) cheated on me for the last 6 months of our r/s and I KNEW something was going on, and badgered him constantly about it, but he never gave anything away.  Still it was obvious.  He was always away on work trips, would never answer his phone, always skyping/talking on the phone secretively, and yes, finally I couldn't take the not-knowing anymore. I practically begged him to tell me one way or another, and in the end he would just get angry at me.  Finally I snooped around, looking on his phone, and trying to read his emails (didn't hack in though, just snooping).  It was pretty horrible.  Funnily enough, at some point during this time, he accused ME of seeing someone - he found a receipt for a restaurant I have never been too, and accused me of having dinner there with someone.  Ha!  And all along he was seeing someone, as I found out afterwards.  I found the whole thing very hurtful, just so disrespectful to not tell someone what is going on.  Yes, it's true, someone said that not knowing is much worse, I would rather just know.  When he finally told me the truth (after the affair was over, but little did I know at the time he was in another one) I felt so sick I I had to run to the toilet. I thought I'd be sick.  But still, it was better than not knowing. 
It does get better with time though... and I hope I get to the stage I can trust someone again...

[baconninja]

Ugh, im hearing the "i'll never hurt you again" stuff now.

i have REALLY addressed my issues and changed myself a LOT and right now he seems like a different person, when i look in his eyes he seems honestly different. But ugh. How long til the other parts of him take over again, or have they already? He mentions having other selves, and i just think, "ITS ALL YOU! Take responsibility!"

And the worst thing for me is how would I know? He is way too good at hiding things, right up there with a sociopath. Craziness.

[sm15000]

Oh my. It sounds like we were with the exact same man!
Btw, my ex has been in therapy for 7 years now and was in therapy  the whole 5 years I was with him, and it helped in some areas, but it never stopped this gamey stuff concerning women. In fact he now sees two different female therapists, so even in therapy his inability to committ comes through loud and clear!

MaybeSo, I have read your posts and taken your advice on many occasions as I've thought we have dealt with a similar beast    The fact that your ex has been in therapy for all those years but the stuff concerning women still remains is eye-opening.  I know infidelity isn't always a factor with BPD but I can't help thinking that the type of interactions they NEED with women is?

interesting thread!  My  ex bf (uBPD/npd) cheated on me for the last 6 months of our r/s and I KNEW something was going on, and badgered him constantly about it, but he never gave anything away.  Still it was obvious.  He was always away on work trips, would never answer his phone, always skyping/talking on the phone secretively, and yes, finally I couldn't take the not-knowing anymore. I practically begged him to tell me one way or another, and in the end he would just get angry at me.  Finally I snooped around, looking on his phone, and trying to read his emails (didn't hack in though, just snooping).  It was pretty horrible.  Funnily enough, at some point during this time, he accused ME of seeing someone - he found a receipt for a restaurant I have never been too, and accused me of having dinner there with someone.

Trevy, the 'phone' behaviour is always a give away. . .I've heard it over and over again with r/s problems    I also had the accusations of me seeing someone. . .also a classic.  Even though I told him it was the oldest manipulation trick in the world, he threw it at me a few times.  Sorry, but I wouldn't be surprised if that restaurant was where HE had taken someone.

just curious, did any of you take steps to uncover the cheating? like hire a PI or put a GPS thing on the phone? did you check cell phone bills or the PC?
GL

Gina, I didn't really take any steps to properly uncover the cheating. . .I was told by someone else - and there was something written on Facebook to the woman in question that was dodgy.  This went along with changes in his behaviour so I did suspect.

I did look at his phone one night - there were town male names with WORK in brackets. . .names he's never mentioned before.  I opened one up and it was another dodgy message.  It drove me crazy. . .but I knew from his responses (I caught him out a few times) that he was lying over and over again. 

Funny thing is his first response was to admit to me at the start of our r/s he was serially cheating for years but denied what I was currently asking him. I was told I had a cheek accusing him (although I never accused him, I just wanted to discuss what I'd been told) and basically unless I had caught him with his privates in another woman I had no right 

[sm15000]

Ugh, im hearing the "i'll never hurt you again" stuff now.
i have REALLY addressed my issues and changed myself a LOT and right now he seems like a different person, when i look in his eyes he seems honestly different. But ugh. How long til the other parts of him take over again, or have they already? He mentions having other selves, and i just think, "ITS ALL YOU! Take responsibility!"
And the worst thing for me is how would I know? He is way too good at hiding things, right up there with a sociopath. Craziness.

Hi, 

When words and actions don't match I think there will always be trouble.  What is he doing to show you he'll never hurt you?
My ex would desperately try to avoid talking face-to-face over issues. . .he would write, text, mail.  When he wrote to me "he would never put me through this again" etc etc. . .I thought there would be a turning point. . .he came out with all this stuff that he'd had an epiphany over me. . .I really thought he was going to change - a couple of weeks later all the push/pull stuff was happening again.  His words were cheap.  I read this article. . .you might be interested   

http://counsellingresource.com/features/2009/08/10/regret-sorrow-and-true-contrition/

[baconninja]

When words and actions don't match I think there will always be trouble.  What is he doing to show you he'll never hurt you?

I read this article. . .you might be interested   

http://counsellingresource.com/features/2009/08/10/regret-sorrow-and-true-contrition/

Wow that is a great article. the part where it says ". A person_