Future Ruined?

[Think About It...]

Hi all. I never thought I would have been on a message board like this, but here I am. I don't know if my fiance, with whom I lived with the past 7 years and have a beautiful 5 year old son with has BPD, but many of her traits fit the BPDWaif type I have heard about. For a long time I have been blaming PMDD for her problems and yes her symptoms seem to follow her cycle, but she never really has the "good weeks" either. I knew in the beginning something was wrong. We would have nast fights every couple weeks, probably around ovulation and just before period, in which she or I would say "it is over for good this time". Eventually she would call me begging me back or better yet telling me how wrong I was and I just need to be more loving. HA HA. It was like clockwork What puzzles me is after our son was born these fights stopped Until recently in which a big one blew and I was almost out the door and she stopped me. Then one blew up near her period a month later and I left. i begged my way back home. During those 2 "good weeks" she was very loving outside the home but very depressed inside. But her behaviors were vey strange, almost like she was trying to relive us dating. I believe she had some type of mental collapse or psychotic break or something. She won't ever go for therapy though. She "isn't nut, I am". and then right when she ovulated, she made me leave again and here I am wonder WTHJH. She really was messed up and said she needed to "fix herself first before she could fix us". In some ways I do believe her intentions. I get very little in the way of communcation from her except about who keeps our son day by day. There is no custody dispute or anything yet. She seems to have detatched from him too through this and just now seems to be being more concerned with him finally.

I did all the pleading to get her to think about what she is soing to all of our futures. She has 2 daughters also that I have resided with but am not really close with. But I now have the ability to buy us a home and she is "deciding what she wants, whether or not she wants a man in her life." So I believe she has some really strange issues going on. She does well at work although I have heard she is not her usual self there some days now.

I get very little communication from her. She even admitted something was wrong with her and she doesn't think she is all the way back yet. For her to question her mental state TO ME ESPECIALLY is astonishing.

Anyway, I am wondering if she intends on how you put it "reengagement". i am seeing signs of it. Telling me she is "starting to miss me but unsure of what she wants." She is also telling mutual friends she is starting to miss me. Astonishingly she asked me to go on an overnight vacation with mutual friends to be alone with me. Her tune about it cahnged later that night. Especailly after I told her, "I am not your prom date. We would really have to discuss our future FIRST".

So waht do you guys think? i have a boundry. i am NOT "dating my wife". We either plan on me coming home soon or NOTHING. I might be screwing any cahnce of saving my family with that. But after 7 years, if she is unsure what she wants, I am not going to remake myself for her and wow her like teenagers. The only time she sounds "lucid" is to ask if I have a girlfriend. it seems as though she is afraid of me actually, to ask to see me or anything. Anyway, that is my rule, all of me or none of me. If I was a bad guy in anyway and had to prove something, it would be different. She will when "lucid" say I am the greatest guy in the world. if I have to "date" her to "prove myself" after 7 years, then too bad. I miss her terribly, but our relationships seems to be in that "push/pull like before our son was born. I know, looking back, she wasn't happy with me for a long time. I mean her PMDD symptoms really confuse when she loves me one day and a couple days later wishes me dead in her thoughts.

So what are the odds of her wanting to at least TRY to reengage? It seems like she wants to. But my "terms' might keep that from ever happening. if she wants to throw HER future away, that is her choice. I am not "dating" her to try to convince her otherwise.

 
 
 
 

 
 
 

[riptapart]

Hi all. I never thought I would have been on a message board like this, but here I am. I don't know if my fiance, with whom I lived with the past 7 years and have a beautiful 5 year old son with has BPD, but many of her traits fit the BPDWaif type I have heard about. For a long time I have been blaming PMDD for her problems and yes her symptoms seem to follow her cycle, but she never really has the "good weeks" either. I knew in the beginning something was wrong. We would have nast fights every couple weeks, probably around ovulation and just before period, in which she or I would say "it is over for good this time". Eventually she would call me begging me back or better yet telling me how wrong I was and I just need to be more loving. HA HA. It was like clockwork What puzzles me is after our son was born these fights stopped Until recently in which a big one blew and I was almost out the door and she stopped me. Then one blew up near her period a month later and I left. i begged my way back home. During those 2 "good weeks" she was very loving outside the home but very depressed inside. But her behaviors were vey strange, almost like she was trying to relive us dating. I believe she had some type of mental collapse or psychotic break or something. She won't ever go for therapy though. She "isn't nut, I am". and then right when she ovulated, she made me leave again and here I am wonder WTHJH. She really was messed up and said she needed to "fix herself first before she could fix us". In some ways I do believe her intentions. I get very little in the way of communcation from her except about who keeps our son day by day. There is no custody dispute or anything yet. She seems to have detatched from him too through this and just now seems to be being more concerned with him finally.

I did all the pleading to get her to think about what she is soing to all of our futures. She has 2 daughters also that I have resided with but am not really close with. But I now have the ability to buy us a home and she is "deciding what she wants, whether or not she wants a man in her life." So I believe she has some really strange issues going on. She does well at work although I have heard she is not her usual self there some days now.

I get very little communication from her. She even admitted something was wrong with her and she doesn't think she is all the way back yet. For her to question her mental state TO ME ESPECIALLY is astonishing.

Anyway, I am wondering if she intends on how you put it "reengagement". i am seeing signs of it. Telling me she is "starting to miss me but unsure of what she wants." She is also telling mutual friends she is starting to miss me. Astonishingly she asked me to go on an overnight vacation with mutual friends to be alone with me. Her tune about it cahnged later that night. Especailly after I told her, "I am not your prom date. We would really have to discuss our future FIRST".

So waht do you guys think? i have a boundry. i am NOT "dating my wife". We either plan on me coming home soon or NOTHING. I might be screwing any cahnce of saving my family with that. But after 7 years, if she is unsure what she wants, I am not going to remake myself for her and wow her like teenagers. The only time she sounds "lucid" is to ask if I have a girlfriend. it seems as though she is afraid of me actually, to ask to see me or anything. Anyway, that is my rule, all of me or none of me. If I was a bad guy in anyway and had to prove something, it would be different. She will when "lucid" say I am the greatest guy in the world. if I have to "date" her to "prove myself" after 7 years, then too bad. I miss her terribly, but our relationships seems to be in that "push/pull like before our son was born. I know, looking back, she wasn't happy with me for a long time. I mean her PMDD symptoms really confuse when she loves me one day and a couple days later wishes me dead in her thoughts.

So what are the odds of her wanting to at least TRY to reengage? It seems like she wants to. But my "terms' might keep that from ever happening. if she wants to throw HER future away, that is her choice. I am not "dating" her to try to convince her otherwise.

 
 
 
 

 
 
 

[Rose Tiger]

Intimacy is a trigger for a person with BPD.  Dating is about as much as they can handle in the way of a relationship.  Generally speaking though, there are many flavors of PDs.  Your best bet is to get custody of your son and move on.  If you wish to try re-engaging, then the staying board is a better place to post and for tools for communicating.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[riptapart]

Oh my God, you are absolutely right. It was only when I really started to try to push to get "deeper" that all this happened. It was like out of a textbook.
Question is, I don't know if i CAN stay or not. She has done nothing really to show she wants that.

[Rose Tiger]

It would be a roller coaster.  The staying board has tools on how to the handle the threats to leave, what to do during rages, things like that.  If you want her to be agreeable to living together, you can learn how to validate validate validate and she might feel more comfortable with setting up house.  What is killer is the core shame, they develop all these coping mechanisms to avoid feeling shame.  Including projecting those bad feelings onto you.  Speaking in a critical way is doom to the relationship.  Learning how to validate and communicate in a completely noncritical way is key.  They are emotional children, and the same applies to raising a baby, praise the good, ignore the bad.

[riptapart]

SO are you saying that in order to make it work i can't say. I have to come home first after all those years of being there and helping with bills and everything and my son being there? Like I have to redo the entire relationship? Sorry, but I was the one basically made to leave from not feeling loved. I am not going to be sorry for being a man. if that is what I have to do, then NO WAY. There were a couple times though in our 2 week reconciliation, 1 week living back home, that she almost like WANTED me to tell her what to do and how things would work. I know it isn't healthy, but i would much rather THAT role than being "sorry" or trying to prove myself to her again. After 7 years she KNOWS who i am and what i am about.

[seeking balance]

After 7 years she KNOWS who i am and what i am about.

Interesting you assume this...after 7 years you seem to be just grasping her now.  Have you read the book Loving Someone with BPD?

[riptapart]

After 7 years she KNOWS who i am and what i am about.

Interesting you assume this...after 7 years you seem to be just grasping her now.  Have you read the book Loving Someone with BPD?

No I haven't. I guess I should purchase it. Are you saying that by setting that boundary of we talk, see each other a couple times, and I come home, I am dooming any hope for us? Well then I guess I am. I did NOTHING wrong to have to prove myself. I believe her ultimate goal is to get me home but I need to hear that from her. Her walls are breaking down now already. They will break more I think. She is starting to "see the light" in some ways. I know they are all selfish ways though. I think money is starting to be one of her issues. I also think she is getting tired of being alone. If this is ever going to work, I need some control over how it plays out. I am not going to apologize for things i didn't do. I will apologize for some things if she tells me I hurt her in some way. But she got rid of me. I didn't want this. That was MY HOME too even though it isn't much and now we could have so much more together. I read about boundaries. Those are MY boundaries. Are you saying they are too much to ever work? My belief is we see each other a couple times. Go on a brief vacation and then I come home.

[Rose Tiger]

I think making demands is not the way to go.  It's like saying to a toddler, ok kiddo, listen up, these are my rules for engagement.  A kid will think HUH?  Telling her that it would be painful to spend a vacation but not be returning to be together is ok.  Saying I'd like for us to give living together another try is ok.  Saying feelings is ok.

Demanding, my way or the highway, not so good.  You don't have to apologize for things you didn't do.  You don't validate abuse.  You don't justify, defend, argue, explain (JADE).  Validating is trying to understand where they are coming from.  Not necessarily agreeing but not telling them, no, you are wrong to feel that way.  People have a right to their feelings, feelings aren't right or wrong, they just are.

[artman.1]

riptapart,
     Your post makes me wonder what is going on.  Her behavior seems very much like Triangulating (read definition) between you and at least one other man/person.  Just how much do you actually know about her behaviors while you have been gone from her?  Is it possible that she has emotionally, or otherwise engaged with someone else?  BPD's fear abandonment, and often, when Intimacy gets to much, seek another to fall back on, because they feel they are so bad, you could not possibly love them, and are about to leave them.  When they engage another emotionally, it often results in Triangulation (read definition) behaviors.  My Sister in Law contracted AIDS while acting like this.  My UBPDW has done this about 37 years ago, and possibly since.

Art

[BDFriend]

Thanks so much for sharing riptapart. It made me raise a question.

Does anyone know if they actually "miss us"? Or is this a (verbalized) tactic in an effort to recycle?  Seems like the coldness of their departure forces us out of their minds-literally and quickly.

Mine totally discarded me after being in love the week before.  Now it's "I have great love for you." And "I'll continue to pray for you.". Huh?  I keep shaking my head as I'm not the one who left! (but now, I'm grateful it's over)

Thanks,
BDFriend

[riptapart]

Mine didn't "depart" coldly. it was her behavior AFTER that which was really strange. She seemed to actually have a bad identity crisis and was really strange. She is starting to come out of it I think, geting back to herself. But it seems like she wants to relive the beginning of our relationship in some ways, like a teenager almost. it is like she wants that excitement all over. She has never been diagnosed as BPD. She shows all the traits of it but only with ME. She has nnever cheated but constantly feared I would like her dad. I don't think this is about her wanting anyone else. My therapist told me that it is quite probably I meant a whole lot more to my wife than I ever knew. She sees the fact that I wasn't happy as HER BIGGEST LIFE'S failure. I would have done things much differently if I realized how emotionally immature she was. She loves sex and affection but it seems like she wants ME to control ALL OF IT. it is like she wants me to be very strong and cold... LIKE A FATHER. it is all so strange. it is like her personality has really regressed  about 7 years. I would almost swear by it if it didn't make ME sound crazy. After the "big split" she went into like an isolation. I misinterpretated EVERYTHING. I thought there might be someone else. I thought that she just hated me. But I am really starting to believe the things she said... "I AM A FAILURE AS A MOTHER AND AS A LOVER". I know something wasn't right by her disregard for our son. I am not saying abuse or neglect, just a disregard. Once I started seeing that I will admit I was a little scared. At times her HATRED OF MEN was almost sinister. She despised ALL of us. Well my son is a male, but he is only 5.

As i said. I will go back and start seeing her only if i hear from her these words, "I love you and miss you and want my family back." From there I think I can get control back of her. YES I did say "control". i wouldn't be like that if her mental state was "normal". But if that is what it takes to keep my family whole, I will do it. Does anyone else here have a situation where at times their BPD girl seems to want to be controlled?

One thing I can say for certain is that she is starting to "paint me white again". How long it will last, i don't know. Over the past years since our son was born, she hid her feelings/emotions so well. Now she has "cracked". I don't know if I mentioned that. There were a few times in our relationship that she said i was the only thing keeping her sane. That without me there she would go insane. I took it as a compliment and expression of speech. Those words have seemed to have taken on a whole new meaning.

[riptapart]

The one thing I think that is different in my case over so many others is the length of time we lasted and that her emotions tend to follow her menstrual cycle. PMDD like. Everyone keeps saying there has to be someone else. Well i won't look a fool and say there isn't. But it seems pretty darn certain there isn't YET. I really do believe her HATRED OF MEN. It is like I said "almost sinister". Nobody could FAKE that hatred. Maybe she has been talking with someone but at a distance and I really don't think she is. She never was a runaround, and has only been with ME for 7 years. THAT I AM POSITIVE OF. And like I said, it really appears to be related to her menstrual cycle.

[Whatwasthat?]

Hi riptapart

I'm so sorry for the difficult and confusing situation you are in. It must be so hard when there's a child to consider.

You mentioned that your wife has never been to therapy. Has she ever been assessed by any kind of doctor in relation to her moods? It might help a bit more in making decisions if you and she had some kind of notion of what it is that she's dealing with. I know it's not always easy to get an accurate diagnosis - sometimes impossible - but if you think she would agree it would seem sensible.

I do not know anyone who experiences PMDD to this dramatic extent - but it can be terrible I believe. And of course the other sad fact is that it's quite possible that she has PD problems as well. Just because we have one issue doesn't rule out having others too.

It might be a good idea to see if she will start to seek more medical help - understanding that if she does this doesn't necessarily mean that you are ready to resume the relationship - but simply that it would be a good thing to do anyway. Longer term it's going to be important not just for her - but for your son - that she is as mentally healthy as she can be - and maybe it would be a good idea to focus on this for the moment rather than whether the two of you should or should not get back together and under what conditions that should happen.

[riptapart]

Thanks for your advice. I unserstand wht you are saying. Getting her to therapy while apart will be IMPOSSIBLE. I am hoping to get home soon to start working on it, ulitmately HER choice I know. i don't know if you ever saw PMDD symptoms in anyone, but they are EXTREMELY terrible. They completely change who a woman is and how she feels about life. And NONE of it is feeling good for sure. Either way there is definitely something wrong with her emtionally. She held in for a long time I know. The signs were there BEFORE our son was born, snd just recently I guess she couldn't hold it in anymore. I know she hasn't fully left me go yet, It appears her regrets over this our getting stronger but she won't commit to anything. She just wants to see me. I need to get the upper hand back. I am sticking to my boundaries.

I know now that I will need to sacrifice a lot to be in this relationship. It almost was like having another child in the house emotionally. i can live with that. She is good in many areas even as a mother. I know she needs help. I KNOW she will never do it without me. Right now she knows she has the upper hand. She knows i want my family back. So I just have to stand by my convictions. We work on getting me home or she gets nothing from me.

[Whatwasthat?]

I'm sorry this is so hard riptapart.

If you decide you want to go back and live with your wife for now and that happens I would also do some research on physical treatments for PMDD. I don't know anyone who has it - PMS yes - PMDD no.

But I do have experience of how appallingly my own health - and that of other women friends  - can be affected by hormone imbalance. If it were me I'd look to see if there are any 'natural' treatments out there - but I would also consult your family doctor.

It can be a bit daunting when  you start researching this stuff. Do you have a naturopath you could consult? It's what we call them in the UK - not sure what they'd be called elsewhere. One other way to start researching is to look at customer reviews for dietary supplements on major sites that sell internationally. If you decide to do this do PM me as I can point you in the direction of one or two that might be useful.  It might allow you to see what women with similar problems use to help PMDD. If this is a major factor for your wife she may benefit less from counselling and more from supplements, a change to her diet and drugs that  your family doctor can prescribe. And obviously it's good to have a doctor guiding you in all of this. But as I say it's often not just the one thing that's causing someone's emotional problems - and BPD - as we know - is a whole different issue.

I do hope you find a way forward that works for you. But it is important never to lose sight of looking after yourself...we do have to keep reminding ourselves that if someone doesn't want to be helped there really is no point trying. Wishing you well in your journey.