Does the 'Validating' Approach Eventually Run Out

[Think About It...]

I agree that validation and boundaries are both needed to deal with my BPD wife.

In order to properly validate words and emotions need to be understood by me to give feedback. I can ask questions to draw her out and respond more accurately.

Having an intelligent conversation is rare as she is very much like a five year old and may never grow up.

The silent treatment seems to be a method communicating for her so I talk to others who are capable of intelligent feedback.

That is my situation and I decided to be with her.

I can only change myself, to become more healthy.

BPD's live in an ugly world, I am thankful that I am not there.

Joe  

[Joseph54]

I agree that validation and boundaries are both needed to deal with my BPD wife.

In order to properly validate words and emotions need to be understood by me to give feedback. I can ask questions to draw her out and respond more accurately.

Having an intelligent conversation is rare as she is very much like a five year old and may never grow up.

The silent treatment seems to be a method communicating for her so I talk to others who are capable of intelligent feedback.

That is my situation and I decided to be with her.

I can only change myself, to become more healthy.

BPD's live in an ugly world, I am thankful that I am not there.

Joe  

[hopelessinseattle]

LH97 I'm glad that you have had a chance to take a good stab at validation and that you find that it seems to be working for you.  I understand how validation can feel manufactured and disingenuous to you, it often feels that way to me too.  I also totally agree with an0ought that it is a change (for those of us who aren't always naturally inclined toward validation) and change can be very difficult and disorienting.  What I find myself struggling with in my practices with validating my BPDw is not so much that I feel like i'm being fake with her, but rather that I'm not giving myself a chance to express the feelings that I am really feeling at the time.  Who will validate me?  When do I get a chance to get my feelings heard?  My therapist will validate my feelings, my friends will validate my feelings, but the ONE person on this planet from whom the validation should come (in a healthy relationship) will likely never be the one to provide it.

I feel like validation comes very naturally and easily in healthy relationships.  I naturally validate with friends, family, coworkers, etc. on a dailoy basis.  However, when validation is used purely as a means to avoid further confrontation or dysregulation - that doesn't seem healthy or genuine to me at all.  At that point it's become a battle and/or survival tactic, not so much a tool for healthy communication.  So maybe it's not the validation itself that is disingenuous, but the motives behind it?

For me, I feel the most disingenuous when I say something like: "I see that what we're talking about is upsetting you" when what I FEEL is: "You're upset?  YOU are upset?  Why should YOU be upset about this? What about me?" etc...I'm sure we've all had that conversation in our heads if not in our mouths.   

Bottom line for me is if that I don't actually want to care about her emotions in that particular situation, then my validation of her emotions may feel fake to me, if not to her as well.  How to fix this...well if I knew that I wouldn't be here now would I?

If I have learned anything over the last couple months, it is that I need to stop thinking that I have any say or influence in what BPDw does/thinks/says/feels and that I need to take care of myself and my feelings.  For me, that probably means finding validation elsewhere.  In the meantime, I continue to "attempt" to validate my BPDw's emotions so that I can survive another day of battle...

unfortunately losing hope too,
-lcf

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[Hman]

My BPD wife and I are same in boat. After 5 years I have learned when it is my wife talking or the BPD like a switch going on and off. There is no rationalizing with the BPD version, its better to talk her into talking another day. But make sure not to stonewall or get defensive just simply explain you don't feel no is the right time another time will be better. Hold her tight and don't leave. Easier said than done though..

[losinghope97]

Thanks again for the responses. 

In the post from the 27th, I didn't put in a lot of detail, partly because I was short on time, but mainly because I hadn't fully investigated the feeling internally.  I knew it was there, but hadn't dug into it.

an0ught, I sincerely appreciate your post and understand through the structure of your response how the validation can and does impact the ability of the person hear what you are saying.  At our worst moments in the last few months (before I knew what was going on), I know that I was not  'listening' or 'expressing emotions' in the present moment, just reacting to the hurt and fear that was surrounding us.  As I have come to understand BPD (the small amount I do today at least), I like Joseph54 understand that 'BPD's live in an ugly world' which creates tremendous sadness and pain in my heart for this woman that I love with everything that I have.

We have been married for a long time, and in retrospect, that is because I have been able to validate her feelings, even if I didn't consciously know what I was doing at the time.  (As a side note, I feel foolish that have been married so long and I never recognized the pattern until recently, but that is another post). But now that I know what dynamic is at play, I continue to be struck by the feeling that in those moments when I am validating, that it is fake.

For me the problem is that the first, second, third, maybe even through the 10th time I say that I have empathy and understanding for her emotion on a particular issue I really do, but at some point it ends.  Eventually it no longer really impacts my sense of empathy, not because I am cold, but rather because it isn_

[an0ught]

I have never really thought of myself as needy, but maybe numenal is right _

[tuum est61]

Boundaries are a necessary complement to validation. Otherwise we can be exploited or gamed easily.

Without changes not much will change...

As usual An0ught an excellent post.  I mined the two gems above.   

I would add detachment as the third leg to the validation/boundary setting stool. 

I used to worry about being disingenuous about the validation, but if you detach from your BPD's emotions - mentally detaching them from their BPD, I don't find my validation of how their BPD is causing them to feel and react, disingenuous at all. 

And absolutely, without changes you make on/to/about yourself, nothing changes. 

[losinghope97]

Great stuff an0ught.  I have to figure out how to implement in my actions, but I see what needs to be done.

tuum est61, Thank you for your response also.  

"I used to worry about being disingenuous about the validation, but if you detach from your BPD's emotions - mentally detaching them from their BPD, I don't find my validation of how their BPD is causing them to feel and react, disingenuous at all."

I get what you are saying intellectually, but in the face of the moment sometime I struggle detaching BPD from the person that is in front of me, especially when she is starting to rage or lose control of her emotions.  Is this something you struggled with at first, and if so was there any trick you used to bring yourself back to the detached state if you got taken of course?  I know there isn't a magic bullet, but anything to stay on task can help.

Thanks,

LH97

[tuum est61]

I get what you are saying intellectually, but in the face of the moment sometime I struggle detaching BPD from the person that is in front of me, especially when she is starting to rage lose control of her emotions.  Is this something you struggled with at first, and if so was there any trick you used to bring yourself back to the detached state if you got taken of course?  I know there isn't a magic bullet, but anything to stay on task can help.

Thanks,

LH97

Sorry but I am STILL stuggling because, yes, my need for validation is a very human need/frailty.  I severely ran off course yesterday in fact as I have posted elsewhere.  Some tips?

Accept that validating, though it "feels" wrong, or disingenuous, DOES work.   

Be mindful of when you are validating others.  Note how easy it seems to be - even when you don't agree with them.  I find myself watching myself validating the most ardent opponents at work, and then wonder, why can't I do this with the love of my life?

Practice. Practice. Practice.

And more to the point of needing validation yourself, I coincidentally was sent this link by my brother today.   Note Bullet 4 near the bottom on "minimizing external validation" as a key to happiness. 

http://postmasculine.com/happiness/