My personal demons-fleas

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[ScarletOlive]

I'm struggling with reconciling and forgiving myself for how I have treated my siblings in my past. I've apologized long ago, and told them they didn't deserve it, and that I love them, and have made a firm commitment to never hurt them and to protect them. They have long since forgiven me. Still, every time these topics come up, and I hear about the effects on people, I just shrink in horror that this could be me.

I was a bully.  I was homeschooled, and was basically given responsibility to run the house. It escalated from age 8-16, and during that time, I bullied my three younger siblings. I was supposed to keep them in line with barely any options. I was raised by abusive parents, and my older brother was a bully too. So, I did what I knew. I'd grab, push, or drag them where I needed them to go if they were disobeying, and sometimes I'd even slap them, sometimes in the face, and told them it didn't hurt that much, smack the back of their heads, or kick them (I always told myself it was a light kick, so it was ok). I always yelled, and sometimes called them names. It's so hard to reconcile this with how much I loved them, how much we loved each other, how I protected them from my parents' abuse, and stopped my older brother from bullying me and them. Plus, I loved my older brother. He was my best friend.

Yesterday, I heard a bullying and suicide talk, and it just hit me so much. I thought I was through this. Yet, I just cried and cried. I couldn't stop. I was my siblings protector for so long. How could I do that? I know why, I just don't know how to accept it. I feel like I'm excusing it. I don't know.

The other thing that hurts about myself is that I was invalidating. I was so enmeshed and in the FOG that I didn't realize what my older brother and younger sister were going through right in front of me. I believed my parents' stories that they were the bad ones. That they were rude to my BPDm for talking back, not following her ridiculous rules, that they were disobedient kids. My parents FOGed me at 16 to write my older brother at boarding school to tell him to obey the parents, to not hate them, that they were trying their best. I was the one who researched abuse! How could I not see the pain they were in? I've forgiven myself, but it just hurts so much that I could not see it.

Anyone else had behaviors like this that they can't understand? How do you heal? How did you forgive yourself?

[bluemoon9]

I can completely relate to what you are saying. I still tear up when I remember the times I had been mean to my sibling.
But I guess we were doing the best we could with the best information we had. We couldnt have seen it any better at that time because that is what we were taught to do. You can either heal the abuse or pass it on. My sister laughs when I tell her how guilty I feel for being mean to her. She says you can keep feeling guilty but I dont even remember that much of that having happened. She knows how much I cared about her and is actually very greatful that I was around to protect her from a lot of stuff.
I even felt very guilty for her showing N and BPD traits right now. I feel I didn't help her grow well enough and she was after all in my care, I should have taught her more about pain and empathy. It created a lot of conflict inside me. But later when I saw some other ten and twelve year olds I realised I really wasn't that old to understand what was happening around me. Susan Forwards in her book has written a special paragraph saying, whatever you did earlier was PTA (prior to awareness), please dont beat yourself up on that.
And you know that statistically even for infants if the mother is caring and nurturing even 30% of the times it can keep the children emotionally healthy. So don't worry about your actions, there was no lasting damage and I am sure your siblings are glad of how much you_

[Peridot]

Dear BecomingButterfly,

I'd like to send you a great big safe hug! Please release this worry you have. You are the child of your parents - you are not the parents of your siblings. You should not have been put in a position by your parents to be a true caregiver to your siblings. You were forced to lose your own childhood. This was wrong of them. What you did while you yourself were still a growing youngster is not to be viewed through the same lens through which one might judge an adult raising a child. You were a child yourself! How could you know anything but what you were taught? You were taught by words as much as by actions. But the thing is, you figured it out, DESPITE being brainwashed into believing that the bullying was the only way, you figured it out! THAT is far more valuable to remember than what may have happened prior to enlightenment.  

I really like your post BlueMoon. Good thoughts!

[bluemoon9]

You are the child of your parents - you are not the parents of your siblings.

It is so difficult to understand that after a lifetime of being programmed otherwise.

I really like your post BlueMoon. Good thoughts!

Thank you Peridot   

[BehindTheWall]

I have to respectfully disagree with Bluemoon in that I think your actions did affect your siblings.  However, this does not mean you need to beat yourself up about it.  You recognized that it was wrong, you stopped doing it, you apologized and have tried to make amends as best you could.  You have taken full responsibility and done everything you could.  Continuing to accuse yourself isn't something you have to do.  It's not going to erase the past, it's not going to make things better, it's not a required part of taking responsibility for your actions.

I'm sure your telling your siblings that you were wrong and apologizing has gone a long way towards helping them heal, and set a good example for them too.  There are plenty of posts here about the hurt people feel because their parents won't acknowledge what they did wrong.  You've done the exact opposite of that.

I agree with the others, you were a child yourself when you did these things and you didn't have the resources to be able to fully recognize that what your parents and older brother did was wrong and change your behavior accordingly.  That you were able to do so while still a teenager living at home says a lot about you.  Plus you were (and are) living in an abusive environment and were given responsibilities far beyond what you should have been given.

As far as writing your brother when you were still unaware about what was going on, and believing your parents' stories, you were a) young and b) brainwashed by your own parents and still living with them and dependent on them (and at their mercy if you disobeyed).  It would be almost impossible for you to do otherwise, and again, it's amazing that you are able to recognize it all for what it truly is now, when you are still a teenager (right?) and still living at home.

     I can tell from your posts that you are a very compassionate and mature person.  It's okay to keep forgiving yourself and letting this guilt go.  You are on the right path in terms of overcoming your very difficult childhood.

The issue of guilt and forgiving myself has been a hard one for me too, and what has helped me a lot is looking at it from a Christian perspective.  I don't know what your beliefs are, but if you believe in the Bible or are interested in that perspective then feel free to PM me.  I didn't want to write all that out here in case you would be offended by it.

[ScarletOlive]

But I guess we were doing the best we could with the best information we had. We couldnt have seen it any better at that time because that is what we were taught to do. You can either heal the abuse or pass it on. My sister laughs when I tell her how guilty I feel for being mean to her. She says you can keep feeling guilty but I dont even remember that much of that having happened. She knows how much I cared about her and is actually very greatful that I was around to protect her from a lot of stuff.

Your whole post really made me feel lighter.     My siblings do say the same thing, that it didn't affect them. I don't really believe that, I know it did, but they have told me it's the past and so I guess I just need to put it there.

I don't know if my post answers what you are seeking but I do send you a lot of love. You were and are lovelier than you realise.     

Lots of love to you. Thanks so much.   

You are the child of your parents - you are not the parents of your siblings. You should not have been put in a position by your parents to be a true caregiver to your siblings. You were forced to lose your own childhood. This was wrong of them. What you did while you yourself were still a growing youngster is not to be viewed through the same lens through which one might judge an adult raising a child. You were a child yourself! How could you know anything but what you were taught? You were taught by words as much as by actions.

This is true. I didn't really have a lot of contact with the outside world to tell me that this was wrong and didn't happen in normal families. All I knew is that "normal families" fight. I hadn't really thought about it as a difference of culpability between myself parenting children as a child, and my parents parenting children as adults. That helps.

But the thing is, you figured it out, DESPITE being brainwashed into believing that the bullying was the only way, you figured it out! THAT is far more valuable to remember than what may have happened prior to enlightenment.

Peridot, thank you for that.  I had forgotten that I could be proud of that. I did figure it out. Safe hugs right back to you.

Continuing to accuse yourself isn't something you have to do.  It's not going to erase the past, it's not going to make things better, it's not a required part of taking responsibility for your actions.

Behind the Wall, thank you. Wow, that makes a lot of sense. I don't have to continue beating myself to own my past.

As far as writing your brother when you were still unaware about what was going on, and believing your parents' stories, you were a) young and b) brainwashed by your own parents and still living with them and dependent on them (and at their mercy if you disobeyed).  It would be almost impossible for you to do otherwise, and again, it's amazing that you are able to recognize it all for what it truly is now, when you are still a teenager (right?) and still living at home.

This is all very true. There really would not have been a way for me to fight them on it even if I had known. And yes, I am still a teen living at home. I do think that me understanding this now will help in the long run.

    I can tell from your posts that you are a very compassionate and mature person.  It's okay to keep forgiving yourself and letting this guilt go.  You are on the right path in terms of overcoming your very difficult childhood.

Thank you so much.   

The issue of guilt and forgiving myself has been a hard one for me too, and what has helped me a lot is looking at it from a Christian perspective.  I don't know what your beliefs are, but if you believe in the Bible or are interested in that perspective then feel free to PM me.  I didn't want to write all that out here in case you would be offended by it.

I appreciate your sensitivity. I am a Christian, grew up in a Traditional Roman Catholic Church, and have recently moved to Novus Ordo (basically just regular RC). I do believe in the Bible and I'd be interested in anything.

One thing that still plagues me about this whole thing. In my church, from an early age, I learned that 7 is the "age of reason" where you can distinguish right from wrong. At 12, I was an "adult Christian" old enough to make decisions about my faith. My culpability hangs over me for that. I know I wasn't anywhere near an adult, but I was a very old child.  I thought all families yell, grab, and call names, and that most have to hit their kids sometimes to keep them in line. But deep down I wasn't sure about the hitting. I feel like some part of me should have known? Especially since I had to make excuses for myself for the worst of it.

[loti]

It is especially devastating when abusive parents warp their little children, then you grow up- get away from it- and realize that it is NOT who you are.  They robbed you of your innocence and you were following their awful example.  Do you know how many people go through their entire lives without ever taking any responsibility for their actions?  Most.  I think it was very big of you to apologize to your siblings and be willing to talk about it.  Now you deserve some compassion for the little child who was not taught any better or given an example of kindness or love to follow.        

[ScarletOlive]

Thank you for that Loti. It most certainly is not who I am. I know in my heart that I was a good child, and that I did love, and I also know who I am and who I want to be. I wasn't my parents then, I'm not them now, and I won't be them.    You folks have no idea how helpful you all have been. I'm finally allowing myself to release the mental weight of this. It's kind of like wearing a mask of conditioning, like a cocoon, that I've worn for so long. But inside, there's my little blue butterfly who I'm nurturing and creating. I'm slowly setting her free.

[Peridot]

That is SOOOO good to hear! 

[busybee1116]

Becoming: You sound like you have insight now, feel full remorse for your actions (even though you were not fully responsible as you were a child yourself with poor role models) and have expressed that remorse to your sibs sincerely. You behave differently now and show your sibs with your actions that you have changed and are sincere.  You are not perfect, but you have worked hard to change and are a different person.  How many of us would have better relationships or repaired relationships with the pwBPD in our lives if they did the same?  I think you're amazing. It is unlikely that I will experience what you have given your sibs.

_{edited to fix ye olde autocorrect}

[NewPhoenixRising]

quote by becomingbutterfly

I know in my heart that I was a good child, and that I did love, and I also know who I am and who I want to be. I wasn't my parents then, I'm not them now, and I won't be them. Empathy You folks have no idea how helpful you all have been. I'm finally allowing myself to release the mental weight of this. It's kind of like wearing a mask of conditioning, like a cocoon, that I've worn for so long. But inside, there's my little blue butterfly who I'm nurturing and creating. I'm slowly setting her free.

It's good to see you working through the shame becomingbutterfly      It's some of the most difficult work in our healing process as children of PD parents.  

quote by becomingbutterfly

Anyone else had behaviors like this that they can't understand? How do you heal? How did you forgive yourself?

I know I'm a little late here, but I bullied my little brother too.  I felt guilt/shame for this even into my 30s.  However, I also apologized to him several times along the way (starting in my lower 20s) once I realized what I had done.  And I know the apologies helped him, and helped me as well.  My dad was raging at me outside when we were working - for no good reason.  I was the oldest son, so I always took the brunt of my father's rage from an early age.  My brother would run around hiding while we were working and never get punished, while I would work the whole time under my father's thumb (from about age 10 -18).  If I made a mistake, I was raged at.  Inside the house, my mother dominated and controlled everything.  The house was her place where nothing could be touched without her permission.  She manipulated and raged at us too, gaslighted and guilted us.

quote by becomingbutterfly

I thought all families yell, grab, and call names, and that most have to hit their kids sometimes to keep them in line. But deep down I wasn't sure about the hitting. I feel like some part of me should have known? Especially since I had to make excuses for myself for the worst of it.

We did this to our siblings in part because we were angry that our parents were continuously violating our boundaries, neglecting our needs, and then abusing us verbally/physically on top of it.  We had no outlets for our feelings - including our anger.  The eldest of each sex usually gets the brunt of the same sex parent.  My sister took the brunt of my mother's abuse until she moved out at 18.  And then it shifted to me, so at this point for about 4 years I was getting the brunt of both of their abuse. Then when I moved out at 18, my brother took on both of their abuse for 3 years until he moved out at 18.  

My brother actually told me he felt like I abandoned him when I moved away to college.  At that point, I was so far in the FOG, I thought my dad raged at me because I was faulty, and I thought my mother was perfect.  I know that because my brother thought I abandoned him - he knows that I was the one who had protected him to a great degree.  Not only did I shield him from the abuse, but I chased bullies around the school yard, set a bully straight at our high school for him, and also confronted my father about "disowning" him because he got an earring at age (18?).  My dad actually acted like a child when I scolded him for that.

It may help further to sit your sibs down (individually or collectively) at some point, with all that you've learned, and explain why you were the way you were.  I think an apology with full understanding of the issues is much more meaningful to our sibs.  When I did this with my brother as adults, I could see the understanding in his eyes after I told him what I was going through then.

[gladimhere]

Dear Butterfly,
I can't see how you even did anything wrong! You were an isolated, home-schooled, indoctrinated, bullied child yourself! All children mimic their parents - it's the most primal way of learning. If children aren't mimicking by a certian age, we wonder what is wrong with them. Of course it's wrong for someone to do what you did, but under the circumstances, how could you possibly, possibly have known how to behave? It's a miracle you even know how now, still being a teen at home? In fact, I'm curious - how did you figure it out? And then, the very minute you figured it out, you apologized, took responsibility, made amends and (the harderst part) changed your behavior!

You should be really proud of yourself!