Gaining more insight into why they do what they do

[Think About It...]

Recently I made a post in which I referenced a web site with forums (identical in appearance to this one, even down to the blue colors, so I presume the same application is being used) designed to be used by pwBPDs who were seeking to get better.

 I have learned a lot from reading the posts made by the poor souls who acknowledge having this terrible disorder, who suffer guilt and shame for the pain they have caused others, and who long to be better.

One of the things that we nons notice, from OUR perspective, is that in the early stages of the relationship the pwBPD seems to be our perfect partner.  We feel that they read us and say ALL the right things, and in some cases exhibit chameleon like characteristics as they are one person with us and then someone totally different with other lovers.  I can't speak for all but I suspect that many of us feel they are intentionally being disingenuous in order to "set the hook" and get us enmeshed.

But reading the posts of the pwBPDs leads me to understand that they do not have any sense of self, and struggle to know how to behave in different situations.  They report that they try to make their best guess after sizing up other individuals (as we all know, they are especially gifted at reading others' emotions - this has been proven in peer reviewed studies).  They say the things and act in ways which they believe will meet with our approval.  If they do, the pwBPDs continue with more of the same.

Viewed in this way, at least to me it no longer seems sinister.  These people are simply desperate to be accepted and loved... yet are incapable of understanding how to legitimately earn acceptance and love and establish the secure relationships they crave.  It is an especially cruel irony that their emotional deficiencies cause them to act in fashions which are so incredibly hurtful to us that they not only ruin our lives, but earn our anger/scorn/mistrust/disgust.

I have some limited medical training and have always believed that the cruelest diseases are those in which the individual is betrayed by his/her own body (such as neurological or autoimmune diseases), and those in which the person is robbed of his or her self (mental illness).

Just because my ex ruined my life does not mean I cannot feel sorry for her and her suffering.  I'm just grateful (although deeply frustrated and saddened) that I finally came to understand that there is absolutely nothing I can do to help her.

[Desert]

Recently I made a post in which I referenced a web site with forums (identical in appearance to this one, even down to the blue colors, so I presume the same application is being used) designed to be used by pwBPDs who were seeking to get better.

 I have learned a lot from reading the posts made by the poor souls who acknowledge having this terrible disorder, who suffer guilt and shame for the pain they have caused others, and who long to be better.

One of the things that we nons notice, from OUR perspective, is that in the early stages of the relationship the pwBPD seems to be our perfect partner.  We feel that they read us and say ALL the right things, and in some cases exhibit chameleon like characteristics as they are one person with us and then someone totally different with other lovers.  I can't speak for all but I suspect that many of us feel they are intentionally being disingenuous in order to "set the hook" and get us enmeshed.

But reading the posts of the pwBPDs leads me to understand that they do not have any sense of self, and struggle to know how to behave in different situations.  They report that they try to make their best guess after sizing up other individuals (as we all know, they are especially gifted at reading others' emotions - this has been proven in peer reviewed studies).  They say the things and act in ways which they believe will meet with our approval.  If they do, the pwBPDs continue with more of the same.

Viewed in this way, at least to me it no longer seems sinister.  These people are simply desperate to be accepted and loved... yet are incapable of understanding how to legitimately earn acceptance and love and establish the secure relationships they crave.  It is an especially cruel irony that their emotional deficiencies cause them to act in fashions which are so incredibly hurtful to us that they not only ruin our lives, but earn our anger/scorn/mistrust/disgust.

I have some limited medical training and have always believed that the cruelest diseases are those in which the individual is betrayed by his/her own body (such as neurological or autoimmune diseases), and those in which the person is robbed of his or her self (mental illness).

Just because my ex ruined my life does not mean I cannot feel sorry for her and her suffering.  I'm just grateful (although deeply frustrated and saddened) that I finally came to understand that there is absolutely nothing I can do to help her.

[lessonslearned]

Thanks for this, desert - makes complete sense, and offers an empathetic look at the BPD

[diotima]

Yes, it is cruel irony that their intense desire to be loved is at odds with their capacity to receive and accept love--that it triggers their intense fear of abandonment. It is a real Catch-22 situation. I think that the BPDs that are high on the N scale are a bit more manipulative--consciously--and probably would not be writing on those forums. Even so, they are desperate to be loved as well. They all want the love they never learned how to have as infants and small children because of their situations and possibly some predispositions that made it impossible for them to attach to their early caretakers. Hence they keep repeating the same patterns over and over, hoping for a different result. Basically, it is emotional underdevelopment and failure to individuate based on secure early attachment.
Diotima

[Rose Tiger]

My T was talking to me about how infants will constantly look at the parent for recognition that they exist.  A reassuring smile and they feel secure.  Neglect and they start panicking that they don't exist.  They need that mirroring to feel secure and then they are able to eventually separate and develop self.  If a baby misses this step, they will be constantly looking for mirroring to feel they exist.  That's where they are stuck.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[ellil]

I absolutely agree after reading a lot of what pwBPD write, and comparing it to my ex's actions. The thing that makes me saddest is that they jump through hoops to "make us like them" but then at the end, they cannot stand that they've "given up so much" to be liked, they resent us...this was evident in my ex's parting shot at me to my brother, "All I ever did was love her and she had no respect for what I gave up."

The whole thing is just a sad, horrific illness. We will get over our pain; the pwBPD will not.

M

[lessonslearned]

"All I ever did was love her and she had no respect for what I gave up."

Same here - mine paid more often on dates and contributed more financially than she "preferred" because she thought I would leave her if she didn't (no matter how much I said I wouldn't). She continued spending, and I sometimes didn't even notice, and assumed that if she wanted to do something she must want to do it. That same behavior then became one of the reasons she left, because she resented paying. Her behavior was her own response to her fear of abandonment, and then it became something she resented, even though she was doing something I never asked her to do, which then became a reason to leave.

[ellil]

"All I ever did was love her and she had no respect for what I gave up."

Same here - mine paid more often on dates and contributed more financially than she "preferred" because she thought I would leave her if she didn't (no matter how much I said I wouldn't). She continued spending, and I sometimes didn't even notice, and assumed that if she wanted to do something she must want to do it. That same behavior then became one of the reasons she left, because she resented paying. Her behavior was her own response to her fear of abandonment, and then it became something she resented, even though she was doing something I never asked her to do, which then became a reason to leave.

What's laughable about mine is he was/is an unemployed attorney, living in a one-bedroom attic apartment with an old Lexus (not in the apt, ). I MADE SURE I paid at least half. If he paid for a dinner (on unemployment funds), I bought the next. I shopped when I came up. If he weren't home when I arrived, I'd make a big pot of spaghetti gravy and meatballs for him. I totally carried my weight. He gave up nothing--except all that bending and twisting to be someone he thought I wanted. That's the resentment I was talking about, which he alluded to while tattling to my brother about our breakup (he knew I never told my family the status of our  r/s and also told my brother, "I'm writing you because someone just has to know what's happened").

M

[DivorcedNon]

Recently I made a post in which I referenced a web site with forums (identical in appearance to this one, even down to the blue colors, so I presume the same application is being used) designed to be used by pwBPDs who were seeking to get better.

Desert,

I was looking for your post with the link to the web site you mentioned but I could not find it. Would you please post the link to the web site again.

I go sometimes to the Experience Project and read posts from pwBPD. All I can say is that with all my issues, I am blessed not to have BPD and that my children do not have BPD. My ex and her children are not that lucky  ?

[Desert]

Recently I made a post in which I referenced a web site with forums (identical in appearance to this one, even down to the blue colors, so I presume the same application is being used) designed to be used by pwBPDs who were seeking to get better.

Desert,

I was looking for your post with the link to the web site you mentioned but I could not find it. Would you please post the link to the web site again.

I go sometimes to the Experience Project and read posts from pwBPD. All I can say is that with all my issues, I am blessed not to have BPD and that my children do not have BPD. My ex and her children are not that lucky  ?

It is part of A.J.Mahari's website.  Most of the posts are hers but there are a handful of others and their posts are very telling.

This link will take you directly to the forums:

http://borderlinepersonality.ca/board/index.php

I have only read the "public" areas.  Perhaps if one joins there is more available but I'm not prepared to do that at this time.

All the best, Desert

[DivorcedNon]

Desert,

Thanks for the link. I was not aware of that forum. Today I found another forum for pwBPD:

http://board.BPDrecovery.com/

Both of this forums are far less active than the FTF forum. It tells me that the pwBPD are lot less aware of their illness than their victims they hurt.

[Desert]

Desert,

Thanks for the link. I was not aware of that forum. Today I found another forum for pwBPD:

http://board.BPDrecovery.com/

Both of this forums are far less active than the FTF forum. It tells me that the pwBPD are lot less aware of their illness than their victims they hurt.

Thanks for uncovering that one, DN.

I remember reading that in past years and searching for it recently but I was unable to find it.  Mahari's was the only I was able to located.  But the BPDrecovery board has far more activity than Mahari's, and both (as you point out) have far less than FtF.

[Neglecture]

"All I ever did was love her and she had no respect for what I gave up."

Same here - mine paid more often on dates and contributed more financially than she "preferred" because she thought I would leave her if she didn't (no matter how much I said I wouldn't). She continued spending, and I sometimes didn't even notice, and assumed that if she wanted to do something she must want to do it. That same behavior then became one of the reasons she left, because she resented paying. Her behavior was her own response to her fear of abandonment, and then it became something she resented, even though she was doing something I never asked her to do, which then became a reason to leave.

When she became resentful, did she ever describe a philosophy of "return on investment" ?  My exBPDgf used that term and I found it rather peculiar.  Then when she was upset that we went dutch on our last date and described she thought I wasn't contributing enough because she made me two meals a week for me and bought groceries I absolutely agreed to pitch in.  She said, ok let's set up a "business meeting".  Peculiar terminology in the context of a romantic relationship again and both HEAVY red flags...

[lessonslearned]

When she became resentful, did she ever describe a philosophy of "return on investment" ? 

No - she said that "having to measure up financially by contributing as much as she was" made her feel like she "wasn't the woman" and that wasn't the dynamic she preferred. In other words she would only "feel like the woman" if she didn't have to worry about money. That's why she dumped me for a rich impulsive guy. I'm self employed - I can't pay for everything - this one still pushes my "I'm not enough of a man" button