question about property and being stone-walled

[Think About It...]

my "bf" is still getting mail here at this address.  his insurance cards came in the mail the other day. as well as his bank statements and bills.

also, he had one bill in his name, the water.  i asked him to cancel it in feb. when he moved out. they keep sending bills (?) constantly.  they had stopped delivering the water so i thought maybe he had finally cancelled it, but then it started up again.  i have not opened his mail (and will not) and i don't think i can cancel it for him.

plus, he has a chair, a dresser, knife set, dishes, pots and pans, clothes, speakers, wall hangings, and a bunch of other little things here.

i have texted him about this and asked how he would like to handle these things, which seem to be important. 

he never replied.

first of all, WHY wouldn't he and what is he doing? is it fear of abandonment? is he keeping the hook in? is he still confused? is he planning to come back? is he just irresponsible?  how would this be explained as a BPD trait...

second, what should *i* do about this?  i bought another couch and got rid of the one we got together. i got a new chair which is sitting awkwardly next to his chair..there is not enough room for both of them.  i would like to get rid of his stuff if he is not coming back.

i have my own abandonment issues and fears or letting go and closure and for now, i am staying with him and hoping and praying we both get healthier and work it out. 

in the meantime, what do i do with his stuff, and his mail, especially if he is not responding?

(i don't have money for storage and think that would be enabling him anyway.  i don't have his address to forward mail. i don't know if i can cancel the water as it is in his name plus i want HIM to be responsible for calling them anyway and dealing with it, right?)

thank you! need advice on how to deal.

[wdone]

my "bf" is still getting mail here at this address.  his insurance cards came in the mail the other day. as well as his bank statements and bills.

also, he had one bill in his name, the water.  i asked him to cancel it in feb. when he moved out. they keep sending bills (?) constantly.  they had stopped delivering the water so i thought maybe he had finally cancelled it, but then it started up again.  i have not opened his mail (and will not) and i don't think i can cancel it for him.

plus, he has a chair, a dresser, knife set, dishes, pots and pans, clothes, speakers, wall hangings, and a bunch of other little things here.

i have texted him about this and asked how he would like to handle these things, which seem to be important. 

he never replied.

first of all, WHY wouldn't he and what is he doing? is it fear of abandonment? is he keeping the hook in? is he still confused? is he planning to come back? is he just irresponsible?  how would this be explained as a BPD trait...

second, what should *i* do about this?  i bought another couch and got rid of the one we got together. i got a new chair which is sitting awkwardly next to his chair..there is not enough room for both of them.  i would like to get rid of his stuff if he is not coming back.

i have my own abandonment issues and fears or letting go and closure and for now, i am staying with him and hoping and praying we both get healthier and work it out. 

in the meantime, what do i do with his stuff, and his mail, especially if he is not responding?

(i don't have money for storage and think that would be enabling him anyway.  i don't have his address to forward mail. i don't know if i can cancel the water as it is in his name plus i want HIM to be responsible for calling them anyway and dealing with it, right?)

thank you! need advice on how to deal.

[wdone]

when i say i want to "get rid of his stuff" i mean get it to him...i am not the kind of person who would set it out on the curb or give it to goodwill as a friend suggested. 

i am starting to feel very stuck.

if he is NOT coming back, i don't want to look at his stuff.

and i am confused by his not responding or coming to get it.

he also has a nearly brand new, very expensive bed here.

[desperate dutchman]

I am not sure that this is politically correct but i had roommates in college that moved on and didnt take care of the logistics we returned the mail to the post office as undeliverable. His insurance company might get his attention when they cancel or rerate him
As to his stuff can you pack it up and put in a corner of a room it will take less room and you can throw a sheet over it. Find out if there is abandoned property law where you live and text him the date that it goes   Not mean just matter of fact

[wdone]

ok thanks...

wow, it is so hard for me to have strong boundaries. i do feel like i am being mean. 

the sheet over his things is a good idea.  my place is pretty small and i have family coming to stay and i want it to look good, or at least not so disheveled and smushed together.

i will look into the laws maybe...

i think he may come back.  i hope i don't sound crazy saying that..it's just the pattern and why wouldn't he have gotten his stuff?

[Validation78]

Hi Wdone:
   I can't speak to the law, I just know what I would do. On the mail, I would write: Moved: No forwarding address, and give it back to the mailman. On the furniture and stuff: I would send him an email, and give him a date by which to come and get it and tell him you are going to get rid of it. If he doesn't respond or come for it, follow through and get rid of it. What happens because of all of this is not your responsibility. It is his responsibility, and he will have to deal with the consequences. This is OUR problem, we think we can save them from their bad and irresponsible actions. We shouldn't, and we can't, plain and simple.
   I know you are hoping you will still get back together, and maybe you will. Just because you do these things doesn't mean that you won't get back together. In the meantime, you will be doing what you need to do, for yourself. Take this time to take care of your needs!

Best Wishes,
Val78

[Steph]

Hi Wdone:
   I can't speak to the law, I just know what I would do. On the mail, I would write: Moved: No forwarding address, and give it back to the mailman. On the furniture and stuff: I would send him an email, and give him a date by which to come and get it and tell him you are going to get rid of it. If he doesn't respond or come for it, follow through and get rid of it. What happens because of all of this is not your responsibility. It is his responsibility, and he will have to deal with the consequences. This is OUR problem, we think we can save them from their bad and irresponsible actions. We shouldn't, and we can't, plain and simple.
   I know you are hoping you will still get back together, and maybe you will. Just because you do these things doesn't mean that you won't get back together. In the meantime, you will be doing what you need to do, for yourself. Take this time to take care of your needs!

Best Wishes,
Val78

 I agree with DD and this...return the mail, find a legal date you can move his stuff on, and email him with that date. At the approach of that date, write one more...and then, if nothing, donate, etc. Make sure you are legally ok to do so.  if there are small things, then put them in a box in the garage.

I would NOT consider this an indication of him wanting to come back..to me, its laziness, apathy, etc.

Our schizophrenic former housemate moved into a group home a year ago..and his mail STILL comes here, we still send it off. His mom came and got his stuff, he barely did..has nothing to do with him coming back here, but everything to do with how he lives his life.

 Steph

[wdone]

Hi Wdone:
   I can't speak to the law, I just know what I would do. On the mail, I would write: Moved: No forwarding address, and give it back to the mailman. On the furniture and stuff: I would send him an email, and give him a date by which to come and get it and tell him you are going to get rid of it. If he doesn't respond or come for it, follow through and get rid of it. What happens because of all of this is not your responsibility. It is his responsibility, and he will have to deal with the consequences. This is OUR problem, we think we can save them from their bad and irresponsible actions. We shouldn't, and we can't, plain and simple.
   I know you are hoping you will still get back together, and maybe you will. Just because you do these things doesn't mean that you won't get back together. In the meantime, you will be doing what you need to do, for yourself. Take this time to take care of your needs!

Best Wishes,
Val78

for whatever reason, your post made me realize that i am still having regret for kicking him out in feb. he felt SUCH betrayal and so abandoned i think. he has not forgiven me for that. 

also, i once wrote on the dry erase board some things he has borrowed after he had moved out when we were still spending time together (a book, a sweatshirt of mine) and he saw it ans pointed to it and said "WHAT'S THIS?" all angry and shocked and i said "it's just stuff you have of mine that i dont want to forget about..you can keep using them, i just want to make sure to get them back over here eventually.."

and he was so hurt and mad and said "if you want to play that game, we will. you have a lot of my stuff here still!"

( he had not taken it when he left. i did not ask him to leave any of it). it is nice having a nice knife set to use, though.

anyway, i realized i think that if i send him a text or return his mail, he will feel more abandonment and betrayal . i am sure he will, in fact.  and he feels slighted so easily and takes it to another level where he punishes me, and/or pulls away even more.

 i guess i realized i don't want him to feel more pain or abandonment. 

i think i am ok with putting that ahead of my need to de-clutter for the moment. 

maybe that it considered not putting myslelf first, but in reflecting about this, i think it is the safe,loving thing to do...?

i just have pride come up, that tells me i am being stupid and that he will come get his stuff eventually in a cold way that will humiliate me. 

i am reading mastery of love again and i keep thinking i don't want to play the game of "power over" etc. i want to be loving all the time and not afraid or in ego...

[yeeter]

i guess i realized i don't want him to feel more pain or abandonment. 

i think i am ok with putting that ahead of my need to de-clutter for the moment. 

maybe that it considered not putting myslelf first, but in reflecting about this, i think it is the safe,loving thing to do...?

i just have pride come up, that tells me i am being stupid and that he will come get his stuff eventually in a cold way that will humiliate me. 

i am reading mastery of love again and i keep thinking i don't want to play the game of "power over" etc. i want to be loving all the time and not afraid or in ego...

Hi wdone,

Its obvious you are giving this a lot of thought, and you want to be a kind, loving person.   

There is a very real danger though, that you are not being kind and loving to YOURSELF.

Why would you take on the task of continuing to care for things of his, when he doesnt demonstrate care for them himself?

Some time ago there was a quote here that I felt was really profound - and spoke to the heart of enabling.

"I refuse to care about 'xyz' more than you do'

If he cared about those things, he would come get them.  He doesnt.  So why should you care about it more than he does?

[Steph]

>> i guess i realized i don't want him to feel more pain or abandonment.
<<


   Umm...who is it that  is feeling pain and abandonment here? 

Boy...u are completely ignoring what is being done to you, your life, your desires, your goals,  for this guy who isnt even there, who has told you to go away...based on a hope he might come back.. I see you wanting to take a step to reclaim your home and yet, you wont, out of fear of hurting him. I see NO evidence that he even cares..and even if this causes him some discomfort, that is a logical consequence for him being away for all this time. I did it when my H and I separated. I needed MY space, while he had his. I put his stuff in boxes that I didnt want,made sure he had the option to get it, and if he didnt want it, it went away.

You should give him the chance to get his stuff, and if not, then move on...

If he does...the same thing will happen over again. He will do this stuff over and over again.

  What is your therapist saying?
 

[wdone]

i guess i realized i don't want him to feel more pain or abandonment. 

i think i am ok with putting that ahead of my need to de-clutter for the moment. 

maybe that it considered not putting myslelf first, but in reflecting about this, i think it is the safe,loving thing to do...?

i just have pride come up, that tells me i am being stupid and that he will come get his stuff eventually in a cold way that will humiliate me. 

i am reading mastery of love again and i keep thinking i don't want to play the game of "power over" etc. i want to be loving all the time and not afraid or in ego...

Hi wdone,

Its obvious you are giving this a lot of thought, and you want to be a kind, loving person.   

There is a very real danger though, that you are not being kind and loving to YOURSELF.

Why would you take on the task of continuing to care for things of his, when he doesnt demonstrate care for them himself?

Some time ago there was a quote here that I felt was really profound - and spoke to the heart of enabling.

"I refuse to care about 'xyz' more than you do'

If he cared about those things, he would come get them.  He doesnt.  So why should you care about it more than he does?

thank you for your gentle response..it made me think about it a bit more...in a different way.

[wdone]

>> i guess i realized i don't want him to feel more pain or abandonment.
<<


   Umm...who is it that  is feeling pain and abandonment here?  |>

yes, for sure, we BOTH are.[/color]

Boy...u are completely ignoring what is being done to you, your life, your desires, your goals,  for this guy who isnt even there, who has told you to go away...based on a hope he might come back..

what is "being done to me?" is this not a victim stance?  like i said, i am choosing to wait, even though it feels more like i don't even have to choose..it's just what is happening for me.[/color]

I see you wanting to take a step to reclaim your home and yet, you wont, out of fear of hurting him.

[color=pink]i only want to change things up and get rid of stuff if he is NOT coming back, AND i never liked that stupid chair.

I see NO evidence that he even cares..and even if this causes him some discomfort, that is a logical consequence for him being away for all this time.

he asked for space to work on himself so we could have a chance, so how does that mean he does not care? or do you mean about his stuff?

I did it when my H and I separated. I needed MY space, while he had his. I put his stuff in boxes that I didnt want,made sure he had the option to get it, and if he didnt want it, it went away.

did your husband pick up his stuff? were you taking space or broken up?[/color]

You should give him the chance to get his stuff, and if not, then move on...

If he does...the same thing will happen over again. He will do this stuff over and over again.

  What is your therapist saying?

she just nods her head and says it is a tough decision and hard to know what to do, and that she thinks deep down only i know and can decide if i want to wait or take action. she keeps calling him a commitment phobe and says with work, he can change. she says i am going through a lot of loss right now and that this is a crisis so to take things slow and take care of myself by sleeping and eating, ect
  

[wdone]

>> i guess i realized i don't want him to feel more pain or abandonment.
<<


   Umm...who is it that  is feeling pain and abandonment here?  |>

yes, for sure, we BOTH are.[/color]

Boy...u are completely ignoring what is being done to you, your life, your desires, your goals,  for this guy who isnt even there, who has told you to go away...based on a hope he might come back..

what is "being done to me?" is this not a victim stance?  like i said, i am choosing to wait, even though it feels more like i don't even have to choose..it's just what is happening for me.[/color]

I see you wanting to take a step to reclaim your home and yet, you wont, out of fear of hurting him.

[color=pink]i only want to change things up and get rid of stuff if he is NOT coming back, AND i never liked that stupid chair.

I see NO evidence that he even cares..and even if this causes him some discomfort, that is a logical consequence for him being away for all this time.

he asked for space to work on himself so we could have a chance, so how does that mean he does not care? or do you mean about his stuff?

I did it when my H and I separated. I needed MY space, while he had his. I put his stuff in boxes that I didnt want,made sure he had the option to get it, and if he didnt want it, it went away.

did your husband pick up his stuff? were you taking space or broken up?[/color]

You should give him the chance to get his stuff, and if not, then move on...

If he does...the same thing will happen over again. He will do this stuff over and over again.

  What is your therapist saying?

she just nods her head and says it is a tough decision and hard to know what to do, and that she thinks deep down only i know and can decide if i want to wait or take action. she keeps calling him a commitment phobe and says with work, he can change. she says i am going through a lot of loss right now and that this is a crisis so to take things slow and take care of myself by sleeping and eating, ect
  

[wdone]

sorry, colors got all crazy and you couldn't see the pink so i tried purple and then it got all weird. i hope you can understand my responses!

[123Phoebe]

Boy...u are completely ignoring what is being done to you, your life, your desires, your goals,  for this guy who isnt even there, who has told you to go away...based on a hope he might come back..

what is "being done to me?" is this not a victim stance? 

Yes, you are a victim of your own thoughts based on hope.  It is your own thoughts that are keeping you stuck.

900+ posts regarding his behaviors and the relationship is still going dysfunctionally strong... The people here are trying to help you get unstuck.  Shift your perspective.  Asking you to try things that work... 

he asked for space to work on himself so we could have a chance, so how does that mean he does not care?

If it's as simple as the quote above, then give him his space to do his thing and take the time to work on you.  Why all the fretting?  Texting him...  Getting into abusive exchanges...?   

Is it really that simple?

It's a start!

It's the beginning of unenmeshing yourself.  Not worrying about what he's doing or doing it with.  Not worrying whether he'll feel abandoned or not.  You have NO CONTROL over his feelings, behaviors or actions.  But there are consequences to behaviors...

Codependent No More!

You haven't lived together since February = get rid of his stuff that's in your place.  Doesn't matter that you kicked him out.  He no longer lives there, give him the opportunity to get his stuff, or get rid of it some other way.

Same goes for his mail.  Send it back.  It's the legal and right thing to do.

And it's healthy, functional, it makes sense; it's not unhealthy, dysfunctional and crazy making.  It helps you get clearer and gain perspective, it helps him account for responsibility; it's a start to doing things another way.  A way that WORKS.

anyway, i realized i think that if i send him a text or return his mail, he will feel more abandonment and betrayal . i am sure he will, in fact.  and he feels slighted so easily and takes it to another level where he punishes me, and/or pulls away even more.

This is your own fear talking.  YOURS, you own it.  How could he possibly pull away even more than he has?

What I'm getting from your posts is that you will pose a question, ask for advice and personal situations, then talk yourself out of doing what needs to be done, what your gut and instincts are screaming for you to do.  It's a hallmark trait of being in the throws of a dysfunctional, crazy-making relationship and it's called F.O.G. -Fear, Obligation and Guilt.  Yes, it's hard stepping outside of the fog, but in order for there to be any sort of changes, it has to be done. 

I know you don't like being told what to do, this is one of those things that's a MUST though!  Otherwise, it's the same old thing over and over and over and over again...  To quote Dr. Phil: 'And how's that workin' for you?'

Listen to Steph!  Read all of her posts again and what she says to other people, too.  Take in what she says..  Absorb it.  She's one of the success stories here.  She knows what she's talking about...

 

[wdone]

i know steph knows what she's talking about...she is one of the people i really respect on here.
i am listening to her and aksing her questions...

he WILL feel more abandonment and betrayal and i totally own that i have abandonment issues, too. i already said that.

i think i want feeedback or am looking for feedback like you said but in a way that is supportive of truly LOVING, truly being compassionate, undertsanding, being patient, validating what HE is goign through. 

in my 12 step programs, we do focus a lot on MY part, how am I being selfish etc.  i can be selfish and demanding. 

a healthy way to change my behavior might be to not act out of anger or selfishness, and to hang onto his things while he is in so much dysfunstion and working in himsefl.

it's funny, too. i prayed and after i wrote on here and read replies, i re-arranged the furniture to work and it actually looks GREAT! AND i have like 6 family members coming this week and i NEED the chair and his bed in the guest room, so God is doing for me and showing me what i could not do for myself.

i don't care that his mail is coming here. i guess  a part of me likes it! (JUST BEING HONEST!) 

and the water, i am still praying about...i guess i can call and ask them if i can cancel it even if it is in his name.  i just don't want to clean up his mess.

[wdone]

and pheobe 123, if i may say so, i have changed an awful lot. 

i know i don't have to explain or justify BUT,

i have leanred to set better boundaries,
am detaching more
and focusing more on myself
have gained a greater faith in God
am an example to women (who keep reaching out to me like crazy for my advice and help)
have developed a much greater capacity for love and acceptance than i ever thought possible
have learned about "staying power" in a relationship
am more flexible and less controlling
take better care of myself
quit smoking
etc

this would be a good topic. how have we made progress...maybe i will start it.

btw, did you ever answer my feedback and queitons to you in another thread? i never heard back. maybe i missed it.

[yeeter]

I had a very good friend that got tired of hearing me complain about my marriage.

In fact, she pretty much dropped me.

First she sent me an article on the difference between being a martyr, and being a victim.  Victims get to complain a little and then adapt and move on

Martyrs get some dysfunctional need filled from the role.

I'm sensing some frustration on this here that are trying to help yo wdone.   Be careful, you could end up driving them away (as I did.  But I eventually got my self squared away and all is good again.  But I need friends...)

[wdone]

I had a very good friend that got tired of hearing me complain about my marriage.

In fact, she pretty much dropped me.

First she sent me an article on the difference between being a martyr, and being a victim.  Victims get to complain a little and then adapt and move on

Martyrs get some dysfunctional need filled from the role.

I'm sensing some frustration on this here that are trying to help yo wdone.   Be careful, you could end up driving them away (as I did.  But I eventually got my self squared away and all is good again.  But I need friends...)

i hear you.

i just have learned to better stand up for myself, and to be direct. i have always been strong willed and opinionated but let that go a bit over the years. i am feeling stronger and i do appreciate peoples help and support, a lot.

i just need to express myself and when i am feeling judged, i do get defensive as we are all in the same boat or have been, and we are on equal plane..no one here has all the answers and no one is better than anyone else. 

i would rather be not liked than not authentic.
thanks for your feedback!

[123Phoebe]

No wdone, I felt no need or desire to reply to your other thread.  To justify myself.  I still stand firm on all that I had to say in my original post.  In no way, did your responses/questions of me have anything to do with the topic that you started.

No hard feelings.

[wdone]

No wdone, I felt no need or desire to reply to your other thread.  To justify myself.  I still stand firm on all that I had to say in my original post.  In no way, did your responses/questions of me have anything to do with the topic that you started.

No hard feelings.

ok, that is fine. no hard feelings here either...

i think if i remember, i was just asking if you were in a relationship and things like that.  it helps me a lot to know where people are coming from and what their situation is..that's all.

none of us has to justify anything...