Are WE the nutty ones?

[Think About It...]

Reading all the whirling posts in the last couple of days I see a common theme repeatedly.

If I dare it goes like this...Left the ex for me...back to ex...back to me...on to new replacement...back to ex...me...replacement...me...ex...replacement #2...back to ex...replacement # 1...me...ex again...replacement #2...gawd I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it.

Are we completely nuts putting up with ANY of this partner merry go round fun house mirror stuff. This is not attractive or redeeming behavior for ANYONE. It must be hell being BPD! My heart goes out to them truly but IT'S ABOUT US NOW. Let's quit trying to figure them out(why why why) and get down to what is really the problem here which is us sharing this Mr. Toads wild ride with them on the bus or off? Me I'm getting on the bus. 

I do believe the best thing to do is leave them in the exhaust of their own making...
no guilt no remorse and NO LOOKING BACK!

We paid the fare. Agree?

[ShadowBoxer]

Reading all the whirling posts in the last couple of days I see a common theme repeatedly.

If I dare it goes like this...Left the ex for me...back to ex...back to me...on to new replacement...back to ex...me...replacement...me...ex...replacement #2...back to ex...replacement # 1...me...ex again...replacement #2...gawd I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it.

Are we completely nuts putting up with ANY of this partner merry go round fun house mirror stuff. This is not attractive or redeeming behavior for ANYONE. It must be hell being BPD! My heart goes out to them truly but IT'S ABOUT US NOW. Let's quit trying to figure them out(why why why) and get down to what is really the problem here which is us sharing this Mr. Toads wild ride with them on the bus or off? Me I'm getting on the bus. 

I do believe the best thing to do is leave them in the exhaust of their own making...
no guilt no remorse and NO LOOKING BACK!

We paid the fare. Agree?

[berry]

Shadowboxer:  loved the reminder of the insanity.  That is my exact journey.  Ex and replacement #2, back and forth for months.  I thought I was the crazy one.  Having a tough day (after a good few weeks) and just need to remember NC works.  Thanks.

[jb1]

Shadow, I can really appreciate everything you're saying. However for some of us we can't or don't want to leave. Some of us have children with our ex BPD. Then there are others who genuinely care about them and love them. It makes the detachment process extremely difficult. There is a part of me like you that wants to get as far away as I can from her. Another part wants to hold her and I am also a co-parent with her. It's damning either way and the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with.

[ShadowBoxer]

Maybe I need to check myself out...what I do know...I am VERY ANGRY...with her ...the illness...her parents and family history...the idiot exes who play her sickness...and with me for freely getting on the merry go round. I have mixed emotions right now that I feel in retrospect I need to sort out to again become the person I was before this happened. But anger is the predominant feature with me right now. And the exes that keep playing with her this way are just frustrating. I am so sorry that this ever entered my life...so much destruction in such a short time. This has really been a form of hell on earth. At the same time I so hope the BPDgf in my life finds health and happiness...but the way things are going her life is going to be more of the same. I have faith I will get better...I need to start pacing myself right now...to settle down and start working on healing for myself and quit focusing on her outcomes. Because I know she will be back to re-engage and I will need to be strong and neutral and not feed her insanity by showing how effected I have become. Time for healing of self now. She has her path to follow...and yes..it hurts to walk away...

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[jb1]

Sounds to me like you're on the right board. You know its over but you're still angry it is and part of you wants it back. You need to detach, that's why we're all here. I know how bad it hurts believe me. I expect I'll be on this phase a while before I can move on. I'm ok with it.

[Rise]

what I do know...I am VERY ANGRY... But anger is the predominant feature with me right now

ShadowBoxer,
It's okay to be angry. You've got a lot to be angry about. Anger isn't a negative thing, as long as we don't get stuck in it, or let it drive up to take negative actions. What you are experiencing is perfectly natural, and we all experience it at some point. It's part of the Five Stages of Grief, also known as the Kubler-Ross Model (The stages are Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance). We are in fact grieving our relationship, and we're going to end up experiencing all these things eventually. Sometimes we speed through one stage, and get stuck in another. Sometimes we move out of one stage only to return to it weeks later. That's all normal. It's a complex process, and hardly as linear as we would like it to be. And we all have to work through it at our own pace. Some of us take longer than others, and that's fine.

Sometimes the best thing we can do is just step back, take a deep breath, and allow ourselves to feel. You may just have to let yourself be okay with being angry. Feel it, process it, and move through it. Don't let it consume you. Don't let it drag you down. Just let it be. Fighting our emotions is never a winning battle.

Eventually, we all do need to take a look at ourselves and examine why we put ourselves in the position that we did. And it shows a lot of insight recognizing that. We do in time, need to take a long hard look at ourselves, and face down our own issues. This is a process that in many ways is even more difficult than healing from the trauma of our relationships. But not everyone is ready or able to take that step yet. Some of us need to heal our immediate wounds a little more before we tackle the bigger issues. As suzn said, when you feel strong enough to tackle the bigger issues, you should check out Personal Inventory. If you're not to that point yet, no worries. Healing is not a race. It can't be rushed. It will happen when you're ready for it.

Best Luck,
Rise

[ShadowBoxer]

Thanx Rise...I know you are correct...and I need to listen to those with more experience. This has been very humbling for sure...

[Ex-Vamp-Slayer]

It's funny or not, but I used to have a saying when I was in the relationship, "the only problem with our relationship is me". At the time I meant it differently than I would now. I had no business being in that relationship, but I have grown so much after it ended I can not but be greatfull as I had a lot to learn about me.

I am changing for the better and becoming emotionally healthy for the first time in years. Sorry I had to go through it. The one thing I do know is that anger is a part of the relationship. I had FOO anger that was triggered by my ex. The interesting thing is that she would trigger it and I had a right to be angry so I never could deal with my FOO anger or my core anger until after I was out of the relationship and focused on my core anger. I used my ex as a barometer of how much anger I had left. It is now gone and I can really start to focus on who I am and what I want in my life.

My only regret is that I didn't work on this years ago, but I am where I am...

[John70]

"She conditioned me to believe...She was very convincing"

I'm sure I'm not the only one for whom that rings a very loud bell indeed. It was always me that felt unreasonable, always me that examined myself for how I could do things differently, better, with more understanding and compassion. I'd describe the relationship to friends and they'd look at me as if it wasn't me talking to them. I have firm boundaries in relationships yet here they were blurred and always moving. Believe me, I can argue my point well yet it never seemed to be grasped despite the initial promises, the expressed guilt and apparent understanding.

I think what happens is that, at least in a shortish, two year r/s such as mine (I can't imagine what it's like longer term or being married or have children in such a toxic environment and I really feel for those that have that as their reality) we are so conditioned by the convincing words of pedestal-placing and adoration that we can't possibly believe that this person would do anything to hurt us. We hold fast to that and it structures all that follows. Even when the actions are screaming otherwise.

We aren't mad, we're conditioned to accept someone else's version of reality. Therapy may be needed to help you see the world through your own eyes again. I think it's ironic that a disorder stemming from a lack of a sense of self robs other people of theirs. Ironic, but also the only outcome really.

[RUkidding]

I did not have the me , ex , me , ex thing it was just the two of us. But I did have every other type of crazy making action . Was the most stressful thing I have ever gone through. And I do think the personal reflection and work is most helpful but agree with you in moving on , not looking back , no remorse. I believe sometimes care more about them then ourselves because their lives seem so sad and though we may not know exactly what is wrong with them we do know something is not right. If or when I run into another person with BPD I know that I won't be able to help them and I will help myself and stay as far away as I can . It is so sad I still do love my ex but know the Only way for me to maintain my sanity is to keep her as my ex. She like most I've read about here is in denial and can't or won't seek the help that she needs and I can only wish she would get. She was a beautiful person inside and out but when the traits were on display,  which was mostly with me , life was pure hell .

[BPD Magnet 1]

Thanks John.This has nearly killed me.
  
"She conditioned me to believe...She was very convincing"..I took the worst beating of my life.I had to get into ''T'' and now i may have to possibly get on Depression Meds.He is going to monitor me for a while.

  Six years i changed everything about me and in the end i was discarded with no sence of self.It has been a very painful ride indeed.I did more for her than i ever did in all my relationships.I changed alot to appease her and her thoughts and ideas.I followed her right into a self destructive world.Filled with demons and evil.
  I truly believed there was something wrong with me and it was ALL ME.

[ShadowBoxer]

My relationship was a year and a half...one full year of living together(they do move fast). My friends I consider myself lucky...6 years! . My heart goes out to you...and her.

[PDQuick]

My relationship was a year and a half...one full year of living together (they do move fast). My friends I consider myself lucky...6 years! . My heart goes out to you...and her.

Shadow',

I think it is more appropriate to say that you both moved fast... if I read your story correctly, the you had a live in girlfriend six months into a marital separation - 27 year marriage | divorce proceeding haven't been filed. That's fast.  I'm not saying this to make you feel bad, I did the same "not too mature" things in my relationship.  Many of us made bad choices.

It wasn't all our fault.  This is so true.  But it isn't all their fault either.  We did these things together.  Now we need to understand their part and that takes really understanding how this disorder manifests.  We then need to understand and own our part.  It helps no one to over or under estimate our roles in this.

I think its helpful for us to remember Bowen's Family theory about emotional maturity:

This is Bowen "family systems" theory.  The theory was developed by Murray Bowen, M.D. in the late 1940_

[ShadowBoxer]

Wow...BAM...thanx PDQuick!

[OTH]

LOL...want "IT" back...No I don't want IT back...but I wouldn't mind have the idealizing girl friend back...but the Borderline stuff...NO WAY! And the idealizing girl friend...that was just an actor reading a script.

love pdq's post... But to add on. Who's script do you think she was reading from? Do you not think the idealizing stuff was part of the borderline stuff? So often we blame our BPD partner for having unrealistic expectations. Did we suffer that same issue?

[John70]

It helps no one to over or under estimate our roles in this.

There's so much to think about re your post. I think that's what makes the fallout from detaching that,much worse. We know in our hearts that we were part of the dance and asking why raises some difficult issues for us to face. At least we have the opportunity to grow and to learn if we so choose. It's not about individual blame but rather the dynamic that grew from what we both brought to the table. Thanks for helping me not lose sight of that PDQ.

[Clearmind]

Shadow, our relationships floundered and we wonder what happened _

[Rewards2]

Many people write the same thing here, that they did more than they did for any one and they were squeezed down to nothing and then dumped.
My thought is if we say one of the traits of BPD is the that their sense of identity is confused and they don't know who they are,then what does it say about us that we allowed ourselves to believe them that it was our all fault.
In my own relationship for many yearss I did believe that if I could just be a little bit kinder and more loving to here that was all she needed.  And in a way it is true.
But for it to work it has to come from us, not be forced upon us.
So the very fact that I believed her and tried for so long to "give" her what she wanted shows a deep lack of awareness of my own self and maybe even worse. If I was scared of being yelled at, how did I ever allow that.
One answer is that my mother used to yell at me in a similar way.
So we all do have things to work on.
Onward and upward to the fight for true health of body, mind and soul.

[Ex-Vamp-Slayer]

I refuse to be a victim in that relationship. She moved in 30 days after meeting her. I told her I did not want her to, but she did any way. 9 months ago I would have played the victim and said that she tricked me and moved in without my permission. Really? I am in my 50s and  very successful and she tricked me? I stayed in the relationship because she forced me? Did she violate my boundaries or did I not enforce them?

I love the saying when you point a finger at someone you have four pointing back at yourself. Time for me to man up and be honest with myself about why I was in the relationship, what trauma I need(ed) to resolve, and grow. That relation was a direct result of my"emotional immaturity".

I have spent all the time imm going to spend on how I was wronged by my ex or how crazy she was. I want to spend the time on how I wronged my self and my issues...

[DreamGirl]

We're all a little nutty, no?

I don't like the victim stance either and I don't really care for the reference "predator" pouncing on it's "prey". Is that the case, or is it seizing of an opportunity?  I suppose that is what has lead me not to believe in the "siren's" call of the Borderline that seems to be a common theme around here.  

It's the perception, I guess.  

Was my husband stupid and naive? I don't think so. I think he was desperate for something that he struggled giving himself. Some sort of narcissistic neediness to be the "best". He felt like her whole world because he really was. He manipulated her as much as she did him. Each wanting their own pay off and validity from the other and each not realizing that it's not how it works. So was it her or was it him?

I think it was both. They used each other. Neither really cared about anyone else around them, especially each other.

Shadowboxer, affairs are destructive little occurences. I feel like everyone loses out - the husband, the wife, the mistress. I think in your situation, no one was really the victim. Just a lot of pathological behavior that lead to a marriage of 26 years coming to a standstill while you all looked outside to fulfill something that was defunct within.

So, in retrospect, I think this was perhaps a certain crime of opportunity. Healthy minded adults, after leaving a marriage of 27 years, don't usually jump into these whirlwind relationships. You reconcile the failed relationship first giving yourself a lot of time to heal. You seek counseling and you give yourself time before you become committed to someone else - being fair to yourself, the former spouse, and the new relationship. I also know that other healthy minded adults who met someone who was still in [a 27 year] marriage, not filed for divorce yet, might not think he was quite ready for a relationship just yet. I know I wouldn't date someone in that situation. (Also makes me kinda question that platonic friend of yours by the way)

So while yes, you were in a particularly vulnerable state... seeking something or someone... and you tried to find it in the BPD girlfriend. She just simply could not give it to you. So I suppose it's your fault too.