No idea how to react

[Think About It...]

Hi Folks,

My dBPDw has been saying she is going to move out for awhile now, I dont believe she will be better off by herself, we had separated a couple of years ago, because she wanted a separation, did not work out so well for her, and we reconciled. I think she uses the threat of separation to somehow control the situation,(at least in her own mind), because she is aware that my feelings about divorce are that it should only be a last resort.

I have come to understand that I myself have been codependant in this marriage. I finally set a boundary recently, that is when she begins raising her voice and being verbally abusive, I leave the house and go for a walk, and now with advice from this group I learned to announce that I would be back, just that I wouldnt continue allowing this behaviour towards me.

So the last conversation was considerably better in tone than the previous ones.
So far when she talks about getting an apartment I stay quiet as I can and try not to let her know how much it bothers me.

Any words on how to handle this kind of thing?

[Carter]

Hi Folks,

My dBPDw has been saying she is going to move out for awhile now, I dont believe she will be better off by herself, we had separated a couple of years ago, because she wanted a separation, did not work out so well for her, and we reconciled. I think she uses the threat of separation to somehow control the situation,(at least in her own mind), because she is aware that my feelings about divorce are that it should only be a last resort.

I have come to understand that I myself have been codependant in this marriage. I finally set a boundary recently, that is when she begins raising her voice and being verbally abusive, I leave the house and go for a walk, and now with advice from this group I learned to announce that I would be back, just that I wouldnt continue allowing this behaviour towards me.

So the last conversation was considerably better in tone than the previous ones.
So far when she talks about getting an apartment I stay quiet as I can and try not to let her know how much it bothers me.

Any words on how to handle this kind of thing?

[desperate dutchman]

Sorry you have to deal with this     read the lessons at the right (detachment and mindfulness)  Whenever I feel that my wife behavior is bothering me i take it as a sign that I am not as detached as I think I am  any time I allow someone else to control how I feel is a sign of my codependency

[tuum est61]

So far when she talks about getting an apartment I stay quiet as I can and try not to let her know how much it bothers me.

Any words on how to handle this kind of thing?

You probably already know that you have no control as to whether she moves or not, so there's no value in trying to talk her out of it.   All that will do will just be taking her bait and potentially escalating the situation. Ignoring her comments are invalidating for her feelings and because it bothers you, keeping quiet invalidates you as well. 

Try some simple validation.
"Talking about moving out means things must be very difficult for you here."
"Not being sure about where you want to live has to be difficult."
"Things must be really bothering you for you to talk about moving out."

Validating statements can sound patronizing but they accomplish the basic objective of letting her know you heard her, validating her.  They remind you that this about her feelings and not yours, validating you.   

And it does work to prevent a fight. 

[waverider]

Its always a fine line between rising to the bait, ignoring something that has been said (invalidating), and validating without being baited.

Also moving beyond simply saying and doing the right thing, and actually thinking it inside takes time. You can act subjective, but it is hard to feel it.

[andywho]

Hey carter.

It was when i started to set boundaries and not giving in to her demands that the sht hit the fan here.

As she did not get her will and i started to disengage her on several occasions she started to use the threat about breaking up with me and move back to her home town. So one day she told me "this is it, im leaving you now if i dont get xxxx from you and you do xxxxx for me.

I then said to her something like this:

I can see you are angry and sad... i understand how you feel. I would also feel like that if i felt the RS was so bad that i had no other option then to move out. I respect your desicion and i will not stop you from leaving me if thats what you feel you must do.

She was so baffled by these words... she could not understand that i was willing to let her go. She also blamed me for forcing her to leave me, it was i that made her have to leave me. And i was really willing to let her go too...

This led to her crying, raging, silent treat me and numberous attempts to bait me into fights and several other ways to her will trough. This lastes for 3 days until she was exhausted and asked me one more time if i still not was willing to give into her demands... if i really was willing to let her go. I gave the same response as i gave her at first.

She then caved in and told me that she would not leave me as she didnt want to live without me.

She has not made this threat towards again after this.

She later asked me if i really was willing to let her go or if i was just trying to see if she went trough with it.

I said yes, i would have let you go. You are a grown up and make your own desicions... i cannot control you... nor do i want too.


Dont know if this is of any help for you... but it is my experience with a similar situation

Andy

[tuum est61]

I said yes, i would have let you go. You are a grown up and make your own desicions... i cannot control you... nor do i want too.

Andy,

Great post.

I would not have ever thought I would, but I have adopted the same approach as you have described.  The words are hard to say and at first the thought that she might actually go, scared me.  But with time, the truth of what I quoted you on above especially rang true.  At that point, things became far more peaceful.  I was able to make choices to enable change.  I am currently separated, in a place where my daughters can feel comfortable seeing me - where my 15 year old may choose to live.  I separated our finances so that the spending on her non schooling, non working son could be reined in.  I have chosen to detach, validate, and set boundaries as you have and that has actually increased our intimacy.  She does not like what I say but seems to respect me more for it - even as she fights me about it. 

Carter, nothing changes without changes.  The more cliche version of the above approach is of course, "if you love someone, set them free, if they love you, they will come back to you". The thing with pwBPD, however, is that a return does not mean they have changed, so you do have to come to terms with that fact when you take them back.

[flatspin]

Hey carter.

It was when i started to set boundaries and not giving in to her demands that the sht hit the fan here.

As she did not get her will and i started to disengage her on several occasions she started to use the threat about breaking up with me and move back to her home town. So one day she told me "this is it, im leaving you now if i dont get xxxx from you and you do xxxxx for me.

I then said to her something like this:

I can see you are angry and sad... i understand how you feel. I would also feel like that if i felt the RS was so bad that i had no other option then to move out. I respect your desicion and i will not stop you from leaving me if thats what you feel you must do.

She was so baffled by these words... she could not understand that i was willing to let her go. She also blamed me for forcing her to leave me, it was i that made her have to leave me. And i was really willing to let her go too...

This led to her crying, raging, silent treat me and numberous attempts to bait me into fights and several other ways to her will trough. This lastes for 3 days until she was exhausted and asked me one more time if i still not was willing to give into her demands... if i really was willing to let her go. I gave the same response as i gave her at first.

She then caved in and told me that she would not leave me as she didnt want to live without me.

She has not made this threat towards again after this.

She later asked me if i really was willing to let her go or if i was just trying to see if she went trough with it.

I said yes, i would have let you go. You are a grown up and make your own desicions... i cannot control you... nor do i want too.


Dont know if this is of any help for you... but it is my experience with a similar situation

Andy

That's the big mistake I made.

My wife was saying that she didn't love me anymore and that she wanted to divorce and I answered her that I didn't want to divorce, that I loved her, that I'd fight in order to save my marriage and that I was very sad that she may feel such feelings against me and our marriage.

I thought that, because of her abandonment fears, I had to insist and keep saying that our marriage was something that means a lot to me and that I would never give up on her so she feels reassured.

Might be too late...

Your post is great, andy !

[Validation78]

 
Hi Carter!

All good advice and words of wisdom here! You are on the right path by setting boundaries, and taking care of yourself. Not subjecting yourself to abuse is a great way to say "you can't treat me this way". As UFN says here, we teach others how to treat us!

This site is filled with valuable lessons, tools and support!

Best Wishes
Val78

[tuum est61]

I thought that, because of her abandonment fears, I had to insist and keep saying that our marriage was something that means a lot to me and that I would never give up on her so she feels reassured.

Might be too late...

Your post is great, andy !

Might be too late for what?  I THINK you are saying here you shouldn't have tried to reassure her, but I am not sure.  If so, I think the point that Andy and I are trying to make is that our W's need to take responsibility for their feelings, its their decisions to make, and we don't want to control them (ironically that is what we are doing by not leaving them to their feelings.) 

Perhaps you can clarify?

In my view, we need to truly validate; show that we do care they are feeling badly; even say we are feeling badly about how they are feeling too.  But to spend time reassuring them that we don't want them to leave, telling them that we love them, simply is not helpful during the times they are saying they want to leave (even though I will still do it.)  Yes, it does work a lot of the time to make them feel better, but they really need to find it in themselves a BELIEF that we love them and don't want them to go.   

IMHO...

[flatspin]

I thought that, because of her abandonment fears, I had to insist and keep saying that our marriage was something that means a lot to me and that I would never give up on her so she feels reassured.

Might be too late...

Your post is great, andy !

Might be too late for what?  I THINK you are saying here you shouldn't have tried to reassure her, but I am not sure.  If so, I think the point that Andy and I are trying to make is that our W's need to take responsibility for their feelings, its their decisions to make, and we don't want to control them (ironically that is what we are doing by not leaving them to their feelings.)  

Perhaps you can clarify?

In my view, we need to truly validate; show that we do care they are feeling badly; even say we are feeling badly about how they are feeling too.  But to spend time reassuring them that we don't want them to leave, telling them that we love them, simply is not helpful during the times they are saying they want to leave (even though I will still do it.)  Yes, it does work a lot of the time to make them feel better, but they really need to find it in themselves a BELIEF that we love them and don't want them to go.  

IMHO...

Thank you, tuum est61, for your answer and questions.

Might be too late because I've received divorce papers and that I can't communicate with her anymore. Because the communication stopped when I had, at last, found the means to stop getting things worse and had tools on hand to improve our r/s. If the divorce is ever decided, then be it ! But I wish I had the opportunity to, at least, try said tools. I wish I could just send her a text message with what andy wrote above. Maybe not for her, but at least for me...

Recently, I've tried to put things in perspective between what results from her BPD pattern and what results from my mistakes. Most of the conclusions I drew were a great relief to me. I've read plenty of threads on L3 and I've come to understand many patterns and ways of hers as being typically BPDs and I've understood that her demands were just what many BPDs demand too. I don't feel guilt anymore over many issues. I've understood also that I can't redo the past but I want (need) to make up for what I couldn't do back then because of my ignorance.

I made mistakes, plenty of them. I just wish I could still talk to her once more and tell her what I should have told her several months ago.

Maybe that my feelings right now are just the extinction bursts of my inner sorrow and guilt but as long as the divorce isn't decided, I can't help but keep hoping...

As for the rest of what you said. You are right. It was important to reassure her and let her know that I love her. I know that she knows that I love her dearly but she feels misunderstood and I just wish I would have told her what she needed to hear even if it didn't make sense to me back then.

Quite hard to have a balanced stand/opinion about such issues and to heal our wounds while keeping having a logical way to address said issues.

[andywho]

I said yes, i would have let you go. You are a grown up and make your own desicions... i cannot control you... nor do i want too.

Andy,

Great post.

I would not have ever thought I would, but I have adopted the same approach as you have described.  The words are hard to say and at first the thought that she might actually go, scared me.  But with time, the truth of what I quoted you on above especially rang true.  At that point, things became far more peaceful.  I was able to make choices to enable change.  I am currently separated, in a place where my daughters can feel comfortable seeing me - where my 15 year old may choose to live.  I separated our finances so that the spending on her non schooling, non working son could be reined in.  I have chosen to detach, validate, and set boundaries as you have and that has actually increased our intimacy.  She does not like what I say but seems to respect me more for it - even as she fights me about it. 

Carter, nothing changes without changes.  The more cliche version of the above approach is of course, "if you love someone, set them free, if they love you, they will come back to you". The thing with pwBPD, however, is that a return does not mean they have changed, so you do have to come to terms with that fact when you take them back.

The words are hard to say and at first the thought that she might actually go, scared me.  But with time, the truth of what I quoted you on above especially rang true

I felt exactly like you when i said those words... the room shrinked and i had no idea what would happen next. But at the same time,and for the first time it was then i realised the reality of what i said... and how true it is. It was first after this i focused more and more on me... the only person in the world i can control... or change.

And as you also mention... i now more often stand my ground and care less if she dont like what i say or my opinion. But i leave it to her to choose how she will handle what i say. If she start any crazy talk i just disengage.

The result is that i now notice she stop and think more before talking to me when i say something that dont suit her. I would love to belive she learned that from me, as it is something i have started to do myself. I now dont blurt out my first reaction... I take two steps back, think trough and give my response. Try to use some Wise Mind.

I still often slipp... but hey... im only human. But im getting there slowly.

Andy

[yeeter]

Its certainly scary to face some of the implications of your own feelings, but consider what life is if you dont - you are no longer living your own life.

It helped me to work all the way through the scenarios - to have a more clear picture of what it looked like if we DID split.  Sometimes the unknown can exhagerrate fear.

My wife made a comment a couple times - during the divorce proceeding (later aborted at the last minute).  She said "I was fired as a wife"

She said this the same as being fired from a job.  For whatever reason that resonated with her, and I can see how it would.  (she has high uNPD traits and very very high functioning/capable person).

So part of resetting it all, for us, was some type of communication on what the needs/expectations were that 'I' need from the relationship - if she wants to keep the job.

Really its the only way a relationship can work - in a balanced way - is to have BOTH sides needs being met.  If yours are not being met then, its not really a healthy relationship to be in and needs change.