Suicide Threat?

[Think About It...]

"I think today is the day I make it all go away."
This is what my dd posted on Facebook this morning.
It has been her worse year yet It began with me being suspicious of her and her H doing drugs. My fears were true and in May, she came and stayed with me and she got clean. Her H joined her here and detoxed as well. They left suddenly to rush back to the city to salvage what was left of their possessions.It lasted about a week. They both started using again but after her H was beaten by the dealer, his family paid out good money and had him placed in a residential re-hab for two months.
My daughter found a placement in a program for duel diagnoses. That only lasted for two weeks and then she was asked to leave because she broke the  rules.(Apparently, you can't have sex with other patients in the broom closet.)
At that time, I offered for her to come back here. I had scoped out a program in my area, and had spoken with my doctor about a game plan. Dd refused and instead moved 200 miles away from her children and her city. It would help her to stay clean she said. Well, in a way it worked for her. She got a job in a pub kitchen, rented a room and was self supporting for the first time in her life.
That all lasted until her H got out of rehab and traveled to see her and then brought her back to the city. That was two weeks ago.
Last week she phoned me. It was the first time I had heard her voice in close to a month. I 'd seen her posts on FB of her reunion with her H. All lovey dovey, romping on the floor like a couple of teen-agers. She needed money for food. I suggested she go to the food bank and asked if she and her H had found work yet. He has some day work lined up, but she can't look for work because she has no transportation.
I contacted H's step mom and she tells me that his family, herself included, are done with him. I have a problem with that. When they are clean, trying to do the right things, it is the time to support them.At any rate, my H sent her some cash but not a lot.
So, now I read her post and can see she is giving up again. I fear she is using again and suddenly, I can't hold back the tears.

[jojospal]

"I think today is the day I make it all go away."
This is what my dd posted on Facebook this morning.
It has been her worse year yet It began with me being suspicious of her and her H doing drugs. My fears were true and in May, she came and stayed with me and she got clean. Her H joined her here and detoxed as well. They left suddenly to rush back to the city to salvage what was left of their possessions.It lasted about a week. They both started using again but after her H was beaten by the dealer, his family paid out good money and had him placed in a residential re-hab for two months.
My daughter found a placement in a program for duel diagnoses. That only lasted for two weeks and then she was asked to leave because she broke the  rules.(Apparently, you can't have sex with other patients in the broom closet.)
At that time, I offered for her to come back here. I had scoped out a program in my area, and had spoken with my doctor about a game plan. Dd refused and instead moved 200 miles away from her children and her city. It would help her to stay clean she said. Well, in a way it worked for her. She got a job in a pub kitchen, rented a room and was self supporting for the first time in her life.
That all lasted until her H got out of rehab and traveled to see her and then brought her back to the city. That was two weeks ago.
Last week she phoned me. It was the first time I had heard her voice in close to a month. I 'd seen her posts on FB of her reunion with her H. All lovey dovey, romping on the floor like a couple of teen-agers. She needed money for food. I suggested she go to the food bank and asked if she and her H had found work yet. He has some day work lined up, but she can't look for work because she has no transportation.
I contacted H's step mom and she tells me that his family, herself included, are done with him. I have a problem with that. When they are clean, trying to do the right things, it is the time to support them.At any rate, my H sent her some cash but not a lot.
So, now I read her post and can see she is giving up again. I fear she is using again and suddenly, I can't hold back the tears.

[twojaybirds]

I can feel your pain and fear.

Hold tight to your prayers and dreams for you and her.

[Forgetmenot]

So scary!

Did you respond to her post?  Did you call her?

I agree..you should try to help when they are on the right track, but it is often so hard to tell when they are being truthful or deceptive.

Hang in there and keep us posted.

[lbjnltx]

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your daughter.

Let us know how we can best help you.

 

lbjnltx

[jojospal]

I tried calling in the morning, and no answer. When my H got up, I had him text her to ask her how she was. Hours later, she called and talked to him. She wasn't able to sleep the night before and said she was thinking of checking herself in to hospital and that's what her FB post meant. ?
She and her H are accessing the food bank, but she is so dismayed at their not being able to find  jobs. We went on-line tonight and forwarded them a whole list of jobs available in their city.
She says they are both being "good." I sure hope that is true.
That one sentence on the computer had the power to affect my whole day. I didn't let it ruin my day completely though. I'm getting really good at self care. I spent a couple of hours with my horse who just came back from the trainer, and rode her for the first time.
It is so scary when dd writes such statements with reckless abandon. Last time it happened, I called the cops in her city. This time, I wanted to know without overreacting. I could react and get angry at her, for making me worry, but it would accomplish nothing. We will just have to go on from here.
You all help so much already just by being here.This morning I was alone and turned to these boards because I know you all relate and truly get it.  I was too scared to phone her and when I did, she didn't answer which escalated my fear. Just letting out my feelings was a great release.

[peaceplease]

jojospal,

       

I am sorry that you are worried about your dd.  I can understand about questioning their sobriety.  I don't think an addict will ever admit to using unless they are ready to get help.  What really complicates matters is there are two addicts in a relationship. 

Perhaps, there is more going on that H family is not telling you.  It sounds odd they would pay for him to go to rehab and then become NC.

I am sorry that you were scared by a FB post.  I would be concerned, too.  I know that I was concerned about my dd when she would not answer my calls, once.  She went a few days with no communication, and so unlike her.(she was mad at me)  I imagined all sorts of things.  What a relief to find her at her apartment, and just ignoring me because she was mad.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.
 
peaceplease

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[heronbird]

Hi,
While the story is so sad and its so hard to have that going on with your lovely child, these stories are all so heartbreaking. I am glad I read it, it just reminds me of my dd and our life.
No children yet from dd, lets hope she is infertile or something, (how mean is that)
Anyway Jojospal, I just wondered how you are?

How do you cope with it all, I read your first post and I think you are making brilliant decisions, like not giving food but still offering her to live with you for a while. You have a good point when you say about your dds inlaws disowning them. I think we do need to support them especially when they are making good choices in their lives.

I am just like you with the issue of asking dd if she is on drugs or drunk, Im not really sure, and she always says she is not on drugs or anything, but she wouldnt tell me anyway would she.

Sometimes I just feel so sad and I think I cant do this, my heart is broken, she is really so ill. I always knew she was seriously ill, but its so so bad.

I realise I need to talk about it, thats my therapy.. On the other hand, it reminds me of what a mess her life is, unbelievable.
Its helpful knowing I am not alone

[Forgetmenot]

Heronbird,

I don't think it is mean to secretly hope your child does not bear children.  This has been so heavy on my mind lately too.  Even for my normal children.  What if they inherited the BPD gene from their dad and I have to relive the whole thing again through my grandchildren.  Not only will I suffer, my child will suffer and so would my grandchild.  There isn't much info about genetics.  Seems silly because I breed dogs and you can track almost any health issue in dogs.  Makes no sense that we aren't that far advanced with people.

Jojospal,

Are you guys doing ok?

[j's friend]

No children yet from dd, lets hope she is infertile or something, (how mean is that)

Heronbird dont feel bad. I used to say the same thing about my dd for years and people would think I was really being mean, but they dont know how powerful the gene for BPD is. dd17 definatley inherited BPD from my exh and I believe his uncle is BPD too, and Iam really scared that the baby that she is having will have it too. I dont think I could go through raising another child knowing that it had BPD. One is dwefiantley enough in this lifetime!

I know that my dd will not be able to bring up a child as she hasnt got the maturity or the patience and she has already started to miss hospital appoitnments so I know that I will have to be very hands on but and dd isnt the sort of person who is willing to learn from me and then take over bringing up her own child.

She has already been using emotional blackmail against her dad with the threat of not seeing his first grandchild.

[Forgetmenot]

I tried to trace the inheritance factor in my d17 but her BPD dads (my ex H) family is so fragmented and most were estranged I couldn't tell who had it or not. 

I know for a fact it is my d17 but not my other 2 children. 

Their dad has uBPD,  as well as one of his sisters.  His other sister is healthy.  The sister with BPD has no children.  The healthy sister has one child who appears to be normal.

And for sure the grandfather has it.  He was estranged from almost ALL of his family.

Just from my casual observance on these boards it seems to be a more direct inheritance pattern ...so it would seem my non BPD children should have healthy children.  My BPD child could have healthy or BPD children.

Anyone have any input?  Scientific or anecdotal?

[suchsadness]

This is so interesting to hear how other people can track the BPD gene in their families.  My ex and his mother definitely had/have  the criteria for BPD, and I have accepted/recognized in the last two years that my dd35 (who just today sent me an email saying she has BPD) has it as well.  Unfortunately, her 9 year old son has also been demonstrating signs of BPD for the last 4 years which was probably triggered by the birth of his brother.  This means that it can be tracked through 4 generations in my ex's family.  There is no history of BPD on my side...making it even harder to know how to deal with it since I had no experience dealing with personality disorders and behaviors in my past.  That means there was a LOT of trial and (according to my dd) mostly errors in handling situations.  My signature says it all...such sadness!

[suchsadness]

Oh - and Forgetmenot, this would also indicate that it is a direct inheritance factor.  And, maybe it is too early to tell (5 years old) but it does NOT appear that my dd35's second child has signs of BPD.  So if not, then there was a 50/50 inherited gene.

[heronbird]

Hi.

Yes, I know, I dont feel bad really, I just ment it would sound bad, but I know all of you really understand, and thats why I feel safe to say it on here, and you did understand.

One of the things my dd was worried about is that she would pass the BPD on, recently she was saying she wanted a baby and she had her implant taken out. One min she was saying she is going try for a baby and she cant wait 9 months, the next she was saying she will wait as her bf was unstable. One day, she realised the poor baby might inherit something. This did make her sad and she said "I think I will never be able to have a baby for my whole life" Thats quite sad isnt it. When most people realise this, they try for IVF or something, but dd cant even do that.

I looked into it a bit and BPD is not so much inherited apparently, not like schizophrenia. Also, if our dds do have a baby with BPD, we will be experts wont we, but also, yes, I think they wont be able to keep the baby will they? I dont know but guess who would have to have it! ?

I chose to have 4 children when I got married and responsibility was mine. I dont want any more, then what happens if I take one, then she had another and another, you cant have them all.

Forgetmenot, if you had a puppy, say one off that had an abnormal thing say, and its just a one off, I guess it could come from a long long time ago, do you think.

There is no one in our whole family with BPD, no one at all. So has she just got the bad bits from a few different strange people in the family, how strange. My older d must of got all the best bits and maybe only left the bad bits for dd with BPD.

Well, a doc did tell me she could of got BPD from when she was born blue with cord badly round neck and they rushed her away for a while.

[jojospal]

Heronbird, it is not mean to say that you hope your dd can't have children. Is it mean of me to be thankful that my daughter had a hysterectomy last year? She had her tubes tied after her third child, well, that is what she said and we all know what they tell us and what is true is usually two different things. I am thankful that she won't be having more. That is not to say I don't cherish and love the three she has now. Is it awful of me to wish for a prenatal DNA test for this illness?  
As for the discussion about the hereditary factor-I am all in. I see it in my ex and unknowingly, his BPD is the reason I left him in 1985. His mom had it for sure. He had 6 siblings, one which died in infancy. Of his 4 brothers, I would say besides him, two had BPD, for sure. One who was not married a woman with severe mental health issues. The last brother, I never met as he lived with his family across country. My ex-h's sister showed many of the symptoms as well. The sad part was that even the ones who didn't have it, were affected by it. I was always struck at how that whole family behaved like a cult. Although they were always loving/hating each other, they were fiercely loyal to the "Family"
One of their family stories was about the time the father got smacked in the head with a huge metal hook at the shipping docks in Belfast. He spent a month in hospital with a scull fracture and more weeks at home recuperating. When he finally was able to return to work, his co=workers took him to the pub after work for a pint of beer. When he got home, late I guess, his wife met him at the front door with a cast iron frying pan and yes, whacked him over the head with it, sending him back to hospital. Oh, how they all roared with laughter when that tale was told around the dinner table.
- Of the Grandchildren of my unBPD ex-MIL, I must be fair in saying I don't know them well, but through social media, I have spied a little. There are 9 altogether. 4 for sure have it. Including my dd. 4 of them I don't see or know at all. So, I would say a 50-50 chance is about right.

I think that the scientist that isolates the BPD gene should receive the Nobel Peace prize for 25 years in a row! He/She would be responsible for so much PEACE.

[suchsadness]

Well, a doc did tell me she could of got BPD from when she was born blue with cord badly round neck and they rushed her away for a while.

Heronbird, I also had a doc tell me that my dd's birth (traumatic birth with forceps and injury to eye muscles/prefrontal cortex) is probably a factor in her having BPD.  But the fact that her father and grandmother had the same personality traits seems way too much of a coincidence to me to not be a genetic thing.  This same doc said that BPD is like swiss cheese with all these holes in it and each hole represents something that affected their personality.  That means that say they start out with one hole being genetics, another hole brain injury at birth, another hole for divorce of parents, another hole for death of grandmother, another hole for losing a best friend, etc.  So as they experience life and get more holes this is how their personality becomes abnormal.  This was the doc's explanation...and it seems to make sense to me!  Sometimes a visual reference helps to make things easier to understand 

[vivekananda]

Hi all,

That visual image is good suchsadness, but I think it may be more complex yet again.

I can trace BPD personality traits back 3 generations to my G grandfather born 1838. One of his daughter's was seriously ill with it. She eventually died in a mental hospital. Interestingly she was universally loved in the family, the sympathy and support for her was massive. My mum, the next generation down was BPD, my sister has it worse than mum did. My daughter is not doing well. It is spread through the wider family and surfaces in mild or distressful behaviours, but there does seem to be one side of the family that has 'escaped' unharmed. Of course, it would be unlikely that I would know of any 'serious' illness in mine or later generations. We hide mental illness. So perhaps it is possible to 'escape' the gene. But I am not convinced.

My dh has some bad stuff in his family also and I am seeing it in the children of two of my sisters in law. Some of his cousins are not good either.

I believe that like attracts like, and so pwBPD and pwBPD traits are drawn to each other. Maybe the genetic imperative of that darned gene making sure it reproduces itself is at work...

The thing is, that even though we don't have BPD, I feel sure that we have personality traits  s that are derived from BPD. I know that I do. I think that we can overcome our less positive personality traits, and I know that even though it is hard, a pwBPD can overcome their genetic inheritance and their BPD.   

I also believe that we have an explosion of bad behaviour generally as part of our individualistic, materialistic culture (etc). The way we parent, the way we respond, the values that we live by are different now to those of that mentally ill great aunt of mine. In her day, society was restrictive - her behaviours were neurotic. Today's society is permissive, a person with BPD today responds characteristically with anger, not neuroses. (this was pointed out to me by someone on the site who had read about it).

And did my learning all of this help me with my own personal situation? yep, it did. I know I could have done things better with my own dd - if I had known. But, the oddds were stacked against me. It was not my fault. I do not have to carry the burden of guilt.

It is not just genetics or a physical predisposition, it is also the cultural environment in which we live - how our family, our community, our world lives - and this is where we can all work to make it better. But before we can do that, we have to be working to make ourselves better.

Herewith endeth vivek's rave 

 

[Googie]

My teenagers post lyrics of songs as their status on fb.  Some of them have had me running to their room to check on them because I am so out of the loop with what they listen to these days.  Either way would most definitely check in to make sure all is well.  Hopefully they are just depressing lyrics from a depressing song by a depressing band. 

[Forgetmenot]

It seems like if you have the genetic tendency, similar to the alcoholism gene, that you don't always develop it.

If under a certain set of circumstances you suffer real or perceived trauma then you could develop this.

Having a parent with BPD is traumatic.

So it seems like a lot of variables are involved.

I've noticed that the longer between escalations in my d17...and the more time she spends being "normal" the better she is at keeping her dysregulation from getting the best of her.

And the negative events are cumalative too.

[j's friend]

I chose to have 4 children when I got married and responsibility was mine. I dont want any more, then what happens if I take one, then she had another and another, you cant have them all.

HB I just love how you say things

At the back of my mind I do believe that my dd will go on to have more children after she has had this one, and like you say then what?  How many will be I be expected to take or will end up in the system?

So far this pregnancy has been a breeze for her.  She says that she doesnt feel any different ...no morning sickness, backache or anything, just a little tiredness but she has more energy than I have and it certainly hasnt slowed her down from roaming the streets. I had the amount of children that I could handle and give them a good quality of life, but dd just seems unconcerned and diconnected from the whole situation. Now the excitment  has died down amongst her friends she doesnt even go to her routine checkups anymore. I have told her I will go with her and she just says "ill let you know" and then she doesnt go to them. The only thing she has asked me about what happens after the birth is if I think she will get a flabby belly! She even joined a gym last month...at 4 months pregnant. Who does that?

Its just like everything else dd has ever done...loved it to begin with and then hated it or couldnt be bothered. What chance has this child got. She has even said that if she doesnt get the support after she has it and cant cope she will give it up for adoption...but I  still dont think that would stop her from having more

[heronbird]

Wow, well what would you do Jsfriend if your daughter tried to give  it up for adoption, I dont think she actually will. Yes, doesnt it sum them up  when you say love it to begin with then get fed up then hate it or couldnt be bothered. Yep guinea pigs, kittens and boyfriends all get treated like this by my daughter. Now her latest thing is she has a flat, thats what we call it, you call it comdo dont you? She loves it and its helping her to be happy, shes done a weeks shopping and says she is going to cook and she loves it. We will see

I have to be optimistic and say that when your daughter has her baby she will bond with it, care for it and it may even help her to have a purpose, but she will need support, has it been done, has anyone had the experience with a pwBPD keeping their children and being successful.
Would you let it be adopted? or would you have it? at the end of the day its your granchild, its family.

Fancy joining a gym at 4 months pregnant, so strange but maybe good for her, there is now rational with BPD though.

I hope things go well for all of you, I really do. Keep us posted