how do you validate an unwise decision or threat?

[Think About It...]

My uBPD/npd H has serious conflict around money. The amount of money he has is never enough-even if it's sufficient to pay bills and live comfortably.

He's constantly stressed by paying bills and seems to feel or assume that if life were FAIR he would not be required to be in any way financially responsible. It's an ongoing issue for him.
He goes into an emotional tailspin, on a fairly regular(monthly) basis and usually rages at me-over his distress about paying bills. these bills are groceries, gas and food-mind you. NOT luxuries. we have not been to a sporting event or a concert or even a movie all summer. No vacations all year.

When I get a job-his first purchase or expenditure will be a country club membership for himself!
YIKES. really?

So when he becomes angry/morose about paying bills and just wants to *check out* quit his job, run away. He threatens to check out, quit, move, sell the house and take the $$ and GO...
what do I SAY?

I try to say: I understand how futile it feels to you to pay the same bills every month...I know how bleak the future appears to you, that must feel awful. It must be hard for you to feel you never get ahead...

But it goes against every grain of my being to validate his childish/selfish anger about being an adult with real responsibilities.  ?
I feel like he just resents taking care of ANYONE other than himself-and please note he's NOT paying MY bills. it IRKS him to feed and house anyone else! I feel guilty eating unless I buy the groceries-so I buy the food now. He buys food only when he has his kids over.
that's hurtful for me to hear and realize. that my husband resents being a responsible married partner.

he then makes me spend what little $$$ I have to treat him to a meal, rather than him paying for me! (he forgot his wallet, his checkbook is at home... always an excuse)
it's just weird. it definitely makes him feel better, for the moment. He LOVES for me to pay for him. (I am on unemployment)
it's like I become the husband and he's my wife. He likes that! he relishes that.
he does not SEE the dissonance.
But if I point that out-I am a target waiting for a rage.
anyone?
GL

[gina louise]

My uBPD/npd H has serious conflict around money. The amount of money he has is never enough-even if it's sufficient to pay bills and live comfortably.

He's constantly stressed by paying bills and seems to feel or assume that if life were FAIR he would not be required to be in any way financially responsible. It's an ongoing issue for him.
He goes into an emotional tailspin, on a fairly regular(monthly) basis and usually rages at me-over his distress about paying bills. these bills are groceries, gas and food-mind you. NOT luxuries. we have not been to a sporting event or a concert or even a movie all summer. No vacations all year.

When I get a job-his first purchase or expenditure will be a country club membership for himself!
YIKES. really?

So when he becomes angry/morose about paying bills and just wants to *check out* quit his job, run away. He threatens to check out, quit, move, sell the house and take the $$ and GO...
what do I SAY?

I try to say: I understand how futile it feels to you to pay the same bills every month...I know how bleak the future appears to you, that must feel awful. It must be hard for you to feel you never get ahead...

But it goes against every grain of my being to validate his childish/selfish anger about being an adult with real responsibilities.  ?
I feel like he just resents taking care of ANYONE other than himself-and please note he's NOT paying MY bills. it IRKS him to feed and house anyone else! I feel guilty eating unless I buy the groceries-so I buy the food now. He buys food only when he has his kids over.
that's hurtful for me to hear and realize. that my husband resents being a responsible married partner.

he then makes me spend what little $$$ I have to treat him to a meal, rather than him paying for me! (he forgot his wallet, his checkbook is at home... always an excuse)
it's just weird. it definitely makes him feel better, for the moment. He LOVES for me to pay for him. (I am on unemployment)
it's like I become the husband and he's my wife. He likes that! he relishes that.
he does not SEE the dissonance.
But if I point that out-I am a target waiting for a rage.
anyone?
GL

[RUkidding]

I wish I had an answer for u or myself for that matter. Validation I believe can be extremely difficult especially if like my uBPDexgf was u couldn't just say I see how you could feel that way ect   That was not good enough for her   Her thing was not money but interactions with others or the way she handled something. I disagreed often but if I didn't totally support her she would say I should have her back , support her ect   There was no explaining it to her a in any way. Like I thought u want my honest opinion and by being honest I am trying to help u ect. She on the other hand would always give her opinion to me even if I didn't ask for it and she did not "always have my back". Another double standards kinda thing. I am sorry for u but believe this is one of those damned if u do damned if u don't areas with them. There are
Many and it's why these r/s suck !

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GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[tired-of-it-all]

There is a saying for times like these that I find very useful:  "Say what you mean and mean what you say but don't say it mean."  In other words don't acquiesce to this immature behavior.  Yet don't be loud or ugly and don't get drawn into a fight.  State the facts and then walk away.  AND DON'T EXPECT HIM TO AGREE. 

This way you don't loose a little more of yourself; he has to hear the truth; he doesn't get away with his unacceptable behavior; and, you don't play along with his manipulative game. 

I have done this many times in similar circumstances and it works for me.

[artman.1]

gina louise,
     My Therapist recently asked me this question:
     What are you getting out of this relationship? 
     I tried to list some positive things and came up with a few, but came up with a very long list of negative things.  Really, I am having some difficulty understanding why I am having such trouble pulling away from my UBPDW.  I am reading a book called "Facing Codependency, by Pia Melody" with my CODA group.  This book is sanctioned by CODA.  I have picked up a book that is called "Facing Love Addiction, by Pia Melody" and it is a book that goes with codependency as well.  This one may give me some hints as to why I am having such trouble.  I probably am a Love Addict with my UBPDW.

 I do wish things to get better for You, Art   

[tuum est61]

I try to say: I understand how futile it feels to you to pay the same bills every month...I know how bleak the future appears to you, that must feel awful. It must be hard for you to feel you never get ahead...

But it goes against every grain of my being to validate his childish/selfish anger about being an adult with real responsibilities. 

GL,

You said all that you can say.  The only thing you can do is say them again, or perhaps alter them a bit but say the same thing.  At some point I get to the kind of final words "That sucks.  That really sucks to feel that way." 

Beyond that, you will probably just have to set a boundary.  Without any fanfare, leave and go do something else.  If necessary, let him know that you will return later to talk more about the situation after he's calmed down. 

These are HIS feelings - you can acknowledge them and even though he might expect you to fix them you can't. Make sure you are detaching from from his fears - they aren't about you. 

 

[Surnia]

Hi Gina

I feel with you, the frustration about someone who cannot or is not wiling to take adult responsabilies concerning monney.

I had very often the same "resistance" toward validation in similar situations. I asked myself why. Why is ist so difficult for me? I found out: I have a certain fear about obligation to do something.
Example:
He: argle %

[yeeter]

I have a slightly different take on this.

WHO WANTS TO BE AN ADULT?  WHO WANTS ALL THAT RESPONSIBILITY?


Of COURSE he doesnt want all the pressure, work, responsibility of being an adult.  I dont either!  So its pretty easy to see the emotional part here.

Separation of this emotional element from the practical, real world element is on you Gina (your work is to not combine the two with ... ya but...).  Im guessing you dont want all this work and responsibility either - so should be easy to validate the feelings!  

And often if we say we dont want the responsibility of being an adult, others make judgement about this:  Your being immature, your living in fantasy land, wont you ever grow up!, etc.  So the implied judgments just make the emotions all that much stronger.

[gina louise]

thanks all-
here's the scary part for me. if he quits his job as a business professional he will expect ME to take up the slack.

he did this to me last year-when I was working a new job, and he claimed he *ran out of $$$* I had no way to verify that-but he pressured me so much (it's ALL on YOU NOW!) and the stress on me was so intense that I ended up losing a probationary job- for silly stress filled mistakes.

Now I am getting back into a field I know well- I will be earning more than before, and I fear his reaction will be similar-to throw away HIS part and leave it to me.

It feels and sounds the same...  ?
Same gloom and doom, same threats from him. Like it's ALL too much for him, so he expects me to take over.

GL

[yeeter]

here's the scary part for me. if he quits his job as a business professional he will expect ME to take up the slack.

So its really about YOUR fears?

[gina louise]

yeeter,
yes and no. it's happened before and was a disaster.

Yes, as he's making the same noises/threats/complaints and I have seen him behave in patterns and cycles.
So I am worried! I am in no way prepared to take over the bills/mortgage.

No, in that I want to be supportive of his worries-without loading him with mine, until the real disaster hits.
In other words-to not make it any worse. but validate how much of a burden it is.
It's shared NOW by the way-but he still feels it's unequal. of course it is. He makes 4 times what I will be earning.

GL

[yeeter]

So I am worried! I am in no way prepared to take over the bills/mortgage.

No, in that I want to be supportive of his worries-without loading him with mine, until the real disaster hits.
In other words-to not make it any worse. but validate how much of a burden it is.
It's shared NOW by the way-but he still feels it's unequal. of course it is. He makes 4 times what I will be earning.

GL,

You have very good reasons to be worried!     And it sounds like you are relying on someone that is not reliable (and is making comments that would make life difficult for you if he followed through with those comments).  No doubt it causes you stress!  (it would anyone)

At the same time, he is no doubt stressed as well, about all of the adult responsibilities.  Doesnt matter whether they are more, or less than anyone elses, doesnt matter how he 'should' respond to them - they are his and cause him stress.

My suggestion is to try to sort through some ways that YOUR stress can be reduced, independent of what he does or does not do.  Even if he agrees to something, doesnt mean he can be counted on for it.  And no for sure it wont be 'fair'.  But the question is - are there things you can do that would reduce some of your worry?  (make your own budget of your own income - decide how much you will allocate for different aspects, and then when the time comes he wants you to break that budget you will have the bigger picture in mind to be able to just say 'no, I cant afford it'.  He may rage - but he will do that anyway it sounds.

Finances (and especially lack of finances) are a big stressor for most people.  Doesnt really matter how much he has, my guess it would never be enough and the bills would just go up and the stress with it.  So there is no way you will be able to solve his financial anxiety.  Validate to the degree you can, and carve out little pieces that are in your control to reduce your own anxiety.  Meaning, dont rely on him to reduce your stress.  In the limit this might mean thinking through a fallback plan should the two of you ever split - because that can be a big fear.  Actually having thought it through can sometimes reduce the fear, which will help you deal with the relationship better.

Same for the plan should his income go away.  It might look pretty bleak, but maybe come up with a plan and share directly with him what YOU would do if he lost his income.  Jobs just dont turn on and off like magic these days, and the expectation that the burden to pay the bills would simply transfer to you just might not be realistic.

 

[OnceConfused]

GL

So I am worried! I am in no way prepared to take over the bills/mortgage.

Well, nothing will change if neither you nor he changes.