RTC therapy call today with BPD dd15

[plshlp5]

I started my intro a couple days ago... .  i feel a bit odd just jumping right in, but here it goes... .  

My BPD DD15 has been in a RTC in Utah since April 2012, with no major progress. Her anger issues have been under control COMPARED to what it used to be, and she does use some coping skills with that, but that is mainly the extent of her progress. Let me start off by saying that my DD and I have a very good relationship, which is kinda strange considering all of her issues. She loves and trusts me more than anything. But the last couple of weeks, have been very difficult for her. She came home for Christmas, it was her first home visit since April, she was home for 5 days. It was just okay. I loved having her home, and so did her sisters, but she was so manipulative, she lied, and she bullied her sisters and tried to bully me. I knew she needed to go back. But when she went back, they dropped her status and she became angry and depressed and she "gave up." She said she was never going to be able to get out of the RTC, that nothing she ever did was good enough. The reason they dropped her status, was because she had an "F" in her Algebra class and because as soon as she came back she and a friend were caught bullying a girl... .  again. A few days later, she was removed from her cottage, was restrained for physically attacking staff members, and sent to stay on the secured cottage for 6 days. She threatened suicide and was placed on suicide watch, although 10 min after threatening suicide, with me on the phone (last week's call), her T told me she was laughing again... .  more manipulation.

So in today's call, I find out, she has been on the secured cottage since Sunday, she has been dropped another status, which means, I dont get a social call with her (which is our second call of the week, just her and us alone for 25-30 min), and we couldnt go visit her if we wanted... .  which I had been thinking about doing very soon. Why is she in trouble? Because she was planning a riot with two other girls. What does a Riot look like in a RTC? One girl distracting the majority of the staff by getting in loads of trouble, while the other girls start beating on a few other girls. Nice huh? I couldnt believe my daughter was involved in that. Up till this point, my daughter may get violent on herself, and angry and hostile with us, but never with other girls or people. I've always done an excellent job raising my children with morals, values, respect for others, and manners and that is one thing other parents applaud me on is how well behaved she was with sleep overs... .  but now? I guess the older she gets, the worse she is getting.

Funny thing is, she denied responsibility in this riot. The other two girls claimed it, only recieved minimal days in the secured area... .  she received more for not claiming any part in it. The thing about my dd is that she is always a part of all the drama in this RTC. And she never tells the truth, she could make you believe the sky is purple if she wanted to... .  and most would probably believe it if they didnt know better.

She did admit and realize though that these two girls are doing to her, exactly what she and another girl would do to other girls... .  bully and set up others to get in trouble... .  she didnt use the word, but I SOO wanted to... .  KARMA... .  I stayed quiet and didnt say it though.    I figured her tears and hurt and regret were enough... i didnt need to rub it in.  She said she knew what the other girls she hurt now felt, and she didnt know why these new girls she was hanging out with are now doing this to her, but they keep setting her up to get in trouble. Her old friend who she used to bully girls with are now no longer allowed to talk to each other... .  they got into so much trouble, they are now on a "no talk" rule.

Her T asked her something about fixing problems and looking at others and I cant remember quite what it was, but it was directed towards other people... .  I didnt like where that was going. So I told my dd, that she didnt need to look at others. She was looking in the wrong direction. She didnt have to look very far, she needed to look at herself, she was the problem, she was at the RTC b/c she had things to work on, to work on herself and get better. That no matter what other ppl do, she can never change others. No one can change other people - EVER... .  there is no point in trying... .  so she needs to focus on herself... .  and make herself happy and better. I told her that she will encounter ppl like she encounters at her school, the ones who set her up, even in her adult life, at work, everywhere, so she needs to learn how to stay clear of them, learn how to deal with them now, so she can deal with them in the real world. I think I made her upset b/c she didnt respond to me, which is odd. She always talks to me, like I said in the beginning, she loves me more than anything. She misses me... .  loves our Tuesday calls. But she didnt say anything to me the whole call, except hello at the beginning.

Her T closed the call about 5 min later, saying, do you have anything you want to say to your mom? ... .  Silence... .  :'(   Her T says, okay, well then I guess you will talk to her next week b/c you dont get your social call this week. I hope you behave yourself this week. I said, I love you, she said, I love you too... .  she cried the entire phone call... .  Her T hung up the phone and that was it.  It was a very sad phone call... .  So different than just 3 weeks or 4 weeks ago. She was so happy.

I hate these times. I really do. It truly breaks my heart. I hate when she hurts, it makes me hurt so badly for her., especially with her being so far. But i know even if she was here, it wouldnt be good for her, it would probably be worse. I just hate that she has to feel this way. Since our lunch time phone call, i've been holding back my tears and my pain, trying to work... .  trying to ignore it... .  waiting to talk to my husband, who works a day and night job... .  but i cant talk to him... .  he's busy... .  so i wait... .  call my mom, who is my best friend, and is moving tomorrow to clear across the united states... .  and she has already gone to bed... .  cant talk to her either... .  i dont trouble anyone else about these personal issues... .  its too much for anyone else to know about. They couldnt possibly understand or even care about. So I pick up my other two dd and take care of them for the night, finally tucking them in and jump up on the computer and not knowing where to start. I just want to pour my heart out... .  all the pain i'm feeling for her right now... .  I'm so thankful that I found this group now. It's times like these that will really help... .  during the good and the bad times.

And every night, i log on to my computer after work, after my other dd's are tucked in safely to bed, and i browse this website, reading posts, reading blogs, researching, trying to find more stories the same as mine, or finding more helpful info, something that can be helpful to me, to my family, to my BPD DD15... .  I know this site will be helpful, and hope to find some peace and some guidance and some more knowledge.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Hello plshlp5,

I get the username... .  please help me x 5!  Love it!

I have traveled this road  you find yourself on... .  my dd16 went into rtc in Utah for 10 months... .  it is rough being seperated from our beloved girls so much.

When my d13/14 was in rtc I kept an online journal of every interaction I had with her, her therapists, her psychiatrist... .  the site saw fit to make it into a case study.  If you click on the blue letters at the bottom of my posts... "keep believing in miracles" you will be taken to the thread.

It appears from reading all of your posts that BPD is a new diagnoses for your d.  Is the rtc she is in geared for helping her... .  since that is not the diagnoses she went in with?  What is their group therapy model?  Does her individual T have a specialty?

I look forward to hearing back from you.

We are here for you... .  you don't have to travel this road alone anymore. 


lbj

[Eclaire5]

I actually got teary reading your post, and I don’t easily tear up. I think it just brought me back to the time when my daughter was 16 and we were going through so much, as well as the profound empathy that I felt reading your story. You beautifully worded the desperation, helplessness and hopelessness that we sometimes feel when dealing with the situations brought by their illness. You must really miss talking to her, but try to remember that she needs to experience the consequences for her acts, since that is the only way she will learn. Unfortunately you also have to pay those consequences by default now that you are deprived from talking to her. This is a difficult road, but I think you are going to find some consolation by joining this group. I know I have.

[vivekananda]

plshlp5 you are so sad. I am sorry for you. I am glad you are here. I am Cheers,

Vivek    

[plshlp5]

Lbj - Actually, you have it half right, its please help 5 - my family including my BPD15 is a family of 5... .  we are in this together and we need help together. I pray and beg for help as I have for the past 12 years times 100, definitely not times 5  .  We need a lot more help than that. But great guess. 

Also, the first post I read on this site was yours and your daughter's journey at the RTC. Where is she now in her life? How is she? I didnt find the ending after graduation, I was eager to find how the RTC had helped her. I have my doubts of the RTC with my daughter. Most times I feel she's there for safety reasons only, I feel she should be home with me, soon I may be in the position to be at home full time to take care of her, to take her to therapy 3-4 times per week as needed, but to give her the love she needs, that they cant give her. I dont see the RTC helping her any time soon, as she doesnt realize she has a problem... .  and I'm missing out on my daughter's life, and before i know it, she'll be 18 and wanting to go off on her own and i wont have her at all.

They started her in the Dialectical Behavioral Therapy 2 weeks ago, once they offically, but unoffically diagnosed her. The RTC wont diagnose her officially since she is a minor. I'm not sure what her T specializes in, I never thought to ask... .    except that she was qualified to help my daughter with her "bipolar" and "severe depression" problems and that was enough for me as this was what I had been asking for all this time. I'm really irritated at the fact that I've had absolutely no interaction with her psychiatrist at all. that is a whole other story, as is many other problems i've had with them, which I've worked out by not being quiet, (they know me quite well for standing up for my daughter and her rights)!

Eclaire5 - thank you for your kind words and empathy. Words truly cannot explain how long I have waited to find my daughter some help and to find her true diagnoses. We found it 2 weeks ago. I am still learning about BPD, I had never heard of it before 2 weeks ago. I am trying to learn as much as I can. I am not one to sit back and have it spoon fed to me. Her T said she would send me info the next morning after telling me. I did not wait for her. I learned more about it within 3 hours than she had sent me in 24 hours. On my next paycheck I plan to order a few books I have found on this website and cannot wait for them to arrive so I can learn more. Although I feel so relieved to learn of her dx FINALLY, it made me feel so helpless to know i cannot help her as I have for the past 15 years of her life. When I sent her to the RTC, i felt horrible to give her to strangers to care for her. I had known her so well, taken her to therapy, given her her meds, known every detail of her illnesses, what her triggers were, what soothed her, etc. And now, reading the details, the ins/outs of BPD, I feel like i know her better than i ever have and I look forward to learning more so I can passively help her from a different point of view.  I know i'm no longer in the driver's seat, which is scary, especially since she is not aware of her illness, she doesnt believe she is sick, but I can help her in other ways and I dont plan to take a back seat, as I never have. I love her, she is my world, and although it hurts, it kills me, and I know this probably will kill me one day. I read somewhere last night someone had a heart attack from a broken heart - I probably will one day too - it wouldnt surprise me, but I cant have her do this alone, its just not fair.

I am learning with her from her T that she needs to learn and experience from her actions - this i struggle with because it hurts me for her to hurt, so i am backing off when this happens and allowing the hurt to occur, which is what happened yesterday. I drove in to work this morning and cried more listening to Avril Lavigne and Christina Aguilera songs such as "The Voice Within" is what I used to sing to her when she first went in and was having a hard time.

I can deal with not speaking to her on the social call, its hearing her deteriorate, hearing her act out, listening to her cry, just not get it, doing poorly, knowing she CAN be happy and she's not. Hearing her be down and think that she's alone and no one loves her or understands her. It makes me wonder if she lies in bed at night crying, if she has that empty pit in her stomach that hurts as she cries, you know the one, the one that hurts so deeply, the one we've all felt as we hurt and cry for our children. Does she feel this pain while she's feeling alone late at night? This is what I think of and it hurts me. It makes me want to be with her and wrap my arms around her and tell her i'm always with her, reassure her.

Vivek  - I'm so glad I'm here and that i found this site, and found all of you! Thank you!    

[lbjnltx]

Hello plshlp5,

Thanks for asking about my d.  She turned 16 in October, she had been back to Falcon Ridge Ranch for 6 weeks right after she turned 15.  It has been really good for a long time now.  Her 2 year graduation anniversary is March 19.  She is a sophomore in public high school and has passed all of her classes with mostly "B's"... a few "C's" and a few "A's".  She has several long term close girlfriends that she spends time with.  She also has a nice boyfriend and is very close to him and  his family.  They have been "steady" for 4.5 months now with no problems.  We are doing parent taught drivers ed and she is on track to get her license at the end of March.  We visited her pdoc on Monday and he is decreasing her abilify with hopes of decreasing her prozac next visit in May.

We are thankful to God for all these blessings and His guidance through this journey past and present.  We do believe in miracles.



lbj

[vivekananda]

plshlp5 - you sound so strong, so determined. I feel confident that with a mum like you, your dd will come through. But adolescence is such a hard time.

Can I suggest that Valerie Porr's book 'Overcoming BPD' be the first one you read. Then I believe the Lundberg book, 'I don't have to do make everything all better' is an excellent follow up. There are other that are helpful, but those two I believe are for we parents more than most and are complementary.

You continue to do what you think is right girl. Those two books will help you with some tools that are so helpful for us, especially values based boundary setting and validation. Personally, I found my best learning place was here, as was my best support.

Cheers,

Vivek     

[plshlp5]

Wow Vivek , great thank you so much. I will actually purchase those first.   

My Saga continues from that therapy call... .  

Her T said she would email me to let me know how she was doing after our call on Tues and she hadnt, so i emailed her yesterday morning... .  no answer.  So this evening I sent her an email kinda putting her in her place letting her know i wasnt happy about the lack of communication on her end over the last few weeks, especially when she says she will, and ESPECIALLY when my DD15 seems to be having an extremely troublesome time right now.

10 min later an email comes my way... .  and that my friends, is when my heart broke in two. I had to run to the bathroom at work to cry in the stall, text my dh... .  I truly feel like stepping back from it all. VIVEK, in your last post to me, you say how strong i am, and you know, at times I am... .  most times I am... .  i have NO other choice, but at times like these, she seems to just crush me and i feel like i just cant push forward anymore. For the first time in her life, i feel like i just dont want to do it anymore.  :'(

Her T apologized for not responding up till this point, told me that my daughter had many ups and downs since Tuesday. Her T told my dd that she believed my dd had caused me some hurt during our phone call and my dd didnt believe that to be true, she didnt do anything or say anything to me to cause any pain. She tried to explain it to my dd, but she just didnt get it. Her T also said they had found that she was directly responsible for planning the Riot last weekend.   (The Riot that thankfully never occurred). She went on to say that they had found out more details since we last spoke. The girls had planned to stand on the tables and desk not only to dance, but to put books into pillow cases and beat the staff in their heads with them. She said she didnt think my dd would reall do it when it came right down to it, but the planning occurred and the other girl involved would definitely do it.   I felt sick.  She wanted me to tell my dd how i felt about everything on our next therapy call next tuesday. thought it would do my dd some good for me to be honest with her.

I wrote her back (still havent heard back from her). I told her T that from what I have read, it doesnt seem like it would be very beneficial to my dd for me to pour my feelings out to her for several reasons (1) it would just make her feel good about herself to know she has hurt me. Right? Isnt that what they say about BPD's? I would be confirming what she "already knows about herself" that she is "bad". and (2) if she doesnt understand when she is doing anything wrong, or doesnt take responsibility for anything what is the point?

I also wrote telling her that I have loved this child unconditionally for her entire life, and given her everything she could possibly need (medically & psychologically & emotionally) and its never enough, its never helped, she is just getting worse, she is progressing to doing stupid crap like wanting to beat adult staff who are trying to help her, helpless, innocent people... .  maybe I am doing something wrong. If this isnt working, maybe I should take a step back. Maybe I've given too much. Maybe I've loved too much, held her hand too long. WHAT IF? I WASNT THERE ON TUESDAY FOR THAT NEXT THERAPY CALL? THEN WHAT? How would she respond? Would she care? Would it bother her? Maybe for a minute or an hour? and then she'd go on... .  Does she even think of us when she does these kinds of things? She is soo desperate for friends she will DO ANYTHING for them. And she told me 3-4 weeks ago, she loves the negative adrenaline. She doesnt want to change, she wants to hang out with the kids who get in trouble... .  not the goody goodies. Why am I putting myself through this? For what? A heart attack at age 35? I'm so lost.  I'm so tired of being strong. Will she ever see the light at the end of the tunnel? Her biological father never did. He died 2 years ago at 40 years old of an Overdose and he was in/out of prison his entire life. I never knew his DX, until i saw my daughter go through all of these changes and saw him inside her... and now that she has her BPD diagnosis... .  i know he must have had this too. They are identical. Is that her future?

[vivekananda]

ahhh plshlp, not it is not her future, do not despair. There is hope.

I wish I could hold you and tell it will all be ok - that's not possible and not a good idea either 'cos it won't be all ok, but it can get better. So, in the absence of being there with you, know that you are in my thoughts and prayers and that I am sending you some strength to get you through this.

I will try to be brief - not easy for me... .  

Your dd does not want to accept responsibility for her actions. She wants to blame others for her situation and she wants to avoid the pain she feels by hitting out at others. She is angry, frustrated and hurt. These are our 'base' emotions that are in our amygdala - the primeval part of the brain. Studies of people with BPD show that the neural pathways between the amydala and the pre frontal cortex (where we think, where our capacity for logic lies) are very inadequate.

As an adolescent she is at the stage where her brain in undergoing big changes. Neural pathways that are strong are reinforced, neural pathways that are weak, are culled. So, this is one reason why in adolescence our children with BPD act so badly.

It is possible to build those neural pathways. That's what DBT works on as well as the other successful therapies for BPD. That's why validation works.

You can give your dd feedback though. But how you do it isn't always so easy. Try this way:

I feel ... .  (very specific emotion), when you ... .  (concrete, specific actions, words); I want ... .  (specific actions, concrete request) because ... .  (emotions, values, needs dependent on our request).

eg: I felt deeply hurt when I learnt you planned that 'riot'. I want you to be co-operative with the staff there because I am worried you won't get better.

or: I feel hurt when you speak rudely to me on the phone. I want to feel reassured that you will treat me with respect.

This is a way to express yourself that is in accord with her therapeutic goals. It helps build her neural pathways by giving her the language for the emotions and it brings her into the present moment. That's good.

I hope you rest well and are revived when you wake,

Vivek    

[plshlp5]

   Thank you Vivek , this helps more than you know. I dont think I could ever truly give up on her, it just hurts. I will go to bed now and hope in the morning I CAN have a fresh perspective on things. Thank you again. and I know I've said this before, BUT I'M SO GLAD I FOUND THIS SITE!

[lbjnltx]

Hello plshlp5,

Wow, I can imagine the shock, disappointment and fear that you are feeling as a result of learning that your d was the one that made this plan.  I am so sorry that you are going through this.  Looking at this from different perspectives, it is good that the truth came out so that your d's treatment team knows what your d struggles with and hopefully have a plan of action to address this and help her learn.

I would be remiss if I did not ask you once more what the group therapy model is at this RTC.  The peer group is highly influential ... .  more than their T's or pdocs or family or teachers combined. Without the positive peer culture at Falcon Ridge I don't believe for a second that my d would have made much progress at all.

Let's talk about it.


lbj

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[plshlp5]

LBJ, your post has me thinking - A LOT - even your RTC log got me thinking - is my daughter in the right place? I didnt know there was such thing as a positive peer culture at an RTC? I thought they were all negative since they were all there for these same type of influences? Even your word for word conversations with your d's T, got me thinking... .  "why aren't our conversations like those?"     I've thought of pulling her so many times because of the negativity of the peers. I believe we do need to talk much more about this. I feel I'm more naive than I should be to this RTC, I'm learning as I go, and unfortunately its 9 months on the 30th of Jan. Please help me with anything I should know or ask. I dont remember Falcon Ridge being one of my options with our school district. 

Vivek , THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I woke up feeling positive and strong again.  I get those moments of weakness from time to time, but nothing like last night - it was really REALLY hard on me last night, and I'm so glad I had you guys.

[vivekananda]

Hi plshlp5  

Good to know you woke feeling better.   Remember that for the next time (sorry, there will be a next time, but we get better and better at it). The intense anxiety will always pass. If we stay on track and keep focussed on our goals, we will always be able cope because if we fall, the rest of us are here to help us up. It's not weakness that causes us to trip or fall though, it's just inevitable. Think of us here as a safety net underneath your highrope. There can be a soft landing and then you can get up and try again.

Now positive peer culture is lbj's expert area, but since it's me here and not her, in the meantime I will post you this:

"Part of the positive peer culture process involves two kinds of groups, “formal” and “spontaneous” groups. Formal groups are a regularly scheduled session with a systematic four stage agenda designed to promote youth ownership of the helping process. The “spontaneous” group is designed to react to the “here and now” problems. Any staff member or resident may initiate an “informal” session at any reasonable time. Whether one is seeking support or identifying a problem with another, the process is designed for immediate help. A person can get a pretty good idea of how well a group is functioning simply by the number of times a “spontaneous” group is called during the day. When the residents are having an especially hard time functioning as a group, they seem to be having “spontaneous groups” almost all the time. While we were there, the functionality of the groups varied. The need to request a “spontaneous group” was evident from time to time in one or two of the dorms, while other dorms were functioning so well they looked and acted like a typical group of teenagers." taken from: www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2001/11/visit01.html

This site refers to a specific therapeutic process written about by Harry H. Vorrath and Larry K. Brendtro in their book 'Positive Peer Culture'.

Don't panic that you didn't know this stuff. Be calm and set yourself goals to work through this. Be logical and methodical. You do not need to make rushed or hasty decisions. Learn, inquire, process, think and reset goals as appropriate.

Cheers,

stay in touch and keep us up to date, ok?

Vivek   

ps I'm glad you found us too  

[lbjnltx]

LBJ, your post has me thinking - A LOT - even your RTC log got me thinking - is my daughter in the right place? I didnt know there was such thing as a positive peer culture at an RTC?

Actually, PPC is a therapeutic process and not a true type of therapy... .  it is a support group model.

I thought they were all negative since they were all there for these same type of influences?

Whether a child is in an RTC that uses PPC or not... .  the difference isn't the child it is the "reframing" (positive reinforcement and accountability tools) that make it a positive peer culture.

Even your word for word conversations with your d's T, got me thinking... .  "why aren't our conversations like those?"  

Because we are all unique... .  and yes, it may be that this rtc isn't a good fit for your d.  Is it a behavior mod program that your d is in?

I've thought of pulling her so many times because of the negativity of the peers. I believe we do need to talk much more about this. I feel I'm more naive than I should be to this RTC, I'm learning as I go, and unfortunately its 9 months on the 30th of Jan.

The negativity of the peers is not the real issue... .  the issue is how the RTC holds them accountable... .  in PPC you are either helping or hurting and the only authentic help comes from someone who is willing to help themselves.  Each member of the group holds themselves and each other accountable... .  calling them out on their lies, deceptions, behaviors, manipulations, laziness, unwillingness to look at self, how you talk to or about your parents, if you minimize, dramatize, glorify past behaviors, attitude... .  everything... .  I mean everything. Their peer group also has a say in whether or not they deserve to have an increase in privileges. Why is this so powerful?  Because their peer group has more influence for teens than anyone else in their lives at this age and lets say... .  there are 8 girls to a group... .  these girls are together in some form or mix 24/7 except for time in individual t every single day they are there... .  that's potentially 16 eyes watching your d at any given time... .  plus... .  they tell eachother  things that they might not tell the t's or other staff.

Please help me with anything I should know or ask. I dont remember Falcon Ridge being one of my options with our school district.  

It may not have been... .  her diagnoses has changed... .  her treatment plan and her place of treatment may need to change as well.  :)id you have an educational consultant representing your daughter at the IEP meetings?  The voice and pull of the EC can bring in other RTC options for consideration in placement... .  other than what the school presents as options.  

Tell me, what are her current diagnoses?  What RTC is she in if you don't mind telling us... .  if you want to keep that private I understand that as well.

Some questions to ask:  what is the group t model? will I have weekly t sessions w/my d w/the group t leader? what is the treatment plan for my d now? has the plan been modified in light of her new dx of BPD? what kind of therapy model is the individual t using w/my d? does her individual t specialize in the treatment of any specific disorders... .  if so what? what are the treatment goals? if my d needs any special treatment outside of the rtc will I be informed so that it can be written into her iep? will the rtc provide transportation for these appointments? what coping skills is she learning? What kind of experiential t is she engaging in regularly? can I get a 6 week progress report that details all areas of rtc... .  such as Experiential, group, individual, residence, school, medication management. What books has my d been reading to educate herself on personal reflection and accountablility? Do I need to read those books too?  Are DBT skills taught/reinforced by staff in all aspects of the program?

Will my d's social calls, family weekends be affected by her performance or meeting of goals?

Will I be told when my d is ready to move to the transitions group? Do you have a transitions group?

plshlp5... .  If you are not very involved with the therapeutic process of your d you need to be to have the best chance of real and lasting positive change for your family.

Vivek , THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I woke up feeling positive and strong again.   I get those moments of weakness from time to time, but nothing like last night - it was really REALLY hard on me last night, and I'm so glad I had you guys.

lbj

ps... .  thanks Vivek  for posting that!

[plshlp5]

LBJ, Wow, I'm blown away. So much I dont know about my daughter or her treatment. For the past couple weeks and month or so I have become quite frustrated at the lack of communication from the school in regards to the postings of her grades, comments from the teachers, the timing of the replies to my emails from her T. I receive a monthly progress report or as its called REPORT OF MONTHLY TREATMENT PLAN REVIEW. Today I received one. Today is 1/25/13. This one is dated 12/19/12. Is this normal? Its more than a month old? I looked back on all of them and they all state that my dd has been in Dialectical Behavioral Group Therapy since the beginning - 9 months now. Wow she should be getting the hang of it right? No, wrong. I asked her T about it last week. Her answer - "oh, I had intentions of putting her in it, b/c I believed from the beginning that your daughter might be BPD, but the group was full, but I'm putting her in it starting today."

She is at Provo Canyon School in Springville. On the report, section "Treatment Interventions Utlized" everything is check marked for my daughter that they offer, except visits, because we are too far, and right now she doesnt get a visit anyhow. Those items that she is currently receiving are: Individ therapy, chemical dependancy group (she said she did marijuana before she went to the RTC), DBT group, Family therapy, Treatment team group, Recreation Therapy.

Before going in, she has seen many different therapists, psychiatrists and they all said the same thing: major depression anxiety, and bipolar. this dx came at 9 years old when she saw her first psychiastrist and psychologist. Then more symptoms began coming out, such as OCD traits, but nothing full blown to where i'd say she needed a dx, but she does things like pack and repack her back pack again and again and again, or paint and repaint and repaint and repaint her nails, literally in one sitting approx 15 times, and she'll do this every day if i would let her, to where it would interfere with going to school or going out with us somewhere, things like that, but not washing of hands or the typical stuff. She has auditory and visual hallucinations that started when she was 8 - she started hearing a man's voice telling her to do bad stuff, but didnt really start telling me about them until she was 9. at 9 she had her first visual hallucinations that lasted a full weekend and she wouldnt move from her bed - she thought THINGS were crawling all over her wall and ceiling trying to kill her. we had never experienced anything like that before and didnt know what to do. I was too scared to call 911, I didnt think that was what we should have done, this is before she was dx with bipolar. we took her to a psychiatrist that monday and she was dx. She only has hallucinations occasionally now, i think it only happens when she gets really severe (i'm not really sure), but i think they're controlled with her seroquel, that is when they have stopped. She cuts, used to stick thumb tacks into her arms, would cut her arms and wrists with anything that was sharp enough to cut herself, but not sharp enough to kill herself, just sharp enough to cut and bleed, that started in 7th grade, she threatened my middle daughter with a butcher knife when my middle daughter was only 4, so my dd was 9, said she was going to kill her (my dh and i were in the shower), my dd still denies it and my middle dd still remembers it, my dd15 choked my middle daughter when my dd15 was 12 and middle daughter was 7, left red haNPDrints around her neck, (again dh and i in the shower) - we didnt shower together anymore after that - she choked her until she almost couldnt breathe and then threw her to the floor. she would beat her head against the wall (herself - no more against my middle dd), scream obscenities at us and family members, lie about us to child protective services, I would always say she had no sense of reality... .  I know these are all just symptoms, but no one would give us dx's. No one really believed us. They always believed her. They wanted my dh and I to go to parenting classes and take therapy.

Which brings me to another one of her symptoms which they havent put a dx to, or maybe there isnt a dx, maybe its part of BPD (?)... .  she sexted 3 different boys - made up crazy stories of how she was a professional stripper to one of them, was at the hospital having an abortion to another one of them, and to the third, was having crazy dirty sex over the phone, they were saying stuff that a 14 (at the time) shouldnt be saying... .  it was raunchy. I believed she was a virgin... .  i still do, although she told her T that she isnt. She also texted a half naked pic of herself to one of the boys.

At this RTC, they said she doesnt have bipolar but simply mood disorder nos. But her therapist told me they give that dx to most of their kids b/c they are minors. I havent spoken to the psychiatrist even though i have requested to many times. She replied, "I'm too busy".

I think the way the girls are held accountable is this: If they are good they are rewarded with status changes and extra curricular activities, etc. If they are not so good, they have consequences and can lose their status, can be restrained, can lose their bed, as they say, which means they go to "reflections". They go to a secured cottage where the (bad) (dislike using that word) girls go for a certain period of time, to "reflect" on their actions. They have assignments given by their staff or Therapist to help them Reflect on what they've done. It can be for 1 day or more days depending on their action or how they continue to act while they are there. If they resist they are put into, what I call, "the hole", b/c its a white room with a door that they dont close unless the girl is REALLY out of control (my dd confirmed that).  and they only stay there for an hour or so. This is their punishment. Its like a time out, is the way i see it. It doesnt seem to be constructive. It seems like it would just get old after a while, and expected. The girls purposely get thrown into this secured area just to get away from the day to day routine, its like a vacation for some of them. So it must not be too bad.   

I will need to ask her T all the questions you asked in your post so I can find out more. I will be sure to do that on Tuesday. I dont think her T is specialized in BPD or DBT and neither is most of the staff there. She told me that she knows about BPD but not specializing in it. She did say she was going to go around to the staff and let them know how they should respond to my DD15's reactions based on her new dx.

Her meds are as follows: Seroquel 500 mg at night, prozac 30 mg morning, tegretol ER 100mg at night, Lamictal 125 twice daily, Prilosec 20 mg morning (stomach probs), Citrucel morning(stomach), colace morning(stomach), Eucerin (psoriasis).

We did not have an EC at the RTC, but we had her Therapist with us who was very very good working with the school district. Our next IEP with the school district is scheduled for April, it will be a one year review. I am going to do tons of research over the weekend and be very prepared for my Tuesday therapy call.

Which reminds me, yes, I believe the RTC is a behavior mod program. When we admitted her, i remember arguing with them that my dd didnt have a behavioral problem. Her problems were mental/emotional problems/disabilities and therefore her behavioral problems were secondary. I argued with many of the staff there that day and they assured me they understood my point and that it wasnt an issue... .  including the psychiatrist.

I thought I was involved in the therapeutic process of my d. I thought if I was any more involved I would be on staff at the RTC... .  I thought I was so involved, i'm pretty sure everyone there knows me by first name... .  but I guess there is a major breakdown somewhere.  I am more determined than before to fix this!

THANK YOU BOTH!    BTW... .  sorry it was so long.   

[lbjnltx]

LBJ, Wow, I'm blown away. So much I dont know about my daughter or her treatment. For the past couple weeks and month or so I have become quite frustrated at the lack of communication from the school in regards to the postings of her grades, comments from the teachers, the timing of the replies to my emails from her T. I receive a monthly progress report or as its called REPORT OF MONTHLY TREATMENT PLAN REVIEW. Today I received one. Today is 1/25/13. This one is dated 12/19/12. Is this normal? Its more than a month old? I looked back on all of them and they all state that my dd has been in Dialectical Behavioral Group Therapy since the beginning - 9 months now. Wow she should be getting the hang of it right? No, wrong. I asked her T about it last week. Her answer - "oh, I had intentions of putting her in it, b/c I believed from the beginning that your daughter might be BPD, but the group was full, but I'm putting her in it starting today."

Oh my gosh! They tell you... .  in writing that she has been in DBT since the beginning and she hasn't even started?... wow... .  This is a misrepresentation of care. The reports are not timely... .  2 weeks would be the max I think. How often do they have treatment team meetings where the individual t's turn in reports on your d?  All of this needs to be compiled, copied, and mailed out... .  so it does take time... .  

She is at Provo Canyon School in Springville. On the report, section "Treatment Interventions Utlized" everything is check marked for my daughter that they offer, except visits, because we are too far, and right now she doesnt get a visit anyhow. Those items that she is currently receiving are: Individ therapy, chemical dependancy group (she said she did marijuana before she went to the RTC), DBT group, Family therapy, Treatment team group, Recreation Therapy.

  She has been there 9 months without a parent visit?  This is so not good for her or you or your relationship.

Before going in, she has seen many different therapists, psychiatrists and they all said the same thing: major depression anxiety, and bipolar. this dx came at 9 years old when she saw her first psychiastrist and psychologist. Then more symptoms began coming out, such as OCD traits, but nothing full blown to where i'd say she needed a dx, but she does things like pack and repack her back pack again and again and again, or paint and repaint and repaint and repaint her nails, literally in one sitting approx 15 times, and she'll do this every day if i would let her, to where it would interfere with going to school or going out with us somewhere, things like that, but not washing of hands or the typical stuff. She has auditory and visual hallucinations that started when she was 8 - she started hearing a man's voice telling her to do bad stuff, but didnt really start telling me about them until she was 9. at 9 she had her first visual hallucinations that lasted a full weekend and she wouldnt move from her bed - she thought THINGS were crawling all over her wall and ceiling trying to kill her. we had never experienced anything like that before and didnt know what to do. I was too scared to call 911, I didnt think that was what we should have done, this is before she was dx with bipolar. we took her to a psychiatrist that monday and she was dx. She only has hallucinations occasionally now, i think it only happens when she gets really severe (i'm not really sure), but i think they're controlled with her seroquel, that is when they have stopped. She cuts, used to stick thumb tacks into her arms, would cut her arms and wrists with anything that was sharp enough to cut herself, but not sharp enough to kill herself, just sharp enough to cut and bleed, that started in 7th grade, she threatened my middle daughter with a butcher knife when my middle daughter was only 4, so my dd was 9, said she was going to kill her (my dh and i were in the shower), my dd still denies it and my middle dd still remembers it, my dd15 choked my middle daughter when my dd15 was 12 and middle daughter was 7, left red haNPDrints around her neck, (again dh and i in the shower) - we didnt shower together anymore after that - she choked her until she almost couldnt breathe and then threw her to the floor. she would beat her head against the wall (herself - no more against my middle dd), scream obscenities at us and family members, lie about us to child protective services, I would always say she had no sense of reality... .  I know these are all just symptoms, but no one would give us dx's. No one really believed us. They always believed her. They wanted my dh and I to go to parenting classes and take therapy.

These are all acting out behaviors (violence towards others)... .  scarry stuff. 

Which brings me to another one of her symptoms which they havent put a dx to, or maybe there isnt a dx, maybe its part of BPD (?)... .  she sexted 3 different boys - made up crazy stories of how she was a professional stripper to one of them, was at the hospital having an abortion to another one of them, and to the third, was having crazy dirty sex over the phone, they were saying stuff that a 14 (at the time) shouldnt be saying... .  it was raunchy. I believed she was a virgin... .  i still do, although she told her T that she isnt. She also texted a half naked pic of herself to one of the boys.

Negative attention seeking behaviors... .  my d did some of this stuff too.

At this RTC, they said she doesnt have bipolar but simply mood disorder nos. But her therapist told me they give that dx to most of their kids b/c they are minors. I havent spoken to the psychiatrist even though i have requested to many times. She replied, "I'm too busy".

 

I think the way the girls are held accountable is this: If they are good they are rewarded with status changes and extra curricular activities, etc. If they are not so good, they have consequences and can lose their status, can be restrained, can lose their bed, as they say, which means they go to "reflections". They go to a secured cottage where the (bad) (dislike using that word) girls go for a certain period of time, to "reflect" on their actions. They have assignments given by their staff or Therapist to help them Reflect on what they've done. It can be for 1 day or more days depending on their action or how they continue to act while they are there. If they resist they are put into, what I call, "the hole", b/c its a white room with a door that they dont close unless the girl is REALLY out of control (my dd confirmed that).  and they only stay there for an hour or so. This is their punishment. Its like a time out, is the way i see it. It doesnt seem to be constructive.

  Do they not get an er meeting with their individual T?

Or a peer group meeting?

It seems like it would just get old after a while, and expected. The girls purposely get thrown into this secured area just to get away from the day to day routine, its like a vacation for some of them. So it must not be too bad.   

I will need to ask her T all the questions you asked in your post so I can find out more. I will be sure to do that on Tuesday. I dont think her T is specialized in BPD or DBT and neither is most of the staff there. She told me that she knows about BPD but not specializing in it. She did say she was going to go around to the staff and let them know how they should respond to my DD15's reactions based on her new dx.

What does this T believe the proper response to your d needs to be?  I have looked at their webpage... .  I can't find anywhere that lists the therapy models that they use.

This is typical of behavior mod programs.

Her meds are as follows: Seroquel 500 mg at night, prozac 30 mg morning, tegretol ER 100mg at night, Lamictal 125 twice daily, Prilosec 20 mg morning (stomach probs), Citrucel morning(stomach), colace morning(stomach), Eucerin (psoriasis).

This is a lot of medication combos... .  at fairly high dosages. Have they added or increased her meds since she arrived at the RTC?

We did not have an EC at the RTC, but we had her Therapist with us who was very very good working with the school district.

I don't mean to be rude here... .  I must ask... .  why did her T endorse placement in this program?

Our next IEP with the school district is scheduled for April, it will be a one year review. I am going to do tons of research over the weekend and be very prepared for my Tuesday therapy call.

I think a conference with the Clinical Director may be where you would want to start. I would not advise questioning of the program in your d's presence. An emergency IEP meeting can be called at any time.

Which reminds me, yes, I believe the RTC is a behavior mod program. When we admitted her, i remember arguing with them that my dd didnt have a behavioral problem. Her problems were mental/emotional problems/disabilities and therefore her behavioral problems were secondary. I argued with many of the staff there that day and they assured me they understood my point and that it wasnt an issue... .  including the psychiatrist.

 

I thought I was involved in the therapeutic process of my d. I thought if I was any more involved I would be on staff at the RTC... .  I thought I was so involved, i'm pretty sure everyone there knows me by first name... .  but I guess there is a major breakdown somewhere.  I am more determined than before to fix this!

There is no one who will look after your d's interest better than you.

THANK YOU BOTH!    BTW... .  sorry it was so long.   

lbj

[vivekananda]

I'm still here plshlp5. Let us know how you go with all this. Be calm, be logical and don't sweat it if you feel it is your 'fault' in in some way. It simple isn't. You have good information to go forward with and work with. Good information and good counsel brings good results. Each day is a new opportunity for hope.

Cheers,

Vivek  

[lbjnltx]

Hello plshlp5,.


Last night on the drive home, my d16 and I had a conversation about her rtc experience.  I explained to her that I have a mom on the board w/her d in rtc that is wanting information.  When I told her that there has been no visit for 8 months she said "that's terrible and just crazy".

This is how the conversation went:

Me: If you had to list the top 3 aspects of your RTC experience that helped you the most what would they be?

d16: PPC, Equine, Individual Therapy.

Me: Explain to me why PPC was so effective for you.

d16: Because I came to realize that everyone cared about me.

Me: Is it true that your peer group has more influence over you than any other person or group combined?

d16:  Yeah!

Me: What about staff?

d16: Well, regular staff and even the therapists used PPC all the time.  Even when I could tell they were getting mad they still used the care and concern of PPC to help.  They helped us by holding us accountable for our actions or attitudes and we understood that they cared because we understood what care and concern looked like.

Me: So what was so meaningful about Equine?

d16: Just having something to look forward to everyday, going to see Little Doc and Mijo

Me:  What did you learn from being in Equine?

d16:  I learned patience and boundaries and how they are important in my relationships with others and for myself.

I can't recall whether she answered anything about individual t as we had arrived home and she went on up to shower before bed.

This is just a recollection for my d and her experience.  How does it apply to your d and what she needs?

[plshlp5]

Vivek , hello  ... .  I know you are still here for me, and I thank you for the reminder! If you all see me disappear for a few days dont worry, i'm taking it all in... .  i'm doing just as you say, taking it in, being patient, trying not to stress over it and see just what it is that I need to do before Tuesday. I'm seriously thinking of calling an emergency IEP, but I dont have all my ducks in a row just yet.

LBJ - I didnt mean to give you the impression that i havent seen her in 9 months or even 8 months. I'm not sure why her reports state visitations are not occurring. Why the box isnt checked. We are in California. She is in Utah. Its far, but not THAT far. We've had 3 visits there, 2 overnight visits with the entire family, including the dog and the 3rd was an "Emergency trip" my dh and I took, which lasted 4 hours because she wasnt doing well. We drove 10 hours to go see her and talk some sense into her, give her a jolt and some extra love, and then drove back. This was in September. That was the last time we saw her until her home visit at xmas. Gosh, 9 months without my dd, I agree that it wouldnt be productive at all.

I need to keep this one short, but wanted to clear that up. I have a lot to post to answer a LOT of your questions. I will log back up soon to answer.   

[vivekananda]

I am looking forward to hearing your plans... .  I am pleased that you are able to work through it all. It must be so overwhelming at times.

Cheers,

Vivek    

[plshlp5]

First step in the right direction - yesterday, I ordered overcoming BPD by Valerie Porr - the book you suggested Vivek . I am anxiously awaiting its arrival. I had gone to the book store over the weekend in hopes of finding it in stock to get a jump start, but no such luck. Should arrive within a few days. 

I've had a few days to do some reflecting on myself, and on my daughter's issues, as well as take in everything that everyone has said on my post the last few days. I've been able to attempt to reorganize my thoughts, regain composure and prepare for my conversation with my dd15's T, which occurred today.

I have a lot going on at home, as well as with my dd15, and this creates a great deal of chaos in my mind, so i apologize in advance if my thoughts are sometimes scattered. My dh works two jobs, leaves home at 9am and doesnt return till early mid morning, so not only do I work my regular 10 hour per day/6 day a week - very busy job, but its like I'm a single mom to my other two children as well, because of his hours. We only see each other on sundays. And then on top of all that, I have my dd15 who is constantly in my thoughts and i'm constantly trying to research and find out more about her to help her.

Here's my latest struggle... .  She was dx with bipolar at age 9 so I read anything and everything i could get my hands/eyes on from that point. I needed to learn about her and what she was experiencing so I could help her. Now come to find out, she may have touches of bipolar, but she really is BPD and I never even heard of it prior to just a couple weeks ago. I feel like I'm at square one. Like everything i've ever done for her has just hurt her. I've been thinking back over many times of how she "overreacted" to many instances or situations and we would say certain things to her or I would yell at her for doing or saying something or reacting a certain way. Now I know, none of this was her fault. I knew she was overly sensitive, couldnt take a joke as easily as others, got "rubbed the wrong way" easy. At one point, she was dx with high functioning aspergers due to the way she interacts with others. But i've learned this is also part of BPD. I read so many of your posts and i have so many flashbacks of everything she has done and felt and experienced... .  things I had forgotten, not sure how or why I had forgotten - its almost as if because this was an everyday occurrance for us, it just became normal life. But so much time had passed with the wrong dx, so much wasted time, so much hurt that i'm sure was caused unnecessarily to her when her dad and I only meant to help; when we thought we were doing the right thing. It really makes me sick to my stomach to think of all the wasted time. Which leads me into today's therapy call.

I had organized my thoughts and wrote down everything i had wanted to speak to her T about. There were many unanswered questions I had, some brought up by LBJ - thank you!    Some brought up by MOTR - thank you   . Courage and a strong head from Vivek  - thank you !   

Because my dd was sent to an RTC through the school district, the school district wants to make sure she is performing well in school, as I do, as she is now in 9th grade (should be in 10th). I've seen her fly through school by teachers just to pass and she isnt really learning, so her education is very very important to me. I recently noticed, about 3 mos ago, that she wasnt in a special education program at this rtc, as her IEP states she needs to be. I contacted the special ed director and he denied her. He stated that she is a bright girl and feels she could perform so much better if she would just do the work. Now this is the same issues she has always had - she cannot focus on school because she has always had other psychological/emotional issues, and this is why the iep was put into place stating she would be in special education. Even without being referenced as emotionally disturbed, as the school states, she still tested extremely low in math and would qualify for special ed. Still he refused after my arguing my points. He offered tutoring to my daughter. I was done arguing this point, So I contacted my school liasion. The school liasion spoke with him and found that the tutoring was set up and my daughter was refusing help. The school liasion backed off. My daughter had told me and her T that she was attending alll her tutoring and was understanding algebra so much better. (Her other class grades fluctuate immensely from an A to D). I felt I couldnt contact the school district again until I had more back up, as my daughter had lied to us all and made me look foolish.

My issue with her schooling is this - Why can they not place her into the special ed program if that is what her IEP stipulates? The only way for me to see her grades is when the teachers post them to the online board, but they are extremely slow in doing so - so by the time a bad grade is posted, it is too late for me to speak with her or anyone else, she is failing the class. Same with teacher comments - they are slow to post comments about her. This is my way of knowing how she is doing in class in regards to behaviour, assignments, etc and if they dont post, how will I know. I've sent emails asking for answers and they are overlooked. If she is struggling, why can they not make her do the tutoring if that is what I want and the school district wants. Why does my dd have the option to not take the tutoring? To me, this doesnt seem correct... .  I saw a comment from one teacher saying my dd was saying inappropriate comments in class, i sent an email 3 weeks ago inquiring what this meant. Today I received an answer from her T - in the middle of class, my dd will raise her hand and when called on, will say, "what if i stand on my desk and begin sqwaking like a rooster?"    THESE ISSUES ARE ON MY LIST, ALONG WITH ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT LBJ ASKED OF ME... .  

When my dd's T called today, she dove straight in and told me that my dd had admitted to the staff about the riot last week and her involvement in the planning, and that is how they knew (I had asked her how they knew). but when confronted by her T about it, she denied it completely. She went on to tell me that my dd had a good week, didnt get into any trouble. I told her T that I had many issues I wanted to discuss with her, but needed a separate appointment time to talk to her, as I didnt want to take away from my dd's therapy call. I told her that I have so much to talk to her about that it could take 30-40 min.  She agreed and we will set a time tomorrow. My dd then got on the phone and was happier than she had been for the past few weeks which was good to hear.

Her T dove straight in to my dd - it was like she could read my mind and knew what issues I was going to bring up. She confronted my dd - and asked her how she felt her 9 months had gone? Tomorrow will be 9 months at this rtc. She asked her how she felt her time has been spent... .  she asked if she had to leave tomorrow how would she do outside. My dd gave herself a rating of a B- and said she would have no problem leaving and be able to survive just fine at home. Her T after a bit of conversation and going back n forth, stated to her, "so, you are not the one with the problems then right, as you are doing everything at 80%, so it must be all of us here and your mom that doesnt see it?" my dd shut down and got defensive like she does, started crying, pouting, and became angry. Her T asked her why she only acts this way on the phone when I'm around, she doesnt react this way during individual therapy. She didnt respond, she ignored her. So her T asked me. I told her that I believed it was for attention seeking, or to get a rise out of me, to hurt me, to anger me, or to get a rise out of the staff, to create drama, to make me angry with her T or with the nurses or with whomever. My dd became enraged and her T questioned her on why her face was so red, her fists clenched. My dd said it was b/c none of it was true. She got angry and threw the phone down. Her T said she was ending the call, and my dd started yelling, came back to the phone and her T stated that she felt my dd maybe feels like she needs me to rescue her, although from what she can see, I dont rescue her unnecessarily. My dd stated that wasnt the case either and didnt know why she does this. (There is obviously some untouched emotions here and I'm very curious to find out what that was all about). Her T ended her portion and allowed us 10 minutes alone.  She told me if my dd didnt answer me on the phone, then to simply end the call.

So i began to talk to my dd about her 9 mos in that rtc and her thoughts. she felt she could come home tomorrow and survive just fine. I told her that just last week she was restrained in a secured setting of 60 girls from getting caught up in their drama, and from physically assaulting a staff member, how did she think she would be able to come home and go to a regular high school with 1500 kids or more and 100 staff members or more, boys and girls, more influences, more peer pressure, more classes, etc etc etc... .  she didnt have an answer. I think she understood. I told her that she had wasted 9 months, her T had told me she completely disregards her DBT groups, I told her that although she doesnt understand why she is in them, she must take them seriously and learn from them. I explained to her again that her being in an rtc is an absolute gift, that not everyone has this option, that many people who have issues dont ever get this option to take time out of their lives to go to school where they live, to have dr's and nurses where they live and to be taught life skills where they live - in order to better themselves, to enrich their lives, to teach her what she needs to live a normal life - and this my friends is what caught me off guard - she said, for the first time - with deep passion "But mom, I am not normal, I will never be normal, I dont have a normal life, I will never have a normal life because I dont think like others, i am not like others." and I stopped her... .  and I told her, no "her name" you are right - you are special, more special than others and this makes your dad and I love you more, with all your anger, your sadness, your happiness, your confusion, with everything you bring, we support you and love you even more because of who you are and this is why you have this opportunity to be here at this school, so please "her name" take advantage of what they have to offer you and learn - learn your life skills, learn your algebra, dont get caught up in the girl's drama - who cares what they think of you - you will not be friends with them when you leave here - this is for you, all for you and your future... think of you. we love you and dont you ever forget it, we are ALWAYS here with you supporting you, and dont think of the time, just dont waste it!

She seemed to understand and take it all in. But, we've had those heart to hearts before and by the next day, she forgets. It's like that movie with Drew Barrymore, 50 first dates, "Hi, I'm Tom"... .  ... .  she always forgets... .    :'(

But at least I know in the moment, it helped her, whether she forgets it all by tomorrow or not. But her T did agree to send me the monthly treatment review plans via email, and so I already have January's, which was finished just a few days ago. It stated they have started to treat her for BPD and to discuss with me how to respond to her. As I begin reading more and more about BPD I will know more about how to talk to her and react to her, as of now, I dont know what is wrong or right, i have to learn it - same as her. I really believe in her T - she has always been a very good T for my dd - its other parts of the rtc that I have issues with, that I'm hoping I can get cleared up with our conference call in a few days.

It may be 9 mos wasted, but I dont believe its the fault of the rtc. My daughter is an extremely complex case, more complex than I could possibly put into words. Every Dr. she has ever seen has told me this, and it has taken them 8 mos to tell me BPD and they spend 24 hours with her. My dd doesnt feel she has a problem, but yet she knows she isnt normal and never will be. I think today she is in a good state, but tomorrow she may not be. All I can do is support her, learn more and keep on top of her rtc. thank you everyone for your support and for reading my posts!   

plshlp5

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

bravo plshlp5 (hands are clapping) bravo! You done good girl.

It seems to me that was all on track and will produce results. I am very interested to know how the call with the T will go... .  

Now to your 'serious' learning. The first skill to master is 'validation' and in learning that come to grips with the other techniques that are so valuable to us - boundary setting, acceptance and more.

in the middle of class, my dd will raise her hand and when called on, will say, "what if i stand on my desk and begin sqwaking like a rooster?"   

I do so relate to that. I could have thought the same thing myself... .  sometimes class can be so slow and a drag. This said by me, a teacher! But thinking and doing are two different things eh?

Your daughter is normal by the way. But she has a mental illness. We don't call people with cancer not normal do we? The best thing about her illness is that it can be 'cured', she can learn how to regulate her emotions. And we can learn what that means too and become better people for it.

cheers!

Vivek    

[jellibeans]

well I almost didn't read your post but I am glad I did... .  made me cry a bit... .  I thought you did wonderful and said some beautiful things to your daughter. I know it is hard but I hope your daughter will take your advise and use her time wisely and try. That all we all want is effort... .  just try! My daughter I feel sometimes is like a wild horse I am trying to tame... .  keep the faith... .  don't give up

[lbjnltx]

Hello plshlp5,

Your phone call w/your d is touching.

You are wise to better educate yourself before you make any decissions about her treatement.  Figuring out what you d needs is based on understanding your d and the thinking and experiences that drive her behavior.

I don't think assigning fault will help the situation at all. I think it is best to decide if the program is a good fit and what she needs... .  the structure of it, the accountability tools, the therapeutic approaches and how your d is progressing.  It is quite common for kids to move from one rtc to another... .  it is a discovery process.  Either the program is working for her or it isn't.  There is no "one size fits all" in therapy models or rtc's... .  if there were... .  they would all be the same.  It is important that her treatment is tailored to fit her specifically so that requires flexibility in the program.

Try to get on the same page w/her individual t.  She is the one that will have the most imput with your d's treatment team and direct her care (within the structure of the rtc).  Share information with her... .  if she says something you don't understand or agree with ask for clarification and present her with clinical evidence to support your concerns.  My d's t at the rtc specialized in RAD and was working on her phd at the beginning of my d's care.  She decided to do her thesis on DBT for BPD in adolescents... .  we shared a lot of info back and forth to keep my d moving in positive directions in all areas of her therapy... .  she in turn shared her thoughts and plans with the rest of the treatment team.

Take care

lbj

[plshlp5]

Hello again everyone!

jellibeans, yes, sorry, i tend to go on and on, but hopefully soon, i can narrow down my thinking into a condensed version!    Thanks for sticking with me! 

Vivek , Thank you! You're right, saying and the doing - 2 different things. We've all been there and done that, but I would like to think most of us have a bit more restraint and dont ask to squawk in the middle of class... .  ... hahaha. I agree it is time for the "serious" part - the learning. This is why I have taken your advice and ordered the first book of many, Overcoming BPD. I am axiously awaiting it's arrival. I keep hearing about Validating, but am not sure of what it means. There are many terms to BPD that confuse me, and I'm hoping this first book will help clear things up. 

LBJ - you are absolutely correct. The first step is education. I cannot simply pull my daughter out of her RTC because of some  's, although I was very tempted to, last week.  This would not be beneficial to anyone. I need to be educated about my daughter and her new dx, what it means to her, to us, and to how this RTC can treat her. With all the wonderful and valuable information you all have supplied to me in this short period of time, I have been able to compile a fantastic list of questions and comments and bullet points of topics that are a great deal of importance to my daughter's care. I know and can tell they are doing their best, all around, to help her, and to answer any and all questions I have, and I feel confident I will get the answers I am looking for. I can just hope and pray that this time I am taking to research and educate myself isnt more time wasted. 

I did get an email from the Director of Education today at her RTC. He wanted to address his concerns, and mine (from an email I wrote 2 days ago to her T) about my dd. He is concerned about her inconsistencies in school, grades and behaviour. He also mentioned that she has declined all his offers for tutoring and she needs to be responsible to approach him for help. She knows he is available. He also stated her annual IEP is coming up with the school district in April and therefore he needs to do his assessments on her. I'm looking forward to find out what type of assessments he will be doing and what the results will be.

I think this is a great ending for this post. I thank you all for your helping me find my way here to this point. I will let you know how it goes with her T once I have the answers. In the meantime, I will keep researching and educating myself. You all have been wonderful.

Most Sincerely!

Plshlp5

[momontherun]

PLSHLP5 - Awesome job! It sounds like you really connected with her... .  even if she forgets tomorrow, keep reminding her  

I think it is very wise to learn more about this so you can keep having those moments - slowly but surely. What really helped me was to practice radical acceptance (although I didn't really feel it til months later- practice makes perfect right?), validation, reflecting back what she says and/or ask questions to help give more insight staying neutral and letting her have some control ... .  at least these are my steps.

when we start our conversation I simply ask how's it been going? if positive - That's great you feel_____ I sense it or hear it, I am so happy/proud so what have you learned since last time we talked?... .  If negative - man, its awful to feelhit__ can you tell me more - I am not there so I don't know then ask any question to prompt her to open up more like then what? or so when hit__happened how did you feel? ... .  Many people feel_____ especially whenhit__ or I would feel that way too if I thoughthit_- this typically leads us into our topic (right now we are discussing one emotion at a time, going over goals, worksheets etc.) thank her for opening up and being honest, proud of her for being brave its hard to open up like this etc.

You know your dd15 the best and she you - put it into your words whatever is the most comfortable for you. Its not easy and very foreign at first (I have a cheat sheet to look at while on the phone)... .  at first she didn't believe it was genuine however, I kept reinforcing that my love will not change no matter what she does or how she acts and we are in this together over and over again for a few weeks.

Remember - Baby steps  

[vivekananda]

Hi there!

Good to see you on track. You will 'enjoy' reading Valerie Porr. Re changing your communication, eg using validation, practise on others first if you can, I practised on strangers and it was so easy. By the time I got to talk to my own dd, I felt so much more comfortable and at ease, because I am woking on validation being my own default communication style... .  I'm not quite there yet.

plshlp5, the simple explanation of validation is that you are listening to the emotions in what a person is saying and acknowledging the emotion that is imbedded in the feelings at that moment.

dd "I had a horrible day at school today"

mum "oh, you sound sad"

dd "well yes I am sad, but more than that. It's so hard"

mum "you are frustrated too"

that seems simple, but there is a lot of complex concepts behind the communication. And the good news it that it can work on improving your relationship with your dd!

cheers,

Vivek