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Author Topic: Furious with AA for their treatment of mental health and my ex  (Read 868 times)
stoic83
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« on: February 02, 2013, 05:00:26 PM »

Hey all,

My exwBPD relapsed at my house and then painted me black and everyone around her blamed me due to her smear tactics. I wrote her sponsor and shamed her for pushing down my ex's psych systems and said that she needs therapy and that for someone with her type of issues the shame of AA and relapse can kill them!

All these talks of suicide and incest and threats towards me and physical abuse...   Yeah she might have been "sober" but who could abstain from self-medicating if they are suffering from an untreated mental illness?

I am disgusted and feel like my ex got cheated by the system...   and in turn I had to take the blame for her shameless behavior and relapse. I'm very angry at how my ex and others are being treated by this organization. It's just another addiction/obsession for my ex to medicate herself with and take her mind of her core problem which is not addiction, its her lack of impulse control due to having a treatable mental disorder. plus all the NPD and aspd men there...   she is a sitting duck. Luckily I think she is hanging with this older woman now(that she showered with at my house behind my back)...   she told me she is afraid this woman wants to use her for her inheritance (her dad just died). In any case, im 30 days out and counting...  

Feeling some anger right now and don't get out of the house at all! Gotta love this feeling!

 barfy

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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2013, 06:52:39 PM »

Why is your ex spending time at your house? Is this in your best interest?
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stoic83
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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2013, 07:08:08 PM »

Why is your ex spending time at your house? Is this in your best interest?

I kicked her out at the end of december..after she got out of chemical detox. I tried to do it in as nice a way as possible due to the fact her dad just died and was painting me black and Im sure is in a lot of pain. She was extremely abusive/manipulative/neglectful to me in the two months she was here (well after a 2-3 week honeymoon period) ...   (i finally agreed to live with her after four years and multiple requests on her part, her fathers death through me in to a heavy FOG where I felt I was responsible for her getting through this).

I figured she was 15 months sober, and I was worried she was going to attempt suicide during the grief process for her dad (NPD? ASPD? BPD? and molested or r**** her and/or her sister?)

In any case, I have been NC for about 30 days and this is it for me...  

Enough is enough...   but I feel that AA was holding her back from therapy and/or medication and that makes me angry.

She is still my exgfwBPD but I do not have nor desire to have contact with her and am done, finito, accepting of the fact that she is disordered and not going to recover from BPD whilst in aa and focusing on what they want her to focus on for her sobriety.

AA teaches her to be a phony, evangelical christian, and encourages her to hang out with other societal degenerates who are trying to get better...   but let's face it there are a lot of untreated mentally ill people in aa, i am sure there are also people who are doing AA and getting treatment for mental illness, but that is not what happened with my exgfwBPD.

If anything my relationship with a mentally ill woman has left me disgusted with the current system in place. She isn't going to listen to me...   i'm a man and was her lover...   so I told her sponsor what the chemical detox told me..that she needs CBT/DBT/ and emotional trauma hypnosis therapy to process her traumas...   pushing it down and going to AA meetings is not going to cut it.

in any case, in detaching from her...   I am sharing what was a major cause in my side of the broken relationship...   that I became negative towards AA, which was helping her to lead a better life...   but not helping her to get treatment for her mental illness that is denied and pushed down in aa

In the meantime I am putting up with all of this crap, because the people who were supposed to be helping her...   are aarogant aa-nazis who think that psychology is "bad" and that "the big book" is the only way.

Is there anyone else out there who has struggled with AA teaching an exwBPD to push down their symptoms to conform to AA? That AA's rigidity and abandonment of anyone who "falls off the wagon" could cause someone wBPD to have abandonment rage and hurt themselves or someone else?

I might just be projecting, but I am pissed off at her sponsor and family for not pushing her to get some serious treatment...   but maybe she hid her most serious symptoms from everyone else.

I don't know...  

best,

Stoic
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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2013, 09:01:56 PM »

Where is her responsibility for her own well being in your story? Doesn't AA have enough on its plate?
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GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?
This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving
All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)
stoic83
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 09:20:05 PM »

Someone with her condition isn't necessarily capable of making competent decisions for themselves, especially when having their sponsor tell them to push down "her symptoms and pretend like they aren't there." I understand what you are saying, but it seems that her sister isn't being treated for her bipolar disorder either. My exwBPD is impressionable, mirrors others, and should probably be in a controlled environment. I see her being extremely vulnerable to control and to making emotional decisions based on the validation of others. I also see her family being toxic and abusive towards her, and it seems that her particular group in AA has encouraged her to become closer with her family..which I see as a major problem in this particular instance. In any case, I think she has learned helplessness and is at the mercy of a program that discourages "labeling"...   etc...   etc. My exgfwBPD is convinced that religion and a higher power is going to solve all of her problems...   it's disturbing, but not my problem anymore...   in any case, it's what i take away from the situation. That AA helps her gain some introspection and complete the 12 steps and engage in group therapy...   but knowing my ex wBPD fully well she can totally "fake" her way through that and needs personalized attention. I was surprised that she was not seriously encouraged to be in treatment for her psychological symptoms which must have been witnessed more or less by these other people. She was convinced that she was just an addict...   it was only during moments of clarity that she discussed the fact that mental illness ran in her family, and usually some time after her periods of "sharing" she would rage at me for having this knowledge. Her dad (whom I strongly believe sexually abused her) and her sister all went to the same AA group. I don't understand how anyone can be fully honest in front of their family when they have been abusive and neglectful...   i understand that I'm looking to blame something else besides my ex for the rs disintegrating...   but I am also concerned about the lack of awareness and the stigma about mental illness. I have become passionate about this issue after seeing how much pain both my exwBPD and I have endured, and it is hard to blame somebody who is disabled...   even when they need to be accountable for their actions.

I bought her several books on BPD a long time ago before I was aware that it might be wrong of me to diagnose her or tell her i suspect mental illness. (i think i was 24 or 25 at the time). In any case, she seemed to agree with the diagnosis to some extent...   but i don't think she was ever diagnosed with BPD for insurance purposes.

Anyways, now she inherited a lot of money and hopefully she goes and receives some therapy.

Eventhough I am out of this rs, and know I can not be with her...   I do love her and hope that she finds a better path than the one she was on when we ended our toxic and dysfunctional relationship and stops going back to toxic advisers for reassurance, which is clearly something I suffer from myself...   repeating this relationship several times!

Best

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RedCandle
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2013, 07:45:30 AM »

Where is her responsibility for her own well being in your story? Doesn't AA have enough on its plate?

THIS.

I am a member of Al Anon, the group for those who have an alcoholic family member. In BOTH groups, there is a saying about the Three C's: "I didn't CAUSE it, I can't CONTROL it, I can't CURE it."

The sponsor or AA didn't "cause" the relapse, nor can they control it...   EVER.


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stoic83
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2013, 09:48:52 AM »

Where is her responsibility for her own well being in your story? Doesn't AA have enough on its plate?

THIS.

I am a member of Al Anon, the group for those who have an alcoholic family member. In BOTH groups, there is a saying about the Three C's: "I didn't CAUSE it, I can't CONTROL it, I can't CURE it."

The sponsor or AA didn't "cause" the relapse, nor can they control it...   EVER.


Okay...   I have been to al anon before and I found it to be helpful. I'm not trying to say that her sponsor or family caused the relapse...  
I am trying to say that AA doesn't deal with mental illness...   you see my exgfwBPD doesn't think about her mental issues. She thinks she's just an alcoholic or an addict...   in fact her sponsor tried to tell her and her sister that they were alcoholics and addicts when they were little because they had a very shame-based mentality.

Im pretty sure this isn't because my exgfwBPD was an alcoholic when she was 5 years old and scribbled outside the lines...  

During moments of clarity my exwBPD knew she was suffering from a lot more than just alcohlolism and addiction...   but it became convenient for her to use that label...   seeming as she has BPD, identifying and labeling herself as an "alcoholic" seems extremely harmful for someone with this disorder. Seeming as she suffers from a core identity disturbance.

In any case, not my problem any more...   but knowing that my exwBPD is very impressionable I have limited hope for her to find fulfillment through this organization...   and the organization encourages her to only be around other people in the program which I think is terrible for someone who mirrors and looks at all these ex crack heads, people who smoke on their babies heads, people who try to take advantage of her.

Im sorry...   but I view my exwBPD as an extreme version of an adult child, therefore yes...   I am holding AA and her parents accountable. Hopefully my extremely impressionable exwBPD rises above the "cult-like" mentality so that she can receive personalized treatment for her personality disorder and have a hope at living a more fulfilling life, widening her range of emotions...   and exercising left-brain, reasoning capabilities.

Quitting that "stinkin thinkin" seems like a terrible idea for someone wBPD. She needs to use her left brain MORE. She has no impulse control...   not because shes an "addict", because she has a metal illness.

Im completely alone on this one aren't I?

stoic
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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2013, 09:29:07 PM »

drinking to self medicate is a common problem of people with mental illness. She needs to stay sober if she is going to work on her mental health problems. These things are tough. AA is a resource not a miracle worker.
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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2013, 09:44:08 PM »

Part of my understanding of BPD is that substance abuse problems are frequent, and it is even one of the diagnostic criteria in the DSM-IV (Under self-harming behaviors). So, she could be an alcoholic, an addict, and have BPD. One does not exclude the others.

From my understanding of AA, they deal with alcoholism as a singleness of purpose issue. It is not a free mental health emporium. There are resources online where you can get official information on AA, as it seems your understanding of it is rather misinformed.
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« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2013, 12:47:30 AM »

I hear you, Stoic83, and I totally get it. My dad is a recovering alcoholic. AA helped him get dry, but it seemed to almost hinder him from any other sort of treatment, and i really think he needed it. It's not that "AA" did it, exactly, either. It's that it's a system for one main sort of thing, and it's easily used by people for that thing, but also as an excuse not to delve into their *other* deeper level things, which really require professional (psychologist) guidance.

Dad needed that professional guidance to deal with deep-seated childhood issues -- bipolar father who killed himself when Dad was 7 -- and with a 26-year marriage to my dxBPD mother. The addiction happened because he couldn't cope with either of those things. He had tremendous anxiety due to both of these things. In fact, I'm sure he wound up with Mom because he was emotionally so vulnerable still, and unhealed, when they met as young adults.

What happened is, through AA, he got dry. But he never got sober because he could fool himself into thinking that dry *was* sober. And because he was working the AA system, going to meetings for a good number of years, and never relapsing he could tell himself he was getting all the care he needed. Yes, it's him making these bad decisions, but AA is a great crutch.

I've been NC with him for several years, btw, because I'd finally just had it with his dry but otherwise unchanged, selfish, destructive, narcissistic, unhealed trauma-survivor, addict behaviors.

Peace and continued healing to us,

DogDancer
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rockman
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« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2013, 09:08:36 AM »

i understand what you are going through been involved in AA for 9 years and ii found  them and the teaching helpful with a women i was dateing for a year who i believe had a personality disorder. One of the thing that i got from them is take responsibility for your your own action you can only fix yourself...   i know you can get sponsors that are not train in disorders they are only people that are recovering alcoholic trying to help people that come to them for help...   with that said i have a good understanding of personality disorders and i know they have a way to twist the truth to manipulate the truth to benefit  them...   i am recovering alcoholic and found aa only a part of it...   i had to get private consoling to understand what got me there and to understand why i was dateing someone with a disorder...   it gets back to take responsibility  for my actions and look deeper into myself...   my PD chased after me for a year and half i stayed N/C and moved on with my life...   regardless of how she tried to manipulate me i would not respond..it will get better once they realize you are not on there crazy train...   wish you the best
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« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2013, 09:10:51 AM »

Hi stoic83

I had an addict in my life for many, many years. This person is NOT BPD. He had supposedly been clean when I met him and I wasn't faced with the reality of his addiction until he relapsed. This was after I'd known him for 10 years. THEN one day...   the severity of his addiction and all of the emotional crap that goes with it was thrown in my face.

Anyway, I often got frustrated with AA and NA because of the "canned" responses I'd hear from him.  I don't think AA or NA were helpful to him because HE was not really embracing the tenants of the program. He did just enough to get out of rehab with his chip du jour, but he never really believed or internalized any of what he supposedly learned there. He was merely parroting back what he'd heard because he knew it would get him what he wanted.  He knew if he said all the right things, he would be back in everyone's good graces because we would think he "got it."  Um...   he didn't.  This whole situation still makes me tight around the eye lids, so enough of that!
  
I also went to Alanon and found that very helpful.  The first time I went, I was in such a bad place because of dealing with all of the addict BS that it did nothing for me.  I came home worse off, really.  However...   as time went on and I had changed, I decided to go back.  It was a very good experience for me.

The thing is...   AA (and Alanon too) says NOTHING about being able to diagnose or treat mental illness.  It is a program that works for many and it they make it very clear in their literature exactly what they do.  It is not AA's responsibility to diagnose or treat your exgf.  I doubt that they are intentionally "pushing down" any of your exgf's issues.  They are just doing what they do -- what they SAY they will do.

The people who are involved in these organizations as sponsors are lay people.  They are not psychiatric professionals and never said they were.  Many of these people look at life with one goal, and only one goal, in mind.  SOBRIETY.  That's how it works.  And that's exactly how they say it works.

It's so frustrating when WE see so clearly that someone needs help.  However, you know how good your exgf is at playing the game.  She's doing that at AA too.  So, while I get your frustration, try not to be so hard on AA.  Their materials don't include the word "savior" anywhere.  It is ALL up to the addict/alcoholic.  And that's as it should be.

Your exgf may never get help.  That is just a fact.  Until the pain of her life becomes greater than her fear of getting help, her life will remain as it is (or get worse.)  And that will be true whether she's involved with AA, church, family, friends, etc.

Bottom line here is that you have chosen to leave this toxic situation and that is good for you.  As time goes on, you will focus more on YOU and quit trying to figure out where it all went to hell with HER.   It takes time.  Hang in there!

turtle
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« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2013, 09:51:30 AM »

It's easy to get frustrated with Mentally Ill people's treatment of AA

That is why AA has the boundaries it does.

Principles not personalities.




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« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2013, 09:52:30 AM »

It's easy to get frustrated with Mentally Ill people's treatment of AA

That is why AA has the boundaries it does.

Principles not personalities.



This is great!

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« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2013, 09:58:17 AM »

My ex got into both AA and SALA (sex and love addiction) at the end of our relationship, and from what I could see at that point, she went very much downhill. I'm sure it was not the normal experience. My ex hadn't been diagnosed with any kind of mental illness, as far as I know (she didn't tell her T what happened in our relationship, I know that), and once she started AA, she'd devour the books, and simply parrot their teachings in a way that didn't apply to her or to me at all. The books gave her a whole new language and set of teachings that she could apply to herself and life and ME that didn't make any sense to me at all. At that point, she painted me black in a way that she never had before, and accused me of the worst things possible. For some reason, what she was learning in her books and meetings gave her the understanding that she was a VICTIM, even more than she had ever thought of herself (she continually played the victim) and that everyone else was the abuser, especially me. I'd listen to her rendition of reality and just shake my head, because it made no sense whatsoever.

I'm sure that this was an unusual experience, because I know that for many AA and other addiction groups can work wonders. But for my ex, who had way bigger and deeper problems, it seemed to make things much much worse.
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« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2013, 11:12:22 AM »

I’ve been in AA/NA for close to 19 years, but I still got addicted to a pwBPD.  I didn’t know about BPD and thought that since she really didn’t drink that she had the potential for self-awareness.  I was wrong.  

Stoic:  I understand your frustration.  But perhaps it’s not directed at the correct people. Everyone one of us on this side of the board is frustrated that our exes did not seek, what we believe to be, the proper mental health therapy.  But I don’t know what’s best for others.  I barely know what’s best for me.

And it’s easy to resent any other third party.  But it’s triangulation (read definition).   The villains could be family, enabling boyfriend/girlfriend, abusive boyfriend, “best” friend, work…….in this case it seems AA and its members seem to be labeled as the persecutors.  Are you trying to rescue your ex from the evil people in recovery?  

But no matter the scenario, we’re still the rescuers and our exes are still the victims.  The Disorder always wins and the only way not to lose is not to engage, especially in triangulation (read definition)!

The 12 -steps of recovery groups include self-inventory including examining one’s past, self-awareness including shortcomings, making amends, daily inventory, and letting go of control.  These are generally not behaviors of most people, but especially those with BPD.   And, it’s not possible to force someone to work the steps.  But that’s why there’s meetings morning, noon and night, to help work the steps.  No one is forced to do anything.  

We can only hope that someone will choose to work the steps. And even if someone doesn’t work the steps, if they stay dry, they are generally they are better than if they are drunk.  There is NO hope for improvement for an addict who’s still using.  None!

But for those on this side of the board, we need to have compassion for our exes. I know it’s hard to me to look deep down at my own issues.  I can easily see how my FOO members, or my ex, other people have not looked deep inside themselves.   But it’s much harder for me to really look at why I permitted myself to become addicted to someone with BPD.   Most people would agree that a person with a sound sense of self-awareness wouldn’t permit such an intrusion into their lives.  

Stoic: perhaps the question that should be asked is, “Why did I become and am still so deeply addicted to and enmeshed with a using addict with a severe mental illness and the maturity level of a terrified three-year old?”

Freedom for me began when I started to answer the above question.  

And as a side note, CBT/DBT for pwBPD, as my T described is similar to building a fence to keep the animals from running amok.  It’s more just coping skills for the emotions so that the patient doesn’t cut/kill themselves or their partners with a steak knife.   Almost never does a T take the BPD to the point of self-awareness because it’s more likely to cause a psychotic break and external acting out including suicide.   So if a person is “high” functioning, limiting the therapy to coping skills is the best response to ensure that a T “does no harm” to the patient.  

So when we want our exes to go to the hard therapy and become self-aware, and if we force them to do it, they might end up worse or even dead.  I understood this at the end, and did not force my ex into anything.  I let her make her own decisions.  Because someone explained to me that my ex might do what I wanted, but the pain could end up killing her, which is a very real possibility.  Someone else’s partner wBPD on this board killed themselves over the holiday due to the pain.

Moreover, how many people wBPD have you even heard of that have found real self-awareness.  Those that can take responsibility, or actually feel empathy or compassion, or can sacrifice for someone else, or can make a real apology, or can fundamentally change or grow.  Really, everyone, how many pwBPD have ever reached the level of self-awareness.  .

Fundamentally, my ex is a child and just doesn't have the capacity for the change that I want her to make for ME.  I have better odds winning the PowerBall jackpot.  Wanting/hoping for that type of change from my ex. is just a symptom of my own self-rationization and denial of my FOO issues

But I will say that recovery groups such as AA/NA is the only place where I’ve found people with BPD (w/NPD traits) who have actually found self-awareness, and can change and grow.  Since I’ve been sharing my recovery from my exwBPD, some women wBPD have shared that have found some recovery from BPD.  Women who were prostitutes, in prison, beaten and raped…. These are people who went to meetings every day for years and had the rare courage to work the steps with the loving support and trust of other member of the group.  They all basically told me to give up on my ex getting better.  They have described how hard and slow their journey has been on them and that the vast vast majority of pwBPD just don’t do it.  

So that brings me back to the question:

What are the fundamental flaws within me that directed me to become and still be addicted and enmeshed with a person with a severe mental illness, and with the emotional maturity of a terrified three-year old, and who will never ever change?
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« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2013, 11:46:51 AM »

I've been a member of AA for numerous years, and without the 12-step program, I would most likely be dead.

AA teaches her to be a phony, evangelical christian..

AA teaches no such thing.  AA suggests that one find a power greater than herself/himself, but it does not define that power. 

In my experience, I have learned to be more introspective and spiritual as a direct result of working the 12-steps.  The work takes the focus off of others and puts in on myself.  I believe this is key to any type of recovery.  I cannot or do not speak for AA as a whole, but I can share that it is probably the single-most beneficial organization I've been involved with in my life. 

I also feel, and this is not just my opinion, that it's important for a pwBPD who also suffers from chemical abuse, to deal with the chemical abuse first before addressing the mental illness.  It is much more difficult to deal with mental illness while the abuse of substances is taking place simultaneously.

And like another poster mentioned, AA does have a singleness of purpose, and that is to help people stop drinking alcohol. 

I have used therapy in addition to AA to deal with issues other than alcohol, and I cannot see a pwBPD getting the help they need without therapy.  But I would see it as a great start if my ex started attending AA meetings.  The people who denigrate AA do not understand how it works.
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« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2013, 01:21:01 PM »

my stbxBPDh has serious mental health issues (uBPD (w/NPD traits)) was dx bipolar years ago- and his family has/had issues too. sister was dx with multiple personalities as a kid.
severe abuse from dad and passivity from mom. Just writing an inventory about that does not address the damage done to the individuals in that family!
he's been clean and sober with NA AA for 28 years and he claims that's all he needs. more AA. and even more AA. nothing else.

unfortunately his issues run way deeper than drinking or not drinking. he has never once made amends to me for the verbal and emotional abuse I suffered living with him. he can't admit to his own behavior!
I attended a lot of meetings in the past few years Al anon and AA, both. I never had a drink of alcohol. Just never wanted to. But I was curious, and wanted to support my H. So I went.

I don't admire the false intimacy that strangers "sharing" their most personal details in AA fosters. these people need to be sharing with therapists...   not a bunch of strangers.
The sponsors are NOT trained and often not well versed in the literature themselves. the blind leading the blind, although I agree that it feels good to know that others share your background, and know your struggle.

My problem with AA is that it seems to encourage"stuck-ness" in the 12 step system. if after 30 plus years you still need weekly or daily meetings to stay sober and feel/act normal...   something else must be going on.
if it helped as much as they claim-why don't they feel better, get better and STAY better?
it appeared to foster dependence on the meetings, themselves!

it seemed like an elitist system. you are either for them or against them.
many folks seemed pretty desperate, a bit flakey and self absorbed to me.(though not all)
it was all lookit me me me! I didn't feel like I could make one friend in those meetings. Al anon or AA.

I had a friend who relapsed on pain meds after a surgery, and her beloved sponsor dumped her-just when she needed MORE support-not LESS. So I question her sponsors commitment...   that's when you dig in as a sponsor and try again-seems to me. The sponsor said if you FAILED-then I can't help you.  "?" like she took it personally that my friend had issues with pain meds.
that felt harsh and made it harder on my friend-for sure.
GL


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« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2013, 03:22:11 PM »

Hi Gina Louise,  I've followed much of your story, and your pain and struggle really come through in your posts.  I appreciate your honesty.  It has helped me on my path.

I don't intend or want to start a dialog on the merits/or lack thereof of AA, but I do hear a lot of misunderstanding, which is understandable!  I agree that more is needed than AA for someone wBPD.  AA is not for treating BPD; it is to help people stop drinking alcohol.  Although I believe the 12-steps can benefit most people in some way. 

BPD is a deeper issue, in my opinion, than alcoholism, requiring professional help.  But if someone wBPD suffers from alcoholism, I consider it a huge step if they even attempt or deal with their drinking problem.  That says a lot more than what most agree to get help with.

I am not surprised that your ex did not make amends to you.  It seems pwBPD have an extremely hard time admitting fault because their shame is so intense that they feel they are inherently bad people.  Shame says, I am bad, rather than I did some bad things.  This could be dealt with in professional therapy.

You said that strangers sit around and share deep feelings.  I disagree for the most part, because in most AA groups the individual members who stay and work the program develop very strong bonds with each other.  I feel more comfortable sharing my feelings with certain members in AA than I do my own family, because I've found I cannot always trust my feelings with my family members.  I do not trust everyone in AA, either.  That would be foolish.  My point is that the group feels more like a family to me, much like the people here on Face the Facts.  However, I've always said that people need to be cognizant about what they share in a meeting, just like they do on these boards.  Some matters are better shared one-on-one with someone who is trusted, like a sponsor, therapist, priest, or whoever.

The sharing in meetings is actually very similar to what we do on these boards.  Someone starts a topic, and we discuss it and share our feelings around it as a group.  There's nothing secret or magical about it.  It's a very simple concept.  The part that draws people together is the mutual understanding of having been through similar experiences and traumas, again, much like on these boards.

AA members are just regular people, not experts on mental health.  There are wonderful sponsors in AA with great knowledge and there are sponsors who do not know what they are doing.. just like anywhere else. 

The reason people some people continue to stay involved after many years is because recovery can be a life long process, one day at a time.  You don't ever arrive; there is always growth to be made.  It is a spiritual path, a journey.  It's similar to asking why someone would go to church every Sunday for the rest of their lives or to Lion's Club for that matter.  It's a personal choice.

In conclusion, AA is not and does not claim to be the only resource or solution to someone's drinking problem.  It is merely a resource or a set of tools, yet one that has worked for millions of alcoholics who could not stop on their own.  I'm a strong proponent of people finding their own path in life, whatever that may be.  It's not my place to judge what is right or wrong for someone else.  I can only find that for myself. 

Peace be with you.
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Tausk
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« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2013, 05:01:24 PM »

Blaming AA for an individual's inability to find what we feel is proper therapy is like someone else stating,

"My friend is on this BPD board for ex partners and it's not doing him any good at all.  He still contacts his ex. He still acts and thinks like a victim.  He still won't look at his own FOO issues.  He still won't let go.  He still won't stay in therapy.  He still thinks he can rescue his ex.  He still would rather look at his ex's issues than look at his own.  He still blames her for his unhappiness.  He still cyberstalks his ex.  He still thinks that somehow his pain is linked to the current activites of his ex.  All he does is write on this board where everyone says he's ok, but what he really needs is a good kick in the pants...   "

Despite the fact the 90% of people with any time on this board will make recommendations against all of the above, how many people still don't follow the recommendations?  And remember we're supposedly the ones without the mental illness.   cry  

Anyone who has gone to Al Anon and actually worked the steps, understands that the Step 1 says we're powerless over others, especially those with severe mental illness.  

This board is basically modeled on the principles of 12-step recovery.  The ability to check in with others, the theraputic value of one person with the same disorder helping another, and the lack of judgement in how someone approaches their own recovery.  

The diversity of how healthy a single individual is on this board is not a reflection of merits of the board.  If so, I could point to many people on each post and say how terrible the board is for recovery.

And, if we want to be critical of how our exes didn't do something while in AA, how do we feel about the areas where we are lacking in progress for ourselves while on this board.

The simple rules, don't engage, take a self inventory, let go, and realize that our pain has nothing to do with the actions of our exes, but rather why we allowed and engaged in such a destructive interaction.   Where does judging the efficacy of AA/NA and our exes wBPD fit in with our recovery?

For me, any resentments or outside blame, attempted control of my ex, victim mentality for myself, and judgement of others simply keeps me in my disorder.   

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