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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: How's it going with BPD ex husbands?  (Read 1305 times)
momtara
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« on: April 16, 2013, 04:56:20 PM »

I read about a lot of the ex-wives with BPD here.  Wondering how it's going with women who are sharing parenting with high-functioning BPD ex husbands.  I am going thru a divorce with mine.  He's not an addict, holds a regular job, but has some issues.  He wants us to get back together, is getting therapy, wants to be back in the house... .   but I am too scared to let him back in because he imagines things (or lies, hard to tell the difference) and it's just too hard to deal with his manipulation anymore.  Maybe after years of intense therapy, he'd improve... .   but there are no guarantees.  He will say 'no' to things involving the kids just for control.  But I still care about him.  I am wondering how hard it will be when we're divorced. 

Right now, we have good days when he sends me sweet emails and stuff.  His therapy has stopped his criticism of me, but it hasn't stopped the lies and such.  It's going to be weird when it gets to the point when we both have to face that our marriage is over and we have to live largely separate lives.  I never wanted to be a divorcee and the idea of giving up the only person I loved enough to marry, that bothers me.  It will take years before I stop thinking of him as my husband.  I'm wondering if he'll split me black, be cruel, etc... .   or if there's a chance we can still occasionally do things together with the kids and be nice to each other, even maybe be friends.  Maybe I'm being naive.  Part of me wishes we could be married and just never have to live together, but that won't work out.  He will always want to come back and I can't keep telling him no and re-abandoning him over and over.

You may see me as confused.  I know what I need to do - just get divorced and try to keep my life separate from his.  If it weren't for this illness, though, I wouldn't mind spending more time with him.  Especially since the kids like it when we're together.  But it gives him the wrong idea.
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mamachelle
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2013, 11:13:30 PM »

Hi Momtara,

I think each if us with BPDexH's have slightly different issues. Many NonMoms are posting on thee legal boards to give you some perspective.

My exH was not an involved parent but he cared about his kids. Everything else, school, doctors... .   Summer camp, after school, friends, sick days, iep meetings, parent teacher, extra curriculars... .   Was all me... .   It was my job to deliver him 2 happy, well adjusted, perfect little angels EOW or whenever he chose of his EOW to see them.

I hid my dating from him completely. We both remarried others. He became abusive to the girls. Stopped paying child support... .   Now very limited contact with me. Nothing with his D!s. He was and is fairly high functioning but not college educated or wealthy so thank goodness not able to wage a protracted legal battle.

Wish I had a better story to share about him and coparenting ... .   but good news is now 8 years later... .  

My 2DD are now 13and 16 and are doing very well and mentally healthy.

Mamachelle
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sad but wiser
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2013, 11:51:00 PM »

Hi Momtara,

  In some ways my BPD OCPD stbxh has a better relationship with the kids now than he did before.  He is no longer in the house making them miserable and controlling every moment.  His criticism is much more limited and the kids can call the relationship quits if they want to.  This has motivated him to control himself more.  My kids are older 17 and 19, but all the control issues have left them less capable than most young adults.  I have faith that they will catch up quickly.  The kids are used to having my support and involvement and don't have any adjustment to make on that end.

  The good and bad days (emails and stuff) ended when I was simple, non-blaming and clear that I did not feel any romantic love for him or anyone else and was unavailable.  For some reason, he found that calming.  I can talk pleasantly to him, but then he wonders why we are not married anymore.  He was never concerned with meeting my emotional needs or being a true partner, so to him it seems like "business as usual."   This is not an easy task!  Maybe we will be able to get along at some point, but now only for short visits with other people around.
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mamachelle
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2013, 07:58:29 AM »

Hi momtara,

I just wanted to add that I did have times where I was sad that I could not have what I perceived as a normal post divorce ... .   Maybe what i saw in disney movies or my more progressive friends... .   Where things were easier for all. I tried and still do try to remain as calm, neutral, and kind in my communications with exH. I think it's worth a try for you to have calm short family time, in public with others around... .   I was not able to do it for long periods--- like over an hour or two. I considered my divorce to be a success on my part for getting myself and my kids away from his influence. I was happy to be out and my life changed. Friends told me I was a different person... .     Being cool (click to insert in post) I lived in fear at the end, so post divorce I still do feel frightened of him. I can work on that myself... .   but that's my own story.

Mamachelle
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« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2013, 09:37:20 PM »

I sometimes wonder if it is harder when you maintain feelings for your ex. My ex became scary -- and even if I rationalized that it was the illness (he is bipolar II), in the end he just scared me too much, and that made it easy to move on in some ways.

Like sad but wiser mentioned, in some ways my ex became a better dad after we divorced. The parental alienation thing has been challenging post-divorce, and I'm almost numb now to the crazy emails about coparenting S11, but he also started to idealize S11 which can be both awesome and confusing for a child (been there, done that, know how it feels). Now that S11 does not spend any overnights with his dad, everything seems easier to deal with. When N/BPDx tried in the early stages to be very engaged in co-parenting, it was bizarre how controlling he got -- like wanting to know the exact placement of the wireless router in my new place, the floorplan of our townhome, where we slept, who my new friends were, that kind of stuff.

I don't say this lightly, but I also think the difficulties made me parent therapeutically as opposed to the normal way that my friends deal with their children. I asked myself what it meant to be emotionally healthy, and what it meant to raise an emotionally healthy child. And that led to a lot of good parenting practices I didn't even know about. They weren't in my childhood, and they weren't there prior to leaving N/BPDx and getting into therapy. Feels like S11 and I weathered a storm and now we know what we're made of. Me more than him, because I have an adult perspective. But when I think about what he knows at 11 compared to what I knew at the same age -- he is light years ahead of me in wisdom.



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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2013, 04:38:26 PM »

2 years out from final divorce decree.

After 17 years of a horrible marriage, I was glad he was gone!  Even though his BS through the divorce tore apart my family,  having custody of DD and getting her needs met made a considerable improvement in our quality of life.

But the BPD BS never stops!  Before DD turned 18 and she still had court ordered weekends with him, he laid it thick and creepy!  And scary!  Swimming in Emotional Incest.  When she turned 18, she considered all her options and chose to go No Contact and life's been going very well.  So well, she thought about ending her weekly therapy.  Let's wait on that, Kid.

Well of course BPD wasn't going to respect her boundary of staying away until she contacted him!  She ended up traumatized again.  She wrote him a letter, once again explaining why she wants nothing to do with him.  Of course he doesn't get it!  He's taken his creepy scariness to an entirely new level.  She fears for her safety.  She's putting together a restraining order.   She LIKES living in the NO BS Zone, and she's realizing it's a big responsibility  maintaining it.
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2013, 02:11:08 PM »

Crazy and creepy are two of my least favorite things about the breakup.  2 am text messages, emotional blackmail, etc.  It is strange to think your life could go like an LMN movie or something.
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Rubies
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2013, 12:02:01 AM »

Crazy and creepy are two of my least favorite things about the breakup.  2 am text messages, emotional blackmail, etc.  It is strange to think your life could go like an LMN movie or something.

Crazy and creepy were my least favorite things about the marriage, too.  As soon as that separation happened,  firm boundaries were set an strictly enforced.  I won't put up with him and that's why our lives improved.

What we have to remember with our kids, they're going to have to deal with a BPD parent the rest of their lives.  They need the strength and insights to cope adequately at an early age so they can have a chance at a good life and not be swallowed up in the BS.

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momtara
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2013, 09:27:53 AM »

My husband (still separated right now, he's out of the house) is neither creepy nor crazy - in fact, he can be very sweet and gentle.  But he can also be angry and do things to get back at me.  Nothing physical.  He lies, changes plans, almost can't control it until the mood passes.  He is getting therapy for it now and would get much more if we get back together.  We are still getting a divorce but I still ask myself every day if it's the right thing to do.  I am doing it because - even though he is getting therapy and owning up to most of what he has done wrong - I think it will take years for him to fix his problems, and he's not willing to stay separated for years and work on them.  

But he will barely see the kids after we get divorced because he says he can't keep living in this area.  All his family has moved and he'll be alone and he may just leave.  I wonder if years from now, my kids will blame me for not taking him back.  He's said such sweet things about wanting to come back to me, and even though you may say it's just recycleing, he's been pretty consistent.  I also am a bit weak at disciplining my son - he's just so little and cute and I don't want him to hurt, so he kind of walks all over me (granted, he's a toddler so he doesn't need major discipline yet, but he does things like throws food on the floor and I don't say anything.  My husband is firm with him about stuff like that and he won't do it in front of him.  I wonder if my kids do need that male voice in the house).  They are going to lose a father, who to them - when they see him - will seem gentle and sweet and wronged by me - and I wonder if the abandonment will just send them down the same road to BPD.  

Of course, having him in the house will make me nervous all the time and might just be a disaster.  I wish I knew what would hurt the kids more - letting daddy (who they love) back into the house, or just letting him go.

What is best?
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2013, 01:37:08 PM »

But he will barely see the kids after we get divorced because he says he can't keep living in this area.  All his family has moved and he'll be alone and he may just leave.  I wonder if years from now, my kids will blame me for not taking him back.  He's said such sweet things about wanting to come back to me, and even though you may say it's just recycleing, he's been pretty consistent.  I also am a bit weak at disciplining my son - he's just so little and cute and I don't want him to hurt, so he kind of walks all over me (granted, he's a toddler so he doesn't need major discipline yet, but he does things like throws food on the floor and I don't say anything.  My husband is firm with him about stuff like that and he won't do it in front of him.  I wonder if my kids do need that male voice in the house).  They are going to lose a father, who to them - when they see him - will seem gentle and sweet and wronged by me - and I wonder if the abandonment will just send them down the same road to BPD. 

Of course, having him in the house will make me nervous all the time and might just be a disaster.  I wish I knew what would hurt the kids more - letting daddy (who they love) back into the house, or just letting him go.

What is best?

hi momtara,

Your H is making a choice to leave. He is a grown man who can live wherever he likes and he is choosing to leave.

Your kids are going to have a lot of questions as they grow older. This is not a bad thing.

I hope you find some peace here in the stories of all of us who are raising these amazing resilient kids.

You really are not alone and neither are your kiddos.

 mamachelle
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bethetree
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2013, 10:25:33 AM »

Wow!  For the first time I feel like I'm communicating with others who understand the trials of my life!  I have been divorced for only six months but unlike anyone else I know who is dealing with an ex, my story is so completely different.  The scary part is not the lies that feel like mind games; it is that he believes all of his lies and is so convincing providing partial truths to back it up, even I sometimes start to believe.  At the time of the divorce I just wanted it over and I did not have the money for a long court battle nor did I want to put the kids through it so I agreed to what the court ordered mediator recommended.  The court had ordered a Child Family Investigation (CFI) but the cost and time plus then dragging out the divorce for several years did not seem worth it since my kids are 14, 17 and 20.  Only the youngest would have been impacted by the decision since the older ones would be over 18 by the time it was completed.  We now share 50/50 custody for the 14 year old that is struggling and hurting in ways I cannot help.  My ex has played so many mind games with the kids that they are all convinced counseling is for weak people who are losers (like me) and would not help them.  The court appointed therapy for the kids was a joke and I cannot see that it helped and in fact supported dads opinion.   

Looking back I wish I had fought harder and completed the CFI, although the results would have been based on one person who might have bought into my exs twisted memory and that he was such an outstanding citizen, retired military, current sheriff employee etc.  Would they even notice he has no friends, has cut off all of his family except a sister who felt he had BPD and knew how to keep the peace?   He was not violent but would they understand the pins and needles we walked on to not upset him or his moodiness?   Even our two oldest bought into his twisted recollection and felt I was the one causing all the problems, not being supportive to poor dad.  The oldest has finally come around but our 17 year old is living only with dad and has become his confidant and significant other in all ways but one.  The emotional incest is heart breaking to watch.  I am trying to be consistent and supportive of the kids but wonder what the impact of this messed up life will have on them.  I had blinders on for so long but now that they are off I can see so much of what was wrong and for the kids still continues.

So in answer to your question, it has been hard.  He does not share medical or school information even though it is required.  I have made sure the kids doctors and school know we are divorced and share custody and requested I be included in all comunication.  I also check school website frequintly and have friends whose kids are in the same activites remind me of events.  I find it best to communicate via email or text and keep it short and without anything I would not want the kids to see since it will probably be shared.  Things I need to share with him regarding the kids I tone down if I know it will set him off (such as grades) and I send out the first day I have my son if possible so that my ex has a few days to calm down when possible.  I also avoid saying anything negative about my ex around the kids and if they do I try to help them understand why he reacted that way and what might have been another way to handle or options for them in responding.

Good luck and my new favorite phrase, continue to  “be the tree”.

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momtara
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2013, 11:51:32 AM »

Hi, be the tree.  I am sorry things are rough; looks like you are doing the right thing, though.  Are you breathing a little easier?  As for court battles, paying lots of money, etc., often you end up in exactly the same place you are now - just poorer.  If you read these boards for a while, you'll see that many people end up with 50/50 even when they spend money.  I am hoping not to end up that way because my husb is out of the house, and doesn't even take his visitation, but who the heck knows?

Bethetree - I have a question for you.  Do you think if you had to do it all over again and the kids were very very young, you would have?  Were there benefits to sticking it out?  At least you got to see your kids every day instead of just sometimes or most of the time.  Did you ever try to leave before and did you guys ever get counseling?  Also, did your husband ever physically abuse you or try to take the kids away, or say he'd lie about them?

What you wrote about the lies and mind games definitely hits home.  These guys are so good at it you can't tell whether they believe it or just have convinced themselves of it.  My husband is finally coming clean on everything and says he knew right away when he was lying, that he was lying.  However, he has been telling new lies.  So maybe these guys lie at first, then change their imagination to accept the lies as truth.  I've seen that written somewhere.

Hang in there - and any advice you can give will help.  I am very scared of hubby emotionally maniuplating our kids if he comes back in the house.
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« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2013, 07:19:55 PM »

Rubies, you hit home on the term, emotional incest.   Wow that's what is exactly going on from x2bh to d 12.  Its like he replaced me with her. No physical molestation that I know of but right to the line.   Many young females have told me or others that h always gave them the creeps.

  I filed a year ago, seperated six months after a long horrible marriage. I have a s14 too.   h still lies, deceives, controls, blames, stalks.  Court orders help but he plays with them too.    Custody battle still goes on.   But without him and much therapy I am gaining strength and though awkward still , a totally different person.   A better person. I am glad I didn't wait for kids to be grown to make the decision to leave.
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2013, 12:47:10 AM »

bethetree,

I'm wondering if he'll split me black, be cruel, etc... .    or if there's a chance we can still occasionally do things together with the kids and be nice to each other, even maybe be friends.

My ex sounds similar to yours who is very high-functioning.  We do stuff together with our daughter when we need to.  Consistently for awhile now we have been on the friendly terms.  I never know if I am doing the right thing. I see cycles even in our friendship and it still can hurt because I still care for him.  I have tried to be NC and it hurt our daughter, but it hurts her too I know when we do stuff together as well, or when we are civil not doing stuff. Either way they hurt.  It is what it is because it is the nature of this type of situation.

They are going to lose a father, who to them - when they see him - will seem gentle and sweet and wronged by me - and I wonder if the abandonment will just send them down the same road to BPD. 

Of course, having him in the house will make me nervous all the time and might just be a disaster.  I wish I knew what would hurt the kids more - letting daddy (who they love) back into the house, or just letting him go.

What is best?

They may not understand for a very long time, but one day when they are old enough they will see your side and understand your choice.  What is best you ask?  I believe it is always best for kids to see their mommy happy. 
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Rubies
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« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2013, 04:40:34 PM »

I think  BPD parents are great when the kids are little.  Playmates they can boss around.  The problem arises as the kids grow and exert a bit of independent thought, and their emotional maturity exceeds that of their parent. 

When the kids develop a sense of Self, Private Thought and heaven forbid, approach puberty, all hell breaks loose.  Normal human development is perceived as a threat to a BPD as they feel their control slipping.

The BPD assigns each kid a label, golden, black, whatever, splits and pits.  Each kid has to find their way of coping, none of which are healthy out in the world with healthy people, the unhealthy is what's familiar.   Raising my kids in that is something I will always regret.  Allowing BPDxh back into our home after our first split was the biggest mistake, after marrying him in the first place, I have ever made.   

DD18 is working diligently with therapy to recover.  I don't know if DD23 can or will recover, I am scared for her.
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momtara
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« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2013, 12:50:32 PM »

BPDstbxh wants to stay the night before July 4 and spend it with us.  I am probably going to say ok.  The kids love it when daddy and I are together.  They are so young!  In the short term, it's good for them, and nothing bad will happen in that short time.  Except that it gives him false hope that I'll change my mind about the divorce.  And then when I (probably) have to continue with it, it's like yet another breakup for him, a disappointment once again.

It'd probably be best just to be consistent and have a completely separate life (except for kid exchanges) but that's so hard!  I still care about him and I feel bad.  But I can't live with him.  If only there were really a drug that could solve all the BPD problems.
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« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2013, 04:43:24 PM »

Your feelings sound very similar to what i'm going through.  We are about a month away from finalizing divorce, and on days when my high-functioning BPDh is doing "well", he can be very kind and charming.  Then I second-guess myself and wonder if filing was the right thing to do.  Especially since we still have an 11-year old at home, and a son just leaving for college.

But then I have to remember that I didn't get to this point by chance.  It was the uncertainty of what his mood would be, watching the kids tip-toe around him, dealing with outbursts of gambling/drinking when he didn't think things were going his way.  After living this way so long, I'm not sure I know what a healthy relationship looks like, but I know this was not it. 

And for all the promises he makes and the times that he is doing well, he will occassionally slip back into the old habits, or start something new (like calling 26 times in an hour when he's upset about something!) and then I know that I need to get myself and kids in a better spot.  In the long run, it will put him in a better spot as well.  My mom came back from an Al-anon meeting the other night and called just to tell me that she learned "enabling is disabling".  How true that is for many of us that fell into the caretaker role for a person with BPD!  It takes a lot of strength to walk away and learn how to take care of ourselves first, allowing the other person to do the same.

 
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mamachelle
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« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2013, 11:22:45 AM »

BPDstbxh wants to stay the night before July 4 and spend it with us.  I am probably going to say ok. 

Hey momtara,

I would suggest you post about this on the Staying or Undecided Board to help you figure out the best way to deal with his request.

This is a big deal after being separated for many months.

mamachelle



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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2013, 11:36:48 AM »

Good idea mamachelle.

From a parenting stand point, I want to caution you on creating these situations that give the kids the idea things may work out between their parents. Every kid who's parents divorce holds out hope they will get back together. In my case, my ex told everyone he was divorcing me while we were separated (while at the same time going to counseling with me to work on our marriage). Son thought the separation was divorce and it ended with us getting back together for a short period of time before I actually filed for divorce. It was much harder for son to adjust to divorce, when he thought divorce meant you live apart, but still do things together as a family, and then everyone lives together again. I can see now that it was damaging to son.
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« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2013, 09:14:34 AM »

It'd probably be best just to be consistent and have a completely separate life (except for kid exchanges) but that's so hard!  I still care about him and I feel bad.  But I can't live with him.  If only there were really a drug that could solve all the BPD problems.

It is best for your kids if you are consistent. Consistency makes them feel safe, even if they don't express it that way. What my T said to me when I left is: You need to be the grown up.

Set boundaries. Be assertive. Don't waffle -- it's often a sign that you don't want anyone to have negative feelings about the situation. And in this case, with divorce, it's imperative they process the negative feelings. Otherwise you're modeling for them a very confusing and unhealthy relationship pattern.
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« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2013, 03:54:17 PM »

What my T said to me when I left is: You need to be the grown up.

That's a hard pill to swallow, but the total truth. It was hard for me to accept that not only am I a single parent, but I am my son's only PARENT. His dad is more like his best buddy.
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« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2013, 04:59:26 PM »

My kids are too young to understand anyway.  As for his request, he HAS stayed over a few nights, but not in the last 2 months or so.  So it's not completely unusual.

I know I can't live with him.  I doubt he's going to change soon. 

KIM, your hubby sounds exactly like mine, except for the alcohol.  My husband had some periods of calling 26x in a row.
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« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2013, 05:26:50 PM »

My kids are too young to understand anyway. 

I'm saying this only because I really messed up when my son was young, and wish I did it differently.

They do understand. They watch and see what you do -- some studies show that babies mimic their parents within 48 hours of being born. They notice your facial expressions, where you focus your attention, what makes you smile and laugh, the tension in your body when you talk to people. They see and notice and feel everything. They are learning their first lessons in intimacy from you -- you're the only person who is going to teach them what healthy, intimate relationships are about. They won't learn that anywhere else, not from teachers, not from friends, just you. They probably won't learn it from your ex, no matter how much you love him.

I think a lot of nons don't realize this because we shuttered a lot of our feelings for whatever reasons, and we underestimate how much learning and role modeling happens through non-verbal ways. We don't always understand healthy intimacy -- it's why we're here.

I didn't set boundaries for S11 when he was little. I wasn't assertive. I wasn't consistent. I did things with him, and spent a lot of time with him, and everyone I know would say I'm a terrific mom. But I didn't validate him or really understand emotionally what I was teaching him. Everything you do matters, it really does.

I try not to feel regret because I'm already so guilt-ridden, but the truth is I deeply regret how checked out I was when S11 was little. Talk to a child therapist about your questions because they'll be able to explain developmentally what matters to your kids in the early years. My turning point in how I saw this stuff is recognizing that I raised a codependent kid who is exactly like me, and I need to model for him how a healthy person sets consistent boundaries.

Sorry for the rant. I wish I could have a do-over. I've learned so much, and a lot of it came in too late  :'(
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bcomingme

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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2013, 06:41:31 PM »

I am going through a divorce after 18 years with my BPD husband. When he decided to leave he physically took our daughters and moved. they are 15 and 17. I didnt hear from them for two weeks. I begged him in emails to bring them back to their home and offered to leave if he would. I moved out with just my clothes and he came back. Even though I have shared parenting 50/50 they will not stay with me all night. They see me occasionally but are very fixated on being with him. Im really not sure the power he has over them because before all this he was not very involved at all, had multiple suicide threats, and was very impatient with them. When I am cooperative with him and agree with him the girls have positive attitudes toward me and I see them alot. If I disagree with him about something... . like the other day he let my teenage daughter miss school during exam week to go to an amusement park. I have don't hear from them or him for days. I get the silent treatment. My lawyer made me feel that I basically had no hope to get any custody or enforce visitation because of their ages. I feel so powerless against him. They are posting things on facebook like "I have the best dad ever" and everything. The sad thing is that my daughters and I have always been very close... . any advice?
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mamachelle
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« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2013, 08:45:33 PM »

I am going through a divorce after 18 years with my BPD husband. When he decided to leave he physically took our daughters and moved. they are 15 and 17. I didnt hear from them for two weeks. I begged him in emails to bring them back to their home and offered to leave if he would. I moved out with just my clothes and he came back. Even though I have shared parenting 50/50 they will not stay with me all night. They see me occasionally but are very fixated on being with him. Im really not sure the power he has over them because before all this he was not very involved at all, had multiple suicide threats, and was very impatient with them. When I am cooperative with him and agree with him the girls have positive attitudes toward me and I see them alot. If I disagree with him about something... . like the other day he let my teenage daughter miss school during exam week to go to an amusement park. I have don't hear from them or him for days. I get the silent treatment. My lawyer made me feel that I basically had no hope to get any custody or enforce visitation because of their ages. I feel so powerless against him. They are posting things on facebook like "I have the best dad ever" and everything. The sad thing is that my daughters and I have always been very close... . any advice?

bcomingme,

Hi. Please post this over on the Legal Board for legal help.

I do think you should try for visitation just to show the girls you have a safe place for them. I also think that you are dealing with serious Parental Alienation here. Make sure this is not a ploy to get child support from you.

You need to take care of yourself now and focus on you for a while. Go out with friends and get off facebk. Try therapy. Go for a walk. Write letters to your daughters... . not to send, but to tell them you love them. They are still children and you just don't know what is going on.

See this link for some perspective:

The complex issue of alienated children

  mamachelle
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thinkingthinking
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« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2013, 10:20:10 PM »


They do understand. They watch and see what you do -- some studies show that babies mimic their parents within 48 hours of being born. They notice your facial expressions, where you focus your attention, what makes you smile and laugh, the tension in your body when you talk to people. They see and notice and feel everything. They are learning their first lessons in intimacy from you -- you're the only person who is going to teach them what healthy, intimate relationships are about. They won't learn that anywhere else, not from teachers, not from friends, just you. They probably won't learn it from your ex, no matter how much you love him. [/quote]
I just have to add that not only will they NOT learn healthy relationships from the BPD parent, but in some cases they pick up some of the BPD behaviors themselves.  I also am divorcing after 22 years, and the worst part of it is that I realized too late how it affected our kids.  Our oldest daughter is now 21 and shows a lot of the same traits. It is distressing.  I am so thankful for our 3 children, but I too often wish for a "redo" where I would have understood more earlier.  Being separated has allowed me to communicate more openly with our children, and has allowed them to live in a less stressful environment. 
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bcomingme

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« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2013, 04:22:50 PM »

By law I am supposed to have equal time. 50/50 but they just won't go along with it. A few nights ago, my daughter texted me at 10pm and said are you home can I come over and talk to you. I said yes since I live right down the street now with my mother. She texted back and said "never mind Im not allowed."  I called my ex BPD and of course he was yelling that I thought he was the devil and she didnt need to come down etc. Then he said "fine I'll bring her" and drove like a crazy person down here... . I could hear his car screeching... . She wanted to talk to me about some fears and her not sleeping... . she was here only a half hour and I took her home... . this is what I am dealing with. Then today we have her birthday party and he is nice as pie... . Im so stressed out... . I never know what I'm going to get... .
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Rubies
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« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2013, 07:32:52 PM »

Yes, it IS stressful dealing with a BPD, extra stressful seeing what they do to our children.  We are the one who has to be the adult, and quite frankly the ONLY one capable of being the adult in these situations.

Lead your children by example by not being sucked into his BS.  They are learning how high the cost of having a relationship with their dad.

My two adult DDs got spun off the charts by BPDxh when he planned the divorce.  I think they are starting to get over it.   I asked a young friend what that was all about, their continued allegiance to him even after the divorce was final.  This young woman with bad parents didn't even have to think about it.  Money, he's giving them money.  They don't have to like him to do his dirty work and be his mouthpiece if they're getting money.

My Mommy Mantra:  Nerves of Steel, Will of Iron.    No matter how much it hurts, stay calm and be their for your kids when they're ready to fly his coop, then see they get counseling.
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Whichwayisup
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« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2013, 05:12:07 AM »

Yes, it IS stressful dealing with a BPD, extra stressful seeing what they do to our children.  We are the one who has to be the adult, and quite frankly the ONLY one capable of being the adult in these situations.

Lead your children by example by not being sucked into his BS.  They are learning how high the cost of having a relationship with their dad.

My two adult DDs got spun off the charts by BPDxh when he planned the divorce.  I think they are starting to get over it.   I asked a young friend what that was all about, their continued allegiance to him even after the divorce was final.  This young woman with bad parents didn't even have to think about it.  Money, he's giving them money.  They don't have to like him to do his dirty work and be his mouthpiece if they're getting money.

My Mommy Mantra:  Nerves of Steel, Will of Iron.    No matter how much it hurts, stay calm and be their for your kids when they're ready to fly his coop, then see they get counseling.

Thanks Rubies,

I needed to read that at the moment, haven't seen my S15 fo 2 weeks and everything was fine before that; feel like I need to do something but can't as stbuBPDxW (she is supporting his no contact with me... . with no reason given) and is playing him like a fiddle, he wont come along to stay with me when I have D3 & D10 and he aint responding to texts from me (harder that it's his 16th birthday tomorrow and I'm effectively cut out).

Feels like I should be doing something but doing something may make matters even worse... . It's raw hurt.

Whichwayisup
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momtara
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« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2013, 09:33:36 AM »

Bcoming me, that is indeed alienation.  Save all texts etc.  The tide in this country is turning against parents who alienate.  But I know it's hard to control teenagers or force them to do anything.  What happened to you is highly unfair and I feel bad.  (HUG)  When your daughters are older, they will see the truth, but I know it's hard to deal with right now, when you have been the best parent and worked so hard as a mom for so long.  You could try getting free legal consultations to see what other lawyers think, or just hang in there and be the great, loving mom that you are.

I can give a little insight.  My mom was nutsy and my dad left.  My dad was the better parent.  Because my mom was vulnerable, my brother and I stuck by her sometimes, even though I knew she was wrong.  I knew my dad would survive, and my mom was weak.  So deep inside, I knew my mom was nutsy and not a great parent but I still sided with her at times.  Plus, it was just easier.  It kept her from falling apart.  So your daughters may be kept with your husband because they don't want him to fall apart or don't want the silent treatment from him.
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