Advice needed: how to deal with mean, verbally abusive drunk wife?

[TriggerMortis]

I've had a surprisingly healthy relationship with my uBPDw. Lately we've been going through a rough patch and she drinks several glasses of wine to relax. This also puts her in a very horny or angry mood — it's volatile, and I'll admit it's not a very healthy gamble.

So, she'll start berating me and using personal attacks. She'll occasionally interject that she "needs her space" so I'll retreat to another end of the house. She doesn't chase me, but what she occasionally is message me on iPad (we are gadget lovers) some minutes later, or doing "baiting" behavior to try to draw me back. It's very difficult to escape this, because in the heat of the moment I'm tempted to reason with her.

In her sober moments, I ask her to not use abusive language because it's so hurtful. I ask her for compassion and grace and her reasoning is that she's "telling it like it is" and "not censoring herself" and that she has to be "raw". I say this doesn't help the situation at all. I've asked her to look at some marriage improvement articles with me so we can be on the same page about not fighting futilely, but in last night's fit, she really raged and tore them up as I headed to bed. (Yes, foolish me to come back and ask why she did that.) When she splits me black she can't listen to anything good. ANY positive comment is viewed as "manipulation".

I know she must help herself, but is there anything clear I am missing to deal with these episodes and retain sanity for myself? Thanks.

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[MammaMia]

Trigger

Alcohol and BPD are a toxic combination.  You could try to get her to attend marriage counseling where she can vent and you have someone there to mediate.

Where you are now is not a good place, and her behavior will continue to escalate unless you do something to try to stop it.  Is she physically abusive as well?

If she refuses to get help, then you will need to decide how much of this behavior you can tolerate and act accordingly.  It is very important to take care of yourself and continue to re-enforce that her behavior is inappropriate and will have consequences. 

I am so sorry for your pain.  This behavior is not unusual in pwBPD.  I realize she is undiagnosed.  That too may be something that needs to be done IF you can get her to admit she has a problem.  Have you read up on the informational materials here on BPD?  They may be very helpful.

This will be a long journey for you.  Please know we are here to help. 

[TriggerMortis]

MammaMia, thanks for chiming in. My uBPDw insists that she is not an alcoholic or substance abuser and this does not happen every day, but often enough (at least once a week) for it to be very visible and painful. She is not physically abusive, we have never hit each other.

She is seeing a therapist and bringing up other issues — during her last session she briefly brought up BPD, but did not continue on it. I asked her why and she became very secretive and upset, saying I shouldn't interfere with "my agenda" and that she feels "discounted". This makes me upset because she needs help to get better for both of us. She doesn't deny the possibility of BPD but has not moved forth. She also has ADHD which she agrees makes it difficult for her to focus — she has many household projects right now she is prioritizing first.

I am concerned about stating what kind of "consequences" this will have to her, because when I start being assertive she breaks down and cries/screams even more, and I suspect she's continuing to blab to her few friends about our marital problems. I've let her know before I don't appreciate being bad-talked to others since we should resolve these problems between us, but she hasn't been respectful.

Part of the problem is we have such a codependent, symbiotic relationship. I have disabilities (that she sometimes mocks when she's mad) and need help with a number of things she's always taken care of. When things are great, we soar.

I have read many materials here and several books on BPD. Thank you again.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi TriggerMortis

If drinking is a more pervasive pattern, maybe you should think about attending some Al-Anon meetings. Or you might try meetings with CoDa (codependents anonymous). Those are things that can help you more long term.

Right now you can benefit from working on your boundaries. You can't make her stop drinking or engaging in unhealthy behaviours, but you can change what you accept to be around and what happens when that boundary is broken.

What are your ideas on useful boundaries?

This is a great place for tossing out ideas and refining our boundaries before putting them in place

[TriggerMortis]

Scarlet, thanks — if she isn't willing to change for herself I want to change myself and see if my state can at least be in a healthier place instead of being sucked into her vortex of negativity so pervasively. Because when things are great, they really are. It really is like the classical example of being with "two different people" (or more!).

As for boundaries, I've read conflicting answers on this so I'm not sure what to do yet. I think it'd help me to be more assertive (she labels me as meek and passive during arguments) and state I disapprove of her behavior, and in some cases, to leave the house for awhile. It just hurts me that she retreats to her corner of the house and continues getting boozed.

Suggestions?

[TriggerMortis]

A few more thoughts: I think I have to work on feeling so powerless when things are out of my control, and my boundaries would be related to that. I've tried saying a few things about validation before but she got mad, saying I must've gotten them out of a book (I did! The Walking On Eggshells one) and refused to listen further.

It's because we've been so close that when she hurts herself, she hurts both of us so I feel that pain. But shortly after, things get good again and it's easy to forget what previously occurred.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

If she isn't willing to change for herself I want to change myself and see if my state can at least be in a healthier place instead of being sucked into her vortex of negativity so pervasively.

That's a very good start    And exactly what this board is all about, changing ourselves and getting healthier so that our relationship will be healthier. There are many tools and articles available to help us do this. Like the Lessons ------------>

As for boundaries, I've read conflicting answers on this so I'm not sure what to do yet.

What are the conflicting answers you've heard?

I've tried saying a few things about validation before but she got mad, saying I must've gotten them out of a book (I did! The Walking On Eggshells one) and refused to listen further.

 It's a bit tricky in the beginning, because it doesn't feel natural. Try practising with others, like the clerk at a store or at work. It'll get easier. Here's a great link that's helped me a lot in conflict situations with my dBPDbf: Before You Can Make Things Better, You have To Stop Making Things Worse

[MammaMia]

Trigger

Obviously, you have NOT forgotten her bouts of cruel, demeaning behavior toward you.  Yes, she is sick, but she also needs to be held accountable for how she treats others.  It sounds like she vents her frustrations on you and her friends. Very characteristic of BPD... . EVERYTHING is someone else's fault.  :)o not be so sure her friends believe what she says about you.  They may recognize that she has issues.

I am glad to hear she has been in therapy.  Many therapists are reluctant to diagnose BPD because it is very difficult to treat.  To get better, it requires  pwBPD to be totally committed to getting better, and most of them are not.  They often fail to even recognize that they are disordered.  You may want to speak to her therapist to get their opinion on joint counseling.  Your wife may be more amenable to it, if her therapist suggests it.  More importantly, it would allow you to have input into the discussions.  

You sound confused as to your role in the marriage.  You stated that you need to be stronger and that your wife sees you as weak.  Compassion can often be confused with weakness by others.  

One thing is for sure... . you need support to deal with her behavior.  We all do, and being able to vent and discuss our situations here is a wonderful resource.

Having said that, you are the only one who can make a decision as to what to do next.  

[waverider]

There needs to boundaries with clear actions YOU enact. You are right there is no point negotiating or just making demands it will just provoke a defensive response. Your actions in response to boundaries may have to seem extreme and over the top, but they are designed to stop the behavior in its tracks. Small consequences will just be stomped on and taken as a futile attempt to control her. As well as an excuse to "drive her to drink".

There will be a backlash to any changes, you have to weather these. If you back down you will demonstrate that boundaries can be broken and so she will keep trying to do so.

Expect her to complain to third parties, this is usual, you need to ignore this.

As others have stated there are underlying co dependencies issues here, an underlying desire / obligation to help/fix/ appease your wife. If she has a disorder her thinking is damaged and illogical, hence negotiating behavior with logic simply won't work, as you are debating with rules someone who has no rules.

I went through all of this, and relearning to be an issue and isolate myself from this stuff was the only way out. As long as I interacted trying to change this the longer it continued. My interference was taken as devaluing etc. My involvement became her avenue for projection of responsibility. As long as she could do this she was not desperate enough to change it. Drinking issues really do need rock bottom with serious consequences to turn around, otherwise it becomes a place to retreat to when times get hard. It needs to be an even harder place to be in to loose it's appeal