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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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kyoko

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« on: November 27, 2013, 12:12:44 PM »

Hi everyone, just wondering if anyone experiences this with BPDh/w.  My ustbx is a radical born again christian.  I love the that my children know Jesus, however I think there is a healthy way to be a christian and an "unhealthy" way.  Bpdh is always lecturing D8 and D6 about the bible many time over an hr, a few times a day without them being able to talk and sit there concentrating only on him.  Also most all conversations with BPDh turns religious somehow.  These lectures often are about however he is feeling or about something he has done (who knows what?).  Has anyone experienced these type of lectures?  Is it normal for born again christian to do this?
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scraps66
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Relationship status: Separated 9/2008, living apart since 1/2010
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« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2013, 10:07:04 AM »

I have the religion thing going on.  My exuBPD/NPDw "claims" to be so religious, the kids talk about how they say grace at meals, ex of course stipulated in our custody order that the kids would be raised Catholic, enrolls them in CCD that is diffiuclt for me to support due to time of day during the week, etc, etc.  Now, my ex, and her mother, both of witch "claim" to be devout church goers... .also have five bad marriages between them, my ex lured me by forgetting to take her birth control, having a child, then having another child under similar circumstances, then assumed everything I had and brought to the relationship, money, house, cars, etc. would become hers.  Total fabricated plan.  These are not credible church goers, these are church going hypocrits.

How to deal with all this, not usre, i don't think there is much that can be done otehr than having faith in your children that they htmeselves with your help can benefit from the church, but can rationally recognize not everything comes back to the church.  I have had disucssions with my ex's mother about her daughter's beahviors, when she doesn't know what to say, or that I'm amkign too much sense that her daughter is nuts, then it wsould come back to me, "God is working well with my daughter, is he working with you!"  No - but I'm not crazy either.  haha 

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Matt
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2013, 12:02:12 PM »

How old are your kids, Kyoko?
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kyoko

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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2013, 02:28:17 PM »

Hi scraps66... thank you for sharing your experience.  I'm so sorry you have to deal with the craziness too!  Hi matt... my D's are 8 and 6.  Right now I'm very scared of losing my 8 yr old to BPDh because of his brainwashing (mommy's selfish(divorcing so you guys could see her family and friends whenever she wants, (breaking up the family what the devil does),not christian as a result not forgiving, a drug addict, the crazy one, the one with problems, not in reality, having you guys (D's and I) live in a tiny apt that's a dump, mommy's going to take our house away, not being respectful to BPDh by leaving him ect?  When I left with kids w/o him knowing to an apt because I was scared of his reaction if I told him face to face(he has prevented me and kids from leaving during his tantrums and has pulled kids away from me and has been physical with me (not often).  I had no idea my daughter 8 would start to behave like she is.  I knew at the house she was often wouldn't listen to basic things like it's bed time, time to brush teeth ect.  I figured it was an age thing and I also knew that she was doing this because I have let BPDh be so disrepectful to me and she is modeling his behavior.  Not thinking much of her behavior, I thought it would eventually get better once we were out of the house.  I forget that kids take everything you say literally especially from mom and dad.  So as it gets closer to mediation his lies about me and distortions of how he is the "devout christian dad" victim of having the kids taken away from him and me ruining the family have escalated.  My D8 has told me your not respecting daddy because your leaving him, daddy never yells, daddy just wants family together, why are we living in this stupid small apt, she hates me,  she not listening to me and my stupid rules,ect everything that has come out of his mouth is coming out of hers. Over the 2-3month or so she has been throwing tantrums and locking herself in the closet or where ever she can.  Last week, for the first time, she ran out of the apt and hid behind a garbage dumpster because I told her she needs to turn off the computer and get dressed and brush teeth?  Yesterday she had two tantrums and both times she said to me if you don't do this, I'm going to this.  I am at my wits end trying to figure out what to do. I have to set rules and boundaries or else she will turn out just like her dad(she already is).  However, I feel like I'm pushing her away. I know what the right thing to do is but I'm so scared of his power over both of them, his brainwashing and lies will make them hate and resent me.  Thank you for reading, just needing to vent but also would love to get advice about this other issue with D. 
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Matt
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2013, 02:38:30 PM »

My suggestion would be ":)ivorce Poison" by Richard Warshak.  It's about how parents talk to kids during and after divorce, and how to deal with it when the other party is telling them negative things about you.

Basically he doesn't say, "Take the high road" and he doesn't say "Fight fire with fire."  He gives a very solid, sensible way to understand what is going on, and to talk with kids, so you help them see more clearly and not get sucked into the other parent's craziness.

It's important to act fast, because once the alienation takes root, it can be much harder to fix.

You might also want to consider counseling for the kids, not because there's something wrong with them, but because they are in a very difficult situation, and a good counselor might help them learn skills to deal with this stuff.  You can't look for someone to "take your side" - look for someone who will be a good long-term resource for the kids, and let the counselor do her job.  She won't tell you everything - she'll give the kids some privacy - so you'll have to trust that she is doing her job and helping the kids, not helping you in your conflict with your ex.
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starshine
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Relationship status: out of r/s w/baby daddy 15 yrs, out of r/s w/N/BPD exbf 2+ yrs
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2013, 03:15:49 PM »

My suggestion would be ":)ivorce Poison" by Richard Warshak.  It's about how parents talk to kids during and after divorce, and how to deal with it when the other party is telling them negative things about you.

Basically he doesn't say, "Take the high road" and he doesn't say "Fight fire with fire."  He gives a very solid, sensible way to understand what is going on, and to talk with kids, so you help them see more clearly and not get sucked into the other parent's craziness.

It's important to act fast, because once the alienation takes root, it can be much harder to fix.



You might also want to consider counseling for the kids, not because there's something wrong with them, but because they are in a very difficult situation, and a good counselor might help them learn skills to deal with this stuff.  You can't look for someone to "take your side" - look for someone who will be a good long-term resource for the kids, and let the counselor do her job.  She won't tell you everything - she'll give the kids some privacy - so you'll have to trust that she is doing her job and helping the kids, not helping you in your conflict with your ex.

Get the kids into counseling if you can.  Parental alienation is no joke.  It is awful.  Me and my kids have gone through it, and honestly, I wish I would have let my friend who offered to deep 6 him years ago to do it.  I said, "Oh no, it's important for my kids to have a relationship with their father."  What a bunch of baloney,  he just spent years scrambling their emotions and brains.  The behavior he exhibits is now a certain level of normalcy for them.  And our relationship is damaged- hopefully as they grow and get therapy they will see what a brutal nut job their dad is.  But since he walks the line of straight white business man, he looks good until you scratch the surface.

My last PDbf was a great lecturer.  He would talk and talk, always too quiet, so people had to strain to hear him or ask him to repeat themselves.  Never any consideration whether or not anyone actually was interested in what he had to say either.  Keeping captive audiences captive, as opposed to captivated. 
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Kadee

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Relationship status: Married 34 years
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2013, 09:56:40 AM »

I am a born again Christian. I wear my faith on my sleeve, I don't and never have "lectured it". Children learn best by what they see and how they are treated. I pray my actions have far outweighed their BPD fathers lectures, Bible thumping and mistreatment of them, all in "the name of God" Christ was never central in our marriage, although now that it's over, the BPD tells me He needs to be. Too little, too late, and not without a great deal of soul searching on my part (and I don't trust that he's telling the truth). I would say young children would learn best from Sunday school, it fits their attention span, and always good to HEAR from others what they (should) SEE at home. Not that parents shouldn't teach biblical stories, they should. But not lecture young children.
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ForeverDad
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Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2014, 07:39:38 AM »

These are not credible church goers, these are church going hypocrites.

As Jesus stated succinctly, "By their fruits you will recognize them." (Matthew 7)

I wonder if that's why some people are referred to as 'fruitcakes'?  That's probably the basis for other proverbs such as ":)o as I do, not as I say" and "Actions speak louder than words".
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Turkish
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Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2014, 10:08:22 AM »

These are not credible church goers, these are church going hypocrites.

As Jesus stated succinctly, "By their fruits you will recognize them." (Matthew 7)

I wonder if that's why some people are referred to as 'fruitcakes'?  That's probably the basis for other proverbs such as ":)o as I do, not as I say" and "Actions speak louder than words".

Actions, not words, exactly. Mine did a weird thing... . she brought the kids to our church on her weekend. I was surprised she did this. I ended up sitting with her and D1 in a "family room" (a room set aside mostly for parents whose kids don't handle daycare). It was odd, being only two weeks physically seperated. My uBPDx is a seeker, has been flirting with Buddhism (the meditation techniques and her tai chi classes may be helping her). She appreciates I take the kids to church and Sunday School. S4 does fantastically there. Not sure what this is... . mirroring me still? It kind of bugged me (I found this church last year after I found out about her affair, realized I needed to get back to the God whom I had neglected througout our r/s). But who am I to stand between her and God? If she really accepted Christ, it would be interesting, as the truth of her actions would convict her.

As for lectures, her lectures consist of relationships and child-rearing. Religion, not so much. I offer my opinions (such as from her hypocritical Bible verse quoting paramour, a faux spiritualist from what I saw), but mostly sit back and listen.

Be the example, yes. It must be so much more difficult trying to parent with someone who cloaks themselves in religion though.
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