If you could start over, would you still marry your BPD?

[Depression = 72% of members]

If you could turn back time, knowing what you know now, would you still marry them? 

[Mazda]

If you could turn back time, knowing what you know now, would you still marry them? 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[SweetCharlotte]

Yes, definitely. It will be four years soon.

[goldylamont]

i didn't actually marry my xBPD, however i'm truly interested in hearing of the experiences of others here for a friend of mine. i have one friend who is still struggling in a r/s with someone diagnosed with BPD and i want him to hear different perspectives from people who have chosen pwBPD as life partners. so, thanks for asking this question and apologies i have no input, but i would love to hear the responses.

[misneach]

I have been asked this very same question many many times in the time we have been together (1 year together, 6 months married). No matter how difficult the road has gotten and it hasn't been pleasant for the most part, I'd do it all again. I do not regret this marriage; he is the only one for me and I love him more than I ever thought possible. Just remember... . when the going get's tough... . the tough get going.

[waverider]

Not married but in a committed relationship. If I knew how it was going to evolve would i willingly enter it again? No. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. Things are rosier now but myself and my kids have been through the horrors before I got a handle on it. I would not choose that journey again.

[zaqsert]

Based on what I have been through and what our D3 still goes through, I would also say no.

But on the other hand, if it were not for my uBPDw and all that I've now been through, I likely would not have grown and worked on myself to the point where I can now, in hindsight, say that I would not do it again.  Although it was not her intention, I owe her a thanks (of sorts) for doing her part to set up the perfect storm that finally shook me into figuring out that it is my right and in my control to become who I want to be.  I hope that's some of my old codependency melting away.

And I am still staying, so I still have some hope left.

[waverider]

But on the other hand, if it were not for my uBPDw and all that I've now been through, I likely would not have grown and worked on myself to the point where I can now, in hindsight, say that I would not do it again.  Although it was not her intention, I owe her a thanks (of sorts) for doing her part to set up the perfect storm that finally shook me into figuring out that it is my right and in my control to become who I want to be.  I hope that's some of my old codependency melting away.

This is a truth. Boys turn into men in the trenches out of necessity.

[SweetCharlotte]

So far, the gender split is perfect, with wives (2) saying they would marry their spouses with BPD again, and husbands (2 or 3) saying they would not.

[waverider]

So far, the gender split is perfect, with wives (2) saying they would marry their spouses with BPD again, and husbands (2 or 3) saying they would not.

Does that show which sex is more tolerant, or does it show which sex is the hardest pwBPD to deal with? 

[SweetCharlotte]

So far, the gender split is perfect, with wives (2) saying they would marry their spouses with BPD again, and husbands (2 or 3) saying they would not.

Does that show which sex is more tolerant, or does it show which sex is the hardest pwBPD to deal with? 

I strongly suspect my late mother had BPD, and if that's any basis, she was much harder to deal with than my uBPDh. She had two children (my brothers) by extramarital lovers, but held onto my dad for dear life. She threatened me with knives and other implements. There are crescent-shaped scars from her fingernails on my forearms. After all this, my uBPDh is a total teddy-bear.

But by all means, let's hear from more spouses of the Staying variety, whether they corroborate this initial finding or not.

[CodependentHusband]

It's an interesting question... . As was brilliantly stated by someone else in this thread, I have grown through this in way that I know would not have been possible otherwise. Ultimately though, I wonder what life would have been like if I wouldn't have married an alcoholic for marriage 1, and a pwBPD for marriage 2. I'm not 100% certain that I am a better person for learning to adapt to this situation. If I would have known before I fell in love with my wife, I'd have to say, no, I wouldn't do this again. The reality now though is that I love my wife very much, and I'm here to stay as long as I can. Things have gotten much easier on the whole, thanks in no small part to the tools and advice I've gotten from this very web site.

[Mazda]

Can you tell when you are being manipulated?  Or lied to? Has their behaviour ever caused you to be horrible to someone else?

[sadinsweden]

Really really hard to say. I'm not married but engaged. I moved to Sweden to be with my BPD. I will say, I'm angry at him. I feel he totally misrepresented himself to me (yes, I know this is not his fault). Even after 15 years of knowing each other, you really don't know someone until you live with them.

I don't think I will in fact marry him (Not really a problem because people stay engaged in Sweden forever ... . It's a cultural thing). While I think I'm getting a pretty good handle on the BPD, it's the alcohol that really grinds my gears.

Yes, I'm staying. I'm committed. I believe this has made me a better, wiser, more compassionate and stronger woman. But frankly, I'd wish this on no one and it certainly isn't the love story I imagined.

[guitarguy09]

This is a tough question. There are some days like this past Christmas where I absolutely know I married the right person regardless of what they have going on. Then there are days like yesterday that I get treated like total crap for something I would consider that should be left alone. My uBPDw has a habit of making mountains out of molehills, and has an attitude of revenge towards people she feels wronged by. It has been very taxing on me and my family which we are basically detached from at the moment. Overall I would have to say No just because I have strong doubts as to if she will actually get into therapy to help get coping skills, and I don't know if I have the intestinal fortitude or the will to get divorced, since we have an almost 2 year old son. Also I think if she continues down this road, she will be limiting his personal growth.

[Hope26]

This is a tough question, and no two of us have had the exact same experiences, so it is understandable there are such different responses.  However, mine would be a definite 'yes', because when he is good he is very, very good and demonstrates love that I feel is very genuine by doing things for me all the time.  I love him for the essential goodness of his nature.  Of course I hate the rages when they occur, and wish I could have had some kind of warning (don't we all!)  But that's why I'm on the 'staying' board.  So far the main tool I've mastered is to avoid the 'JADEing' and that has helped immensely.  Talking to all of you helps, more than I can say.  I had never heard of this illness, and I believe most people have not, so it's hard to find a sympathetic ear anywhere else.  Also, I very much agree with those who have said that learning to cope with this is emotional growth for us.  I do believe everything in life happens for a reason.  That's my 2 cents worth!

[sunshine40]

Good question:

After 22 years and 4 kids (whom I love)... . if I knew at 19 what my life would be like the answer is a resounding #e! no. (one for the women)

But I'm still here and plan to stay.

However, I do not wish my life on anyone.

[guitarguy09]

This is a tough question, and no two of us have had the exact same experiences, so it is understandable there are such different responses.  However, mine would be a definite 'yes', because when he is good he is very, very good and demonstrates love that I feel is very genuine by doing things for me all the time.  I love him for the essential goodness of his nature.  Of course I hate the rages when they occur, and wish I could have had some kind of warning (don't we all!)  But that's why I'm on the 'staying' board.  So far the main tool I've mastered is to avoid the 'JADEing' and that has helped immensely.  Talking to all of you helps, more than I can say.  I had never heard of this illness, and I believe most people have not, so it's hard to find a sympathetic ear anywhere else.  Also, I very much agree with those who have said that learning to cope with this is emotional growth for us.  I do believe everything in life happens for a reason.  That's my 2 cents worth!

I think you are a more positive person than I am, but I appreciate your viewpoint. It does make us stronger in being able to deal with more. But it just gets really tough sometimes. Especially when my uBPDw really doesn't get along with my family because of different personalities. We get along famously together and I thank God that we do, but we have good days and bad days probably like most here. I guess I never had an easy time meeting new people before I met her, but I can't say if I would find someone as compatible when we are getting along.

[FullMetal]

As much as it pains me to say... . No...

There were good times, but the bad times still weigh heavier.  knowing what I know now, I really don't think I would.  There were enough warning signs early on that I ignored, that I know now were warning signs.  the fact that she cheated on me within the first 3 months of our relationship.  the fact that she knew that was a deal breaker for me.  The fact that I STILL haven't received even an apology for those actions or even an acknowledgement, just repeated denials in the face of overwhelming evidence.  yeah.  I'd say no... . my life would be very different, and i'm not even sure how different it would be.   

But does that change anything today?  No.  I love her, She has gotten help, and either she got really good at hiding her cheating (besides emotional cheating)  or it's stopped/moved to emotional cheating)  we're working on that part now, but yeah... .   If I could save myself that heartache and the anger and the problems I'm now experiencing?  I most certainly would.   but to be fair if I could go back that far and retain what I know, I'd go back further .  and I'd probably never be put in the situation of knowing my dBPDw. 

[Single Malt]

Tough one for me.

Had we not met and later married, I would not have moved to the town I currently live in and would not have made wonderful friends here. 

But, if that was not a consideration, I would have to say NO.

[Wrongturn1]

Fascinating question and one that I ponder from time to time. 

Knowing what I know now, no, I do not think I would do it again.  The effects of the disorder are damaging and pervasive in my life and in the lives of our children (who I would never wish out of existence, for the record).  Being married to someone with BPD has strengthened me in many ways and taught me many lessons I would not have learned otherwise, and I am grateful for that.  And I'm committed to staying. 

It's a difficult existence though... . not the dream life that I could have without the disorder present.  I really think that my wife, minus the disorder, would be the perfect spouse.

[Mazda]

It's a difficult existence though... . not the dream life that I could have without the disorder present.  I really think that my wife, minus the disorder, would be the perfect spouse.

I find this point interesting as when I think about my ex and the more I learn about BPD the more I realise that he is nobody except a walking BPD vortex.  In hindsight, even the loving perfect man was part of a manipulation technique to use me.  I'm pretty sure my ex has severe BPD and comorbid NPD and so is very sick, but how do you separate the person from the disorder?

Apologies for the pessimism on the staying board but the opinions here are very different from on the leaving board and I'm still trying to understand what I went through.

[Seneca]

impossible to answer, because i certainly would not want to give back my beautiful kids. let's pretend they never existed, in that case, no. never ever ever would i have stayed. yes, i have experienced unbelievable personal growth, and i have experienced material benefits i couldn't have enjoyed on my own. but truthfully, i'd rather be living in the ghetto again, with my self esteem intact, than having all the material comforts of life together and be the emotional basket case I am now.

another "no" for the ladies. though i do agree with the above poster, it seems that females with BPD tend to have more torturous dsyregulations than the men. what some of the guys have gone through... . help me rhonda, i'd probably have killed myself.  :'(

[maxen]

you know, even during the marriage (we're divorcing) i asked myself this question: would i be happier with this marriage, unhappy as it sometimes was, or staying single? and i could answer firmly: with the marriage. but with the deceit with which she blew it up, with her viciousness and personality alteration afterwards, and with the fear of the divorce process in which i live now, i can't say anymore. i just can't say one way or the other.

I really think that my wife, minus the disorder, would be the perfect spouse.

there are many great things about my stbxw and i loved her and those great things. i don't know how well i can extricate 'her' from 'her BPD' though. e.g. she could be a live wire, and that turned me on, but was that a function of the disorder?

I'm not 100% certain that I am a better person for learning to adapt to this situation.

and whatever lessons i've learned, i could have learned in a different way.

[Wrongturn1]

Mazda:

Separating the person from the disorder is very difficult due to their identity issues.  I'd say that I get glimpses of the person separate from the disorder from time to time, although it's not always easy to differentiate.  I try to pay close attention my uBPDw’s patterns of behavior, and some of the patterns do not seem consistent with the disorder and suggest a person who is caring, empathetic, hard-working, and fun.  

[joshbjoshb]

Yes. A though one.

Seven years in.

Wonderful children.

Very lonely not to have a partner who I can connect with.

If it would have been only about a marriage, that would be a different story.

But I am a religious person so I believe somehow the one above designated it for me. Maybe to teach me and make me a man... . dunno.

[committed]

We're not married, but if I listened to my head, the answer would be no... . run away... . But, I'm one of those people who listens to my heart and in spite of the ups and downs, I do love him and enjoy being with him... . in between the rough times. 

[allibaba]

I'd marry my husband 1000x times over again... . not because I actually think that our relationship will work but rather because I have been cast in fire through the trials of the relationship and I am a far better person as a result of what I have been through

And between my uBPD mother and uBPD husband... . I'd take my mom because at least she isn't violent!

[amazingcharis]

Good question and people's responses have been very interesting to me.  After more than 7 years of marriage, 6 years in marriage counseling and therapy, 5 years of knowing of my uBPDh's condition, 4 years on and off this site, reading everything I can get my hands on about BPD, learning how I can improve things and putting everything I know of into practice albeit imperfectly, there has been very, very little change in our relationship.  Yes, I've learned and grown and am handling my emotions much, much better and am taking care of myself and validating my uBPDh.  I have compassion for him, I sometimes pity him, I want God's best for him, but I don't have a marriage.  I've envied those of you who have periods of time with your pwBPD where things are going fairly well for you but I haven't experienced those periods of time yet.  Like joshbjoshb, I, too, am hanging in there because I think God has a purpose in all of this for me and for my husband.  But had I known what I know now, I definitely would not have married my pwBPD.  As the years go on, I bounce back and forth between hope and hopelessness and I'm in a hopeless phase right now.  Hoping that will turn around soon.

[ColdEthyl]

Knowing what I know now, yes I would still marry my husband. He isn't just BPD. He's intelligent and thoughtful. A lifelong learner. He makes me laugh everyday, even on his bad days. I would even venture to say he has made me a better person by being stronger, thicker skinned, and teaching me tolerance and patience.

[SleepsOnSofa]

First off, let me say, I am planning on staying with my uBPDw, at least until our D6 is grown. It is and will continue to be hard. The fact that she actively resists going to a therapist (although she says she has no problem if *I* go) is very discouraging. I have very little hope that things will get better, only that I may learn to manage the situation better. I am quite sure that if I left, though, that eventually my wife's wrath would focus on my daughter, and I will not have that. If the only thing I accomplish by staying is shielding my daughter by soaking up my wife's rage episodes, then it's worth it. It's not fun, but it's worth it, for my daughter, whom I love more than anything or anyone on the planet.

That being said, if I had any inkling of how this was going to go, aside from a naive, white-knighty idea that I could love her enough to help her get over what I thought back then was just a little insecurity, I'd never have married her. BPD aside, she *is* a bright, beautiful, kind person - that's how everyone outside our families sees her anyway. But she can't or won't do anything about her emotional issues (I haven't discussed my BPD suspicions with her, although I have discussed with her that my mother's mother had problems that we are now pretty sure were undiagnosed BPD), and if she's not going to work on them, there's nothing I can do to help her.

The cost to my health, my sanity, my career, and my family has been far too great. When we married, my wife knew that I wanted and needed to move back to the southwestern city where I grew up; I was sick and tired of the east coast city where we live, and my family needed me out there to help look after very old grandparents. I would have had plenty of good career opportunities, as would she, but she flat out refused to move away from her family and her mother. Now, seven years down the road, my grandparents are gone, and my parents are now having to move - at the age of 71 - from the nice, inexpensive, warm city they've lived in for 30 years, to a cold, crowded, expensive city my dad doesn't even like to visit, just so they can be near their grandchild. We could live much better out there, in a larger home in a nicer neighborhood, and never have to shovel snow again, but my wife says she hates it there, and that her family is here - though now she is so mad at them (with justification, actually; they have their own anger management and immaturity issues) she barely speaks to them. Now I am afraid that just as my daughter turns 18 and I am free to get a divorce and move where I want to be, my parents will be here and too old to move (they'll be in their early 80s then), and I'll be stuck in this city that I hate, in a job that's stressing me out to the max, until I'm too old to move.

I think that at least part of the reason that men are more likely to say they never would have married their BPD wives has to do with children. The courts still favor mothers in deciding custody, and proving a mother is unfit or too unstable to have primary custody is tremendously difficult, especially when you're up against someone whose grasp of reality is so loose and manipulative. I'm not going to divorce my wife because I'm reasonably confident that the best possible outcome, after an ugly divorce and custody battle, would be 50/50 custody; in other words, the best I can hope to do in a custody fight is a tie. If a woman is divorcing a BPDh, it's probably not too difficult to convince a judge that the man has anger management issues, and poses a threat to the children's safety. That, coupled with the predisposition of the court to award custody primarily to the mother, means that she can probably minimize her children's exposure to their father's less appealing aspects. It would be much, much harder for me to prove to a judge that my wife's verbal aggressiveness, irrationality, insecurity, and hyper-sensitivity pose a serious threat to my daughter's healthy development, despite the fact that the threat is very, very real. Men are just in a very bad position in a divorce from a BPD, as well as in a bad position in a marriage with a BPD. Society and the courts tend to deal women all the good cards in the custody game, so it's hard not to recommend to newcomers that they walk away from the table while they still can.

[Proud_Dad]

Simple answer... . no. I love my children more than anything in this world and would lay down my life for them in a second. I will never regret having my children, its who I had them with that is the problem. I love my uBPDgf very much, but knowing then what I know now... . no, i would trun and run.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Foreverhopefull]

Yes. We`ve been together for almost 20 years.

In my case, it was love at first sight. After talking for half the night, our lives were stuck together forever. So for me not to marry him, I would need to have never met him.

I would however find a way to have him meet a therapist faster and try to skip the violence that brought him to seek help.

My life with him as been a constant learning curve, filled with moments that tested my faith and my love for him, but I have also many many moments of pure joy, love and passion with him.

He`s on a good path to a better life right now (by better life I mean: a better understanding of what goes on in his head, a better control of his emotions, better reactions to his darker moments, etc.), I have a better life too, life in general is more often than not happy for us.

[Perez]

Very difficult question.  Funny because my BPD wife has told me more than a few times that she would not marry me if she had it to do over again, that I have changed and was not the man she married.  Wow, is that hard to take.

She has asked me the same question and I have never taken the bait.

I am going to side ever so slightly on yes, we have some wonderful children, my faith has grown enormously, I am stronger in many ways, yet need to shed so many co-dependent attitudes.  This is my cross.

[PaulaJeanne]

Yes, tough question. Every marriage has problems. I think if I had it to do over again, I probably wouldn't. One of the things I would do is vet the family. I should never have married into a family with mental illness all over it. It really wasn't logical to bring children into such a family. I love my wonderful children, but they all have anxiety disorders, and my youngest is diagnosed BPD.

Now I see the cycle. My daughters are all with partners (all male) who have baggage. One partner has a deadbeat, gay, alcoholic father who has been absent from the family since his children were toddlers. The middle one and his father both strike me as "sexual-orientation is ambiguous". My youngest BPD is with a guy who was adopted by a nice enough woman who's a hoarder who is divorced from the adoptive father (a registered sex offender), and whose biological mother was a crack addict who committed suicide.

I think I would vote in favor of selective breeding

[Tayto]

Im fascinated by this site, I came on to find others with BPD but in my perspective it seems like a site that just outlines the negitive side of BPD and how people can rant about their spouses.

Im married to a wonderful woman, I have BPD and yes over the years I gave my wife some hard times, I know plenty of non BPD'S that gave their wifes hell.

because of my BPD I run my own business,  I can make decisions without remorse as I can shut my emotions off.over the years ive employed and 4 people.  Ive giving over 20,000 to charity.

I asked my wife this question as its for non BPD'S,  her reply was.

im caring, understanding,  honest and thoughtful towards others, we have a beautiful home a d we are not in need for money because of my hard work. She knows and feels safe that I will have her back.

I would not marry anyone but my wife as she gets me,

She once quoted my mother who asked her 12years ago to leave me, her reply was

"You dont see what I see, but one day you will and you will see your true son"

today my mother is proud of me as I no longer have the traits of BPD.

[Mazda]

Im fascinated by this site, I came on to find others with BPD but in my perspective it seems like a site that just outlines the negitive side of BPD and how people can rant about their spouses.

Im married to a wonderful woman, I have BPD and yes over the years I gave my wife some hard times, I know plenty of non BPD'S that gave their wifes hell.

because of my BPD I run my own business,  I can make decisions without remorse as I can shut my emotions off.over the years ive employed and 4 people.  Ive giving over 20,000 to charity.

I asked my wife this question as its for non BPD'S,  her reply was.

im caring, understanding,  honest and thoughtful towards others, we have a beautiful home a d we are not in need for money because of my hard work. She knows and feels safe that I will have her back.

I would not marry anyone but my wife as she gets me,

She once quoted my mother who asked her 12years ago to leave me, her reply was

"You dont see what I see, but one day you will and you will see your true son"

today my mother is proud of me as I no longer have the traits of BPD.

Keezie1, congratulations on leading a better life, despite your illness.  Please understand that BPD is a spectrum, each person is individual and so the fact that you are able to have a happy marriage and make your mother proud does not mean that every person with BPD can do the same.  I say this as a sufferer of a mental illness myself.  I have bipolar and believe I am capable of having a normal life with moods that can be contained with proper treatment, however, there are a lot of people out there with bipolar who wouldn't be able to say the same as their illness is unique to them and they may not have the same resources or willingness to accept help from resources that I do. 

Also, BPD affects interpersonal relationships.  This site is not a BPD bashing site.  If that was the case then there would not be a staying board, there would only be a leaving board.  It caters for all stages of a relationship and all types of interpersonal relationships.  Relationships have two people (or more) involved.  Understanding that BPD causes a lot of pain to loved ones, as I am sure you are aware, will help you see that we also should be able to support one another.  Frankly, I don't come here to BPD bash.  I come here to speak to others who have had similar experiences, similar feelings and are able to understand what I have been through.  I try to learn from others to make sense of a lot of painful things that happened to me.  I would not get offended by a site which supports loved ones of bipolar, because I understand that my disorder also affects my loved ones, and nowhere near the degree that BPD does.  I also think saying that nons also have marriage issues grossly does a disservice to the experiences we have all had.  The truth is, the majority of nons do not mistreat their partners, whereas the opposite is true of those with BPD.

Once again, congratulations on your progress so far. 

[Turkish]

 to echo what others have said,  I'd never give up our wonderful kids.  my situation is similar to maxen's.  she ended it  by stopping the mirroring of me and mirrored basically a  kid,  immature even for his early 20s  age.  the lying,  cheating in the end, I  think this would have been inevitable.  even but for that,  always a  loadedr/s.  leaving aside the bad things at the end, I  could deal with her depression.  but the constant WoE?  Even knowing what I  now know to make things better.  no, I  don't want a r/s  with a  child who also had  queen tendencies.  if she were diagnosed and in treatment, I  would have loved her enough to stay and work with her and on myself to make it better.  in the end,  she's made the choice for me.  no recycles,  even though I  expect one some time after she moves out.

[findingmyselfagain]

I didn't marry either because she painted me black after (first visible sign) our wedding shower. I was in love and would have stuck around for counseling, but she never even gave us a chance. Somewhere deep in her heart I think she knew how terrible she is in relationships and knew that she would really hurt.

In hindsight, I think I would still have give a r/s a chance with her, even knowing what I know now. I would've pushed for counseling from the beginning. She had only been divorced a month when we started dating, and it was her second divorce at a young age. Those should have been some major red flags, and I remember being pretty concerned but I charged ahead anyway. Anytime I asked about counseling she would say that we talked about everything. I wish I had recognized just how insecure/who she really was.

But the question I have to ask myself is why would I want to love someone so difficult? I've become comfortable with women who are relatively drama-free. I'm not so sure I would go back for another round with her, but my boundaries are definitely much stronger than they were. I would have handled the relationship much differently. My guess is the relationship may have ended even sooner, but it may have also grown stronger. Who knows?

[Turkish]

But the question I have to ask myself is why would I want to love someone so difficult?

Exactly. And a huge reason we got into these relationships in the first place.that is squarely on us.

[joethemechanic]

it seems like a site that just outlines the negitive side of BPD and how people can rant about their spouses.

Yeah I picked up on that vib a bit too, and I'm a non. But then again, you "BPDs" are a bit "quirky" at times, kinda like flying a *Beechcraft Bonanza is a little quirky

I'm not married to my BPDgf, but we have been on and off for 30 years and I gave her a ring a couple of months back. So I guess my answer would have to be "Yes".



* V tailed doctor killer

[Tayto]

One thing is for sure we are far from boring

[PaulaJeanne]

Keezie who is BPD doesnt really belong on this site. We're not here to rant about our SO's, we are here for support. We all agree there are many good things about our pwBPDs but BPDs have issues that make them difficult to deal with. We aren't here to defend the reactions we have to the challenges we face/ We are here to bond with others who face the same challenges.

You cant spin BPD into a good thing. It's not good for the sufferer nor is it good for the significant other. We'd all be much better off if no one was mentally ill.

Kudo's for those of us trying to improve our relationship with a borderline partner. For those of us who are trying to heal & get over it... best to you all. Life shouldn't be this hard.

[Tayto]

Paula, I never said anyone on this site was boring,  people that deal with people with BPD are never bored.

im not trying to defend anyone, im giving my experiences with BPD as ive seen them.i dint for one moment underestimate the suffering anyone goes through nor is it my intentions to belittle anyones experience of an abusive partner.im here to share my experiences and how I overcame BPD because I know not everyone gets over it.

out of a class of 12 people,  im the only one signed off. Out of them 12, I experienced the most abuse. The reason im fascinated about this is, its nothing to do with how much abuse a BPD got as a child but there outlook at it. I see this as something that I don't need or want,  in Ireland you can go on state benifit for life with this condition. I work full time. Life is a choice as I see it, yes its hard and at times you would wish it was all over . But these are the cards that are dealt.

[Edelweiss]

I have thought about this hypothetical many, many times. I nearly always conclude, very solidly, that I would NOT marry her, if I could do it all over again. Have there been good times--even great times? Sure. But the bad has been SO BAD, WAY too frequently and for WAY too long. I am a strong person emotionally and have become even stronger because of all of this, but I still do not like the journey one bit. Though I am capable of continuing, sometimes I am not sure I want to continue to subject myself to it--just tired of it all. No matter how much I learn or how well I deploy the tools I learn, the outcomes are never certain and the best that can ever be hoped for is a tenuous, uneasy peace (from her side--I could hit the reset button immediately and forgive and move past it all, if she would/could).

So, whether advising my past self or someone else, today I'd say run far and fast. Don't look back.

[slimmiller]

Unequivocal and absolutely NOT.

Yes I have three lovely and beautiful children as a result of it and also many more years of Hell and trying to raise them because of it (BPD). If I didnt have them with her, I would have had them with a healthy person that is capable of being a mother and giving them saftey instead of being an emotional terrorist to them half the time.

I am glad what I have become over the last few years but I would have to be a sadist to my own emotions to even consider doing it again or in the first place had I known  . The thought of consciously repeating it almost makes me ill

[allibaba]

I'd marry my husband 1000x times over again... . not because I actually think that our relationship will work but rather because I have been cast in fire through the trials of the relationship and I am a far better person as a result of what I have been through

And between my uBPD mother and uBPD husband... . I'd take my mom because at least she isn't violent!

3 months later I am starting a divorce and interestingly enough - have the exact same answer.  Would not trade this experience for anything because I became who I am today (a much better person than the spineless, codependent woman that my uBPD husband found) as a result of my experience with him (and also because of the invaluable advice, guidance, and direction on these boards).  Essentially I grew up... . and I got a beautiful, wonderful child in the process

[lemon flower]

I can't answer this one personally since I'm on the leaving boards, but I'd like to quote a (very good) psychiatrist who's an authority on BPD in my country

when the audience asked him if r/s with BP's can be stable and fulfilling his answer was : "no doubt, I know loads of BP's who have a good mariage, happy kids and a job.

key is THERAPY (not only for the BP but also for the family), external support and understanding, and mutual LOVE. "

I know, this is a therapist speaking on his business, but I believe him, there are thousands and thousands persons with BPD all over the world, they couldn't possibly all be in a bad marriage 

to my point of view, I think you have to meet the right person on the right time, when you meet a BPD who is allready in a mindset where he wants to learn and face his problems (or when you can be the one to guide him/her gently on that path) you have a much bigger chance on a happy marriage.

from the NON' s part is the same; if you are a mature, "wise" and empathic person who has gained enough insight in your own psychology, you'd probably set boundaries from the start and avoid things to escalate and as such the worst damage may never occur

in my ideal world there would be much more understanding, education and openness around psychiatric diseases, that would make such a difference... .  

[guitarguy09]

I can't answer this one personally since I'm on the leaving boards, but I'd like to quote a (very good) psychiatrist who's an authority on BPD in my country

when the audience asked him if r/s with BP's can be stable and fulfilling his answer was : "no doubt, I know loads of BP's who have a good mariage, happy kids and a job.

key is THERAPY (not only for the BP but also for the family), external support and understanding, and mutual LOVE. "

I know, this is a therapist speaking on his business, but I believe him, there are thousands and thousands persons with BPD all over the world, they couldn't possibly all be in a bad marriage 

to my point of view, I think you have to meet the right person on the right time, when you meet a BPD who is allready in a mindset where he wants to learn and face his problems (or when you can be the one to guide him/her gently on that path) you have a much bigger chance on a happy marriage.

from the NON' s part is the same; if you are a mature, "wise" and empathic person who has gained enough insight in your own psychology, you'd probably set boundaries from the start and avoid things to escalate and as such the worst damage may never occur

in my ideal world there would be much more understanding, education and openness around psychiatric diseases, that would make such a difference... .  

It really does make such a difference. My wife's family is always supportive of her and takes the time to try and sympathize with her issues and make up when things aren't going well. Subsequently, we have a great relationship on that side. Things are very strained on my family's side as they kind of expect certain behavior and when they don't get it, they let her know about it loud and clear. And their threshold for unacceptable behavior is pretty low compared to really what it should be.

[formflier]

Yes... . if I had paid any attention to the family... . I would have seen warning signs.  And honestly... if I could have listened more to my uBPDw talk about her family... it would have been more obvious.

That being said... . I'm still a yes... . I would do it again... . I will explain more later

Yes, tough question. Every marriage has problems. I think if I had it to do over again, I probably wouldn't. One of the things I would do is vet the family. I should never have married into a family with mental illness all over it. It really wasn't logical to bring children into such a family. I love my wonderful children, but they all have anxiety disorders, and my youngest is diagnosed BPD.

Now I see the cycle. My daughters are all with partners (all male) who have baggage. One partner has a deadbeat, gay, alcoholic father who has been absent from the family since his children were toddlers. The middle one and his father both strike me as "sexual-orientation is ambiguous". My youngest BPD is with a guy who was adopted by a nice enough woman who's a hoarder who is divorced from the adoptive father (a registered sex offender), and whose biological mother was a crack addict who committed suicide.

I think I would vote in favor of selective breeding

[going places]

NOPE.

Not a chance.

I would have had my 3 kids with a healthy, loving, true man instead.

[Fanie]

I think I will BUT will do things very differently

I feel I have at least a "small part" in escalating her disease

(no speaking as a codependent)

[Fanie]

One thing is for sure we are far from boring

[mace17]

I am going to have to say no.  I think I would have been better off staying single and working on just being me.  I think I could have been a much better mother to my son too had I not married his father.  I wanted him to have a stable family, but by marrying his father I think it has made both our lives more unstable.  But I still want him to have a stable family, so I will keep trying.

[woodsposse]

But on the other hand, if it were not for my uBPDw and all that I've now been through, I likely would not have grown and worked on myself to the point where I can now, in hindsight, say that I would not do it again.  Although it was not her intention, I owe her a thanks (of sorts) for doing her part to set up the perfect storm that finally shook me into figuring out that it is my right and in my control to become who I want to be.  I hope that's some of my old codependency melting away.

 

This is a very interesting thread.  I haven't had an opportunity to read all of it - but I do like the above quote, as it sums up wonderfully what I would have probably thought.

Personality Disorders aside, when I met my (now) ex-wife twenty years ago, I did connect with her in a way which kept us in a very dysfunctional state for years.  But the connection was real, and strong, and I loved it - but it did force a lot of inner workings of myself (and her) to the forefront and as we grew and evolved we couldn't handle it "properly" - and things ruptured beyond repair.

Would I do it again?  Certainly not.

If I met and connected with someone new who just happened to have some of the same dynamics as she had would I voluntarily walk into it?  I dunno.  Maybe.  Maybe I would think that now that I know what I know I'm in a better place to handle those types of situations/relationships.

Then again, maybe not.

I sometimes still miss my ex-wife like crazy - I miss what we had (when it was good and great) and I miss the opportunity to "fix" what could have been "fixed" had I known what we were really dealling with.  But because we did with each other what we did - there is no way to go back and change it... . so going back to do it all over again would just mean the same things would happen - and I"m not having any part of that.

I owe me too much... . and her as well.  I just want to be happy (whatever that means).

[Boss302]

Well, if we're talking about alternative timelines, ala Star Trek... . when you change the past, you don't always anticipate the "ripple effects". In my case, if I could go back to 1992 and talk to myself back then, after the inevitable conversation about how dashing and handsome I've become in my old age (and some handy stock and Super Bowl betting tips), perhaps I wouldn't have gone forward with my BPDx. That would have meant being spared a lot of pain, but it'd also have meant my two children would never have existed. It'd also have meant never meeting my significant other, who I love very, very much.

So, my BPDx caused me a lot of pain, but have things worked out OK? Yes, they have.

Now, if I COULD I'd probably have left her five or six years before I did (if I'd been smart, I'd have left her while she still had a steady job - that would have saved me a LOT of alimony, but oh well... . ).

But would I ever marry or be involved with another borderline? God, no. I've learned that lesson.

[Turkish]

I miss the opportunity to "fix" what could have been "fixed" had I known what we were really dealling with.

Me, too. It's been a few months since I chimed in on this thread, which was just days before she moved out. I still say "no" but with our beautiful kids, the question kind of only makes sense as a hypothetical, not "if you had a real time machine, would you go back and get with her again," which due to our kids, I couldn't answer.

[Boss302]

NOPE.

Not a chance.

I would have had my 3 kids with a healthy, loving, true man instead.

Right, but you wouldn't have had the three kids you have now. Just a thought.

[wilsonian]

WOW what a question... . I often think and remember what a normal relationship was(being married 20 yrs first time)... do I miss normal... YES!... . but the times when we are just being us without chaos... rages... verbal abuse... . panic attacks... . I would marry her again because through it all we have a soul connection I believe... . Would it have been nice to have a heads up about all this before we were married... HECK YA... . but she chose to keep it from me until it had to come to surface... that would be only thing I would change on my wish list... .

[formflier]

I'm back for more on this one.  And I want to echo a lot of what others have said.  The good times were great.  They really were.  Lately... . more bad than good.  Lots of work going on there... . I'm hopeful. 

The crux of the question for me and all the others is the kids.  I can't give up any of them... . so I've got to say yes.

If one of my kids said I want to marry a BPD... I would try to talk them out of it.  If they were in treatment or working on it... maybe.

That is from the point of view of what I want for my kids.

So... . in an odd way I've tried to answer the question both ways. 

Strictly from a relationship point of view... . I don't ever think I could advise someone to enter into a rs with untreated BPD. 

Good thread... . keep this going

WOW what a question... . I often think and remember what a normal relationship was(being married 20 yrs first time)... do I miss normal... YES!... . but the times when we are just being us without chaos... rages... verbal abuse... . panic attacks... . I would marry her again because through it all we have a soul connection I believe... . Would it have been nice to have a heads up about all this before we were married... HECK YA... . but she chose to keep it from me until it had to come to surface... that would be only thing I would change on my wish list... .

[Boss302]

WOW what a question... . I often think and remember what a normal relationship was(being married 20 yrs first time)... do I miss normal... YES!... . but the times when we are just being us without chaos... rages... verbal abuse... . panic attacks... . I would marry her again because through it all we have a soul connection I believe... . Would it have been nice to have a heads up about all this before we were married... HECK YA... . but she chose to keep it from me until it had to come to surface... that would be only thing I would change on my wish list... .

In my case, I had clues about my BPDx from the start, but they were mild. Her behaviors REALLY came out later in the marriage. By then... . too late.

[wilsonian]

Not sure where my post went ... maybe I was to honest but yes I would do it again just wish I had a heads up about the diagnosis prior to the marriage...

[woodsposse]

 

As far as the whole "kid thing"... . I finally had to be really honest with myself.

If I could go back in time and stop myself from getting with the bio-mom of my kids even knowing that my kids (in their current form) wouldn't exist - I would still stop myself.

I deserved much better than that r/s. 

My children deserved much more than what she brought to the table... . and how she still is messed up in the head and negativly affected their lives.

I would much rather have them be wholler and happier even if it means they are totally different people now.

[upsidedown_world]

Nope.  Not at this stage I wouldn't.  She was very highly functioning when we got married.  It all went to hell after the birth of our second daughter.  **That doesn't preclude the fact that I may have a different take 6 months down the road if the current therapy actually pans out.  I think many of us spend a lot of time hoping for a brighter future.

Kids were the tipping point.  Without them, I'd be gone a long time ago.

[slimmiller]

As far as the whole "kid thing"... . I finally had to be really honest with myself.

If I could go back in time and stop myself from getting with the bio-mom of my kids even knowing that my kids (in their current form) wouldn't exist - I would still stop myself.

I deserved much better than that r/s. 

My children deserved much more than what she brought to the table... . and how she still is messed up in the head and negativly affected their lives.

I would much rather have them be wholler and happier even if it means they are totally different people now.

EXACTLY. I could not have said it better myself.

I love myself way too much now to ever dream of repeating the Hell that ensued by ever meeting her. Sure there was a good and romantic time at first but I would still never consciously repeat it. I deserve so much better.

I spent most of my life now trying to protect my children from the monster she has become (emotionally etc) and I am sure they too would be thankful if I had chose someone else to have them with. I dont believe in the 'if we hadnt met, we would not have the kids' theory. I would still have them, just with someone mentally healthy.

The mindset that its somehow all worth it in the end is the exact same mindset that got us into these relationships in the first place...

But I also think justifying us getting into the relationship in the first place kind of takes the pressure off and we dont have to own the fact that we made a less then perfect choice and its kind of the easy way out

[Boss302]

Nope.  Not at this stage I wouldn't.  She was very highly functioning when we got married.  It all went to hell after the birth of our second daughter.  **That doesn't preclude the fact that I may have a different take 6 months down the road if the current therapy actually pans out.  I think many of us spend a lot of time hoping for a brighter future.

Kids were the tipping point.  Without them, I'd be gone a long time ago.

I want you to consider something: her behavior affects the kids too, and it probably affects your ability to effectively parent them. I know. Caring for a BPD drains the caretaker emotionally, and often leaves little "room" for the kids.

I know you're saying you're staying "for their sake," but sometimes it makes sense to leave "for their sake" too. In my case, I was able to create a much more stable household for the kids without my BPDx, and without BPDx, I have a lot more emotional "bandwidth," so to speak, so I'm able to be a better dad to them than I was before the divorce. We're ALL far better off now.

I know you're undecided, and I think the wait and see attitude makes sense, but keep all this in mind as you watch your wife's progress in therapy. If you don't see improvements, then you may have some very tough decisions to make.

Keep a close eye on her... . and make sure you're taking care of yourself and the kids through all this. Make sure your connection with them remains strong. They need that.

[HopefulDad]

No.  Life's too short to voluntarily jump into a relationship with someone suffering a PD.  I can care for her deeply and hope the best for her, but marry?  Nah.

But since I *am* married, I am doing what I can to see if the marriage can be salvaged.  But it's not trending in a positive direction.

[goldylamont]

I want you to consider something: her behavior affects the kids too, and it probably affects your ability to effectively parent them. I know. Caring for a BPD drains the caretaker emotionally, and often leaves little "room" for the kids.

I know you're saying you're staying "for their sake," but sometimes it makes sense to leave "for their sake" too. In my case, I was able to create a much more stable household for the kids without my BPDx, and without BPDx, I have a lot more emotional "bandwidth," so to speak, so I'm able to be a better dad to them than I was before the divorce. We're ALL far better off now.

I know you're undecided, and I think the wait and see attitude makes sense, but keep all this in mind as you watch your wife's progress in therapy. If you don't see improvements, then you may have some very tough decisions to make.

Keep a close eye on her... . and make sure you're taking care of yourself and the kids through all this. Make sure your connection with them remains strong. They need that.

Wow. This is something I've felt but I never speak on as I never had children involved so didn't want to comment on this dynamic.

Upsidedown consider what Boss is saying. After finding what BPD is I found 2 friends that were close to someone diagnosed. One friend is the daughter of a mother wBPD. She's in her thirties now and still suffers, working with a therapist because of the emotional turmoil growing up around her BPD mom. They don't speak anymore at all at the moment, in fact I think only one sibling in their family still even communicates with the mom. My friend does love her dad. But she told me that even though he's the nicest man, that she had to work through a lot of anger towards him as in her eyes he stood by and didn't protect her when she was younger from their mom. After decades of marriage and after all the kids moved out, her dad finally does have another SO but she says she's demanding and controlling just like her mom--so the father also has to bear some responsibility for his choices as well. Although he is kind hearted. There are some people here with parents that have BPD, perhaps it would be good to get their input on whether they would've wanted their parents to stay together or not. Can give some insights on choices you make now.

[yeeter]

No.

But I say this without animosity.  And without resent.  Just a statement of fact.

I also responded thinking, to some degree, not a useful question to even ponder (because the past is past).  But then realized, that being able to answer it so easily, and simply, and without emotion, is an indication of acceptance and healing. 

Now what I would 'like' to think is that, by having grown and learned new skills and developed as a person, that by simply turning back the clock and reliving it, I would be more savvy at managing and dealing with the dynamics that got me into the relationship and I would make different choices. 

[formflier]

  My friend does love her dad. But she told me that even though he's the nicest man, that she had to work through a lot of anger towards him as in her eyes he stood by and didn't protect her when she was younger from their mom. 

This was one of the things that I was thinking through as I decided  to act to get corporal punishment out of my house.  If my kids see me standing by... . and letting uBPDw continue what I consider to be abusive punishment... . then they are right to think that I approve... . or at least won't stop it.

While not all of them may agree with the stand that I took... . they all know Daddy is against what Mommy is doing and will take a stand.

[ydrys017]

Fascinating question and one that I ponder from time to time. 

Knowing what I know now, no, I do not think I would do it again.  The effects of the disorder are damaging and pervasive in my life and in the lives of our children (who I would never wish out of existence, for the record).  Being married to someone with BPD has strengthened me in many ways and taught me many lessons I would not have learned otherwise, and I am grateful for that.  And I'm committed to staying. 

It's a difficult existence though... . not the dream life that I could have without the disorder present.  I really think that my wife, minus the disorder, would be the perfect spouse.

X2

[hergestridge]

I would have said no. And in a way actually said no, but she didn't care much. I said no to kids and marriage so many times. Threats of leaving, threats of suicide if she didn't get her will. Threats never carried out... . six months later the same proposals again. Eventually I gave in because I couldn't stand the tortute.

And leaving her wasn't on the map because it was obvious that I would have to throw her out, and it doesn't work like that with her. She would turn that into a discussion that I would have to "win" in order to throw her out, and she would end up staying. A couple of break-up attempts have just ended with her saying "No fuc*ing way!" and then she will pretend like it never happened.

[earthgirl]

No.

[Theo41]

No. The good , and there's lots of that, has been overridden by the bad. In many respects I feel like the custodian of a hateful angry anxious mental patient. The kids suffered and were damaged by her  more than I realized. For that reason alone I would not do it again.Theo

[waverider]

This thread has now been locked as it has reached its limit of 4 pages.

If there are any aspects you wish to explore further please feel free to begin a new related thread

Thanks everyone for your participation

Waverider